The Potter and His clay & El Elyon

[Molly]

From these verses, it basically says it is possible to do something God never planned, or even entered His mind?

Exactly Zeek, God never planned these things, He put laws into place so these things would not happen if man would but obey.
All the crap in this world came into place because of MANS disobedience not because God planned all the crap in the world.

:thumbsup:

[sheila]

 
  Most certainly! Especially when you consider he created

  an adversary that possessed a mind not his own,and that also

contained within it's nature all that is in opposition to him.

   a liar from the beginning,a mankiller from the beginning


   but,He knows what is hidden in darkness.he knows what is in

   Him...therefore he knows what is not in Him.

    he knows there is love, he knows there is no love

    he knows there is peace,he knows there is no peace

    he knows there is righteousness,he knows there is no

    righteousness

  he knows there is mercy,he knows there is mercilessness

  he knows there is the law of love,he knows there is

  lawlessness

   he knows there is good in him, he knows there is no goodness

   he knows there is life, he knows there is no life

   he knows what is in his heart and mind, he knows what is

  not in his heart and mind

                            sheila

[bobf]

Match these scriptures up with what I have been saying and what some of you have been saying, and then ask yourselves which understanding of God who is LOVE/CHARITY follows after CHARITY.

So how can a God who is love and thinketh NO evil, also be a God who planned out all the evil in this world? For a plan only comes by way of thinking.

When God thinks to use evil for good, God is thinking no evil.

According to your reasoning, if God intended evil to occur at any time it would be evil.  Yet the scriptures show that God  intended Christ to suffer and that God requires Christ's disciples to suffer.  Christ was made a little lower than the angels FOR the suffering of death.  Even here unto are ye CALLED... to suffer as Christ suffered.

Both of those sufferings were the endurance of evil.  God ordained that as a BLESSSING.


Christ's Suffering

• Mark 8:31 And he began to teach them, that the Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders, and [of] the chief priests, and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again.

<br>

• Mark 9:12 And he answered and told them, Elias verily cometh first, and restoreth all things; and how it is written of the Son of man, that he must suffer many things, and be set at nought.

<br>

• Luke 9:22 Saying, The Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be slain, and be raised the third day.

<br>

• Luke 17:25 But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation.

<br>

• Luke 24:46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day.

<br>

• Acts 3:18 But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.

<br>

• Acts 26:23 That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.

<br>

• Hebrews 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

<br>

• Luke 24:26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory.

<br>

• Acts 17:3 Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ.

<br>

• Hebrews 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered.

Diciples' Suffering

• Acts 5:41 And they departed from the presence of the council, rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer shame for his name.

<br>

• Acts 9:16 For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.

<br>

• Romans 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

<br>

• Phillipains 1:29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake.

<br>

• 1 Thesselonians 3:4 For verily, when we were with you, we told you before that we should suffer tribulation; even as it came to pass, and ye know.

<br>

• 2 Thesselonians 1:4 So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure: 2 Thesselonians 1:5 Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer.

<br>

• 2 Timothy 2:12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us.

<br>

• 2 Timothy 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

<br>

• 1 Peter 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps.

<br>

[peacemaker]

From these verses, it basically says it is possible to do something God never planned, or even entered His mind?

Exactly Zeek, God never planned these things, He put laws into place so these things would not happen if man would but obey.
All the crap in this world came into place because of MANS disobedience not because God planned all the crap in the world.

Many have been subjected to a large collection of futilities (i.e. crap) that clutter their minds.
But we are free from their bondage, no longer slaves to corruption!

peacemaker

[CHB]

How did Christ know light before there was darkness? How did Christ know good before there was evil?

Hi Pneuma,

You ask how could Christ know good before there was evil, or light from darkness?  I believe it is because it was Christ who created it all. Since it was Christ who was our creator he would know all of these things.

CHB

[bobf]

Because this world is NOT yet His world, the kingdoms of this world are NOT yet the kingdoms of Christ. The whole world right now lieth in wickedness. His WILL is not YET being done on earth.

Hand waving Scott.

1. Suppose I can prevent a murder at no danger to myself.  Suppose I can save someone from drowning at no danger to myself.  Suppose I don't.   Can my defense be "The world is not my kingdom" so that's why I let the guy drown and the murder take place?

2. God rules in the kingdom of men.  Daniel 4.

3. God gave permission to Satan to harm Job yet limited the amount of harm he could do.  So God does rule over Satan and over men, but not in the sense that their hearts have become right and in harmony with God.

4. Pilate had no authority to harm Christ except it was given to him by God.

Then why did He not save Adam from death when Adam disobeyed? God put laws in place, MAN broke those laws, brought sin and death into the world, and the whole world suffers because of mans disobedience.

Apples and oranges.  Adam's death was the result of Adam's sin.  The child who is about to become the victim of the pedophile did not sin.

The freedom was there BEFORE the commandment was broken, after it was broken man became a SLAVE unto sin and death. The pedophile and murder are of the EVIL ONE not of God. It is NOT Gods doing it is the EVIL ONES doing.

The pedophiles evil is no excuse for not saving the innocent child.

Because this world is NOT yet His world, the kingdoms of this world are NOT yet the kingdoms of Christ. The whole world right now lieth in wickedness. His WILL is not YET being done on earth.

Then why or how did He send an angel to save the disciples from prison?

God upholds His laws brother...

The child isn't the one breaking the laws.

Zeek pointed out (thanks Zeek) some scriptures that give answer to these question bro, here is one such that gives answer to the child in the hands of the pedophile.

Jeremiah 19:5
They have built the high places of Baal to burn their sons in the fire as offerings to Baal—something I, God (Creator of everything from Beginning to End) did not command or mention, nor did it enter my mind.

That's actually a good argument in that it says "nor did it enter my mind".

But that verse does nothing to address my question by explaining WHY God did not stop them from killing their kids.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: I think He is able to do all of these things because He knew the end from the beginning. He gave me a simple way to understand this awhile back; I think I shared it, not sure.

Anyway, as I was driving, He showed me an overview of it, and compared it to our life and walk. I was bound by time, whereas He was watching from a point NOT bound by time. So it was easy for Him to see beyond where I was and put up roadblocks, detours, ect. so that although it seemed I was making the choices in my time limitation, really He was doing what was necessary to bring about the end result He desired.

I think He did exactly the same thing with Adam and Eve. He uses the adversary to put up the roadblocks, detours, ect., all the while preparing the path He would have us to walk "ahead of us". Blessings....

[pneuma]

Match these scriptures up with what I have been saying and what some of you have been saying, and then ask yourselves which understanding of God who is LOVE/CHARITY follows after CHARITY.

So how can a God who is love and thinketh NO evil, also be a God who planned out all the evil in this world? For a plan only comes by way of thinking.

When God thinks to use evil for good, God is thinking no evil.

According to your reasoning, if God intended evil to occur at any time it would be evil.  Yet the scriptures show that God  intended Christ to suffer and that God requires Christ's disciples to suffer.  Christ was made a little lower than the angels FOR the suffering of death.  Even here unto are ye CALLED... to suffer as Christ suffered.

Both of those sufferings were the endurance of evil.  God ordained that as a BLESSSING.


Christ's Suffering

• Mark 8:31 And he began to teach them, that the Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders, and [of] the chief priests, and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again.

<br>

• Mark 9:12 And he answered and told them, Elias verily cometh first, and restoreth all things; and how it is written of the Son of man, that he must suffer many things, and be set at nought.

<br>

• Luke 9:22 Saying, The Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be slain, and be raised the third day.

<br>

• Luke 17:25 But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation.

<br>

• Luke 24:46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day.

<br>

• Acts 3:18 But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.

<br>

• Acts 26:23 That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.

<br>

• Hebrews 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

<br>

• Luke 24:26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory.

<br>

• Acts 17:3 Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ.

<br>

• Hebrews 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered.

Diciples' Suffering

• Acts 5:41 And they departed from the presence of the council, rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer shame for his name.

<br>

• Acts 9:16 For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.

<br>

• Romans 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

<br>

• Phillipains 1:29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake.

<br>

• 1 Thesselonians 3:4 For verily, when we were with you, we told you before that we should suffer tribulation; even as it came to pass, and ye know.

<br>

• 2 Thesselonians 1:4 So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure: 2 Thesselonians 1:5 Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer.

<br>

• 2 Timothy 2:12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us.

<br>

• 2 Timothy 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

<br>

• 1 Peter 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps.

<br>

There is a difference between sufferings brother, Christ and us are to suffer for rightiousness sake not suffer as do EVIL doers.

[pneuma]

How did Christ know light before there was darkness? How did Christ know good before there was evil?

Hi Pneuma,

You ask how could Christ know good before there was evil, or light from darkness?  I believe it is because it was Christ who created it all. Since it was Christ who was our creator he would know all of these things.

CHB

Than He did not have to learn anything, which goes against scripture.

[pneuma]

Because this world is NOT yet His world, the kingdoms of this world are NOT yet the kingdoms of Christ. The whole world right now lieth in wickedness. His WILL is not YET being done on earth.

Hand waving Scott.

1. Suppose I can prevent a murder at no danger to myself.  Suppose I can save someone from drowning at no danger to myself.  Suppose I don't.   Can my defense be "The world is not my kingdom" so that's why I let the guy drown and the murder take place?

2. God rules in the kingdom of men.  Daniel 4.

3. God gave permission to Satan to harm Job yet limited the amount of harm he could do.  So God does rule over Satan and over men, but not in the sense that their hearts have become right and in harmony with God.

4. Pilate had no authority to harm Christ except it was given to him by God.

Then why did He not save Adam from death when Adam disobeyed? God put laws in place, MAN broke those laws, brought sin and death into the world, and the whole world suffers because of mans disobedience.

Apples and oranges.  Adam's death was the result of Adam's sin.  The child who is about to become the victim of the pedophile did not sin.

The freedom was there BEFORE the commandment was broken, after it was broken man became a SLAVE unto sin and death. The pedophile and murder are of the EVIL ONE not of God. It is NOT Gods doing it is the EVIL ONES doing.

The pedophiles evil is no excuse for not saving the innocent child.

Because this world is NOT yet His world, the kingdoms of this world are NOT yet the kingdoms of Christ. The whole world right now lieth in wickedness. His WILL is not YET being done on earth.

Then why or how did He send an angel to save the disciples from prison?

God upholds His laws brother...

The child isn't the one breaking the laws.

Zeek pointed out (thanks Zeek) some scriptures that give answer to these question bro, here is one such that gives answer to the child in the hands of the pedophile.

Jeremiah 19:5
They have built the high places of Baal to burn their sons in the fire as offerings to Baal—something I, God (Creator of everything from Beginning to End) did not command or mention, nor did it enter my mind.

That's actually a good argument in that it says "nor did it enter my mind".

But that verse does nothing to address my question by explaining WHY God did not stop them from killing their kids.

No it is not hand waving brother, do you not see in your posts that you sound like those who say the Lord has delayed His comming, everthing continues just like it has from the beginning?

What you are basically asking me brother is to explain to you why the Lord has delayed His comming.

[pneuma]

:cloud9: I think He is able to do all of these things because He knew the end from the beginning. He gave me a simple way to understand this awhile back; I think I shared it, not sure.

Anyway, as I was driving, He showed me an overview of it, and compared it to our life and walk. I was bound by time, whereas He was watching from a point NOT bound by time. So it was easy for Him to see beyond where I was and put up roadblocks, detours, ect. so that although it seemed I was making the choices in my time limitation, really He was doing what was necessary to bring about the end result He desired.

I think He did exactly the same thing with Adam and Eve. He uses the adversary to put up the roadblocks, detours, ect., all the while preparing the path He would have us to walk "ahead of us". Blessings....

Sis do you not see those road blocks as Gods weaving of the choices WE make?

I have no problem with the idea that God has made provisions for us when we err, my problem is with God planning out our error.

Big, big difference to me.

[bobf]

There is a difference between sufferings brother, Christ and us are to suffer for rightiousness sake not suffer as do EVIL doers.

Of course Scott but that was not the point.  God sent Christ into the world to experiennce evil for His benefit and our beneift.  God intended that evil to take place though God did not approve of it.

[Cardinal]

:cloud9: I think He is able to do all of these things because He knew the end from the beginning. He gave me a simple way to understand this awhile back; I think I shared it, not sure.

Anyway, as I was driving, He showed me an overview of it, and compared it to our life and walk. I was bound by time, whereas He was watching from a point NOT bound by time. So it was easy for Him to see beyond where I was and put up roadblocks, detours, ect. so that although it seemed I was making the choices in my time limitation, really He was doing what was necessary to bring about the end result He desired.

I think He did exactly the same thing with Adam and Eve. He uses the adversary to put up the roadblocks, detours, ect., all the while preparing the path He would have us to walk "ahead of us". Blessings....

Sis do you not see those road blocks as Gods weaving of the choices WE make?

I have no problem with the idea that God has made provisions for us when we err, my problem is with God planning out our error.

Big, big difference to me.

:cloud9: YES, that is what I was trying to communicate.  :thumbsup: Blessings....

[bobf]

What you are basically asking me brother is to explain to you why the Lord has delayed His comming.

I'm not taling about why doesn't Christ come or why doesn't God put an end to evil.  I'm asking why God does not save the child which can be done with or without putting down evil and which God HAS done in certain instances.

God has SOME GOOD REASON for not saving the child.  God has SOME GOOD REASON for allowing the evil to play out.

We know of God's good reason for allowing evil to play out in some instances:

In the case of Christ it was because God WANTED CHRIST TO SUFFER AND DIE for our sins.  That was God's good reason to allow that evil to play out.
In the case of Christ's disciples God WANTED AND WANTS us to SUFFER as Christ suffered.  That was & is God's good reason to allow tat evil to play out.

In the case of the child I do not know God's good reason.  I only know that God must have one.

If God has a good reason for allowing these evils to play out while they are occuring (by not intervening) then God can just as easily have a good reason for the same evils occuring in the first place.

No it is not hand waving brother

It is and  I showed why.  Such a "reason" would NEVER stand up in any just court of law.  I could have prevented it but I didn't because I am not king of the world.  Sorry but that is not a reason.

Aside from that it is not even true in the sense that God HAS intervened in that fashion.

[pneuma]

There is a difference between sufferings brother, Christ and us are to suffer for rightiousness sake not suffer as do EVIL doers.

Of course Scott but that was not the point.  God sent Christ into the world to experiennce evil for His benefit and our beneift.  God intended that evil to take place though God did not approve of it.

Bob we are talking about TWO different things.

Gods PLAN/WAY did NOT include mans disobedience and death, but since man has corrupted himself God weaves mans EVIL in order to get man OUT OF DEATH and back into His PLAN/WAY.

From what I am reading of what you have been saying is you are mixing Gods PLAN/WAY up with Gods WEAVING and calling them the SAME thing.

[jabcat]

IMO, God doesn't plan our error, but He does have a plan that includes evil, as scripture teaches.    I believe He does present scenarios, life situations, within which we're required to choose...and by doing so, including His discipline for when we do err...in the process, conforming our will to His, and shaping us into His likeness.  In that regard, as I understand it, He does send the evil to test and purify us.    However, always, He wants us to choose the good, and through His tuteledge and Spirit, enables us to increasingly do so.  My  :2c:.  I believe, still God directing our steps.  He apparently doesn't want off the hook, because as He says in Isaiah, He sends evil...and in the NT, that He blinds, and that HE chooses.  Seems it's us that doesn't understand and often try to explain it away...I've done it, because I either didn't get it, or it made me too uncomfortable.

[pneuma]

I'm not taling about why doesn't Christ come or why doesn't God put an end to evil.  I'm asking why God does not save the child which can be done with or without putting down evil and which God HAS done in certain instances.

They are the same question brother, because when Christ comes and sets up His kingdom the child will be saved.

And you asking why he is not saved now, and I keep telling you it because the kingdoms of this world are not YET the kingdoms of Christ.

[pneuma]

It is and  I showed why.  Such a "reason" would NEVER stand up in any just court of law.  I could have prevented it but I didn't because I am not king of the world.  Sorry but that is not a reason.

Try going into another country and imposing your laws on that country brother and then tell me such a reason would never stand up in court. We are sojourners in this country brother, this country is NOT ours.

Aside from that it is not even true in the sense that God HAS intervened in that fashion.

Yes through weaving.

[pneuma]

:cloud9: I think He is able to do all of these things because He knew the end from the beginning. He gave me a simple way to understand this awhile back; I think I shared it, not sure.

Anyway, as I was driving, He showed me an overview of it, and compared it to our life and walk. I was bound by time, whereas He was watching from a point NOT bound by time. So it was easy for Him to see beyond where I was and put up roadblocks, detours, ect. so that although it seemed I was making the choices in my time limitation, really He was doing what was necessary to bring about the end result He desired.

I think He did exactly the same thing with Adam and Eve. He uses the adversary to put up the roadblocks, detours, ect., all the while preparing the path He would have us to walk "ahead of us". Blessings....

Sis do you not see those road blocks as Gods weaving of the choices WE make?

I have no problem with the idea that God has made provisions for us when we err, my problem is with God planning out our error.

Big, big difference to me.

:cloud9: YES, that is what I was trying to communicate.  :thumbsup: Blessings....

:thumbsup:

[bobf]

Bob we are talking about TWO different things.

Gods PLAN/WAY did NOT include mans disobedience and death, but since man has corrupted himself God weaves mans EVIL in order to get man OUT OF DEATH and back into His PLAN/WAY.

From what I am reading of what you have been saying is you are mixing Gods PLAN/WAY up with Gods WEAVING and calling them the SAME thing.

I'm not calling them the same, I'm saying both are true. God both intended it and weaved it to good.

If you weave evil into good it means you do not intend for the evil to occur but given that it occurs you manage to bring about a blessing from the evil.  So there is the difference.  I understand the difference.  I believe God is doing both.  Both intending the evil to occurn AND weaving the evil into good, though never approving of the evil being done.

I you only weave evil into good then you must be powerless to prevent the evil.  Otherwise you would prevent the evil if you could.  I you can prevent the evil and don't you CHOOSE for the evil to play out.

And God says that He intended for that evil to play out since God says He sent Christ into the world TO DIE.  It does not say God intended Christ TO NOT DIE but once Christ died God managed to weave it into good.  It says "For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done".

[pneuma]

IMO, God doesn't plan our error, but He does have a plan that includes evil, as scripture teaches.    I believe He does present scenarios, life situations, within which we're required to choose...and by doing so, including His discipline for when we do err...in the process, conforming our will to His, and shaping us into His likeness.  In that regard, as I understand it, He does send the evil to test and purify us.  Always, He wants us to choose the good, and through His tuteledge and Spirit, enables us to increasingly do so.  My  :2c:.  I believe, still God directing our steps. 

Jab the only thing I would change in what you said is "He does have a plan that includes evil".

I would say God made provisions for the EVILS that man brought into the world, weaving those EVILS for good.

[jabcat]

Jab the only thing I would change

Well, don't   :icon_joker:

Wow, we're pretty close on this one  :laughing7: :thumbsup:....I added this though, and  (unfortunately for our agreement level (:winkgrin:) I still believe it...He apparently doesn't want off the hook, because as He says in Isaiah, He sends evil...and in the NT, that He blinds, and that HE chooses, creates vessels of dishonor (that He will reconcile) etc.  Sometimes I haven't understood that and have even tried to explain it away...I've done it, perhaps because I either didn't get it, or it made me too uncomfortable, etc.  In His "bringing me out", this has been one of the painful ones He's dealt with me on...my poor old orthodox eyes have really struggled with this one :sweat:...Sometimes I'm a slow study  :mblush:

[pneuma]

Bob we are talking about TWO different things.

Gods PLAN/WAY did NOT include mans disobedience and death, but since man has corrupted himself God weaves mans EVIL in order to get man OUT OF DEATH and back into His PLAN/WAY.

From what I am reading of what you have been saying is you are mixing Gods PLAN/WAY up with Gods WEAVING and calling them the SAME thing.

I'm not calling them the same, I'm saying both are true. God both intended it and weaved it to good.

If you weave evil into good it means you do not intend for the evil to occur but given that it occurs you manage to bring about a blessing from the evil.  So there is the difference.  I understand the difference.  I believe God is doing both.  Both intending the evil to occurn AND weaving the evil into good, though never approving of the evil being done.

I you only weave evil into good then you must be powerless to prevent the evil.  Otherwise you would prevent the evil if you could.  I you can prevent the evil and don't you CHOOSE for the evil to play out.

And God says that He intended for that evil to play out since God says He sent Christ into the world TO DIE.  It does not say God intended Christ TO NOT DIE but once Christ died God managed to weave it into good.  It says "For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done".

Bob you are mixing them up brother, every time you bring Christ death into the equasion you are speaking of what took place AFTER mans disobedience.

God did NOT want to sacrifice His son brother, but because man would NOT obey His voice God had to do that which He NEVER intended in the first place.





KJV
Jer 7:22 For I spoke not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices: Jer 7:23 But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you.


First thing I would point out is God gave the Law written in stone BEFORE He gave the commands concerning burnt offerings and sacrifices.

In the day God brought the people out of Egypt He gave commands for us to OBEY HIS VOICE but the people would not listen to OBEY HIS VOICE so God commanded burnt offerings and sacrifices for the people.

If the people had OBEYED HIS VOICE then there would have been no need of burnt offerings and sacrifices. But because of the peoples disobedience God instituted/made provision/weaved a way for man to come before Him in repentance by burnt offerings and sacrifices.

We see this very principal brought out in

1 Samuel 15:22
22 And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.


God has far more delight in our obedience then He has in us having to offer up burnt offerings and sacrifices for our sins. If we OBEY Him we have no need of sacrifices.



And I think the reason God commanded these sacrifices and offerings was so that the people would see what a heinous act it was that they must slay an innocent life for their own sinful ways.

Ezekiel 20:25
25 Wherefore I gave them also statutes that were not good, and judgments whereby they should not live.

[jabcat]

Jesus was slain FROM THE FOUNDATION of the world 

[bobf]

Try going into another country and imposing your laws on that country brother and then tell me such a reason would never stand up in court. We are sojourners in this country brother, this country is NOT ours.

I'm talking about righteous justice Scott, not unust court systems.  I'm asking, under what form of righteous justice could God possibly not save an innocent child from a pedophile based on the excuse "I'm not yet king of this world" ?  That excuse would  not stand up under any somewhat-just court system in this world.  Furthermore God has been known to intervene and save some while God is not yet king of this world.

Yes through weaving.

Then why does God not "weave" the child likewise into safety from the pedophile? God must have some good reason.  God CHOSES not to weave the child into safety in many cases.