Incompatable Theology -? -

[VineBranch]

Has anyone found a theology, or philosophy, other than the obvious cult ones, which is incompatible with UR.  Is there a way of thinking which violates UR.  I've been thinking about this and I can't find one:  does it, or do they exist?

[ded2daworld]

How about mainstream christianity and catholicism?

[Molly]

What is a cult?   I was listening to a garden variety preacher on the radio this morning.  He was saying that all cults refuse to enter into God's grace.   They are still living under law, however they may define that.

This refusal to live under the grace of God binds man from every side, through fear and threats.   This is not to say we are to live in lawlessness.  On the contrary, if we live in daily communion with Jesus Christ, our path is lighted and set out before us through commitment, grace,  and love.   Our reward is Him.   

How many churches stress this kind of freedom in Christ?



But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

--Rom 2:29

[redhotmagma]

amen Molly

[ded2daworld]

A "christian" cult is any group led by a charismatic leader or a group of men that claims to believe in God, Jesus, and the Bible but do one or more of several things:

!.) Add to (extrabiblical) or take away (God didn't really mean that) from scripture
2.) Make Christ less. (He is not God) (There are other Gods)(He was a great teacher)(He is our perfect example)(He hardly ever sinned)(He was the greatest man that ever lived) etc.
3.) Twisting the scriptures (taking the meaning and having it mean something else entirely or even the complete opposite)
4.) Insist that only those in their group that understand the scriptures "in the same manner" that the group does will be favored by God.
5.) Add some kind of works to the grace of God
6.) Insist that those that believe differently than their own group are lost.
7.) Discourage reading, talking, discussing, or even thinking about views that are different than the group.

Note: This is my definition having been a missionary to the cults and a member of two previously.
1st cult said only 144,00 Total would be saved.
2nd cult said it didn't matter at all about Jesus, his death, his resurrection or even scripture because God would forgive everyone for everything and it was an illusion that we had sinned in the first place. (We made mistakes - we never sinned) :laughing7:
This is probably why I have a tendency to "jump" when someone uses the language of a cult. I want to find out if they are in the cult. Most here however, have used the language or phrases without even realizing that each cult has "buzzwords"

[Molly]

"Buzzwords,"  interesting.  Their own language that is allowed or disallowed.

What was the cult that said nothing mattered?

I think a simple definition of a cult is any person or group that puts itself between you and Christ.

[Lazarus Short]

I remember that among the Seventh-Day Adventists (who insist they are NOT a cult) the buzzphrase was always, "Sister White said..."  It was usually a prelude to crushing your happiness.  I decided they were a cult after learning of their own translation of the Bible (the Clear Word) which reinforced their peculiar doctrines.

[ded2daworld]

a "christian" New Age group for anything goes. Very similar to Unitarian Universalism except you were expected to read a ton of new age baloney and philosophy, practice concious dreaming, and meditate on all being an illusion.

The WorldWide Church of God (or Armstrongism) for the 144,000.
The reason only 144,000 would make it?(besides Revelation#?) If you ever sinned even once after being baptized, there was no longer any hope for you? According to them, I was saved for about 15 minutes after Baptism. :laugh:

[ded2daworld]

Oh yeah Laz. I forgot to mention - Catholics, Jehovah Witnesses, Mormons, and SDA all have their own Bible translation which "fits" them better. BTW, WWCoG prefers your favorite, Ferrar Fenton - or was that Micah?

[Lazarus Short]

BTW, WWCoG prefers your favorite, Ferrar Fenton - or was that Micah?

I'm not surprised, as the FFV is the darling of the whole British-Israel community.  I love his OT, and still exploring his NT, and will submit a report on it later.

[redhotmagma]

Ded your definition of a cult assumes you are not the one twisting scripture, or reversing the meaning.  :Chinscratch:

Everyone thinks they have the correct translation.   Otherwise we wouldn't have 20k denominations. 

Also I was told when I was in the system still that non-trinity is a hallmark of cults. 

I must be a cult member then. 

We all have some things right and some things wrong.  If we only knew which parts were with...

:Peace2:  :HeartThrob:

[ded2daworld]

No red, I'm talking about when the plain reading of scripture disproves one of the tenets of the group and here is a direct quote from the WWCofG

"Yes. The plain reading of scripture would seem to mean this, but what God meant to say was..." :laugh:

Another one was that they would take a word, and that word made have 8 listed definitions. Definitions are listed in the likelyhood of use and correctness. When they have to use the 8th definition to get the meaning that they want rather than the plain reading that is in a dozen good translations...

[Molly]

Or, how about,  that translation is wrong.  It doesn't say the Word was God in the Greek, it says the Word was a god.

That's when I decided to learn some Greek.

And, no it doesn't.

King James got it right.

[ded2daworld]

Yeah, that was under reinterpreting scripture AND making Jesus less than God in the flesh and/or having multiple gods or a created god. :laughing7:

[dajomaco]

I thought the new age of Christianity does not believe there is a hell.
The old age of Christianity believes in a literal hell.

[ded2daworld]

"New Age" christianity doesn't believe in a hell. That doesn't mean they are right about anything else. I'm not saying if they are right on other things or not. Just that their beliefs, IF they coincide with UR isn't because of a careful study of the scriptures or even any reading of scriptures. The New Age literature doesn't recognise sin, death, hell or the need for Christ as anything other than a "Great Teacher" a Great Soul.

[dajomaco]

The WorldWide Church of God (or Armstrongism) for the 144,000.
The reason only 144,000 would make it?(besides Revelation#?) If you ever sinned even once after being baptized, there was no longer any hope for you? According to them, I was saved for about 15 minutes after Baptism. :laugh:

a "Christian" New Age group for anything goes.
When fear has been removed from the equation or philosophy
The thought (anything goes) is real and should not be dismissed.

It would be natural to look at and read about philosophy.
Explore all the ways of thinking about this life.

Every dream and vision  written about is a  conscious dream,
( practice conscious dreaming)

Are these dreams real or just an illusion?
We should meditate on such things.

[ded2daworld]

Well Daj,
IMO, you're only confirming my suspicions that you are a "new Ager" at heart. The Bible suggests we think and dwell on his word - the scriptures. You're suggesting it would be more beneficial for us to do what I personally have previously found to be futile. :Peace2:

[redhotmagma]

Ded,

The Bible is truth, but it is not all of the truth there is.  Philosophy is not inherently evil.  Dreams many times are given by God.

God speaks in many ways.  I would not be here if I had followed my bible , which is translated wrong on things like eternal.  I was given a vision and a revelation.  These seemed to contradict my understanding of the bible at the time.

Thankfully Gods Word IN me did not return void.

[Molly]

Ded,

The Bible is truth, but it is not all of the truth there is.  Philosophy is not inherently evil.  Dreams many times are given by God.

God speaks in many ways.  I would not be here if I had followed my bible , which is translated wrong on things like eternal.  I was given a vision and a revelation.  These seemed to contradict my understanding of the bible at the time.

Thankfully Gods Word IN me did not return void.

But, was your revelation and vision in tune with the correct translation of the Bible or at odds with it?  That's the real question.

[Molly]

I thought the new age of Christianity does not believe there is a hell.
The old age of Christianity believes in a literal hell.

I believe in a literal hell.  Been there, done that.

[sheila]

we still have to be on guard,daj.....we are warned by the spirit of another evil contrast spirit..that will lead

us down a hurtful path.True His yoke is light..but there is another whose yoke is not..it will put up heavy loads

on men,impossible to bear[see Jesus Christ unable to bear cross without the cyrene assisting]

  the Holy spirit teaches

  and rhm,your statement so true...it was when I realized that if I read and studied the scriptures for a thousand years

twice over,that I still of myself,could not or would not understand..that The Holy spirit come and give me understanding

  Blessed art thou,Peter, for flesh and blood did not reveal this to you,but the Father in Heaven.

   Ye diligently search the scriptures,for in them ye think you have eternal life, but me you reject.

[redhotmagma]

Ded,

The Bible is truth, but it is not all of the truth there is.  Philosophy is not inherently evil.  Dreams many times are given by God.

God speaks in many ways.  I would not be here if I had followed my bible , which is translated wrong on things like eternal.  I was given a vision and a revelation.  These seemed to contradict my understanding of the bible at the time.

Thankfully Gods Word IN me did not return void.

But, was your revelation and vision in tune with the correct translation of the Bible or at odds with it?  That's the real question.

Yes, but I've been wrong before on what I think is the proper translation  :icon_jokercolor:

And yes sheila.

there is a fine line to walk, between openness and closedness, something about a narrow road said by this enlighened teacher once  :rolllol:

[sheila]

re;'but was your revelation in tune with the correct....." it was if he received it in faith"..it was not if in his mind

  he saw it as a lie and of the devil..and the scriptures can be twisted of satan,very easily for that very purpose

   faith hope love....that which remains

 

[Molly]

Yes, but I've been wrong before on what I think is the proper translation

Yes, because there are two stages to that process.

First, what does it say?

Second, what does it mean?


What does it say, can  be more or less answered by looking at the original words.

But, what does it mean is not just a matter of reading comprehension.  It's what Sheila said.