Mk 9.43

[claypot]

Hey Gang, I need some help finding some articles on these words especially about what the worm is and so on........... Thanks in advance, cp

And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: {offend...: or, cause thee to offend}  44  Where their  worm  dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.  45  And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: {offend...: or, cause thee to offend}  46  Where their  worm  dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.  47  And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: {offend...: or, cause thee to offend}  48  Where their  worm  dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. mk9.43

[Taffy]

sorry CP this is a cand p ..made some months ago...Gehenna fire in particular may cause traditionalists to stumble ,and Im afraid that toooooooooo many dont see Christs words as SPIRIT and Life , But   see in many places death and ET.

Then we have ,God is a Consuming FIRE , and terms such as Punishment ,destruction etc...they seem to concoct all this into ,the WICKED gets singed to a Cinder for ever and ever , while the Righteous Dwell in the Clouds ,forever immortal.

what gets destroyed as Going through the Flames is the carnal mind \heart,( soul)if you will, our thought Process ,

does that perish, well yes it does ,....our Minds are renewed,as is the soul which never dies.

what persihes is Carnality..to be carnal minded is DEATH

scripture speaks of those who SPEAK from the Grave(tombs) ,... that is those who dwell after law and remain DEAD in their sins,...it is this which needs to perish....


Just consider this verse  and those which preceed by comparison...

Ive heard it mentioned that all sin begins in the Heart , so may I ask, what uses is cutting off your hands feet and plucking out your eye, dont  you treat the Cause ? some say Hyperbole, I say no, Christ words are Spirit

Mar 9:42

the worm that dieth not, a C and P made to WW

Job 25:6 How much less man, [that is] a worm?((rimmah=maggot) and the son of man, [which is] a worm (towla=crimson worm)

Two types

A maggot and a Worm...

towla

When the female of the scarlet worm species was ready to give birth to her young, she would attach her body to the trunk of a tree, fixing herself so firmly and permanently that she would never leave again. The eggs deposited beneath her body were thus protected until the larvae were hatched and able to enter their own life cycle. As the mother died, the crimson fluid stained her body and the surrounding wood. From the dead bodies of such female scarlet worms, the commercial scarlet dyes of antiquity were extracted. What a picture this gives of Christ, dying on the tree, shedding his precious blood that he might 'bring many sons unto glory' (Hbr 2:10)! He died for us, that we might live through him! Psa 22:6 describes such a worm and gives us this picture of Christ. (cf. Isa 1:18)" (Henry Morris. Biblical Basis for Modern Science, Baker Book House, 1985, p. 73)

JUST TO ADD CP

I see hands , feet and the eye as works of the flesh\LAW,[ way of life] the eye  [understanding] which needs to perish, better is the LIFE of KNOWING HIM than the shame of NOT

[claypot]

Good stuff Taf, at least what I can understand!

I see Christs words as spirit but I am having a hard time explaining to someone else what the worm is, spiritually speaking.

The fire that is not quenched seems to me to be God Himself.

What is this worm that dies not? The carnal nature dies doesn't it?

cp

[rosered]

   hey cp ,good question , I ahve also  searched that out  a long time ago and forgot   most of it  :mblush:

good post   n Bro G ,,

  I am reminded that   Jacob is  called ''the worm ''    before being Changed to Israel   sort of like our  process or change
  means Jacob = "heel holder" or "supplanter"

1) son of Isaac, grandson of Abraham, and father of the 12 patriarchs of the tribes of Israel


and Israel = "God prevails"

1) the second name for Jacob given to him by God after his wrestling with the angel at Peniel

2) the name of the descendants and the nation of the descendants of Jacob

a) the name of the nation until the death of Solomon and the split

b) the name used and given to the northern kingdom consisting of the 10 tribes under Jeroboam; the southern kingdom was known as Judah

c) the name of the nation after the return from exile


here is the verse
to me the whole chapter is describing Jesus coming ,  a prophecy  and fulfilling  in the new testament :HeartThrob:
Isa 41:14 Fear not, thou worm/towla`
Jacob, [and] ye men of Israel; I will help thee, saith the LORD, and thy redeemer, the Holy One of Israel.  

  Taffy done a good job  explaining the   two types of  worms  :thumbsup:
good to see ya posting again bro Taff :winkgrin:

 :HeartThrob: rose

[claypot]

But Rose, what about my questions?

What is this worm that dies not? The carnal nature dies doesn't it?

I don't think I'm really hearing what you and Taff are saying.

Jacob is the worm?

cp

[Taffy]

Good addition Rose
:thumbsup: :icon_flower: :icon_flower:
:icon_flower:
Job 25:6 How much less man, [that is] a worm?[ rimmah ] and the son of man, [which is] a worm [Towla]?

I see  HIM in ALL men ,But NOT yet revealed :icon_flower:
The worm [Towla ]In us NEVER dies, Hes the seed , the worm[ maggot]
perishes as does all flesh, But is  CHANGED , through Death, so even though the WORM  being  the Maggot,  Never Dies.,  likened to  the [butter]fly by being Transformed.

:icon_flower:

[Zeek]

Jer 23:40

And I will bring an everlasting reproach upon you, and a perpetual shame, which shall not be forgotten.

[rosered]

Good addition Rose
:thumbsup: :icon_flower: :icon_flower:
:icon_flower:
Job 25:6 How much less man, [that is] a worm?[ rimmah ] and the son of man, [which is] a worm [Towla]?

I see  HIM in ALL men ,But NOT yet revealed :icon_flower:
The worm [Towla ]In us NEVER dies, Hes the seed , the worm[ maggot]
perishes as does all flesh, But is  CHANGED , through Death, so even though the WORM  being  the Maggot,  Never Dies.,  likened to  the butterfly by being Transformed.

:icon_flower:

you said it better than I  Taff !

But Rose, what about my questions?

What is this worm that dies not? The carnal nature dies doesn't it?

I don't think I'm really hearing what you and Taff are saying.

Jacob is the worm?

cp

  Sorry cp  , I do struggle to  be clear  brother ..
:HeartThrob:

Isa 66:23   And it shall come to pass, [that] from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD. 

Isa 66:24   And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh. 


  Jesus was just fulfilling this prochecy here  by speaking it  will continue   
was , is and is to come ,
  to me its the wrath of man and their anger that wont  be put out and will be hated  being in the flesh 
like the wars  and divisions and all the anti  christ hatered that continues  while  mans is in the flesh realm ..  the seen and the unseen as   Taff was  saying ..

  I still see it  , but that is not what we  are anylonger , there is a warning not to get tangled back into that  snare  of  the world ..

   I do not know how to explain it ,, sorry bro , I   should bow out of this , my words escape  me  :sigh:

  hopefully others can help you better than me  :HeartThrob:  love rose

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: He gave me a vision/dream once of the tongue of man and it had LIVING worms in it, both black and white ones. I think this is:

Pr 18:21 - Death and life are in the power of the tongue: and they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof.

[claypot]

Rose, you're a gem. Thanks for your patience.

Taff you're coming through a bit more. You got me thinking about losing our lives to save them.

Jesus was talking to John with these words of worms that die not. He is talking to us, each of us.

And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: {offend...: or, cause thee to offend}  44  Where their  worm  dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.  45  And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: {offend...: or, cause thee to offend}  46  Where their  worm  dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.  47  And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: {offend...: or, cause thee to offend}  48  Where their  worm  dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. mk9.43

Are you saying the worm does not die, it is changed like the butterfly that was mentioned? A metamorphosis?

And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning didst lay the foundation of the earth, And the heavens are the works of thy hands:  11  They shall perish; but thou continuest: And they all shall wax old as doth a garment;  12  And as a mantle shalt thou roll them up, As a garment, and they shall be changedheb1.10

cp

[Taffy]

Are you saying the worm does not die, it is changed like the butterfly that was mentioned? A metamorphosis?

yes  for mine  :icon_flower: Losing Life to gain it

muliti layered??


As  Rosie mentioned, the flesh of Man is their WRATH which doesnt  WORK  the righteousness of GOD, the flesh of Men remains in  Wrath ,and always WILL,while it remains IN the Flesh,

as we Know -His Fire \ Wrath Cleanses , and Makes Righteous

Psa 21:9 Thou shalt make them as a fiery oven in the time of thine anger: the LORD shall swallow them up in his wrath, and the fire shall devour them. 

[Taffy]

good vision Card, Both worms are LIVING , althou one Dead to law and Darkened, the other alive to Life , both bearing WITNESS to the Truth,Great IS THE DAY of the MORN STAR rising , The DAY in WHICH WE " LIVE" :icon_flower:  THROUGH DEATH COMES LIFE :icon_flower: :HeartThrob: twelve hours of DAY and  of Night consist of ONE ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^  DAY ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ and a AWESOME DAY , HE IS

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Thanks Taff......I see more now of what He was trying to show me with what you said here.........Blessings....

[Chris]

Job 25:6  How much less man, that is a worm? and the son of man, which is a worm?

Psa 22:6  But I am a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised of the people.

Seems to me that "the worm" that "dieth not" is he that is still "dead in sin".

The son OF MAN, rather than the son OF GOD!  :sigh:

like you said... man's carnal nature!

Not that it won't ever die... but until it DOES DIE, it suffers the wrath of God - as the wrath of God abides upon them that believe not.

"...Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth..."  :gangel:

The worm MUST DIE!!  :thumbsup: (but some are trying very hard NOT TOO!  :winkgrin:)

[Chris]

sorry CP this is a cand p ..made some months ago...Gehenna fire in particular may cause traditionalists to stumble ,and Im afraid that toooooooooo many dont see Christs words as SPIRIT and Life , But   see in many places death and ET.

Then we have ,God is a Consuming FIRE , and terms such as Punishment ,destruction etc...they seem to concoct all this into ,the WICKED gets singed to a Cinder for ever and ever , while the Righteous Dwell in the Clouds ,forever immortal.

what gets destroyed as Going through the Flames is the carnal mind \heart,( soul)if you will, our thought Process ,

does that perish, well yes it does ,....our Minds are renewed,as is the soul which never dies.

what persihes is Carnality..to be carnal minded is DEATH

scripture speaks of those who SPEAK from the Grave(tombs) ,... that is those who dwell after law and remain DEAD in their sins,...it is this which needs to perish....


Just consider this verse  and those which preceed by comparison...

Ive heard it mentioned that all sin begins in the Heart , so may I ask, what uses is cutting off your hands feet and plucking out your eye, dont  you treat the Cause ? some say Hyperbole, I say no, Christ words are Spirit

Mar 9:42

the worm that dieth not, a C and P made to WW

Job 25:6 How much less man, [that is] a worm?((rimmah=maggot) and the son of man, [which is] a worm (towla=crimson worm)

Two types

A maggot and a Worm...

towla

When the female of the scarlet worm species was ready to give birth to her young, she would attach her body to the trunk of a tree, fixing herself so firmly and permanently that she would never leave again. The eggs deposited beneath her body were thus protected until the larvae were hatched and able to enter their own life cycle. As the mother died, the crimson fluid stained her body and the surrounding wood. From the dead bodies of such female scarlet worms, the commercial scarlet dyes of antiquity were extracted. What a picture this gives of Christ, dying on the tree, shedding his precious blood that he might 'bring many sons unto glory' (Hbr 2:10)! He died for us, that we might live through him! Psa 22:6 describes such a worm and gives us this picture of Christ. (cf. Isa 1:18)" (Henry Morris. Biblical Basis for Modern Science, Baker Book House, 1985, p. 73)

What a beautiful picture!!! :thumbsup:

Maggots eat only the flesh of the DEAD,then eventually it CHANGES into a fly....IT DOESNT DIE.

The transformation of moving from Death to LIFE as is the Resurrection unto LIFE

JUST TO ADD CP

I see hands , feet and the eye as works of the flesh\LAW,[ way of life] the eye  [understanding] which needs to perish, better is the LIFE of KNOWING HIM than the shame of NOT

COOL!! VERY INTERESTING!!!!   :icon_flower:

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: That IS cool, Taff! Somehow I missed that post today.  :thumbsup: Glad to see you back posting some. So much life when all the streams are together flowing as one river! Blessings....

[Pierac]

Mar 9:43  If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off! It is better for you to enter into life crippled than to have two hands and go into hell,55 to the unquenchable fire. 56
Mar 9:44  (TEXT OMITTED)
Mar 9:45  If your foot causes you to sin, cut it off! It is better to enter life lame than to have57 two feet and be thrown into hell.58
Mar 9:46  (TEXT OMITTED)
Mar 9:47  If your eye causes you to sin, tear it out!59 It is better to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye than to have60 two eyes and be thrown into hell,
Mar 9:48  where their worm never dies and the fire is never quenched.

55 sn The word translated hell is "Gehenna" (γέεννα, geenna), a Greek transliteration of the Hebrew words ge hinnom ("Valley of Hinnom"). This was the valley along the south side of Jerusalem. In OT times it was used for human sacrifices to the pagan god Molech (cf. Jer_7:31; Jer_19:5-6; Jer_32:35), and it came to be used as a place where human excrement and rubbish were disposed of and burned. In the intertestamental period, it came to be used symbolically as the place of divine punishment (cf. 1 En. 27:2, 90:26; 4 Ezra 7:36). This Greek term also occurs in Mar_9:45; Mar_9:47.

56 tc Most later MSS have Mar_9:44 here and Mar_9:46 after Mar_9:45; "where their worm never dies and the fire is never quenched" (identical with Mar_9:48). Verses Mar_9:44, and Mar_9:46 and are present in A D Θ Ë13 Ï lat syp,h, but lacking in important Alexandrian MSS and several others (א B C L W Δ Ψ 0274 Ë1 28 565 892 2427 pc co). This appears to be a scribal addition from Mar_9:48 and is almost certainly not an original part of the Greek text of Mark. The present translation follows NA27 in omitting the verse number, a procedure also followed by a number of other modern translations.

Took out two worms!

Paul

[claypot]

And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: {offend...: or, cause thee to offend}  44  Where their  worm  dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.  45  And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: {offend...: or, cause thee to offend}  46  Where their  worm  dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.  47  And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: {offend...: or, cause thee to offend}  48  Where their  worm  dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. mk9.43

OK, here I go with my wacky thoughts.........

If your hand offend you (old man/natural man) cut it off (put off the old man). Better to enter life with a weak, but pure, spiritual life than to enter (hell) trying to live a carnal/spiritual life where the worm (soul?) never dies and God never gives up.

It must be 'hell' to go one on one with God!

cp

[Taffy]

Shucks Paul..if Id Only Known Bro .... :bigGrin: just kiddin :icon_king:

but surely the principle is the same?

[Taffy]

If your hand offend you (old man/natural man) cut it off (put off the old man). Better to enter life with a weak, but pure, spiritual life than to enter (hell) trying to live a carnal/spiritual life where the worm (soul?) never dies and God never gives up.

theres the WORKS of HIS hands , through GRACE befitting to HIM and there are those which work the law..DEATH

the Hands  relate always to that which WORK, the feet are OUR walk and eyes our UNDERSTANDING .again pertain to me of Law V Grace and Truth CP

Psa 135:15 The idols of the heathen [are] silver and gold, the work of men's hands ,... maybe Tarnished GOLD?

By Two or three witnesses,,could that be ALSO ???? Law verses Grace..and that of the Tabernacle which speaks always of Three.???

so Tis BETTER to enter Life through Knowing OUR LORD than the the long way Home , to that of shame. :icon_flower:

Stick within the principles Scripture speaks of Cp..its always the same message...well for mine.

[Beloved Servant]

The worms and fire are the endless torment resulting from the continual heaping of dung and refuse.
In my opinion.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: I agree Taff........it never ceases to amaze me how many myriads of myriads of ways He has managed to say the same things over and over and over again........Blessings....

[Zeek]

Eze 16:61 Then thou shalt remember thy ways, and be ashamed, when thou shalt receive thy sisters, thine elder and thy younger: and I will give them unto thee for daughters, but not by thy covenant.

Eze 16:62 And I will establish my covenant with thee; and thou shalt know that I [am] the LORD:

Eze 16:63 That thou mayest remember, and be confounded, and never open thy mouth any more because of thy shame, when I am pacified toward thee for all that thou hast done, saith the Lord GOD.

[Taffy]

:cloud9: I agree Taff........it never ceases to amaze me how many myriads of myriads of ways He has managed to say the same things over and over and over again........Blessings....

AMEN  sis AMEN. :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower:
:cloud9:

[Taffy]

Eze 16:61 Then thou shalt remember thy ways, and be ashamed, when thou shalt receive thy sisters, thine elder and thy younger: and I will give them unto thee for daughters, but not by thy covenant.

Eze 16:62 And I will establish my covenant with thee; and thou shalt know that I [am] the LORD:

Eze 16:63 That thou mayest remember, and be confounded, and never open thy mouth any more because of thy shame, when I am pacified toward thee for all that thou hast done, saith the Lord GOD.

:icon_flower: