What kind of churches do you all go to?

[mrsocko]

You can't believe in UR and those statements as stated above and be consistent. They are a contradiction in terms.Replace the words "eternal" and "everlasting" with their proper translation and you might be getting somewhere.

Sorry, I use the proper translations of eternal and everlasting when I read passages like that, with out thinking that there are people out there who would be offended. So sorry for being "inconstistent".

[Doc]

You can't believe in UR and those statements as stated above and be consistent. They are a contradiction in terms.Replace the words "eternal" and "everlasting" with their proper translation and you might be getting somewhere.

Sorry, I use the proper translations of eternal and everlasting when I read passages like that, with out thinking that there are people out there who would be offended. So sorry for being "inconstistent".

Understood.

[MacPherson]

In my personal experience the purpose of church is to be taught and to fellowship. Paul never taught UR specifically in his epistles. I would waste away pretty quickly on an all milk diet of God is love, God is love, God is love... As Paul teaches; to some God gives gifs of miracles, healing and prophecy. There are at least 14 gifts listed by Paul. I myself do not have the gift of miracles or prophesy or physical healing, so I wouldn't want to be taught about those three day in and day out.

You'd want to be taught about them if you realized that faith to activate them, just like faith for the new birth comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. 

What I wanted to express was, I don't want to see one to thee particular gifts highlighted, and the rest basically ignored. A lot of people are taught if they don't manifest a particular gift, they're not right with God one way or another. But not everyone is given the same exact gifts. To some the gift of tongues. To some the gift of healing etc. Just because someone hasn't been given one of the top five most popular gifts, doesn't mean that person has fallen short in any way. Or that that person is a lesser disciple. God gives us these gifts to enable us to serve Him, in whatever capacity He desires us to serve Him. Some people look to spiritual gifts as some badge of personal glory. "Look what I can do!" "Look at what God gave me because I earned it." It is not about us, it's about Him and Him alone.

As far as material gifts go; if God gave me a Rolls Royce, I hope I'd sell it and give the money to the poor. Why in Christ's name would I seek earthly riches of any kind to indulge in?
being a disciple of Christ is a hard knocks life. The reward is in seeing it through to the end. I'd much rather rough it, than be pampered. I'd rather enter Paradise as a man crawling through the desert to get to an oasis.

I guess I'm seeing too much (not here, just all over) "God want's you happy and pampered on earth" "Blab it and grab it!" "God wants to give you worldly goodies." "It's all about what you can score through faith". "It's all about the special powers God will give you, to look wonderful and feel wonderful." *Sparkle, sparkle, bling, bling*

Speaking of bling, whatcha all think of the ring I ordred? I hope it arrives today, because today is my birthday. 
:clock:

[martincisneros]

What I meant is, I don't want to see one to thee particular gifts highlighted, and the rest basically ignored. A lot of people are taught if they don't manifest a particular gift, they're not right with God one way or another. But not everyone is given the same exact gifts. To some the gift of tongues. To some the gift of healing etc. Just because someone hasn't been given one of the top five most popular gifts, doesn't mean that person has fallen short in any way. Or that that person is a lesser disciple. God gives us these gifts to enable us to serve Him, in whatever capacity He desires us to serve Him.

Exactly, just because someone hasn't had a particular grace manifested yet, doesn't mean they never will because of 1Corinthians 14:1 and 2Corinthians 8:7 and the promise of Ephesians 2 that His graces in our lives will continue to unfold over many ages.

As far as material gifts go; if God gave me a Rolls Royce, I hope I'd sell it and give the money to the poor. Why in Christ's name would I seek earthly riches of any kind to indulge in?

Exactly, God gives us richly all things to enjoy according to 1Timothy 6, but not for our licentiousness as is dealt with in Ephesians 4.  Working all manner of uncleanness with greediness which elsewhere is called idolatry would be completely wrong.  But if God gave you a Rolls Royce, I'd hope you'd seek Him about what to do with it 'cause giving to the poor isn't His only agenda with things.  He may want you to keep it, because evidently from what you're telling me, it would humble you for Daddy to tell you to do so because of some of the heat you might take for it and because of your own thoughts about things.  Or He may want it sown into your pastor's life, or invested in some other good cause. 

Our lives are about conformity with the image of Christ and being willing and obedient to Him in all things, and when we are, He promises we'll eat the good of the land.  But He does tell us to put a knife to our throats if we're given to gluttony and St. Paul teaches having a moderate attitude about all things and not being brought under the power of anything.  But through the sanctifying work of His Spirit we can know both how to be abased and how to abound; not that sometimes we'd be abased and sometimes we'd abound -- but that in all things we'd know how to, because we were prepared for any/every good work according to 2Timothy 2 and 2Corinthians 9. 

If anything from a particular item of clothing to what's in our wallets to our stereos ever became clingy to our flesh nature and we were constantly talking about loving it, then it would be time to seek Him about how it could best serve Him as a seed, up to and including perhaps a seed sown to someone else.  We've got degrees in our minds about how much is too much, but He simply said that if you've got two shirts and are about to go to Gehenna because you're loving those more than people, then cut them off!  We can have things but things aren't to ever have us.  We can appreciate God's blessings, but everything in our lives should be regarded as a seed that He can call upon any time He "hath need of it."  Always be careful about ever criticizing what might honestly be someone else's hundredfold just because you don't know the neat story of grace behind this or that and what God's done through that in conforming them a little more to Himself.

[ducktapehero]

I presently go to a Southern Baptist church but as a new Universalist this could pose a problem.  :laughing7: They like their hell and brimstone. Although I'll probably still go occasionally as we have friends there and my son(now 4) is, despite the dozens of kids in the children's class, "the official Church kid". Most of the other kids are kids who parents are just using us for free baby sitting and money. They're all treated good but they don't get spoiled like mine.

The other kids don't get the hugs and kisses like mine does. And despite what they teach there are good Christian people out there. It's a little country church in the Ozarks. Most of the people don't have much money and plenty come to church with dirt from the fields still on their clothes but most would do anything for you.

[Nathan]

I agree with ya ducktape, this is where letting relationship supercede doctrine applies.  We shouldn't go to church to reinforce a doctrine, but to strengthen relationships.  Many churches have messed up the priority . . .they're all supportive of the relationships . .so long as those having the relationships are willing to accept all of the doctrines.

[MacPherson]

I agree with ya ducktape, this is where letting relationship supercede doctrine applies.  We shouldn't go to church to reinforce a doctrine, but to strengthen relationships.  Many churches have messed up the priority . . .they're all supportive of the relationships . .so long as those having the relationships are willing to accept all of the doctrines.

Yes, the teaching we receive that focuses on our relationship with Christ, how to serve Him, how to overcome this world and our own flesh. How bear good fruit and walk victoriously, on the straight and narrow path along with a fellowship of building each other up, is of primary importance. If they teach hell, so what? They're not trying to strike fear into the hearts of the saved, telling them they have one foot in hell and the other foot on a banana peel, and they better do this or that to stay saved. And I myself do believe in hell. I believe in a place of suffering for the wicked. A place of anguish and testing, that I wouldn't want anyone to have to endure. I just don't think overall scripture and better translation supports eternal torture.

[legoman]

With regard to the OP:  Currently I'm going to a Roman Catholic church.  Not because I am RC myself, but because my wife is.

Its interesting, they rarely speak about hell - I'm not sure what the official Vatican position is now because I believe it changed recently.

Used to be "purgatory" now there's this "limbo" thing, don't know what that means for the unbelievers though.

Anyone have a good RC link so I can check what I'm supposed to believe?  :winkgrin:

There are some nice people there though, none of them are hell & brimstone types.  But its more for fellowship and a "social club" atmosphere - I haven't shared UR there with anyone except my wife.

[Cardinal]

Anyone have a good RC link so I can check what I'm supposed to believe?  :winkgrin:

:cloud9: rofl..... :grin:

[jabcat]

Wife's mother had surgery (doing well) so she didn't "go to church" Sunday, so I didn't go either, as I go with her for her sake.  Spent time with the Lord, praying, reading, but I told a friend today "the church didn't have to go to the building" Sunday morning.  :icon_joker:

[legoman]

Anyone have a good RC link so I can check what I'm supposed to believe?  :winkgrin:

:cloud9: rofl..... :grin:

Actually I was serious, as it seems the RC church may not really believe in hell anymore.  So is there an official link with RC doctrine somewhere?

I just watched Religulous too (that's a whole another thread I could start), and there's a really funny yet interesting part where Bill interviews a "higher up" in the Catholic Church.

Peace...

[sparrow]

Wife's mother had surgery (doing well) so she didn't "go to church" Sunday, so I didn't go either, as I go with her for her sake.  Spent time with the Lord, praying, reading, but I told a friend today "the church didn't have to go to the building" Sunday morning.  :icon_joker:

:laughing7:

glad your mother-in-law is doing well.

:HeartThrob:

[Cardinal]

Anyone have a good RC link so I can check what I'm supposed to believe?  :winkgrin:

:cloud9: rofl..... :grin:

Actually I was serious, as it seems the RC church may not really believe in hell anymore.  So is there an official link with RC doctrine somewhere?

I just watched Religulous too (that's a whole another thread I could start), and there's a really funny yet interesting part where Bill interviews a "higher up" in the Catholic Church.
Peace...

:cloud9: Oops  :mblush: My bad. I thought you were being funny.....and I have no idea where that site would be. Sorry (about both)  :mblush: Blessings...

[reFORMer]

The new Catechism is online.  info.com should be able to find it.

[jabcat]

Thanks Sparrow...I posted more about this here, (http://www.tentmaker.org/forum/index.php?topic=5969.msg61782#msg61782) please see.

And Card.  I thought what you said was funny.  Oops.   :laughing7:

[martincisneros]

Current Pope seems a stickler for Augustine's tradition in everything I've heard from him except one time, so I haven't had the same degree of interest in him that I had for the previous Pope.  Previous Pope was more radically blantantly UR and Pentecostal, to the point of having somewhat regular dialogue with many well known leaders and television personalities in Pentecostal and Charismatic circles.  I loved an evening that I spent reading his sermons online a long time ago.  Seemed Postmill as well.  Not sure if the Vatican's website still makes that stuff available to the public.  Some people never take stuff down from their website, while others phase it out with newer stuff.  I haven't been to the website in a while, but it should be easy to find via google.

[WhiteWings]

Somewhere on the Vatican site is an archive with the speeches of many popes.

The current one is about real fire.
I'm not sure the previous one was UR Martin.
He didn't promote eternal fire but eternal seperation from God.
"His" eternal hell was loosing the link with God forever.

[legoman]

Anyone have a good RC link so I can check what I'm supposed to believe?  :winkgrin:

:cloud9: rofl..... :grin:

Actually I was serious, as it seems the RC church may not really believe in hell anymore.  So is there an official link with RC doctrine somewhere?

I just watched Religulous too (that's a whole another thread I could start), and there's a really funny yet interesting part where Bill interviews a "higher up" in the Catholic Church.
Peace...

:cloud9: Oops  :mblush: My bad. I thought you were being funny.....and I have no idea where that site would be. Sorry (about both)  :mblush: Blessings...

No problem, actually it was one of those joking yet serious questions where I really wanted an answer  :winkgrin:

I figured the kind and knowledgeable folks here would save me a few google searches...

[jabcat]

"His" eternal hell was loosing the link with God forever.

I believe that was Billy Graham's line at one time as well, then I heard he moved toward "we really don't know/can't limit what God might do" sort of POV.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9:  You know, I have a feeling that there are a lot of  "closet" UR believing ministers out there. For the simple reason, that if you keep pressing into God, God and His character is what you find. No one has to be there to "talk" you into it.

When I was having bible studies and a few disagreeable came in, be it disagreeable to the baptism in the Spirit, no rapture, ect.,  many times I didn't feel the unction to go over the scriptures with them. I just encouraged them to keep pressing in to God, knowing what they would find if they did. It worked quite well; usually in a few months they would be back, having seen or experienced the very thing they railed at me over.

I remember one such woman well. When she came back, cracked us up because she said she was reading the bible sitting on her toilet and all of sudden she saw thru revelation of the Spirit, that there was no rapture. She said she screamed and her husband thought there was something bad wrong with her and came running.  :mblush: :mshock: :grin:

I think God has a sense of humor. We open mouth and insert foot, and He comes along and uses that foot as a giant fish hook.  :laughing7: Or at least that's the way He works with me  :mblush:   :grin:  Blessings....