The Potter and His clay & El Elyon

[pneuma]

Are the powers that cause disobedience stronger (more persuasive) than the powers that cause obedience? Is this why Adam sinned?

Sometimes it seems that way doesn't it.

God made man perfect according to His design. I think this perfect design in the beginning is not the perfect design we see at the end.

I agree

I do not blame God for any crap but I do give Him credit for all things.

Giving Him credit for the tares though brother is in total contradiction of scripture.

Pneuma, you believe we reap what we sow and I do too on one level. Do you think the grace we reap is equal to what we sow?

No Grace supper abounds, we receive much more than that which we sow in grace. Which is probably why you said this earlier

I do not reap what I sow, contrary to Scripture, I reap far more good than the evil I sowed, praise be to God.

The grace super abounded towards you far more than when you sowed error which is why you feel that you have reaped more good than evil.

'Hell' for me is not understanding myself relationally to God and your words, Pneuma (and others here), really help me climb a bit more out of that 'hell' towards the light of Heaven. I thank you for your patient words to me Brother.

Thanks bro, but were you see some light in my words other see winds of doctrine

[pneuma]

I recommend for anyone who wants to understand God's plan for us to read this excerpt from the NOBLE BEREAN by Thomas Kissinger.  It is Biblically based and doesn't jump through a bunch of hoops trying to explain/explain away scripture that "doesn't make sense to us"... IMO, it's an excellent summary and explanation of UR and God's purposes, and will help keep you from being "blown about by every wind of doctrine".

Jab I could pick that apart and show you a whole different understanding, but I would just be wasting my time as you have already made up your mind that what I am saying is a wind of doctrine.

I take no offence at that bro, but will point out that UR in your view probably was just a wind of doctrine at one time also.

[pneuma]

Well I guess I have said about all I can on this subject and would only be repeating myself time and again if I kept going, so I think it is time to end my participation on this thread.

Bob just wanted to say I very much enjoyed our conversation and am very glad we could talk plainly with each other without becoming offended with one another.

Zeek you seem to be hearing what I am saying bro, keep searching the scriptures before God and I believe you'll see much more than I have been able to explain. If I can be of any help on anything feel free to pm or email me.

Card I really hope when you have the time you look more closely before the Lord into the foundation, it really will change some of your understanding of the scriptures.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: I'm going to pneuma, I haven't forgotten. I'm just overwhelmed with natural issues right now, and too much of my time is spent in doctor's offices  :sigh: Blessings....

[pneuma]

:cloud9: I'm going to pneuma, I haven't forgotten. I'm just overwhelmed with natural issues right now, and too much of my time is spent in doctor's offices  :sigh: Blessings....

I understand that sis and you are in my prayers.

[bobf]

Well I guess I have said about all I can on this subject and would only be repeating myself time and again if I kept going, so I think it is time to end my participation on this thread.

Bob just wanted to say I very much enjoyed our conversation and am very glad we could talk plainly with each other without becoming offended with one another.

Thanks Scott, me too.  I'd started another long reply but I think it's best to let it go at that for now.

I did want to get in one point about Job though.

I don't believe Job was being chastised by God.  Chastisement is for when we fail to judge ourselves (1 Cor 11:31-32) which implies some degree of sin.  But Job is called "perfect and upright".  So what was happening to Job?  Job's faith was being tried by God because "The LORD trieth the righteous" (Psalm 11:5) and "when he hath tried me, I shall come forth as gold." (Job 23:10)  So I agree that Job's friends were wrong when they attributed Job's sufferings to Job's sin.

As far as who was doing all that to Job -- God or Satan.  Consider what Job had to say about it:  "the LORD gave, and the LORD hath taken away" and "shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil."  And of Job's words God said "in all this Job sinned not, nor charged God foolishly" (Job 1:22) and "...for ye [Job's friends] have not spoken of me the thing that is right, as my servant Job hath." (Job 42:7)


God bless,
Bob

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: I just want to say I've enjoyed reading all of your posts.....lots to meditate on..... :thumbsup: Blessings...

[bobf]

:cloud9: I just want to say I've enjoyed reading all of your posts.....lots to meditate on..... :thumbsup: Blessings...

Thanks Cardinal!

[jabcat]

:cloud9: I just want to say I've enjoyed reading all of your posts.....lots to meditate on..... :thumbsup: Blessings...

Thanks Cardinal!

Bob and I have a s/w different view of how to reach our conclusions within scripture, but alas, somehow usually end up seeing things very similarly, understanding many of these things the same way.   :hihat:

[bobf]

:cloud9: I just want to say I've enjoyed reading all of your posts.....lots to meditate on..... :thumbsup: Blessings...

Thanks Cardinal!

Bob and I have a s/w different view of how to reach our conclusions within scripture, but alas, somehow usually end up seeing things very similarly, understanding many of these things the same way.   :hihat:

:thumbsup:

[Song]

Psalms 137:9 Blessed shall he be who shall seize and dash thine infants against the rock. English Translation of the LXX

first thing that came to my mind was. OUR ROCK.  :thumbsup:

blessings.

chuckt

So, I was writing Bible verses for evangelism when someone said You should do Psalms 137:9 next.

I had typed my reply Thank you for the suggestion :D, but deleted it and decided to search up the verse, just in case it could be perceived as controversial.

Psalms 137:9 Blessed shall he be who takes your little ones and dashes them against the rock! ERV

So good thing I checked, or I could have stepped on a a proverbial land mine. Its why I always watch out for wolves in sheeps clothing.

So I looked through this thread and then replied Psalms 137:9, like many other parts of the Bible, is not meant to be taken literally

So they replied alright thanks for clarifying

You may have noticed I said proverbial land mine. Thats because, Psalms 137:9, like much of Proverbs, tells of a spiritual truth.

Another common one is The Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus. ECTers love to use that in debates, but when you imagine it as a metaphor of the Jews and the Gentiles, it makes sense.

he who seizes
שֶׁיֹּאחֵ֓ז (eyōḥz)

Can be seen as grabbing a spiritual hold of something, not physical. Like, if someones learning math, they can say they have a grasp on the topic. They arent physically holding it, they just understand it.

your infants
עֹ֝לָלַ֗יִךְ (ōlālayiḵ)
Strong's 5768: A suckling

and dashes
וְנִפֵּ֬ץ (wənippṣ)
Strong's 5310: To dash to pieces, scatter

Is also used in the following verse as little ones to pieces

Hosea 13:16
Samaria shall bear her guilt, because she has rebelled against her God; they shall fall by the sword; their little ones shall be dashed in pieces, and their pregnant women ripped open.

Hosea 13:17
Return, Israel, to the LORD your God. Your sins have been your downfall!

Reveals that the reason why the little ones are dashed on the rocks is because of sin, which is their downfall, and the LORD, is trying to persuade Israel to return to Him, thus the LORD is actively trying to stop the children from being dashed on the rocks!

https://ludwig.guru/s/dashed+on+the+rocks

reveals that dashed on the rocks is an idiom like on the rocks

On the rocks.
If something, like a relationship, is on the rocks, it is in trouble and may come to an end.

Thus, when the Bible says dashes on the rocks in Psalms 137:9 it means ending a relationship. The LORD wants all people to have a relationship with Him through Christ, thus, the relationship that God wants to end is the relationship humans have with sin in Hosea 13:17!

Thats why its a blessing! The little ones have a relationship with sin, so God dashes them on the rocks, ends their relationship with sin and dashes them against The Lord, who is the Rock (which is mentioned frequently in the same chapter of Psalms)

Psalm 18:1-3 I love you, Lord; you are my strength. The Lord is my rock, my fortress, and my savior
3. Psalm 71:3
Psalm 71:3 Be my rock of refuge, to which I can always go; give the command to save me, for you are my rock and my fortress.
Psalm 62:7-8 My honor and salvation come from God. He is my mighty rock and my protection.
Psalm 31:3-4 Yes, you are my Rock and my protection

Is God literally a rock No, Hes not physically a rock. Hes spiritually a rock, his spiritual protection is as hard as a rock.

And now I just used Psalms 137:9 in spreading the Gospel by saying The Lord is our Rock. He keeps the little ones on the Rock. Christ is our Rock. All will be saved through Him. He will save the world.

So, what was originally used as a controversial verse meant to stump Christians has now been transformed into a powerful loving verse meant to stump those who do not believe, leave them stunned by the sheer awe and splendor of the Lords love for all of humanity.

Why Because, it was always meant to be a reflection of Gods grace towards all of mankind.

2 Samuel 22:2 He said: The LORD is my rock, my fortress and my deliverer; my God is my rock, in whom I take refuge

And as well, thank you to everyone who has participate in this forum. Even a decade later, the discussion on here has helped me tremendously when spreading the Gospel of Universal Salvation through Jesus Christ to people.

[darryl]

And as well, thank you to everyone who has participate in this forum. Even a decade later, the discussion on here has helped me tremendously when spreading the Gospel of Universal Salvation through Jesus Christ to people.

Amen !..same.