It's amazing how few UR churches there are out there. We have like one or two in the Nashville area, but it's unitarian and denies the deity of Christ, so you'll be sitting next to buddhists and muslims and whatever all "worshipping" together.
Are there any independent churches that actually believe in UR and are spirit filled (believing and practicing all the giftings), yet without being a divisive type of church? My experience has seen alot of churches that are started just to try to oppose other Christians beliefs and I don't see how that's a good premise or mission statement. I don't want a church where an issue or "ism" is the focus or mission statement. We follow Christ, not isms.
I really wish there were a church that has the basic tenants of this tentmaker site. 1) God loves all people and is and will reconcile all to himself 2) He gave us His spirit to empower believers and walk in miracles, healing and prophecy 3) The scriptures are the truth about the truth, but not THE truth. (I've never seen any church with this mindset. Either you're 100% inerrant or a heretic)
Any churches out there like this?!!?
Quote from: Paul L on April 14, 2009, 08:08:26 PM
It's amazing how few UR churches there are out there. We have like one or two in the Nashville area, but it's unitarian and denies the deity of Christ, so you'll be sitting next to buddhists and muslims and whatever all "worshipping" together.
Are there any independent churches that actually believe in UR and are spirit filled (believing and practicing all the giftings), yet without being a divisive type of church? My experience has seen alot of churches that are started just to try to oppose other Christians beliefs and I don't see how that's a good premise or mission statement. I don't want a church where an issue or "ism" is the focus or mission statement. We follow Christ, not isms.
I really wish there were a church that has the basic tenants of this tentmaker site. 1) God loves all people and is and will reconcile all to himself 2) He gave us His spirit to empower believers and walk in miracles, healing and prophecy 3) The scriptures are the truth about the truth, but not THE truth. (I've never seen any church with this mindset. Either you're 100% inerrant or a heretic)
Any churches out there like this?!!?
There probably are, although they are going to be few and far between at this stage.
I attend a baptist church mainly because we've been there so long that they're family in spite of some of the silliness they believe.
Hello. God had me stop denominationalism, I go on Sunday mornings with my wife and son (Baptist), no longer a "member". Wouldn't go there at all, am compromising, and probably not to God's perfect will (in my life). Raised Assembly of God/Pentecostal/Charismatic.
I believe God has different people different places at different times. He'll lead and arrange.
God pulled me out of the church systems completely. It's been about two years now. This is my fellowship. Only he knows if I return in some way. I learn from personal study along with teachers like L.Ray Smith (bible-truths.com) and J Preston Eby and Gary Amirault. There are churches out there that teach UR through Christ, but they are very few.
Grace and Peace
Quote from: jabcat on April 15, 2009, 01:49:27 AM
I believe God has different people different places at different times. He'll lead and arrange.
I agree.
I don't attend a building church. I'll be the first to admit, I'm a strange, sensitive-ish. little loner bird. :icon_flower: (but that's not the only reason. personal reasons, I guess I'll say.)
Plus... if I heard the preacher talking about my beautiful God burning people for all eternity... I might end up throwing a hymn book at his head. :laughing7: :mshock: Did I just say that out loud??
tweet tweet.
Quote from: sparrow on April 15, 2009, 02:33:04 AM
Quote from: jabcat on April 15, 2009, 01:49:27 AM
I believe God has different people different places at different times. He'll lead and arrange.
I agree.
I don't attend a building church. I'll be the first to admit, I'm a strange, sensitive-ish. little loner bird. :icon_flower: (but that's not the only reason. personal reasons, I guess I'll say.)
Plus... if I heard the preacher talking about my beautiful God burning people for all eternity... I might end up throwing a hymn book at his head. :laughing7: :mshock: Did I just say that out loud??
tweet tweet.
:laughing7:
Fortunately, the pastor of the church I go to almost never talks about hell.
Quote from: Doc on April 15, 2009, 02:34:19 AM
Quote from: sparrow on April 15, 2009, 02:33:04 AM
Quote from: jabcat on April 15, 2009, 01:49:27 AM
I believe God has different people different places at different times. He'll lead and arrange.
I agree.
I don't attend a building church. I'll be the first to admit, I'm a strange, sensitive-ish. little loner bird. :icon_flower: (but that's not the only reason. personal reasons, I guess I'll say.)
Plus... if I heard the preacher talking about my beautiful God burning people for all eternity... I might end up throwing a hymn book at his head. :laughing7: :mshock: Did I just say that out loud??
tweet tweet.
:laughing7:
Fortunately, the pastor of the church I go to almost never talks about hell.
yeah..for his head....these bibles weigh a couple of pounds..just keep a first aid box at Hand Bud...Ya just never Know :icon_flower:
Quote from: sparrow on April 15, 2009, 02:33:04 AM
Quote from: jabcat on April 15, 2009, 01:49:27 AM
I believe God has different people different places at different times. He'll lead and arrange.
I agree.
I don't attend a building church. I'll be the first to admit, I'm a strange, sensitive-ish. little loner bird. :icon_flower: (but that's not the only reason. personal reasons, I guess I'll say.)
Plus... if I heard the preacher talking about my beautiful God burning people for all eternity... I might end up throwing a hymn book at his head. :laughing7: :mshock: Did I just say that out loud??
tweet tweet.
Sparrow has temporary lapses into a Blue Jay. Ever see one of those suckers if you mess with one of its babies?
Quote from: jabcat on April 15, 2009, 02:56:04 AM
Quote from: sparrow on April 15, 2009, 02:33:04 AM
Quote from: jabcat on April 15, 2009, 01:49:27 AM
I believe God has different people different places at different times. He'll lead and arrange.
I agree.
I don't attend a building church. I'll be the first to admit, I'm a strange, sensitive-ish. little loner bird. :icon_flower: (but that's not the only reason. personal reasons, I guess I'll say.)
Plus... if I heard the preacher talking about my beautiful God burning people for all eternity... I might end up throwing a hymn book at his head. :laughing7: :mshock: Did I just say that out loud??
tweet tweet.
Sparrow has temporary lapses into a Blue Jay. Ever see one of those suckers if you mess with one of its babies?
WO...DONT THEY JUST..... :icon_flower:
Dive for cover and QUICK bud....Swans are even worse....ya dont get within yds....and those Birds are TOUGH...eagle size or even bigger... :icon_flower:..but they look so peaceful and elegant paddling our rivers...ever get to Britain,,,BE WARNED if your out Boating.. :icon_flower:
Quote from: jabcat on April 15, 2009, 02:56:04 AM
Quote from: sparrow on April 15, 2009, 02:33:04 AM
Quote from: jabcat on April 15, 2009, 01:49:27 AM
I believe God has different people different places at different times. He'll lead and arrange.
I agree.
I don't attend a building church. I'll be the first to admit, I'm a strange, sensitive-ish. little loner bird. :icon_flower: (but that's not the only reason. personal reasons, I guess I'll say.)
Plus... if I heard the preacher talking about my beautiful God burning people for all eternity... I might end up throwing a hymn book at his head. :laughing7: :mshock: Did I just say that out loud??
tweet tweet.
Sparrow has temporary lapses into a Blue Jay. Ever see one of those suckers if you mess with one of its babies?
:thumbsup: :laughing7:
:icon_flower:
Quote from: Paul L on April 14, 2009, 08:08:26 PM
It's amazing how few UR churches there are out there. We have like one or two in the Nashville area, but it's unitarian and denies the deity of Christ, so you'll be sitting next to buddhists and muslims and whatever all "worshipping" together.
Are there any independent churches that actually believe in UR and are spirit filled (believing and practicing all the giftings), yet without being a divisive type of church? My experience has seen alot of churches that are started just to try to oppose other Christians beliefs and I don't see how that's a good premise or mission statement. I don't want a church where an issue or "ism" is the focus or mission statement. We follow Christ, not isms.
I really wish there were a church that has the basic tenants of this tentmaker site. 1) God loves all people and is and will reconcile all to himself 2) He gave us His spirit to empower believers and walk in miracles, healing and prophecy 3) The scriptures are the truth about the truth, but not THE truth. (I've never seen any church with this mindset. Either you're 100% inerrant or a heretic)
Any churches out there like this?!!?
I'm bad about not going for months at a time, but I am a part of a Charismatic Church. It's an opportunity for the healing and prophetic operations to work through me in a public setting in a little stronger way than in a lot of other places where I share 'cause they're basically a Pentecostal Church in terms of how deeply they'll fast and pray, but their emphasis is more the modern Charismatic movement on spiritual, relational, economic, and physical progress and wholeness, so the Hell issue doesn't come up very often. Quite a few people recognized me and knew my name when I first started attending there, and none of them would say from where they knew me. So, on the Hell issue, they might possibly cork it around me. I genuinely can't be sure without ordering CDs of services from when I'm not there. They've never invited me to speak there, but they've preached virtually Word for Word a couple of my emails. They love it when God has me drop 'em an insight from the Word on healing, prosperity, or the operations of the Holy Spirit and how to really let Him flow in fullness with the miraculous. The vibe I get from them is that they'd probably put me on staff within 90 days if I'd be there every week for at least one of their Sunday services. They currently have 3 Sunday services. I have a lot of God's favor there. Sometimes I walk out of there with a lot more money than went into the offering. And I think that they're detecting from that and the healing anointing on my life that the Written Word of God is growing strongly in me and they're hungry for all of God that they can get in their lives. But they've never put the pressure on. Very often when I'm out shopping, I'll bump into quite a few of them even though the Church is on the other side of town to where it's one of those "what are genuinely the odds?" I love them, though, to where if the Holy Spirit would allow me to, I'd build my new house pretty close to the Church so that if I couldn't walk a couple of blocks to the Church, I'd stop claiming I'm even trying to be there any more. :laughing7:
Quote from: jabcat on April 15, 2009, 01:49:27 AM
Hello. God had me stop denominationalism, I go on Sunday mornings with my wife and son (Baptist), no longer a "member". Wouldn't go there at all, am compromising, and probably not to God's perfect will (in my life). Raised Assembly of God/Pentecostal/Charismatic.
I believe God has different people different places at different times. He'll lead and arrange.
Me too... Wife say's so... :mblush: However, She hates it when I read U.R. and other downloads from the web on my PDA during the sermon! :happygrin:
Quote from: Pierac on April 15, 2009, 05:19:41 AMMe too... Wife say's so... :mblush: However, She hates it when I read U.R. and other downloads from the web on my PDA during the sermon! :happygrin:
Father, in the Name of Jesus, Lord Jesus said that if I abided in Him and His Written Word abode in me, then I'd ask what I wanted and it would be given to me. And You promised that if I was in monthly partnership with the graces You'd pointed out to me to assist in the spread of the Gospel that I could count on You to meet my needs according to Your riches in glory by Christ Jesus in both the defense and confirmation of the Gospel. Therefore, I say before the Lord, that because I can do all things through Christ which strengthens me as a result of my partnership in His sufferings and in those of the ministries that You've placed me in covenant with, in my holding the Word of life before a crooked and perverse generation and letting this mind be in me which was also in Christ Jesus, Who being in the form of God thought it not robbery to be called equal with God: since I'm a partaker of Your divine nature through these exceedingly great and precious promises, and I know that I have the petitions that I ask of You when I pray because the same Written Word is perfected in me that is perfected in Christ Jesus, therefore so that my joy will be full, I'm asking You for a PDA of my own that would actually work with this computer so that I can use it in the furtherance of my edification and spiritual development during the Sunday morning services at the Church that I go to. And, Father, yes, if You tell me to leave it home when I'm heading to the Tabernacle of David where my brothers and sisters will be, then I will leave it home. But only if You tell me to, and I clearly understand that You're telling me to do that. I thank You Father, that in this You are glorified, that I'm baring much fruit, therefore I have my new PDA in Jesus's Name. Amen! :cloud9:
Quote from: Pierac on April 15, 2009, 05:19:41 AM
Quote from: jabcat on April 15, 2009, 01:49:27 AM
Hello. God had me stop denominationalism, I go on Sunday mornings with my wife and son (Baptist), no longer a "member". Wouldn't go there at all, am compromising, and probably not to God's perfect will (in my life). Raised Assembly of God/Pentecostal/Charismatic.
I believe God has different people different places at different times. He'll lead and arrange.
Me too... Wife say's so... :mblush: However, She hates it when I read U.R. and other downloads from the web on my PDA during the sermon! :happygrin:
I can thankfully say my wife believes UR, even though she's still in the denomination. I don't have a pda, but I do take my Concordant, Christian Bible, and UR literature in to read during the sermon as well :Sparkletooth:. She doesn't mind that, but she did draw the line at me taking in the laptop...that was a no-go! :surrender:
Quote from: Pierac on April 15, 2009, 05:19:41 AM
Quote from: jabcat on April 15, 2009, 01:49:27 AM
Hello. God had me stop denominationalism, I go on Sunday mornings with my wife and son (Baptist), no longer a "member". Wouldn't go there at all, am compromising, and probably not to God's perfect will (in my life). Raised Assembly of God/Pentecostal/Charismatic.
I believe God has different people different places at different times. He'll lead and arrange.
Me too... Wife say's so... :mblush: However, She hates it when I read U.R. and other downloads from the web on my PDA during the sermon! :happygrin:
heehee. I would go to church if I could sit next to you guys. :winkgrin:
:cloud9: I don't. The Lord pulled me out a long, long, time ago. I know of none in this area that teach it. The fellowship I have at times been blessed to have (other than online) is from attending a few meetings here and there, of various Kingdom ministers, over the years, as I felt led to. Haven't got to do that in almost 3 years now. But it was precious when I did get to. Times and seasons.....Blessings....
Quote from: sparrow
/quote]
I don't attend a building church. I'll be the first to admit, I'm a strange, sensitive-ish. little loner bird. :icon_flower: (but that's not the only reason. personal reasons, I guess I'll say.)
Plus... if I heard the preacher talking about my beautiful God burning people for all eternity... I might end up throwing a hymn book at his head. :laughing7: :mshock: Did I just say that out loud??
tweet tweet.
You must be my twin. The last "church" I attended was for my mother's funeral. I have a deeply rooted dislike for organized religious services. I went to so many churches when I was searching for the truth and had so many unpleasant experiences that now when I drive by a church and the parking lot is full of cars, I just get a weird memory of the past.
I have enjoyed a few UR church gatherings over the years that I traveled to attend. But they're generally not operated like traditional churches. The main thing I dislike about 'church' is screaming, angry preachers which you can sometimes hear if you just turn the radio dial around a bit. That makes me sick to hear.
Anne
I'm kind of in between when it comes to attending church. There was obviously an emphasis on the importance of church in Scripture and many warnings about what is being preached. But having said that, if there are no churches that can even come close to resembling the original message of the early churches, then is it any wonder people choose not to go.
It feels like there's an underlying message to some of these posts that the main reason why people who are going, go, is not because of the message from the pulpit, but because of the relationships they have with others. And I honestly think that's actually the main reason for anyone to be going in the first place. I think we are created as social beings that flourish when we're in a social gathering or environment. When we believe in relationship over religion, I believe that also means that the title on the door of the building is of little consequence. If we have friends inside, then that's all the reason needed.
Yet at the same time, for me . . .it's easy to say that cuz I'm a pastor and it's hard for me not to like what comes from the pulpit because I'm the one at the pulpit. And . . . believe it or not, I'm not all that social of a person. If it were left up to me, I'd probably be happiest in a cabin in the woods somewhere as long as there is a river nearby and a lot of deer around, that's all it'd take to keep me satisfied. So when I say things like I just did, the message is not just for those reading it . . .but it's for the one writing it as well.
I truly believe relationship is more important than religion. But I can also feel for those that squirm through the sermons of pastors that feel it appropriate to beat the congregation . . .or . .on the other end, they're so dry that you need to bring a bottle of head-n-shoulders with you every time you hear them preach or teach. How cool would it be if the majority of the churches around us were pursuing life more than law.
I have an assembly of God upbringing, I pastor a foursquare church . .which doctrinally is the same as assemblies but the inner structure of how things are run is what's different. And I've also learned that neither are all that open to the other for whatever reason. I tell new people attending that we are "of" a denomination, but we are not denominational. I'm sure my superiors wouldn't appreciate that much, but as far as they are concerned, "that" issue is the least of my problems with them.
Quote from: Nathan on April 15, 2009, 03:30:13 PM
I'm kind of in between when it comes to attending church. There was obviously an emphasis on the importance of church in Scripture and many warnings about what is being preached. But having said that, if there are no churches that can even come close to resembling the original message of the early churches, then is it any wonder people choose not to go.
It feels like there's an underlying message to some of these posts that the main reason why people who are going, go, is not because of the message from the pulpit, but because of the relationships they have with others. And I honestly think that's actually the main reason for anyone to be going in the first place. I think we are created as social beings that flourish when we're in a social gathering or environment. When we believe in relationship over religion, I believe that also means that the title on the door of the building is of little consequence. If we have friends inside, then that's all the reason needed.
Yet at the same time, for me . . .it's easy to say that cuz I'm a pastor and it's hard for me not to like what comes from the pulpit because I'm the one at the pulpit. And . . . believe it or not, I'm not all that social of a person. If it were left up to me, I'd probably be happiest in a cabin in the woods somewhere as long as there is a river nearby and a lot of deer around, that's all it'd take to keep me satisfied. So when I say things like I just did, the message is not just for those reading it . . .but it's for the one writing it as well.
I truly believe relationship is more important than religion. But I can also feel for those that squirm through the sermons of pastors that feel it appropriate to beat the congregation . . .or . .on the other end, they're so dry that you need to bring a bottle of head-n-shoulders with you every time you hear them preach or teach. How cool would it be if the majority of the churches around us were pursuing life more than law.
I have an assembly of God upbringing, I pastor a foursquare church . .which doctrinally is the same as assemblies but the inner structure of how things are run is what's different. And I've also learned that neither are all that open to the other for whatever reason. I tell new people attending that we are "of" a denomination, but we are not denominational. I'm sure my superiors wouldn't appreciate that much, but as far as they are concerned, "that" issue is the least of my problems with them.
I mostly go for the opportunity to minister/ fellowship as you mentioned.
I typically get very little from the sermons. If there is anything good in there, it's usually just confirmation of stuff I've already learned from the Holy Spirit.
Hebrews 8
10This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel
after that time, declares the Lord.
I will put my laws in their minds
and write them on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
11No longer will a man teach his neighbor,
or a man his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,'
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest.
12For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more."
Quote from: Paul L on April 14, 2009, 08:08:26 PM
It's amazing how few UR churches there are out there. We have like one or two in the Nashville area, but it's unitarian and denies the deity of Christ, so you'll be sitting next to buddhists and muslims and whatever all "worshipping" together.
Are there any independent churches that actually believe in UR and are spirit filled (believing and practicing all the giftings), yet without being a divisive type of church? My experience has seen alot of churches that are started just to try to oppose other Christians beliefs and I don't see how that's a good premise or mission statement. I don't want a church where an issue or "ism" is the focus or mission statement. We follow Christ, not isms.
I really wish there were a church that has the basic tenants of this tentmaker site. 1) God loves all people and is and will reconcile all to himself 2) He gave us His spirit to empower believers and walk in miracles, healing and prophecy 3) The scriptures are the truth about the truth, but not THE truth. (I've never seen any church with this mindset. Either you're 100% inerrant or a heretic)
Any churches out there like this?!!?
In my personal experience the purpose of church is to be taught and to fellowship. Paul never taught UR specifically in his epistles. I would waste away pretty quickly on an all milk diet of God is love, God is love, God is love... As Paul teaches; to
some God gives gifs of miracles, healing and prophecy. There are at least 14 gifts listed by Paul. I myself do not have the gift of miracles or prophesy or physical healing, so I wouldn't want to be taught about those three day in and day out.
I worry sometimes that UR is going to get so blended in with New Age, our duties as disciples and servants to Jesus Christ, Him and Him alone, is going to become clouded with too much cloud 9.
Find a good Bible teaching church. I completely agree with what you have to say regarding isms and ologies. But I think it's important to learn about them anyways, because they do exist.
No proper Bible teacher will teach that either you're 100% inerrant or a heretic. I know mine sure doesn't. Does he agree with my UR leanings? Of course not. Does he understand what they are and where the originate from? Of course he does. Does he condemn me for having them? Certainly not. Would he like me to side with his teaching 100%? Sure. Does he demand or even expect it? No way. All he expects is from me have proper respect for his authority (2 Peter 2:10) and not to go against him in a way that would cause strife within our fellowship (Proverbs 6:19).
I chose this church for solid Bible teaching and solid fellowship.
Or more properly, God answered my prayers and lead me to it.
A good place to help me build a strong foundation.
http://www.messiahschristianfellowship.org/
Quote from: Brian on April 15, 2009, 10:35:08 PM
In my personal experience the purpose of church is to be taught and to fellowship. Paul never taught UR specifically in his epistles. I would waste away pretty quickly on an all milk diet of God is love, God is love, God is love... As Paul teaches; to some God gives gifs of miracles, healing and prophecy. There are at least 14 gifts listed by Paul. I myself do not have the gift of miracles or prophesy or physical healing, so I wouldn't want to be taught about those three day in and day out.
You'd want to be taught about them if you realized that faith to activate them, just like faith for the new birth comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. You can "catch" the anointings by being around them. St. Paul told the Church at Philippi that through their commited partnership with his ministry that they were partakers of his grace (i.e. the grace on his life) in the defense and confirmation of the Gospel. And the last verse in Mark says that the Gospel is confirmed with signs following. And we can see how Paul defended the Gospel in the book of Acts. On one occasion, it became necessary for someone to become blind in order to lead them to Christ in the way that he was lead to Christ. So, he spoke for the Hand of the Lord to be upon them and for them to be unable to see the light of the sun for a season.
There's no question that the same anointing that worked in his conversion was being stirred up by his faith on that occasion by the leading of the Holy Spirit to speak that it be so, and Jesus in His High Priestly ministry stretched forth the scepter of His righteousness and it was so. Paul comforted that guy in the way that he himself had been comforted by God (2Corinthians 1:3-5). Dude suddenly couldn't see a train coming his way, if they'd had trains back then.
Until... Paul was telling that Philippian Church that because of their care for his ministry in their prayers and support that they should have been expecting the exact same signs and wonders in their lives as they held forth the Word of life before a crooked and perverse generation.
Yes, Jesus sets ministries in the Church according to His own choice as the Head, but as the Word is of no private interpretation according to 2Peter 1, the Anointing is the same way according to 1John 2. Ephesians 4 says that the ministry offices are for the perfecting of the saints for the work of the ministry. A prophet is only anointed as a prophet [ultimately] to make those that he's called to minister to as prophets. Same with the Apostles, Evangelists, Teachers, Workers of Miracles, Administrative gifts of Kingdom Seed in the Kingdom, Gifts of Healings, etc., etc., etc. The Anointing is contagious if you're where God wants you to be.
God calls people to Churches and field ministries with particular anointings because He fully intends to expand the anointing from that Apostle, Prophet, Pastor, or whatever into the lives of the people of the congregation as they obey God. If you were a produce manager in a grocery store and yet an ongoing supportive partner of a prophet, what kind of money could you save your store if the Word of the Lord suddenly came to you telling you not to order avocados with the next truck? whether or not God told you specifics about either folks aren't going to buy 'em, the shipment will go to crap on the way, they're two dollars each this week, yet you're going to get boxes and boxes of 'em if you order 'em right now that are as big as grape tomatoes. He might not necessarily give you that detail, but He'll still provide the guidance on what to do, when to do it, and how to avoid wasting money for whatever company you'd work with.
Or let's say you're a school teacher and God's pulling you hard into the life and ministry of one of His better teachers in the Body of Christ. Without question, while God's looking to provide whatever in the life of that teaching ministry to keep it going, He's also after providing that school teacher with the supernatural recall and the ability to teach in the classroom in all of the supernatural demensions with all of the accompanying miracles (John 3:2) that are in the life of that teaching ministry. Didn't Jesus call the Seed of the Kingdom leaven that would fill the whole earth? Anointing works by the same principles as the Word, your financial sowing by the Word, and anything else in the Kingdom. While God does call people to specialize in His service with the Word and the Spirit, it's for the profit of the Kingdom and not just to give someone something to do with their time, so some joker will have a place to preach or whatever. He's got regional and global segments of the Body in mind when He places His anointing on someone, fully intending for others to share and excel in that grace.
:cloud9: I think part of the problem has been in the fact that the "body" didn't realize that it was ALL supposed to grow up into the Head, in which there is no lack. If you saw 4 year old feet on a grown man, you'd say that was a deformity, and you'd be right.
In the same way, the WHOLE BODY of Christ was supposed to grow up in equal measure with the Head, displaying all that the head has to offer, in whatever gifting they STARTED with, and then in being raised to walk in other giftings. Ever notice how Paul described himself in different "offices" as time went on? He was growing. This is so that if you, matured in the Lord, went to another "church", you could fill that which every joint needs, by being obedient to surrender yourself to His Spirit.
I'm not an apostle, yet as He had need in the body, He sent me out more than once, operating in the "calling" and anointing of an apostle. The "callings" we have, have been misunderstood.
He calls, we answer. That's our calling. :winkgrin: We go as one sent, CALLED to do His will, and manifest His nature thru the anointing to do whatever His will dictates, according to the needs of the body. And He equips us with the anointing to do HIS will. Blessings...
Yeah, and God doesn't just call to the ministry. He calls to banking. He calls to government, according to St. Paul in Romans, although we can't be moved by what we see in that regard and realize Paul was audacious enough to say that in the Roman Empire. The calling was there, whether or not they were walking in His will with that calling. 2Peter 1 talks about taking the necessary steps to make ones calling and election sure. How anyone ever twisted that into heaven/hell, I have NO IDEA. LOL!! God calls people to the medical profession. God calls teachers, cooks, librarians, florists, and spouses, although as with the case of the governmental situation not all either enter that call that were supposed to, or they pursue teaching, cooking, libraries, flowers, or a spouse without submission to the Scriptures and the Holy Spirit.
God calls people to everything you can imagine that's in line with His character and Scriptural designs for His Kingdom. And who He appoints, He anoints. If someone's genuinely called by Him to be a politician, a florist, a dentist, a carpenter, a tentmaker, a spouse, etc., then nobody else is quite going to be as good of a spouse, as good of a carpenter, as good of a florist, as good of a professional singer, professional photographer, or whatever as the one that He's called to step into that office where He's called them to step into it. From experience, life is extremely frustrating when you're not where you're supposed to be, when you're not saying what you're supposed to say, and when you're not focused on the geographical region that you're supposed to focus on.
I've tasted enough of His perfect will to never ever want anything else ever again, even if He's having me buy something really strange from the produce department, the seasoning aisle, or something that I had mixed feelings about buying but He had it in mind as a seed to someone else's life. To someone that's never had His perfect will before, it can seem like the most complicated, most tedious, most demanding thing you could ever step into. But in reality, you discover all of the reasons why you've ever done what you've ever done, why you've read, studied, and acquired the tastes that you've acquired, why you've gone through all you've gone through thus far, perhaps why He's seemed strange to you up until now and what He was really getting at, etc.
The God that can make a flower arrangement of His own in nature totally breath taking, can make each person's life totally breath taking, if they'd just obey Him. He knows where you'll get the most usage of your money, where you'll leave the lies behind, where the door out of heaviness of heart is at, and where you'll have peace and joy that'll bring tears in your eyes 'cause you never knew He was actually this good. It's not just all about ministry. It's about the recovery and the discovery of life as it was always meant to be, with His Blessing, with the abundance of His Presence, and with more favor than you ever dreamed was possible.
Life will unquestionably still try to come down hard on you, because Matthew 13 and Mark 4 says that the devil does try to steal the Word that was sown in you, and it lists his full arsenol of things that he'll try to pull. But the Scriptures say to resist him and he'll flee. And sometimes the resistance seems like it'll never end, but the dreary clouds do break up, the sun does come forth, and the birds will fill your day with their singing. Just as with UR, when it comes to all of the prosperity things that I'll bring up from the Word and people's arguments against that, no matter what their arguments against anything that I'll say from the Word regarding present blessings and opportunities through His divine grace to enrich this life wind up being, it's really again [always] just confusion over the difference between process and outcome in the Scriptures. In every case!
:cloud9: Amen, Martin, that is very true.....
You can catch the anointing ... through their committed partnership with his ministry ... confirmed with signs following ... no question that the same anointing ... for his ministry in their prayers and support ... signs and wonders the Anointing is the same ... only anointed ... Workers of Miracles, Administrative gifts of Kingdom Seed ... etc., etc., etc. ... with particular anointing because He fully intends to expand the anointing ... into the lives of the people of the congregation as they obey ... the supernatural ... with all of the accompanying miracles ... that are in the life of that teaching ministry ... God does call people to specialize in His service with the Word and the Spirit, it's for the profit of the Kingdom ... when He places His anointing on someone ... fully intending for others to share ...
Martin for a moment, you almost sounded like Jerry Savelle, Jesse Duplantis, and Kenneth Copeland?
peacemaker
Actually, I was referring to what I see in the Scriptures and have experienced first hand.
Thanks for the compliment, though, peacemaker:-) I count it an honor for anyone to associate me with those men of God who are good friends of mine. Christ Jesus has used the anointing on one of those that you mentioned to save my life more than once and to get me out of sin more than once, and to build genuine integrity into me.
Thank you sooo much, peacemaker! Thank you!! God bless you!!! God is goooood, isn't He?
Quote from: sparrow on April 15, 2009, 02:33:04 AM
Quote from: jabcat on April 15, 2009, 01:49:27 AM
I believe God has different people different places at different times. He'll lead and arrange.
Plus... if I heard the preacher talking about my beautiful God burning people for all eternity... I might end up throwing a hymn book at his head. :laughing7: :mshock: Did I just say that out loud??
tweet tweet.
If you can make that a little more definite, I'll supply all the hymn books you want for free!
:cloud9: rofl....
Quote from: martincisneros on April 16, 2009, 07:29:22 AM
Thanks for the compliment, though, peacemaker:-) I count it an honor for anyone to associate me with those men of God who are good friends of mine. Christ Jesus has used the anointing on one of those that you mentioned to save my life more than once and to get me out of sin more than once, and to build genuine integrity into me.
Nothing but an observation, although, having integrity is a good thing!
"An inner sense of wholeness."peacemaker
(Other than the phrase, "Go to church" never occurs in the Bible in relation to anyone or anything! Since the fire came and rested on everyone in the Upper Room "WE ARE THE CHURCH" and everywhere we go we bring the presence of God.)
While I really believe in the freedom in a home fellowship, unless you get a little outside help, it's very unlikely the group will continue more than a couple of years at most. But...at least you get to experience the body ministering one to another and what the liberty is that the Spirit brings. The Church isn't even on the program of most that call their stage show "church." We need to catch the purpose of God to make each of us into His image and likeness and meet on that basis. How can that "Perfect Man" happen without participating with other members of His body? "Here we have no continuing city." (Hebrews)
Another "Church" scene for me is some place where there are hungry people who love Jesus and His word, specially those newly born again, because that's where I can do maximum damage! Of course you have to walk in more wisdom there than you can muster; but, I makes you lean heavy on the Lord to lead you what to do or say and when to shut up. I thank Him for times when He actually shut me up. We'll see how far we can go this time before we get a bad name and are told to leave...or, will we completely succeed? There are so many things that need adjusting! I won't share clear specifics of Universal Salvation until they have demonstrated willingness to change to be more in accordance with what is written and I know they'll give me enough time to get enough out to adequately present the case, unless God makes it happen. Ideally this is in the context of having learned that agreement on these matters is not the center of our fellowship. That this and so many other peripheral differences cannot be allowed to divide brethren while we yet remain open to discuss, search out and change our beliefs as we walk together is an attitude advancing toward maturity. I believe the establishment of this latter quality of character makes possible whatever subsequent change God would bring because they've learned to listen to other brethren and weigh what they hear with what is written.
Because I know I'll inevitably be PMed about what I've said on this thread, sometime, eventually, perhaps even weeks after the regulars around here have forgotten about this thread, I'll go ahead and add to what I've already said:
I don't want to get the old Hatfield/McCoy fuss started around here that certain search terms around here has caused in the past, but integrity is all that free will means to me. If I say I'll do something or that I'm good for something, I'll smash every molecule of this body in the process of doing what I said I'd do IF IT TOOK IT to do what I said I'd do. When you get that serious about your own word, then faith in the Written Word of God is the easiest thing 'cause it's first nature to you to regard it as His bond that He has bled through the pores of His skin to keep. And yes, it is unquestionably the grace of God at work in someone's life to bring them to that point.
It's the grace of God that recreates the inner man when someone repents of their sin and confesses His Lordship over their lives according to Luke 24, Acts 17, Acts 20, Romans 10, 2Corinthians 5, and 1Peter 1. When someone is born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible seed through the Word of God that liveth and abideth to the age of 1Corinthians 15:28, all things genuinely become possible to those that believe His Written Word. I don't believe in the total depravity of the new man that I've heard from many even around here, that irrespective of what is ever brought up about the Word, the Blood, the Anointing, Faith, and the New Birth that somehow someone is still incapable of baring fruit.
No, life has been sown into us so that we would bare much fruit and so that our fruit would remain, that whatever we ask the Father in the Name of Jesus He'll give to us. Nobody's tried to say, [or nobody that I've ever heard and studied with,] that building your life on the rock is easy 'cause Luke's Gospel says you have to dig deep. But it is doable because He's already given to us all that heaven has through His exceedingly great and precious promises that have come to us in His grace and peace so that by these precious promises we'd be participants of the divine nature, escaping the corruption that's in the world through the things that would try to choke the Word. For this reason we make our calling and election sure, because we have the promise that as we dig deep that we'll never stumble.
Actually says that in the Word of God although that seems to be very foreign to many believers. And in saying that it says that if we dig deep, I am obviously passing over a number of verses in 2Peter 1 and summarizing them with that statement about digging deep from Luke's Gospel. 1Corinthians chapters 9 through 14 and Ephesians 4 says that the stitches that hold it all together are the ministry gifts that Christ has set in the Body until we all come into the fullness of the stature of all of these anointings that are being ministered among us and that we're having opportunity to sow into and with. We're compacted, or held together, by that which every joint, or every joining of these anointings supplies. That's where each of these gifts intercept with our lives and where we're not therefore ashamed of the Lord, nor of His prisoners but are partakers in the afflictions of the Gospel according to the power of God Who has saved us and called us with a holy calling according to His own purpose and grace.
2Corinthians 8 says we're supposed to be growing in all of the graces that Christ has sown into the Body rather than finding the quickest door away from some of them because they don't see the perfect Day of the Lord, and the end intended by the Lord, as clearly as we do. It's our bonds in the anointing that hold us together. And the anointings keep growing as they combine as sperm and egg would join together in the Body. And as we keep nurturing those relationships that God gives us, then the Body keeps growing and reaching, growing and reaching for the day that all of the nations have Christ formed in them. (Galatians 4:19) It's the very Gospel that we preach that Christ Jesus in His High Priestly ministry is nurturing the growth of in the earth, until every need in every life is fulfilled. But it's not anything that God's going to do in a corner, and it's not anything that God's going to discard the previous generations of the administrations of the High Priestly ministry of Jesus over. He's consummating all of history not only in Him, but Ephesians says it's in these very anointings (i.e. Christ) that I've been talking about every chance that I get.
My sperm and egg analogy that I felt like I passed over too briefly in my previous post was meant to convey that when anointings from Christ within the Body combine, then they produce an anointing that's a little different than either of the parent anointings and it's next generation. I realize I was very sketchy on my Scripture references, but I did my best to speak in the exact words of Scripture on what I just said if you need to reread that a dozen times and then read through about a dozen translations of the New Testament trying to prove me wrong. Just do it prayerfully, if you take on that type of attitude, and have the exact words of the Scriptures if you'd wish to draw my attention to a difference of interpretation of the anointings related to the expanding Body from His High Priesthood and as both relate to the discipleship of the nations and the consummation of history which in actuality is the consummation of every promise of the Written Word to the furthest demension intended by Father prior to the resurrection that takes us to the next stage of this on the New Earth that'll have a whole different history and further demension of Scriptural prophetic fulfillment of it's own as Christ makes final day preparations related to 1Corinthians 15:28. Tall order, but I sincerely just poured my heart out. All things that pertain to life, godliness, and the future have been provided for in the Written Word of God.
Pray God sends me an English teacher willing to freely edit everything I write in more manageable English. I'm really bad about those kinds of sentences when my heart is particularly pouring an interpretation of things I've previously had in my spirit's relationship with the Holy Spirit. Sometimes I'll try to edit my stuff and I have no idea where and how to reword that. And get leery of jacking with what I just said.
Upper Room
508. anogeon an-ogue'-eh-on from 507 and 1093; above the ground, i.e. (properly) the second floor of a building; used for a dome or a balcony on the upper story:--upper room.
507. ano an'-o adverb from 473; upward or on the top:--above, brim, high, up.
1093. ge ghay contracted from a primary word; soil; by extension a region, or the solid part or the whole of the terrene globe (including the occupants in each application):--country, earth(-ly), ground, land, world.
Terrene Synonyms (earthen):
• earthlike
• terrestrial
• earthbound
• earthy
• mundane
• secular
• tellurian
• telluric
• temporal
• worldly
• dirt
Globe – a spherical body; sphere.
A spherical or bowl like container, especially a glass cover for a light bulb.
Any ideas, or thoughts come to mind?
peacemaker
Hey "Nathan"... the pastor of the foursquare church... were you ordained before you accepted UR? I thought you wouldn't be able to be a pastor without accepting their posted doctrine:
Hell
We believe that hell is a place of darkness, deepest sorrow, and unquenchable fire, which was not prepared for man but for the devil and his angels; yet it will become the place of eternal separation from God for all who reject Christ as Savior (Matthew 13: 41, 42; Revelation 20:10, 15).
Judgment
We believe that all shall stand before the judgment seat of Christ: the redeemed to be delivered unto everlasting life, and the unrepentant unto everlasting punishment (Revelation 20:11, 12; 2 Corinthians 5:10).
Quote from: peacemaker on April 16, 2009, 08:16:21 PM
Upper Room
508. anogeon an-ogue'-eh-on from 507 and 1093; above the ground, i.e. (properly) the second floor of a building; used for a dome or a balcony on the upper story:--upper room.
Globe – a spherical body; sphere.
A spherical or bowl like container, especially a glass cover for a light bulb.
Any ideas, or thoughts come to mind?
peacemaker
:cloud9: The "upper room" of the mind, ie. Golgotha, the place of the skull. The tongues of fire came upon their heads, and begin to purify the soul. Blessings.....
Quote from: Cardinal on April 17, 2009, 02:49:48 AM
Quote from: peacemaker on April 16, 2009, 08:16:21 PM
Upper Room
508. anogeon an-ogue'-eh-on from 507 and 1093; above the ground, i.e. (properly) the second floor of a building; used for a dome or a balcony on the upper story:--upper room.
Globe – a spherical body; sphere.
A spherical or bowl like container, especially a glass cover for a light bulb.
Any ideas, or thoughts come to mind?
:cloud9: The "upper room" of the mind, ie. Golgotha, the place of the skull. The tongues of fire came upon their heads, and begin to purify the soul. Blessings.....
Indeed, Cardinal, the event is more important than the place.
Quote from: Cardinal on April 17, 2009, 02:49:48 AM
Quote from: peacemaker on April 16, 2009, 08:16:21 PM
Upper Room
508. anogeon an-ogue'-eh-on from 507 and 1093; above the ground, i.e. (properly) the second floor of a building; used for a dome or a balcony on the upper story:--upper room.
Globe – a spherical body; sphere.
A spherical or bowl like container, especially a glass cover for a light bulb.
peacemaker
:cloud9: The "upper room" of the mind, ie. Golgotha, the place of the skull. The tongues of fire came upon their heads, and begin to purify the soul. Blessings.....
And the oil fed the flame as it flowed down the beard of the Enlightened High Priest to the hem of his garment: ENGULFED CATHEDRAL...swallowed up in victory!!!
:cloud9: Amen guys; but I started to ask you all if you "got" the connection I was trying to make, as in, "dome" and cranium, and then it hit me that is why the DOME of the Rock is built on the temple mount, ie. another natural witness only in this case to be a reproach, of something God's Spirit did. Blessings....
Quote from: peacemaker on April 16, 2009, 06:55:17 AM
Martin for a moment, you almost sounded like Jerry Savelle, Jesse Duplantis, and Kenneth Copeland?
Or Charles Capps? Martin - do you remember the Gos-pill Capps-sules??? :laughing7:
Remember them? I shattered obesity from this body with them and got my ears cleaned out to be able to consistently hear the Lord's Voice with them. I still consider Charles Capps little booklets "God's Creative Power Will Work For You" and "God's Creative Power For Healing" to be required reading for anyone to get the rest of the way to where they're trying to get if they have any genuine ideas of God really turning certain situations in their lives around. Some issue, somewhere in their life is covered by those two minibooks, although obviously it'll take many more principles than there's space in those booklets to elaborate on, besides those basic principles, to get there. Perfecting love, perseverance, and developing experience and wisdom in the smallest things of life with those booklets are necessary key ingredients for people to stick with the principles in those little books -- otherwise, anything really great doesn't last too long if you can't push your way into some results with it sometime or other. Some people still don't have an accurately set clock on the VCR/DVR or in their automobile that they've had for years! Plus, John 8, John 15, Joshua 1, Proverbs 4, Mark 4, Colossians 3, and 1John 2, among [many] other passages, indicates rather conspicuously that it's going to take getting as much of the Word abiding in you as you can possibly cram into your innermost being and lifestyle to get very far and very deep into the results the Kingdom has for you with it's Blessings.
Quote from: Paul L on April 17, 2009, 12:49:49 AM
Hey "Nathan"... the pastor of the foursquare church... were you ordained before you accepted UR? I thought you wouldn't be able to be a pastor without accepting their posted doctrine:
Hell
We believe that hell is a place of darkness, deepest sorrow, and unquenchable fire, which was not prepared for man but for the devil and his angels; yet it will become the place of eternal separation from God for all who reject Christ as Savior (Matthew 13: 41, 42; Revelation 20:10, 15).
Judgment
We believe that all shall stand before the judgment seat of Christ: the redeemed to be delivered unto everlasting life, and the unrepentant unto everlasting punishment (Revelation 20:11, 12; 2 Corinthians 5:10).
I was as traditional as they come for the first year of my tenure. It was almost on my one year aniversary to the day that it all changed. I felt led to lead the church through a 40 day fast with the specific purpose for seeking direction of where God wanted us to go as a church. Just after the 40 days were completed, I was given a video tape called "The voice behind me" a message delivered by a guy named Mark Hanby. The second "literally" my hands touched the tape, God spoke to my spirit (if Ice Dash is still around, that's the arena where God speaks to me the most . . .) and stated that this was the direction we were to go.
The crazy thing is, I never made the connection that this was a result of the fast until another year later. But I digress . . . I took the tape and called the leadership of my church together . . .told them I have no idea who this Mark Hanby guy is, I have no idea what the video is about aside from the title . . .but this is the direction God is leading us. We watched the tape, I later played it again for the congregation . .and we've never looked back since. I did have several families leave . . but since then, I've had just as many come in and stay.
But no, in the beginning, I was a Pastor first . .then I went dimensional.
I go to The Vineyard and every Sunday the First song sung is
Come, now is the Time to Worship
Come, now is the time to give your heart
Come, just as you are to worship
Come, just as you are before your God
Someday every tongue will confess you are God
Someday every knee will bow
Still the greatest treasure remains for those who gladly serve you now
My pastor is the one who told me about UR. He presented it as a possiblility, not a certainty. It's great belong to a church that is not a bounded set!
Hell
We believe that hell is a place of darkness, deepest sorrow, and unquenchable fire, which was not prepared for man but for the devil and his angels; yet it will become the place of eternal separation from God for all who reject Christ as Savior (Matthew 13: 41, 42; Revelation 20:10, 15).
Judgment
We believe that all shall stand before the judgment seat of Christ: the redeemed to be delivered unto everlasting life, and the unrepentant unto everlasting punishment (Revelation 20:11, 12; 2 Corinthians 5:10).
I believe in UR and I also believe each of these statments. Every human repents!!!
:cloud9: I love that song...... :thumbsup:
Quote from: mrsocko on April 18, 2009, 05:00:19 AM
I go to The Vineyard and every Sunday the First song sung is
Come, now is the Time to Worship
Come, now is the time to give your heart
Come, just as you are to worship
Come, just as you are before your God
Someday every tongue will confess you are God
Someday every knee will bow
Still the greatest treasure remains for those who gladly serve you now
My pastor is the one who told me about UR. He presented it as a possiblility, not a certainty. It's great belong to a church that is not a bounded set!
Hell
We believe that hell is a place of darkness, deepest sorrow, and unquenchable fire, which was not prepared for man but for the devil and his angels; yet it will become the place of eternal separation from God for all who reject Christ as Savior (Matthew 13: 41, 42; Revelation 20:10, 15).
Judgment
We believe that all shall stand before the judgment seat of Christ: the redeemed to be delivered unto everlasting life, and the unrepentant unto everlasting punishment (Revelation 20:11, 12; 2 Corinthians 5:10).
I believe in UR and I also believe each of these statments. Every human repents!!!
You can't believe in UR
and those statements as stated above and be consistent. They are a contradiction in terms.
Replace the words "eternal" and "everlasting" with their proper translation and you might be getting somewhere.
Quote.... and the unrepentant unto everlasting punishment (Revelation 20:11, 12; 2 Corinthians 5:10).
There is a lot to think about in that sentence. It are not literal verses but summizes pretty well what I've seen on several ET sites.
It speaks about "unrepentant" not about sinners.
IMO there are two types of people. "sinners that do repent" and "sinners that do not repent"
So the UNrepenting sinners get punished forever. But my guess is that during the punishment they start to repent.
And that is the point they join the other group.
I go to a Wesleyan or this Vineyard church most the time. Id love it if there were a church around here that was christian universalist (rather than unitarian, we have one of those)
but I think its more important to not divide over stupid doctuninal issues and instead unite on what we do share in common. Being around people that believe very differently allows me to share what I have learned without having to section myself off behind concrete walls.
QuoteYou can't believe in UR and those statements as stated above and be consistent. They are a contradiction in terms.Replace the words "eternal" and "everlasting" with their proper translation and you might be getting somewhere.
Sorry, I use the proper translations of eternal and everlasting when I read passages like that, with out thinking that there are people out there who would be offended. So sorry for being "inconstistent".
Quote from: mrsocko on April 20, 2009, 05:26:30 AM
QuoteYou can't believe in UR and those statements as stated above and be consistent. They are a contradiction in terms.Replace the words "eternal" and "everlasting" with their proper translation and you might be getting somewhere.
Sorry, I use the proper translations of eternal and everlasting when I read passages like that, with out thinking that there are people out there who would be offended. So sorry for being "inconstistent".
Understood.
Quote from: martincisneros on April 16, 2009, 12:57:23 AM
Quote from: Brian on April 15, 2009, 10:35:08 PM
In my personal experience the purpose of church is to be taught and to fellowship. Paul never taught UR specifically in his epistles. I would waste away pretty quickly on an all milk diet of God is love, God is love, God is love... As Paul teaches; to some God gives gifs of miracles, healing and prophecy. There are at least 14 gifts listed by Paul. I myself do not have the gift of miracles or prophesy or physical healing, so I wouldn't want to be taught about those three day in and day out.
You'd want to be taught about them if you realized that faith to activate them, just like faith for the new birth comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God.
What I wanted to express was, I don't want to see one to thee particular gifts highlighted, and the rest basically ignored. A lot of people are taught if they don't manifest a particular gift, they're not right with God one way or another. But not everyone is given the same exact gifts. To
some the gift of tongues. To
some the gift of healing etc. Just because someone hasn't been given one of the top five most popular gifts, doesn't mean that person has fallen short in any way. Or that that person is a lesser disciple. God gives us these gifts to enable us to serve Him, in whatever capacity He desires us to serve Him. Some people look to spiritual gifts as some badge of personal glory. "Look what
I can do!" "Look at what God gave
me because I
earned it." It is not about us, it's about Him and Him alone.
As far as material gifts go; if God gave me a Rolls Royce, I hope I'd sell it and give the money to the poor. Why in Christ's name would I seek earthly riches of any kind to indulge in?
being a disciple of Christ is a hard knocks life. The reward is in seeing it through to the end. I'd much rather rough it, than be pampered. I'd rather enter Paradise as a man crawling through the desert to get to an oasis.
I guess I'm seeing too much (not here, just all over) "God want's you happy and pampered on earth" "Blab it and grab it!" "God wants to give you worldly goodies." "It's all about what you can score through faith". "It's all about the special powers God will give you, to look wonderful and feel wonderful." *Sparkle, sparkle, bling, bling*
Speaking of bling, whatcha all think of the ring I ordred? I hope it arrives today, because today is my birthday.
:clock:
Quote from: Brian on April 21, 2009, 09:22:04 PMWhat I meant is, I don't want to see one to thee particular gifts highlighted, and the rest basically ignored. A lot of people are taught if they don't manifest a particular gift, they're not right with God one way or another. But not everyone is given the same exact gifts. To some the gift of tongues. To some the gift of healing etc. Just because someone hasn't been given one of the top five most popular gifts, doesn't mean that person has fallen short in any way. Or that that person is a lesser disciple. God gives us these gifts to enable us to serve Him, in whatever capacity He desires us to serve Him.
Exactly, just because someone hasn't had a particular grace manifested yet, doesn't mean they never will because of 1Corinthians 14:1 and 2Corinthians 8:7 and the promise of Ephesians 2 that His graces in our lives will continue to unfold over many ages.
Quote from: Brian on April 21, 2009, 09:22:04 PMAs far as material gifts go; if God gave me a Rolls Royce, I hope I'd sell it and give the money to the poor. Why in Christ's name would I seek earthly riches of any kind to indulge in?
Exactly, God gives us richly all things to enjoy according to 1Timothy 6, but not for our licentiousness as is dealt with in Ephesians 4. Working all manner of uncleanness with greediness which elsewhere is called idolatry would be completely wrong. But if God gave you a Rolls Royce, I'd hope you'd seek Him about what to do with it 'cause giving to the poor isn't His only agenda with things. He may want you to keep it, because evidently from what you're telling me, it would humble you for Daddy to tell you to do so because of some of the heat you might take for it and because of your own thoughts about things. Or He may want it sown into your pastor's life, or invested in some other good cause.
Our lives are about conformity with the image of Christ and being willing and obedient to Him in all things, and when we are, He promises we'll eat the good of the land. But He does tell us to put a knife to our throats if we're given to gluttony and St. Paul teaches having a moderate attitude about all things and not being brought under the power of anything. But through the sanctifying work of His Spirit we can know both how to be abased and how to abound; not that sometimes we'd be abased and sometimes we'd abound -- but that in all things we'd know how to, because we were prepared for any/every good work according to 2Timothy 2 and 2Corinthians 9.
If anything from a particular item of clothing to what's in our wallets to our stereos ever became clingy to our flesh nature and we were constantly talking about loving it, then it would be time to seek Him about how it could best serve Him as a seed, up to and including perhaps a seed sown to someone else. We've got degrees in our minds about how much is too much, but He simply said that if you've got two shirts and are about to go to Gehenna because you're loving those more than people, then cut them off! We can have things but things aren't to ever have us. We can appreciate God's blessings, but everything in our lives should be regarded as a seed that He can call upon any time He "hath need of it." Always be careful about ever criticizing what might honestly be someone else's hundredfold just because you don't know the neat story of grace behind this or that and what God's done through that in conforming them a little more to Himself.
I presently go to a Southern Baptist church but as a new Universalist this could pose a problem. :laughing7: They like their hell and brimstone. Although I'll probably still go occasionally as we have friends there and my son(now 4) is, despite the dozens of kids in the children's class, "the official Church kid". Most of the other kids are kids who parents are just using us for free baby sitting and money. They're all treated good but they don't get spoiled like mine.
The other kids don't get the hugs and kisses like mine does. And despite what they teach there are good Christian people out there. It's a little country church in the Ozarks. Most of the people don't have much money and plenty come to church with dirt from the fields still on their clothes but most would do anything for you.
I agree with ya ducktape, this is where letting relationship supercede doctrine applies. We shouldn't go to church to reinforce a doctrine, but to strengthen relationships. Many churches have messed up the priority . . .they're all supportive of the relationships . .so long as those having the relationships are willing to accept all of the doctrines.
Quote from: Nathan on April 22, 2009, 06:21:27 PM
I agree with ya ducktape, this is where letting relationship supercede doctrine applies. We shouldn't go to church to reinforce a doctrine, but to strengthen relationships. Many churches have messed up the priority . . .they're all supportive of the relationships . .so long as those having the relationships are willing to accept all of the doctrines.
Yes, the teaching we receive that focuses on our relationship with Christ, how to serve Him, how to overcome this world and our own flesh. How bear good fruit and walk victoriously, on the straight and narrow path along with a fellowship of building each other up, is of primary importance. If they teach hell, so what? They're not trying to strike fear into the hearts of the saved, telling them they have one foot in hell and the other foot on a banana peel, and they better do this or that to stay saved. And I myself do believe in hell. I believe in a place of suffering for the wicked. A place of anguish and testing, that I wouldn't want anyone to have to endure. I just don't think overall scripture and better translation supports eternal torture.
With regard to the OP: Currently I'm going to a Roman Catholic church. Not because I am RC myself, but because my wife is.
Its interesting, they rarely speak about hell - I'm not sure what the official Vatican position is now because I believe it changed recently.
Used to be "purgatory" now there's this "limbo" thing, don't know what that means for the unbelievers though.
Anyone have a good RC link so I can check what I'm supposed to believe? :winkgrin:
There are some nice people there though, none of them are hell & brimstone types. But its more for fellowship and a "social club" atmosphere - I haven't shared UR there with anyone except my wife.
Quote from: legoman on April 28, 2009, 03:52:58 PM
Anyone have a good RC link so I can check what I'm supposed to believe? :winkgrin:
:cloud9: rofl..... :grin:
Wife's mother had surgery (doing well) so she didn't "go to church" Sunday, so I didn't go either, as I go with her for her sake. Spent time with the Lord, praying, reading, but I told a friend today "the church didn't have to go to the building" Sunday morning. :icon_joker:
Quote from: Cardinal on April 29, 2009, 04:32:48 AM
Quote from: legoman on April 28, 2009, 03:52:58 PM
Anyone have a good RC link so I can check what I'm supposed to believe? :winkgrin:
:cloud9: rofl..... :grin:
Actually I was serious, as it seems the RC church may not really believe in hell anymore. So is there an official link with RC doctrine somewhere?
I just watched Religulous too (that's a whole another thread I could start), and there's a really funny yet interesting part where Bill interviews a "higher up" in the Catholic Church.
Peace...
Quote from: jabcat on April 29, 2009, 04:42:22 AM
Wife's mother had surgery (doing well) so she didn't "go to church" Sunday, so I didn't go either, as I go with her for her sake. Spent time with the Lord, praying, reading, but I told a friend today "the church didn't have to go to the building" Sunday morning. :icon_joker:
:laughing7:
glad your mother-in-law is doing well.
:HeartThrob:
Quote from: legoman on April 29, 2009, 05:47:59 AM
Quote from: Cardinal on April 29, 2009, 04:32:48 AM
Quote from: legoman on April 28, 2009, 03:52:58 PM
Anyone have a good RC link so I can check what I'm supposed to believe? :winkgrin:
:cloud9: rofl..... :grin:
Actually I was serious, as it seems the RC church may not really believe in hell anymore. So is there an official link with RC doctrine somewhere?
I just watched Religulous too (that's a whole another thread I could start), and there's a really funny yet interesting part where Bill interviews a "higher up" in the Catholic Church.
Peace...
:cloud9: Oops :mblush: My bad. I thought you were being funny.....and I have no idea where that site would be. Sorry (about both) :mblush: Blessings...
The new Catechism is online. info.com should be able to find it.
Thanks Sparrow...I posted more about this here, (http://www.tentmaker.org/forum/index.php?topic=5969.msg61782#msg61782) please see.
And Card. I thought what you said was funny. Oops. :laughing7:
Current Pope seems a stickler for Augustine's tradition in everything I've heard from him except one time, so I haven't had the same degree of interest in him that I had for the previous Pope. Previous Pope was more radically blantantly UR and Pentecostal, to the point of having somewhat regular dialogue with many well known leaders and television personalities in Pentecostal and Charismatic circles. I loved an evening that I spent reading his sermons online a long time ago. Seemed Postmill as well. Not sure if the Vatican's website still makes that stuff available to the public. Some people never take stuff down from their website, while others phase it out with newer stuff. I haven't been to the website in a while, but it should be easy to find via google.
Somewhere on the Vatican site is an archive with the speeches of many popes.
The current one is about real fire.
I'm not sure the previous one was UR Martin.
He didn't promote eternal fire but eternal seperation from God.
"His" eternal hell was loosing the link with God forever.
Quote from: Cardinal on April 29, 2009, 06:18:40 AM
Quote from: legoman on April 29, 2009, 05:47:59 AM
Quote from: Cardinal on April 29, 2009, 04:32:48 AM
Quote from: legoman on April 28, 2009, 03:52:58 PM
Anyone have a good RC link so I can check what I'm supposed to believe? :winkgrin:
:cloud9: rofl..... :grin:
Actually I was serious, as it seems the RC church may not really believe in hell anymore. So is there an official link with RC doctrine somewhere?
I just watched Religulous too (that's a whole another thread I could start), and there's a really funny yet interesting part where Bill interviews a "higher up" in the Catholic Church.
Peace...
:cloud9: Oops :mblush: My bad. I thought you were being funny.....and I have no idea where that site would be. Sorry (about both) :mblush: Blessings...
No problem, actually it was one of those joking yet serious questions where I really wanted an answer :winkgrin:
I figured the kind and knowledgeable folks here would save me a few google searches...
Quote from: WhiteWings on April 29, 2009, 07:06:39 AM
"His" eternal hell was loosing the link with God forever.
I believe that was Billy Graham's line at one time as well, then I heard he moved toward "we really don't know/can't limit what God might do" sort of POV.
:cloud9: You know, I have a feeling that there are a lot of "closet" UR believing ministers out there. For the simple reason, that if you keep pressing into God, God and His character is what you find. No one has to be there to "talk" you into it.
When I was having bible studies and a few disagreeable came in, be it disagreeable to the baptism in the Spirit, no rapture, ect., many times I didn't feel the unction to go over the scriptures with them. I just encouraged them to keep pressing in to God, knowing what they would find if they did. It worked quite well; usually in a few months they would be back, having seen or experienced the very thing they railed at me over.
I remember one such woman well. When she came back, cracked us up because she said she was reading the bible sitting on her toilet and all of sudden she saw thru revelation of the Spirit, that there was no rapture. She said she screamed and her husband thought there was something bad wrong with her and came running. :mblush: :mshock: :grin:
I think God has a sense of humor. We open mouth and insert foot, and He comes along and uses that foot as a giant fish hook. :laughing7: Or at least that's the way He works with me :mblush: :grin: Blessings....