Heaven is for everyone?

[lja]

I have listened and read quite a bit from the Gary's perspective.  Every Christian denomination and those called cults, believe they alone have the truth on various translations of words, phrases and historical context etc.  I have enjoyed many of Gary's teachings, but I grapple with the idea that even those who committed atrocities and horrors upon innocent people in this life, can then enjoy eternal life with God.  It is like whatever evils are inflicted upon another person doesn't matter.  What of little children (and others who cannot defend themselves) who are stolen and tortured, sexually abused and finally murdered...(or terrorists who saw off men's heads!) are they who endured this  face their torturers and live forever with them?  I mean it's nice to think that God's consuming 'fire' will purify all those who did such evil...but what of the innocents who had their lives horribly stolen from them?  I think you would argue that God will heal hearts and everyone will be forgiven of sin etc.  I read how it 'makes sense' that everyone will get to go to heaven - because Christ died for everyone.  But, this does not make sense to me at all!  I find it very disturbing....just as disturbing as I used to believe, as taught, in an eternal hell.  It seems that in this teaching anyone can live in whatever manner they choose because they are already forgiven anyway.  Are you saying that the death and resurrection of Christ...the only purpose for His suffering was to set us free from sin etc. in this life only? Are there any consequences for those who commit such evil?  I do understand that He gives us new life, and those who love Jesus are not going to choose to live sinfully.  But those who disregard God and reject the Savior in this life and commit all sorts of wicked deeds....are you saying ...it doesn't matter?  I'm sorry, I cannot get my head around that at all.  I am sorry if I have asked a question that I am sure a lot of people ask....there were too many articles for me to sift through, so I thought I would just say what was on my mind. 

[Beloved Servant]

Sometimes it's our own self-righteous judgment that stands in the way of forgiveness and the fact that — there but for the grace of God go I.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oV4ndllEY8&feature=related

[rosered]

  Hi Ija ,
   First  we need to know what you think Heaven is ?
when you explain   your  thinking to us we can than go from there

  before we can even answer your question ''Is heaven for everyone ?''
you said here,

I mean it's nice to think that God's consuming 'fire' will purify all those who did such evil...but what of the innocents who had their lives horribly stolen from them?

  the Life is in Christ Jesus and they are there already !   

  This life/world  and death we  go though is vanity
   I long to be with the Lord , where there is no more pain, sorrow   death , hurt , EVIL  and nothing evil will ever  enter in again !
the new heavens and new earth  complete in  GOD  the End    we long for this waiting  and groaning in the Spirit   for this to be ,
those  that died  innocent  are with Him already , they have an end in the  promise of God .wow !  :HeartThrob:


  thats what  we all desire is it not ?

[legoman]

Hi lja

I think its important to remember a couple things. 

1. Just because all are saved, does not mean we are saved from "consequences".   Everyone will indeed reap what they sow.  Anyone who commits atrocities will go through much shame, regret, guilt, and suffering (mental at least) over what they have done.

2.  The apostle Paul/Saul was called the "chief of sinners" - he committed great atrocities, persecuting and killing Christians, yet God converted him in a few seconds with a flash of light.  Yet Paul still went through much until he finally overcame.  We sometimes forget that God can convert the hardest of hearts.

Even according to mainstream teaching, Hitler could be in heaven right now.  He may have had a death-bed repentance before he killed himself... likewise many other mass murderers may say a sinners prayer right before they are sentenced to death.  Is that "fair" according to you that they "get into heaven", while their unsaved victim maybe didn't even have the chance to say a sinner's prayer?  Murderers and worse get into heaven because they repent later, while their unbelieving victims are not afforded that same opportunity.

See how it is actually the mainstream ET teaching that is completely unfair? 

[Paul Hazelwood]

I have listened and read quite a bit from the Gary's perspective.  Every Christian denomination and those called cults, believe they alone have the truth on various translations of words, phrases and historical context etc.  I have enjoyed many of Gary's teachings, but I grapple with the idea that even those who committed atrocities and horrors upon innocent people in this life, can then enjoy eternal life with God.  It is like whatever evils are inflicted upon another person doesn't matter.  What of little children (and others who cannot defend themselves) who are stolen and tortured, sexually abused and finally murdered...(or terrorists who saw off men's heads!) are they who endured this  face their torturers and live forever with them?  I mean it's nice to think that God's consuming 'fire' will purify all those who did such evil...but what of the innocents who had their lives horribly stolen from them?  I think you would argue that God will heal hearts and everyone will be forgiven of sin etc.  I read how it 'makes sense' that everyone will get to go to heaven - because Christ died for everyone.  But, this does not make sense to me at all!  I find it very disturbing....just as disturbing as I used to believe, as taught, in an eternal hell.  It seems that in this teaching anyone can live in whatever manner they choose because they are already forgiven anyway.  Are you saying that the death and resurrection of Christ...the only purpose for His suffering was to set us free from sin etc. in this life only? Are there any consequences for those who commit such evil?  I do understand that He gives us new life, and those who love Jesus are not going to choose to live sinfully.  But those who disregard God and reject the Savior in this life and commit all sorts of wicked deeds....are you saying ...it doesn't matter?  I'm sorry, I cannot get my head around that at all.  I am sorry if I have asked a question that I am sure a lot of people ask....there were too many articles for me to sift through, so I thought I would just say what was on my mind. 

I think I understand how you see this so I want to ask a question just to see if I am understanding what you wrote.

Would you say that those who commit the kinds of atrocities that you believe are beyond redemption do you see that as final no matter what?

For instance, if someone who committed such an atrocity, before they died,  repented and confessed before God and truly meant it,  would they be saved or would it still be too late for them?

[sheila]

    Consider this....Jesus said you must forgive all those that sin

against you, if you want the Heavenly Father to forgive you.


   So, the jews must forgive Hitler :mshock:,even as Christ

prayed that

their sin,ignorance blindness not be counted against them. :mblush:

   also when you consider the restitution of all things..that God

works...there are no dead.. all wrongs are righted, all

injustices/ corrected, all the robbed

are compensated and their goods recovered. All that was lost,

is found. All is forgiven,all is peace and righteousness in the

Holy spirit.


   BOY! He was RIGHT! when He said ,

   "my ways are higher than your ways"


   People sometimes  bitch and boast down here,[Babylon's MO]

or prefer an eye for eye and tooth for a tooth, mentality.And

find themselves receiving their judgement without mercy.


But,hey, you can't have both ways, mercy for you and no mercy

for others...that's pouring forth both bitter and sweet. and

a pair of unjust scales[which He detests]


  But we must be 'PERFECT" as our Father is....and that eye for

an eye mentality...judgement without mercy has a way of

coming back on you in ways you didn't think of.


   when judgement is rendered with mercy...none of us get what

  we really deserve...judgement without mercy is another story


  He calls out, COME ON UP HERE! 


You see, His testimony per

  the Word and Spirit,has lay dead in the street..in sodom and

  Egypt[Babylon,Harlot that says she is God's wife] she  use"s

unjust scales, a little heavy on the mercy shown unto her

judgement, but fudging on the judgement of others!!


   There is a time ,when the spirits of just men, are made

   perfect [the cheating pair of scales[on the eyes of the blind]

  are removed, Acts 9;18 Immediately,something like scales fell

from Saul's eyes, and he could see again


   Rev 6;5  When th Lamb opened the third seal, I heard the

third living creature say ,'COME!" I looked and there before me

was a black horse! It's rider was holding a pair of scales in his

hand. Then I HEARD WHAT SOUNDED LIKE A VOICE AMONG THE

FOUR LIVING CREATURES,saying.'A quart of wheat for a days

wages, and three quarts of barley for a days wages, and

DO NOT DAMAGE THE OIL AND THE WINE[ the oil and wine are

the Holy spirit and Jesus Christ's testimony]  Can you say ,

'give us each day our daily bread, FORGIVE US OUR TRESPASSES

AS WE FORGIVE THOSE WHO TRESPASS AGAINST US'?

[lja]

I want to thank you guys for responding to my rambling.  I will take some time to reflect upon the questions I have received.  I sure don't want to sound judgmental or self-righteous in my questions though.  Did it sound like that?   Anyway, let me chew on this a bit and I will come back again.  Thanks again.

[Paul Hazelwood]

I want to thank you guys for responding to my rambling.  I will take some time to reflect upon the questions I have received.  I sure don't want to sound judgmental or self-righteous in my questions though.  Did it sound like that?   Anyway, let me chew on this a bit and I will come back again.  Thanks again.

I would not call you judgmental or self righteous because you simply show that you are struggling to understand something, there is nothing wrong with that at all.

I asked the questions to make sure I am understanding what you are saying so I can perhaps respond with something worthwhile.

[sheila]

  Hi lja,

   When I was 17 I was told about the salvation of all, and my reaction was just like yours :mshock:

   Boy, did I ever go through it because of it...I was sent to a spiritual prisonhouse. I wouldn't wish that on no-one.

  needless to say..by the time I got out of there I was more than willing to accept grace,for myself and everyone! :mblush:

  Mt 5;25  Settle matters quickly with your adversary who is taking you to court.Do it while you are still with him on the way, or he may hand you over to the judge, and the judge may hand you over to the officer, and you may be thrown into prison.
I tell you the truth, you will not get out of there until you pay the last penny

  Romans 5;19 For just as through the disobediance of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obediance of the one man the many will be made righteous

   I didn't mean to sound condemning of  you, dear. Just open your eyes to the danger of that rational. Ipaid dearly for it.

  Because of the good evil mix, we think in degrees of evil

to Him a little leaven ferments the whole lump

   God Bless you, :HeartThrob: