Exceeding what is written.

[rosered]

  Hi Mickel  ,
can you exceed what is written by the Letter of the Law ?


Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency [is] of God;


2Cr 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter kills, but the spirit gives life.


2Cr 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written [and] engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which [glory] was to be done away:

2Cr 3:8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?


2Cr 3:9 For if the ministration of condemnation [be] glory,

  much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

[Mickiel]

  Hi Mickel  ,
can you exceed what is written by the Letter of the Law ?

Well yes, by the letter of the Law, which really means line for line or what we can plainly adhere to and understand, or by the Spirit, which means " Influence", the powers that indulge our minds, by which our thoughts are caught up and inticed. People exceed, or go beyond what is plainly written, and then they are being moved by the influence in the mind, which is not always God. Often it is our own self interpitation, our own self desires, our own greed for Spiritual things, that exceed what is written.

We lust for Spiritual things, just as we lust for physical things.

James 1:14;" But each one is tempted and CARRIED away and enticed by his OWN lust for things."The " Carried away" , is the exceeding. When our lust for Spiritual things goes beyond what God has timed, then we can loose our " Footing", no longer properly grounded, we can be carried away, past and beyond Gods intent for us now! And from this point comes the " Exceeding", we are not really in control, our lust and desire is .

Peace.

[rosered]

  wow  :thumbsup:  I can certainly  agree with  what you said Mickel

  the letter / literal  kills

[Mickiel]

In Genesis 2:16-17 God told the couple that they may eat freely from any tree in the garden, but not to eat from the tree of the Knowledge  of Good and Evil, that wouldnot be a " Free Meal", it would cost some serious things, including the death of Christ. Here the habit of " Exceeding in humanity" was born, going beyond what God has said. Here the couple exceeded the verbal word of God, and took more than they should have. Believers now a days take from God and exceed the written word, they take the things that they see and most desire in the Bible.

Things like Speaking in Tounges, being Born Again, having the Spirit of God, having Gods Kingdom within you, all these are fruits on the tree of the Bible, which believers are taking everyday. Because we think they are freely given, they are they for the taking, just sitting right there in the bible.

The seed of exceeding is whats really within man, the seed of taking from God.

And I want to go onto that.

Peace.

[Mickiel]

In all of my current studies, and past studies, the most interesting dynamic to me, is the tendency of believers in God to assume so much about themselves and their relationship with God and the Bible. The assumptions, often brash and erupting, have taken on a life of their own and developed a unique personality , revrealing  the ability of believing humans to usurp things of God, place themselves into the bible, and thus claim all of its promises, thinking nothing in the light that they may be presumptive. Just a seemingly " Naturally ingrained exceeding of Gods Word", and this has be so EASILY accomplished, so very well done, my suspicions are just off of the scale of my curosity. Meaning I just know God had something to do with it.

When a great power, achieves a great deception, yeilding astoundingly great results, then I always suspect God. When so many believers are duped into themselves, when so many cannot see truth about themselves, then something has blinded them to the truth of themselves.

In my view, belief in God is more of a weird matter of " Spiritual Greed", than it is a Love for him.

And I want to explain that.

Peace.

[Mickiel]

I have never in my Life met a believer in God who had exceeding Love for the world of unbelievers. Never. I have met believers who talk about unbelievers like dogs. I have met believers who hold themselves up higher than all others, and have a good highminded biblical view of themselves, but I have NEVER met a believer in God who was like Christ.

Jesus in Matt. 15:32 felt a natural Love for the multitude of humans he ran into. It was natural to him, just his way of being.

I have met believers in God who CLAIM themselves to be like Christ, which I view as just another way they have of exceeding what is really true. Believers now have redefined what a follower of God is. The common group aittitude has developed and morphed into a weird kind of Greed, always talking about what God is going to do for them, or has done for them. Like a spoiled offspring of a rich person, believers are gluping up the promises of God with a ferice ravegous appitite. I got this and I got that, I am this and I am that, just selfishness upon selfishness, all masked by their belief, so its excused and accepted as being " Spiritual."

Often to me its like looking at something so ugly, which personally thinks itself to be bueatiful, I just have to turn away from looking at it.

Like a " Spiritual Medusa", so ugly it can turn your view into stone. Take all the Life out of your Joy.

Peace.

[Mickiel]

Even the Gospel message itself has morphed and changed from the Good News of Gods comming Kingdom, into now-- how the believers have taken that Kingdom into themselves! The Gospel is no longer about Jesus saving sinners, now its about how God has called out and chosen a group. The attention of the message has been turned " Inside out", now believers are going around boasting about whats in them, and not about God soon comming into this world.

Believers are exceeding their belief, and falling in Love with self adulation, self being raised, self being rewarded, self being Spiritually passified.

Peace.

[Mickiel]

If you raise up a child, and start filling their young heads with " I am going to give you this", and I am going to make you that, what do you think you are doing? What are you creating within your child? I'm going to give you riches, I am going to make you a King, I am going to give you the Power to Heal, I am going to give you power to perform miricles. I am going to give you more Knowledge than anyonelse, make you invincible and sin free. If you raise up your children telling them all of these  things, how do you think their characther and mind will turn out?

Are they going to be spoiled? Are they going to be self indulged? What is their confidence going to be like, will it exceed their reality, because of all the gifts offered?

Just take a closer look at the world of believers, and you will see what has been created.

Peace.

[Mickiel]

One of the most interesting programs on cable that I am attracted to with intense intrest is American Greed. It shows how people get caught up in scams because of their greed, following the promise of their investments growing. Greed, how the expectations of " Getting More" is a great lure to people.

It also is a reflection of " Spiritual Greed", what the expectations of " Getting More From God", can cause in a believer. The true orgin of exceeding what is written in believers.

Peace.

[rosered]

  Hi Mickel ,
  been reading some of your posts here 
and agree no one should think that much of themselves
  God judges our hearts  and sees what is in them  dark and empty places    and  He is the Light thats fills  it and  than we can  really see how  dead and empty we really are
   greedy people    they are the same  that the bible calls  covetous

  now thats a word  most never ever see them selves being  but i have been and  still am in alot of ways   and hate it
When will God change us Mickel?
  Do you hate Christians  ?

[Mickiel]

  Hi Mickel ,
  been reading some of your posts here 
and agree no one should think that much of themselves
  God judges our hearts  and sees what is in them  dark and empty places    and  He is the Light thats fills  it and  than we can  really see how  dead and empty we really are
   greedy people    they are the same  that the bible calls  covetous

  now thats a word  most never ever see them selves being  but i have been and  still am in alot of ways   and hate it
When will God change us Mickel?
  Do you hate Christians  ?

Most of us will be changed only after Jesus will return, and with some of them the process will only take a second. With a few, the process could begin before he returns. And with some of them, the process could take 50 years or shorter. It could take anywhere from 70 years to just a few, its something no human could put a number on and be exact.

No I do not hate Christians, but I do however strongly dislike the emotional claim of having Gods Spirit, when the person has done nothing to prove it to themselves, and they really don't have it. I feel this to be the number one deception that satan has used to infiltrate the comming of the Truth, and to gain major inroads into the minds of spirit coveting believers.

Peace.

[rosered]

  Hi Mickel ,
  been reading some of your posts here 
and agree no one should think that much of themselves
  God judges our hearts  and sees what is in them  dark and empty places    and  He is the Light thats fills  it and  than we can  really see how  dead and empty we really are
   greedy people    they are the same  that the bible calls  covetous

  now thats a word  most never ever see them selves being  but i have been and  still am in alot of ways   and hate it
When will God change us Mickel?
  Do you hate Christians  ?

Most of us will be changed only after Jesus will return, and with some of them the process will only take a second. With a few, the process could begin before he returns. And with some of them, the process could take 50 years or shorter. It could take anywhere from 70 years to just a few, its something no human could put a number on and be exact.

No I do not hate Christians, but I do however strongly dislike the emotional claim of having Gods Spirit, when the person has done nothing to prove it to themselves, and they really don't have it. I feel this to be the number one deception that satan has used to infiltrate the comming of the Truth, and to gain major inroads into the minds of spirit coveting believers.

Peace.

   I do believe that  when the Truth comes , it cannot be hid or denied Mickel it is a Light that makes the darkness  dissapear

NCV
Jesus Is the Light of the World
12 Later, Jesus talked to the people again, saying, "I am the light of the world. The person who follows me will never live in darkness but will have the light that gives life."   13 The Pharisees said to Jesus, "When you talk about yourself, you are the only one to say these things are true. We cannot accept what you say."

14 Jesus answered, "Yes, I am saying these things about myself,


  but they are true. I know where I came from and where I am going. But you don't know where I came from or where I am going.


15 You judge by human standards.


I am not judging anyone. 



16 But when I do judge, I judge truthfully, because I am not alone. The Father who sent me is with me.


17 Your own law says that when two witnesses say the same thing, you must accept what they say.


18 I am one of the witnesses who speaks about myself,
  and the Father who sent me is the other witness."

19 They asked, "Where is your father?"

   Jesus answered, "You don't know me or my Father.


If you knew me, you would know my Father, too."

20 Jesus said these things while he was teaching in the Temple, near where the money is kept.

  But no one arrested him, because the right time for him had not yet come.

The People Misunderstand Jesus
21 Again, Jesus said to the people, "I will leave you, and you will look for me, but you will die in your sins. You cannot come where I am going."


22 So the Jews asked, "Will he kill himself? Is that why he said, 'You cannot come where I am going' ?"

23 Jesus said, "You people are from here below, but I am from above. You belong to this world, but I don't belong to this world.



  24 So I told you that you would die in your sins. Yes, you will die in your sins if you don't believe that I am he."

25 They asked, "Then who are you?"

   Jesus answered, "I am what I have told you from the beginning. 26 I have many things to say and decide about you. But I tell people only the things I have heard from the One who sent me, and he speaks the truth."
27 The people did not understand that he was talking to them about the Father.


28 So Jesus said to them,
"When you lift up the Son of Man, you will know that I am he. You will know that these things I do are not by my own authority but that I say only what the Father has taught me. 29 The One who sent me is with me. I always do what is pleasing to him, so he has not left me alone." 30 While Jesus was saying these things, many people believed in him.

Freedom from Sin
31 So Jesus said to the Jews who believed in him, "If you continue to obey my teaching, you are truly my followers. 32 Then you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free."   33 They answered, "We are Abraham's children, and we have never been anyone's slaves. So why do you say we will be free?"


34 Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, everyone who lives in sin is a slave to sin. 35 A slave does not stay with a family forever, but a son belongs to the family forever.36 So if the Son makes you free, you will be truly free.37 I know you are Abraham's children, but you want to kill me because you don't accept my teaching. 38 I am telling you what my Father has shown me, but you do what your father has told you."   39 They answered, "Our father is Abraham."

   Jesus said, "If you were really Abraham's children, you would do[a] the things Abraham did. 40 I am a man who has told you the truth which I heard from God, but you are trying to kill me. Abraham did nothing like that. 41 So you are doing the things your own father did."     But they said, "We are not like children who never knew who their father was. God is our Father; he is the only Father we have."

42 Jesus said to them, "If God were really your Father, you would love me, because I came from God and now I am here. I did not come by my own authority; God sent me.



43 You don't understand what I say, because you cannot accept my teaching.

44 You belong to your father the devil, and you want to do what he wants. He was a murderer from the beginning and was against the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he tells a lie, he shows what he is really like, because he is a liar and the father of lies.45 But because I speak the truth, you don't believe me.


46 Can any of you prove that I am guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don't you believe me? 47 The person who belongs to God accepts what God says. But you don't accept what God says, because you don't belong to God."

  THIS is how everyone will know Mickel  the Truth  , being born of Spirit and truth   is of God and Jesus   that is what would  cause them to die  , because  they killed Jesus and it will happen to you too if you believe ,they kill with their LIES 
  lies kill the Truth   Jesus said it here  for us to alos believe Him , He is the Truth , but they could never kill the incorruptible  SEED OF GOD , because to the  Glory of God  He can raise  them  up AGAIN  to Life
  that is what makes God powerful and wonderful and to be  believed  to me
 
peace .. rose

[Paul Hazelwood]

The bible is the written Word of God and one of the most common reactions of a believer who reads it, is to exceed what was written. Or " Adding to " Gods Word. And most common is the tendency to add things that add to yourself. Add rewards to yourself, gifts to yourself, Spiritual talents to yourself. 1 Corinth. 4:6;"Now these things bretheren, I have figuratively applied to myself and Appollos for your sakes, that in us you might learn not to Exceed what is written." Paul was trying to give an Apostlic example of humility and Patience because the believers were claiming all sorts of things, just instilling all kinds of beliefs that their spiritual greed couldnot contain.

In general I do not disagree here.   But how I take the verse is instruction to not use real spiritual gifts (as opposed to just claims) in a way that is  self gratifying.

This is indeed difficult because when we use our gifts we often want recognition for it.  I would love to be able to heal the whole world, but I also know that if I had that power I would want the whole world to know about it.  lol

My mom laid her hands on my sister and instantly healed her of her migranes, that was 10 years ago and she has never had one since.   But my mom will not talk about it, and my mom doesn't think that just because a person has the gift of healing that you will be able to heal everyone.   I suspect that my mom has healed more people than my sister, but she is led by the spirit to do it as God instructs.   But my mom will not talk about it, ever.

Interesting that this thread comes along at this time as I havent known about this healing of my sister for but a short time.

I only know about my sisters healing because she told me and doesn't tell very many people because she knows that it could bring attention to my mom that she does not want.

There are some who might think that my mom is withholding her gift, but that also would be a self serving opinion I believe.  Because what happens when my mom doesn't heal someone?

[rosered]

The bible is the written Word of God and one of the most common reactions of a believer who reads it, is to exceed what was written. Or " Adding to " Gods Word. And most common is the tendency to add things that add to yourself. Add rewards to yourself, gifts to yourself, Spiritual talents to yourself. 1 Corinth. 4:6;"Now these things bretheren, I have figuratively applied to myself and Appollos for your sakes, that in us you might learn not to Exceed what is written." Paul was trying to give an Apostlic example of humility and Patience because the believers were claiming all sorts of things, just instilling all kinds of beliefs that their spiritual greed couldnot contain.

In general I do not disagree here.   But how I take the verse is instruction to not use real spiritual gifts (as opposed to just claims) in a way that is not self gratifying.

This is indeed difficult because when we use our gifts we often want recognition for it.  I would love to be able to heal the whole world, but I also know that if I had that power I would want the whole world to know about it.  lol

My mom laid her hands on my sister and instantly healed her of her migranes, that was 10 years ago and she has never had one since.   But my mom will not talk about it, and my mom doesn't think that just because a person has the gift of healing that you will be able to heal everyone.   I suspect that my mom has healed more people than my sister, but she is led by the spirit to do it as God instructs.   But my mom will not talk about it, ever.

Interesting that this thread comes along at this time as I havent known about this healing of my sister for but a short time.

I only know about my sisters healing because she told me and doesn't tell very many people because she knows that it could bring attention to my mom that she does not want.

There are some who might think that my mom is withholding her gift, but that also would be a self serving opinion I believe.  Because what happens when my mom doesn't heal someone?

awesome witness Paul and  true !  Praise God
  I too have  had my daughter healed  by the Lord ,  no man did this but God , for he purposes everyone   for His own  will , and I dont brag about it  to anyone either    this Glory is for God and to Him only

  thanks  for sharing   Jesus does still heal , it is just not some big spectacle  and show  to  go bragging about  , but quietly  thanking  God and  be greatful and humbled by His love and compassion  on us .....


 



Corinthians 4
Apostles Are Servants of Christ
1 People should think of us as servants of Christ, the ones God has trusted with his secrets.


2 Now in this way those who are trusted with something valuable must show they are worthy of that trust.

3 As for myself, I do not care if I am judged by you or by any human court. I do not even judge myself.

4 I know of no wrong I have done, but this does not make me right before the Lord. The Lord is the One who judges me.


5 So do not judge before the right time; wait until the Lord comes. He will bring to light things that are now hidden in darkness, and will make known the secret purposes of people's hearts. Then God will praise each one of them.



6 Brothers and sisters, I have used Apollos and myself as examples so you could learn through us the meaning of the saying, "Follow only what is written in the Scriptures."


Then you will not be more proud of one person than another.7 Who says you are better than others? What do you have that was not given to you? And if it was given to you, why do you brag as if you did not receive it as a gift?

8 You think you already have everything you need. You think you are rich. You think you have become kings without us. I wish you really were kings so we could be kings together with you.9 But it seems to me that God has put us apostles in last place, like those sentenced to die. We are like a show for the whole world to see—angels and people.10 We are fools for Christ's sake, but you are very wise in Christ. We are weak, but you are strong. You receive honor, but we are shamed.11 Even to this very hour we do not have enough to eat or drink or to wear. We are often beaten, and we have no homes in which to live.12 We work hard with our own hands for our food. When people curse us, we bless them. When they hurt us, we put up with it.13 When they tell evil lies about us, we speak nice words about them. Even today, we are treated as though we were the garbage of the world—the filth of the earth.

[Mickiel]

Certain believers exceed what is written because inwardly they think they are " Better than sinners and unbelievers". As if they have not sinned, have reached a point of sinlessness. Romans 3:9-12" What then? Are we better than they? Not at all; for we have already charged that both Jews and Greeks are all under sin. There is NONE righteous, not even one. There is none who understands, there is none who seeks God, ALL have turned aside, together they have become useless, there is none who does Good, not even one." This is a true discription of humanity at its core, both believer and unbeliever.

Now, believers would like to seperate themselves from this discription, and claim that they are righteous, and that this does not discribe them. Because they think they know God, they feel like they understand God. So in order to publically show their understanding of God, they start getting into explaining scripture and showcasing their own lives. And they , through this dynamic, always exceed what is written. Because when self is exalted, scripture is abused. There is no fear of God in their eyes, because their eyes are full of themselves. How spiritual they are.

The devil can do an awful lot with this kind of mentality, and hardly ever be seen while hes doing it.

Peace.

[rosered]

Certain believers exceed what is written because inwardly they think they are " Better than sinners and unbelievers". As if they have not sinned, have reached a point of sinlessness. Romans 3:9-12" What then? Are we better than they? Not at all; for we have already charged that both Jews and Greeks are all under sin. There is NONE righteous, not even one. There is none who understands, there is none who seeks God, ALL have turned aside, together they have become useless, there is none who does Good, not even one." This is a true discription of humanity at its core, both believer and unbeliever.

Now, believers would like to seperate themselves from this discription, and claim that they are righteous, and that this does not discribe them. Because they think they know God, they feel like they understand God. So in order to publically show their understanding of God, they start getting into explaining scripture and showcasing their own lives. And they , through this dynamic, always exceed what is written. Because when self is exalted, scripture is abused. There is no fear of God in their eyes, because their eyes are full of themselves. How spiritual they are.

The devil can do an awful lot with this kind of mentality, and hardly ever be seen while hes doing it.

Peace.

Hi Mickel
  and I agree when self righteousness   is what makes anyone Think they are  in victory over death  and above everyone else
  I do think that is when God will deal with them the most and it will not be a pleasent   experience for them  to go though at all

  but them that are overcome really overcome by it all  , Jesus will  have mercy on them and  they will be saved  by His doings and none other

  the devil hides in the dark places of the heart and mind , when the Light / knowledge of Christ comes
   the devil has no place to go in them  any more 
  the devil has to look for someone else to tempt  and accuse  before God

   no one gets away  scott free  , we are all judged by God

[Mickiel]

[quote author=rosered link

  the devil hides in the dark places of the heart and mind , when the Light / knowledge of Christ comes
   the devil has no place to go in them  any more 
  the devil has to look for someone else to tempt  and accuse  before God

   no one gets away  scott free  , we are all judged by God
[/quote]



I think its true that the devil hides in the dark places in the mind, but I also believe he hides in the Light as well. Its not limited to darkness only, he will come into the Light. He will get into your Spiritual thoughts, he will mix and blend into your light, and make you think he is God. I also believe that the knowledge of God does not cancel out the devils influence. I don't see a point in a believer that the devil won't have anymore to do with them. As if he has no place to go in them anymore, as if they are now " Devil Free", invulnerable or unable to be tempted. I don't see that in a believer, that level of protection. I believe satan has to be totally removed from the environment, and then a human could be free of him.

If a believer can reach that point without satan being removed from the earth, then I certainly don't know about such a point of being.

Peace.

[rosered]

[quote author=rosered link

  the devil hides in the dark places of the heart and mind , when the Light / knowledge of Christ comes
   the devil has no place to go in them  any more 
  the devil has to look for someone else to tempt  and accuse  before God

   no one gets away  scott free  , we are all judged by God

I think its true that the devil hides in the dark places in the mind, but I also believe he hides in the Light as well. Its not limited to darkness only, he will come into the Light. He will get into your Spiritual thoughts, he will mix and blend into your light, and make you think he is God. I also believe that the knowledge of God does not cancel out the devils influence. I don't see a point in a believer that the devil won't have anymore to do with them. As if he has no place to go in them anymore, as if they are now " Devil Free", invulnerable or unable to be tempted. I don't see that in a believer, that level of protection. I believe satan has to be totally removed from the environment, and then a human could be free of him.

If a believer can reach that point without satan being removed from the earth, then I certainly don't know about such a point of being.

Peace.
[/quote]  I appreciate  you answering Mickel ,
and am enjoying the conversation  with you
    I would believe that some what except how much the scriptures  say   that it is not possible for the darkness  and light  to have fellowship together ?
  maybe God seperates this from us  some how ?

  when we are tempted of the devil we are to resist his influences?

    what you  you think about this verse ?


Jam 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

Jam 4:8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse [your] hands, [ye] sinners; and purify [your] hearts, [ye] double minded.


Jam 4:9 Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and [your] joy to heaviness.


Jam 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

Jam 4:11 Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of [his] brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge.

  there is lots to learn and do  and wait on the Lord for our help , I think some do  get to break free from the devils influences in the earth 
  Do you think God can allow this to happen ?

      God bless you Mickel .. his peace  rose

[Mickiel]

[quote author=rosered

  there is lots to learn and do  and wait on the Lord for our help , I think some do  get to break free from the devils influences in the earth 
  Do you think God can allow this to happen ?

      God bless you Mickel .. his peace  rose

[/quote]

Well I think its possible, I just have never seen it myself. I mean with God all things are possible, I just have never known him to bring a human in our time to such a point, and not many in biblical history. Perhaps Job was brought there, but I doubt anyonelse except Jesus. Well you name those you know of for me. Are you free of the devils influence? Who do you know thats free? I mean  thebible holds some lofty goals, but who do you know has met them?

Peace.

[Paul Hazelwood]

I am not sure we can ever be completely free, but I know I have made breakthroughs in areas that I no longer struggle with.

Whether or not that is freedom in Christ I will not try to debate, if being free from drugs and alchohol without any lingering struggle with them at all is not freedom, then I suppose there is none indeed.   ;)

What I believe personally is that people can be freed of those things and it is Gods doing, in Christ, or the holy spirit, whatever it may be , it is from God.  I also believe that it is not necessary for the person to believe it is God, for it to be God.   

My main point in that is often believers think that before you can have any type of freedom in life you must conform to the religiousness of accepting Christ and such and I do not believe that.   Mainly because I had no thought to Christ or god when I was delivered from the addictions mentioned above, but later in life I know there was no other source of delieverance.   

Once we realize (even if we are not completely free) that God accounts for everything we do, then we can see all of life in a whole different perspective.

[rosered]

[quote author=rosered

  there is lots to learn and do  and wait on the Lord for our help , I think some do  get to break free from the devils influences in the earth 
  Do you think God can allow this to happen ?

      God bless you Mickel .. his peace  rose

Well I think its possible, I just have never seen it myself. I mean with God all things are possible, I just have never known him to bring a human in our time to such a point, and not many in biblical history. Perhaps Job was brought there, but I doubt anyonelse except Jesus. Well you name those you know of for me. Are you free of the devils influence? Who do you know thats free? I mean  thebible holds some lofty goals, but who do you know has met them?

Peace.
[/quote] wow good questions  Mickel!

I am not sure if I can answer them  bro  ,
 but i will try   when I look at my husband  , I see a spiritual man that is holy to God , this man prays to God and   is humble and he  is the closest I ever saw , I see His heart and it is a good one , this man  keeps his conscience clean  before God ,
but that was not the way he was before , God did change him but he also stayed in  the Lord too   I dont think the devil influences  him anymore
 yet my husband would say he is  not a holy man , that only God is holy  

 so I wonder Mickel     maybe only God can say who is holy and who is not ?  maybe our job is to keep trying to be  what God asks of us  to be for him ?   I believe we have  2 bodies  and inward spiritual body  being born again   into the spirit   and an outward physical/flesh  body   one is clean and holy to God  and the other is  not ,  no flesh pleases God
 what  do you say about that? do you  believe this is possible with God ?
   thanks for sharing  ,  rose

[rosered]

  Paul  wrote ;

My main point in that is often believers think that before you can have any type of freedom in life you must conform to the religiousness of accepting Christ and such and I do not believe that.   Mainly because I had no thought to Christ or god when I was delivered from the addictions mentioned above, but later in life I know there was no other source of delieverance.   

Once we realize (even if we are not completely free) that God accounts for everything we do, then we can see all of life in a whole different perspective.

  That is true Paul , we can see  with new eyes [perspecive]  when we let God do  it and not let everyone else tell you what is God  and what is not God
 
  I have had some    horrid  things I have done in life and some  horrid things done to me
  and I am  glad they are no longer  the things I stuggle with 
I am not depressed anylonger as I had been for so many  many years
   I am so glad that part is over  and Do  give God the credit  for this

   peace .. rose
   

[Mickiel]

[quote author=rosered link
 so I wonder Mickel     maybe only God can say who is holy and who is not ?  maybe our job is to keep trying to be  what God asks of us  to be for him ?   I believe we have  2 bodies  and inward spiritual body  being born again   into the spirit   and an outward physical/flesh  body   one is clean and holy to God  and the other is  not ,  no flesh pleases God
 what  do you say about that? do you  believe this is possible with God ?
   thanks for sharing  ,  rose
[/quote]


Well I think your right there, let God be the one who claims others Holy, and not we ourselves. I sure willnot listen to those who claim it. And I do not believe we have two bodies, but we are influenced by two powers. We only have one body, the Spirit has no body.

Peace.

[rosered]

[quote author=rosered link
 so I wonder Mickel     maybe only God can say who is holy and who is not ?  maybe our job is to keep trying to be  what God asks of us  to be for him ?   I believe we have  2 bodies  and inward spiritual body  being born again   into the spirit   and an outward physical/flesh  body   one is clean and holy to God  and the other is  not ,  no flesh pleases God
 what  do you say about that? do you  believe this is possible with God ?
   thanks for sharing  ,  rose

Well I think your right there, let God be the one who claims others Holy, and not we ourselves. I sure willnot listen to those who claim it. And I do not believe we have two bodies, but we are influenced by two powers. We only have one body, the Spirit has no body.

Peace.
[/quote]  Hi  Mickel ,
I am glad that we can agree on some things , I really am
  the only reason I believe in two bodies is  Chapter   1 Corinthians  15   

  the  bodies Paul desribes that lets me know this is happening
  and Jesus speaks  of two  grinding at the mill one is taken  two men  laying in bed   in Luke 17
them  scriptures  that help me to see it that way , one is a spiritual body the other is an earthly body , that is just how I am seeing this though , you may  not see  it that way ,
  thanks for your replys  brother M
   Peace  rose
 

[Mickiel]

/quote]  Hi  Mickel ,
I am glad that we can agree on some things , I really am
  the only reason I believe in two bodies is  Chapter   1 Corinthians  15   

  the  bodies Paul desribes that lets me know this is happening
  and Jesus speaks  of two  grinding at the mill one is taken  two men  laying in bed   in Luke 17
them  scriptures  that help me to see it that way , one is a spiritual body the other is an earthly body , that is just how I am seeing this though , you may  not see  it that way ,
  thanks for your replys  brother M
   Peace  rose
 

Well thank you for your replys as well. I have enjoyed the conversation myself. I think you and Paul agree, I just see it differently. I think the term " Spirit Body", is contridiction. A body is something  made of flesh, A Spirit means its not made of flesh, thus, in my view of things, a Spirit Body is contridiction, no such thing. You cannot combine the two. But I understand that Paul knew no other way to describe a " Spirit Being" or what the Spirit is " Contained in", so he called it a " Spirit Body." Thats like saying there is " Natural Flesh" and there is " Spiritual Flesh", and I just do not agree with that interpitation. Not that I make it a habit of disagreeing with biblical writers, I just do not agree with how Paul is interpited in this matter, or how he interpits this.

Spirite don't have bodys, because Bodys are flesh. They have some kind of form or substance, but we just don't know what it is. We  know what a body is, but I just don't think we rightly know and understand what a Spirit is. I believe Spirits shape like Men, but after reading Revelations, not all Spirit being shape like men. Can we say that those who shape like lions  or egales have a " Spirit Body", or is a body only accepted if it looks like ours? I do believe that we have Bodies as humans, but when we are transfigured by God we will be changed and born again into the Spirit relm. I do not agree with those who see it as we can be a Spirit being while yet in the Flesh.

But its no big deal, I could be wrong, because I am not 100% convinced either way, I just lean toward what I have explained.

Peace.