The bible is the written Word of God and one of the most common reactions of a believer who reads it, is to exceed what was written. Or " Adding to " Gods Word. And most common is the tendency to add things that add to yourself. Add rewards to yourself, gifts to yourself, Spiritual talents to yourself. 1 Corinth. 4:6;"Now these things bretheren, I have figuratively applied to myself and Appollos for your sakes, that in us you might learn not to Exceed what is written." Paul was trying to give an Apostlic example of humility and Patience because the believers were claiming all sorts of things, just instilling all kinds of beliefs that their spiritual greed couldnot contain.
They believed in the written word, but were going beyond what was written, and were " Writting new Scriptures in their hearts." They were expanding the word of God , strecthing it to their own advantages. Trying to get things out of Gods word for themselves. And to this day, its still a common practice for believers to get things out of the bible for themselves. The majority of their discussions consist of what they have from God, or what they will get from God. They reguard themselves as superior, and consistantly rehearse this amoungst themselves, a kind of pride reassured.
Paul labeled it as an aittitude that displays the believer as , vs.8, " Already Filled", already become rich, already a King before their appointed time. Already filled, or claiming to have Gods Spirit when you have not been given it yet. Already become rich, or claiming to have the future rewards waiting in Heaven, with you right now. Become Kings without us, or trying to bring the Kingdom of Heaven down inside of you right now, instead of the appointed time that it will come for everyone. All of these things are methods of " Boasting in yourself", not boasting in the Lord, your boasting about things you claim are in you, not in God, 1Corinth.1:31. Already filled, the popular belief of the things of God being " Within."
I want to go through the many methods of " Exceeding Gods Word", and start by beginning with " Human Wisdom", the most common way to learn how to exceed what is written.
Peace.
Notice Romans 11:25," Lest you be wise in your own estimation." This is by far the most dominant reason the bible is misinterpited, and also why believers make all kinds of spiritual claims. Because in their view, according to their own minds, they are Spiritually wise. And some go to the point that they will arrogantly and agressively defend their beliefs concerning themselves.
People like this like to tell others how they speak in tounges, how God talks to them, how they have the Spirit within, how they are born again. All selfish topics, but they love to spread that selfishness. Can you imagine a whole church full of people like this, oh they will just know they are Gods people. Very easily develop hardcore spiritual selfishness, and any children being raised within this church, will be imprinted with this for life.
What we think of ourselves is so very important, and to overestimate ourselves spiritually, is by far the most dominant spiritual problem on earth right now amoungst the believers in God.
And I want to get into that.
Peace.
Working with prisoners everyday, I have learned that a common " Prision Mentality", is to free the mind, since your body is locked up. Don't let them trap your mind. Well the planet earth is a type of prision, a very large complex prision. The believers of the world know this, so they look to free their minds Spiritually. They want to be " Spiritual", different, and holders of the keys of God.
When the human mind is looking to free itself from " Within the Prision", then self estimation is nearly always exalted. It has to be, in order to go beyond your environment. When believers in God try to do this spiritually, this is where all these highly exalted beliefs are comming from, of course detoured through the bible. Using the word of God to support their lofty claims. Using their human wisdom, and thinking that to be the wisdom of God.
Which I believe makes them far more dangerous than unbelievers. And also why I believe FAR more believers in God have perverted his word, than have unbelievers.
And I want to get into that.
Peace.
Romans 12:3;" For through the " Grace GIVEN to me" , I say to every " Believer" amoung you not to think more highly of themselves than they ought to be thinking." The greatest path to human wisdom being exalted, is self estimation. When you start thinking about how great you are. How God has given you this and imparted unto you that. When you start believing your own press. When it no longer matters how much you are complimented or praised by others, because your giving yourself enough of that in your own mind.
A believer in God with a highly exalted opinion of themselves, can do more damage to a group than an unbeliever could. Jim Jones is a good example of that. He led over 900 people to their deaths, using the bible and a highly exalted opinion of himself. He created a "Kingdom of God on earth" in Jonestown. The believers accepted his wisdom as the wisdom of God, a fatal mistake.
But let me go into another lesson Jonestown teachs.
Peace.
In Jonestown, Jim Jones exceeded the power he had over his group and took their lives. He went too far in his lust for power. Now believers in God are very gullible to this dynamic, espically those who have a " Called Out Mentality." You know, those who believe themselves to be annointed and chosen of God. Being a member of a group that believes themselves annointed, creates within yourself, a highly exalted opinion of yourself. This group can be a church, a website, or any kind of group dynamic which is accoustomed to exceeding the norm. The group conditions themselves to be overly. Overly Spiritual, overly wise, overly special, and overly filled with Gods Spirit. Thus, their look into scripture is " Overly", their foundational understanding of the bible is drawn from an aittitude of " Exceeding." God offers one step, they take two or three.
The Apostle Paul ran into called out churchs that were like this all the time. It affected Paul so much, that he began to boast himself, unwillingly, 2Corinth. 11:16-33. The people were constantly talking about how God had called and annointed them, how they were chosen, how they were the firstfruits, it went on and on, and Paul let it get to him. Because this selfish Spirit spreads quickly and powerfully. The spirit leads you to boast in yourself. Speak about your annointing, your calling, your talk you had with God last night. How good you are, how much you know. The flow of exceeding becomes your mentality. It becomes your biblical interpitation, and you begin to stake claims on Gods word.
And that leads to exceeding whats written.
Peace.
In 2Corinth. 10:5;" We are destroying Speculations and every Lofty thing that raised itself up against the knowledge of God." Speculation is human wisdom, human sense, human understanding. When you use these things to interpit scripture, then you open the door to yourself being lifted up to obtain all the things you are spiritually lusting for. And from this spirit, your mind begins to speculate on the bible, and that speculation is always lofty. Always messing with your head, always doing something " For you." So a large part of the speculations are concerning you, because you have placed yourself within the bible, you think its talking about you. So you take its promises, then you take more. And you take more, and you interpit more to mean its refering to you.
Then you start overextending your self worth, something Paul tried not to do in vs.14. You start going beyond the measure alloted to you, and now your a King of God on earth. The Spiritual mind of a King of God, walking around on earth in a fleshly body. The ego arked into a curve so high, that your view of scripture is densely tainted by this mentality, it flavors your selfishness with a deeply rooted spirituality that is " Way beyond what is intended."
The ego of exceeding, the very aittitude that created prosperity minded believers, born again minded people, the Kingdom now within crowds.
Peace.
In 1John 2:16, " The Boastful Pride of Life" is mentioned. That lust for spiritual power. That pride people take in being annointed of God. The proudness involved in being set apart by God, the exceedingly exalted self.
Rev.22:18-19;" If anyone adds to or takes away from this word of God, God shall add to them the curses contained within the book."
The human believer can become so involved in themselves being a believer, that their thoughts can exceed what is written within the bible, and they will think even that is inspired by God. The phycosis involved can be so powerful, that even the natural things that occur in your life, will be interpited as being spiritual. You will add spirituality to your own mind, and try to spread it to others. Bling bling, off you go into your greatly enlarged world of spirituality, and you start directing your own steps.
The steps that the demonic world wants you to take, is to exceed what is written in scripture, and to spread that message to all believers.
Peace.
It's genuinely exciting to be in the place of not having a thought that's independent of the New Testament. The LIFE never ends in every direction. :cloud9:
Are you talking of overly spiritual people?
If so I agree that can be so irritating. :mshock:
Then maybe I am just too much in the physical. :dontknow:
Exceeding what is written comes from a believer who is strong willed, or gullible to strong willed messages. A little bit of excessive interpitation of the bible, excesses the whole outlook you will have on the bible. Which is simply the " A little leaven leavens the whole lump" principle, 1Corinth. 5:6. What some are calling spirituality, is really puffed up leaven in their belief. Their shoes are spiritual, their clothes are spiritual, their house is spiritual, and the way they interpit scripture is spiritual. The way they get sick is spiritual, the food they eat is spiritual. They have leavened the whole lump. They have just gone all out, and their boasting is not good. Their pride is in their own lives, their own spirituality, their own knowledge.
From this standpoint, a person who is a committed believer, can be positioned to exceed what is written. They could probally write another book in the bible, because their minds become " Apostilic", they become a force unto themselves. Their evaluations of themselves exceed what is really there. Human wisdom will exceed Gods word, which is the real explination of why false doctrines exist.
Peace.
The mind of the exceeded believer is then a mind that thinks itself exalted in spiritual knowledge. That kind of mind is what distorts the scripture more effectively, not unbelieving minds. It distorts scripture, and it distorts its self identity. This is how religious deception has spread so quickly and perminently in human soceity. Believers of God who have set up countless religions, and this is thus a mainstay trick of the demonic world. To counter attack believers, not destroy their belief, but use it to distort themselves and the word of God. Not by dismissing the word of God, but by leading the believer to exceed what is written.
An attack mounted from the inside of belief.
And I want to get into that.
Peace.
In my view, the largest demonic attack mounted on believers in the 20th century, is false circumcision, or believing that they have the Holy Spirit when they do not. False identity, plastic knowledge and puffed up views of the bible. Phil. 3:2;" Beware of the False circumcision", or the cleansing offered by those forces other than God. Those forces that mimic God and use his word to mislead human minds. They play on the Spiritual greed of believers who lust for the things of God. Once they get there hands on a mind like this, they will lead them through a different path in the bible. A different outlook of it, always offering that the look is given by God, when it is really given by the most experienced deceptive forces alive.
An attack mounted from the inside of belief.
Peace.
False circumcision, or the things we use to create and maintain our spirituality. Even the belief in Universal Salvation can be a false circumcision. The belief itself can provide false identity. Any doctrine can be a false circumcision, because it has been exalted beyond its norm and is now worshipped, like sabbath keeping or the Law. Universalism- the modernday sabbath theology-, welds its own attraction to those who have exalted themselves, and thus need an exalted belief.
And I want to get into that.
Peace.
I recall going to a website that believed in Universal Salvation a few years ago. I won't mention its name, but I recall a vistor comming to this website and asking others there how she can know if God is calling her to the truth. They told her that the fact that she came to their website is proof that God is calling her. I took exception to this and disagree with them. Not concerning the womans possible calling, but the point of them including themselves in her calling. They had placed themselves into an area as the proof of people being called. They made their place a calling of God, which is exceeding what is written. No one can come to Christ, or be called, unless the Father first calls them himself. That is the ONLY path given in scripture, but this website has included itself into that mix.
I have seen other believers, just outright tell newly interested curious people who are beginning to believe, that they ARE being called by God. As if THEY can see it, decide it for God, and thus hold the right to tell others that they are being called by God. This gall is easy for them to have, because they have called themselves too, so they can tell you your being called of God.
This type of mentality, when first crossing over into belief in Universal Salvation, can really spread like a monolith that gets all inside of human belief. Thus, Universalist must be a favorite target of the demonic deceptors that be. If they get one of them, they can really do some damage to others who are looking to get away from the same old stuff that religion offers, and are attracted to some new stuff that Universalism offers. Oh you can really cause this kind of believer, a universalist, to get into some false circumcision, because the " Set Apart mentality" is already waiting for them through the tradition that already exist within the belief.
Tradition, or the history of a belief, can be an attack mounted on the belief from the inside.
Peace.
The aittitude of exceeding what is written is born from a blind confidence, a zeal for God, just not according to Gods true knowledge. 1Tim.1:7;" Wanting to be teachers of the Law, even though they do not understand either what they are saying or the matters about which they make confident assertions." Strange that someone would want to be a teacher of God, and yet really don't know what they are talking about. Yet still speak confidently and boldly, as if they do know what they are speaking on. Certain believers exceed what is written because they really don't understand what is written.
They get into fruitless discussions, always ending in fruitless arguements. It is one thing to be ignorant in unbelief, but when your ignorant in belief, your words can never be trusted.
The aittitude of exceeding what is written also is born from Conceit.1Tim. 3:6 speaks about becomming a prey to satan because of Conceit. Spiritual conceit is an exaggerated opinion of ones own worth or importance, and oh what exaggerated doctrines and beliefs this has brought forth. Believers have exaggerated the favor of God himself and are continually exaggerating scripture to their own selfish means.
And I want to go into that.
Peace.
Notice very closely 1Tim.6:3-4; "If anyone advocates a different doctrine ( such as Universalism, which is a very different doctrine) and yet does not agree with sound words, ESPICALLY those of our Lord Jesus Christ, and with the doctrine conforming to godliness, this person is just conceited ( or has an overated spiritual opinion of themselves) and really understands nothing. But often will have a morbid intrest in controversial questions and disputes about mere words, which always result in envy, strife, abusive language and evil suspicions toward each other."
You ever notice how so many believers avoid the words of Christ himself? As if they see no soundness comming from Christ, as if ther other writers in the bible are more sound than Christ. Actually many believers don't really agree with Christ. They have become conceited, actually believing that they understand more than our Lord.
You ever notice how certain believers always have questions which are controversial, and they have a weird intrest in those questions, and just as morbidly seem to feed off of the strife it causes. From these types of conversations, the exceeding of what has been written is born.
I want to go into perhaps the most abusive exceeding of what has been written, when believers " Spiritualize the written meaning of the word."
Peace.
Naturally those who believe that they have Gods Spirit, are going to believe that their words, their sufferings, their whole life is Spiritual. They then think that the way they interpit Gods word is Spiritual.
I think this is one of the most profound deceptions that has ever existed. What we think and believe. The deception of the Christian mind, the believers work will be burned up, but they themselves shall be saved. The seduction of the Christian mind has always intrested me. 20 years ago I wrote an article about this, sent it to Time magazine, and it got cut on the last editing stage it had to go through, they thought it to be to potentialy insulting to Christians. I decided then to never write for magazines again, because the truth is never honored, only feared and abused.
In 1Corinth. 2:13;" Which things we speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but those taught by the Spirit, combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words." Now see heres the thing: as I have stated before, those who profess God, and profess to be Spiritual, MUST then personally claim to have the Spirit of God, or they know their religion is in vain, their belief is in vain. If they want to be spiritually valid, they must tell themselves AND others, that they posess the Spirit of God, or their worst fears will come into reality, they know they will not be Gods. This is the real challange to every believer, and it is also what every believer avoids and glosses over, their assumptions become stronger than their real evalutation of themselves.
They KNOW that if they do not have Gods Spirit, then they must admit to the largest deception ever to lay hold of them.
And it is my personal belief that this is what God the Father is going to use to SHOCK the world of believers! Hes going to show believers that he didNOT give them his Spirit, and call out the most ignoble people on earth, a bunch of sinners who don't deserve it. And hes going to show humanity what really having his Spirit will do to a human.
Then the air will be removed from the false puffed up believers who claimed to hold what they didnot. Then everyone will see the emperors robe, and see how vain they have been.
This will be a crushing day for believers, because their assumptive rein will end. And a new era of sinners forgiven will begin. The real Spirit of God will begin to teach, and real understanding will be dispensated. Real freedom will begin.
And I want to get into that.
Peace.
Part of the mystery of the ages is that the Spirit of God has not been personally given to as many who claim it has. 1Corinth. 3:13;" Each mans work will become " Evident", for the day will show it, because it is to be revealed with Fire; AND, the fire ITSELF will test the quality of each persons work ( Work- Life, personal claiming of having Gods Spirit, the things you then taught, the doctrines you started, the churchs you started, the ways and means by which you helped others and what your imput did to them). Did you add deception to their walk or did you add truth?
If the Spirit of God is " In you", then it REMAINS, vs.14- If any mans work which he has built on REMAINS, he shall receive a reward." If the Spirit of God simply vists you, or is " With you", that will become evident to you then.
Its not evident to people now because their ego is larger within them than Gods pressence.
And I want to tap on that.
Peace.
There are really then two kinds of believers, two kinds of ministry; Belief built by self and belief built by God. Doctrines built by men and doctrines built by God. There is Gods timetable, Gods explination of scripture, and there is humans timetable and human explination of Gods word.
Heres one truth I will share; If you have Gods Spirit, you never have to tell a sole and prove it to anyone. Conversely, those who do not, MUST tell as many as they can, and prove it to themselves and the world. And this is just wisdom, its just how it is.
Look at 1Corinth. 3:16;" Do you KNOW that you are a Temple of God and that the Spirit Dwells in You?" Do you KNOW that? You'd better not be deceiving yourself, this is serious, vs 18;"Let no man deceive himself. If any amoung you thinks that they are wise in this age, let him become foolish that he may become wise." In other words, if you really want Gods Spirit, you'd better learn how to admit that you don't have it in this age, and you will receive it in the age to come.
You can deceive yourself in this most important area.
And I want to show more of how that is done.
Peace.
Deception of self is rampant amoungst believers in God. Because deception of self spirals upwards, the self is honored and glorified. Again Jesus in Luke 16:15;" You are those who justify yourselves in the sight of men, but God knows your hearts; for that which is highly esteemed amoung men( like having Gods Spirit is the highest esteem possible) is detestable in the sight of God."
The justification of self is a slick deception amoungst believers in God, because they not only justify themselves, they use the scripture to support their justification. And thats just yet another way to exceed what is written. There is an intense NEED for these believers to justify themselves to other believers, because it gives them " Spiritual Class and esteem" amoung men, and it feeds their addictive like yearning to be what the bible discusses.
As the dead bury the dead, the believers who intensely need this esteem give life to each other.
And I want to get into that other side of fellowship.
Peace.
Its just this simple to exceed what has been written. Again Jesus in Luke 10:9-11 tells his followers to proclaim the Kingdom of God and say to them " The Kingdom of God is " Near you". It has come near. But now we have believers who have exceeded that, try to spiritualize that, into meaning that the Kingdom of God is " In You", not near you as Jesus commanded. 1Tim.6:3-4 they do not agree with the sound words of even our Lord Jesus.
So then to " Spiritualize", in many cases really means to exceed what is written. People are becomming " Spiritual" by exceedinng what the word of God states. Going above and beyond, and believing that is what God desires for them to do.
And I certainly want to get into that.
Peace.
Most believers gain some weird kind of confidence when they can claim the truth that they believe, as opposed to the deception that others believe, such as eternal burning hell. They view themselves as more blessed because they do not believe in carnal doctrines, but yet they cannot see their own misuse of scripture, as if God excuses them because they do not believe in eternal torture. This is not being " Spiritual", its misguided confidence. You can see the spot in others eyes, but can't see the log in yours.
Its not what you believe that makes you known as an annointed disciple of Christ, its not your vaunted knowledge, its not you believing in Universal Salvation and rejecting the doctrines of hell, NONE of these are a sign of being Christ disciple.
Again Jesus in John 13:35 " By THIS all men will know ( and you can know) that you are my disciple ( or called and chosen) if you have LOVE for each other." Now this is what Jesus taught, its the sign of your annointing that Jesus gave. But you can't steal Love, you can't mimic Love, you can counterfit Love, you can't act out Love, either you have it or you don't. Either your annointed or your not. You cannot exceed Love, and what the bible writes about it.
And I want to go into that, the ONLY sign of the Annointing that Jesus gave.
Peace.
I don't see believers exceeding what is written about Love in the Scriptures. Their not doing that, they can't boast about that. Again Jesus in John 5:39-42, believers are searching the scriptures because in the bible they think that they have eternal life, but they are unwilling to consider Jesus teachings, because Jesus will not receive glory from men, he cannot be pacified or manipulated by believers. He said in vs. 42," But I know you, that you do not have the Love of God in you." Jesus was teaching this in a Temple of believers, 5:14.
Believers who do not have the Love of God in them.
Thats the true sign of total conversion, Love. Its a literal commandment from Christ, John 15:12. You cannot be annointed of God unless you abide in his Love, its the ONLY way possible! Knowledge and belief won't get it. We can only be glorified by the Love of God and Christ. There are no exceptions to this. AND, no imatations of it.
So I want to go into this Love.
Peace.
You can call the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, the growth of Love and Hatred. The principles of that tree, IS Love and Hate. Thats what was planted. Its what intrest God, its what God is ultimately teaching. When hate exceeds Love, you learn destruction. When Love exceeds Hate, you are on the path of Righteousness.
Love and Hate contrasted, that IS the tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil.
You can use either method to study God and his Word. Either way can be lived in your Life, either can become a great influence to you. And BOTH are on the tree, both are looking to be the root interpitation of how you view Gods Word.
And I want to get into that.
Peace.
The knowledge of Good and evil, or Love and Hate, these are the true inroads of Conversion. The true Annointing of God will instill a true working Knowledge of these two things. When God decides to give his Spirit, he will give the human mind the ability to disect these two dynamics. 1John 2:20;" You have an Annointing from the Holy One, and you will Know." Your going to know certain things, its going to come together, not based on your Knowledge, but on your Annointing. The Annointing will give you Knowledge, yes, but when Knowledge comes before the Annointing, then the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, or Love and Hate, is not properly discerned.
Vs.27;"The Annointing which you received from God abides in you,( This is when a person has Gods Spirit residing IN them constantly, and only then) you have absolutely no need for anyone to teach you; because his Annointing teaches you about all things, that are true or False, which again is just the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, or true and False, Love and Hate. The two great contrast.
This is again a true sign of Conversion, when you never are again in a position of needing to learn something about God from anyonelse. You never have to ask Spiritual questions again from anyone, you never need to know from anyone, nothing Spiritually will ever need to be explained to you again. ALL Spiritual Knowledge will be imparted into you from God, ALL THINGS will be taught to you directly. This is why I know a lot of believers who claim to have Gods Spirit, really do not, because they still need to be tuaght things. This would be proof to them that they do not have it, but they don't have that kind of honest, humble ability to come to this point of confession, so they live in illusion, and will never properly discern the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, they will not discern Gods Love.
And I want to go into that.
Peace.
Hi Mickel ,
can you exceed what is written by the Letter of the Law ?
Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency [is] of God;
2Cr 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter kills, but the spirit gives life.
2Cr 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written [and] engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which [glory] was to be done away:
2Cr 3:8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
2Cr 3:9 For if the ministration of condemnation [be] glory,
much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
Quote from: rosered on January 04, 2009, 09:02:52 PM
Hi Mickel ,
can you exceed what is written by the Letter of the Law ?
Well yes, by the letter of the Law, which really means line for line or what we can plainly adhere to and understand, or by the Spirit, which means " Influence", the powers that indulge our minds, by which our thoughts are caught up and inticed. People exceed, or go beyond what is plainly written, and then they are being moved by the influence in the mind, which is not always God. Often it is our own self interpitation, our own self desires, our own greed for Spiritual things, that exceed what is written.
We lust for Spiritual things, just as we lust for physical things.
James 1:14;" But each one is tempted and CARRIED away and enticed by his OWN lust for things."The " Carried away" , is the exceeding. When our lust for Spiritual things goes beyond what God has timed, then we can loose our " Footing", no longer properly grounded, we can be carried away, past and beyond Gods intent for us now! And from this point comes the " Exceeding", we are not really in control, our lust and desire is .
Peace.
wow :thumbsup: I can certainly agree with what you said Mickel
the letter / literal kills
In Genesis 2:16-17 God told the couple that they may eat freely from any tree in the garden, but not to eat from the tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, that wouldnot be a " Free Meal", it would cost some serious things, including the death of Christ. Here the habit of " Exceeding in humanity" was born, going beyond what God has said. Here the couple exceeded the verbal word of God, and took more than they should have. Believers now a days take from God and exceed the written word, they take the things that they see and most desire in the Bible.
Things like Speaking in Tounges, being Born Again, having the Spirit of God, having Gods Kingdom within you, all these are fruits on the tree of the Bible, which believers are taking everyday. Because we think they are freely given, they are they for the taking, just sitting right there in the bible.
The seed of exceeding is whats really within man, the seed of taking from God.
And I want to go onto that.
Peace.
In all of my current studies, and past studies, the most interesting dynamic to me, is the tendency of believers in God to assume so much about themselves and their relationship with God and the Bible. The assumptions, often brash and erupting, have taken on a life of their own and developed a unique personality , revrealing the ability of believing humans to usurp things of God, place themselves into the bible, and thus claim all of its promises, thinking nothing in the light that they may be presumptive. Just a seemingly " Naturally ingrained exceeding of Gods Word", and this has be so EASILY accomplished, so very well done, my suspicions are just off of the scale of my curosity. Meaning I just know God had something to do with it.
When a great power, achieves a great deception, yeilding astoundingly great results, then I always suspect God. When so many believers are duped into themselves, when so many cannot see truth about themselves, then something has blinded them to the truth of themselves.
In my view, belief in God is more of a weird matter of " Spiritual Greed", than it is a Love for him.
And I want to explain that.
Peace.
I have never in my Life met a believer in God who had exceeding Love for the world of unbelievers. Never. I have met believers who talk about unbelievers like dogs. I have met believers who hold themselves up higher than all others, and have a good highminded biblical view of themselves, but I have NEVER met a believer in God who was like Christ.
Jesus in Matt. 15:32 felt a natural Love for the multitude of humans he ran into. It was natural to him, just his way of being.
I have met believers in God who CLAIM themselves to be like Christ, which I view as just another way they have of exceeding what is really true. Believers now have redefined what a follower of God is. The common group aittitude has developed and morphed into a weird kind of Greed, always talking about what God is going to do for them, or has done for them. Like a spoiled offspring of a rich person, believers are gluping up the promises of God with a ferice ravegous appitite. I got this and I got that, I am this and I am that, just selfishness upon selfishness, all masked by their belief, so its excused and accepted as being " Spiritual."
Often to me its like looking at something so ugly, which personally thinks itself to be bueatiful, I just have to turn away from looking at it.
Like a " Spiritual Medusa", so ugly it can turn your view into stone. Take all the Life out of your Joy.
Peace.
Even the Gospel message itself has morphed and changed from the Good News of Gods comming Kingdom, into now-- how the believers have taken that Kingdom into themselves! The Gospel is no longer about Jesus saving sinners, now its about how God has called out and chosen a group. The attention of the message has been turned " Inside out", now believers are going around boasting about whats in them, and not about God soon comming into this world.
Believers are exceeding their belief, and falling in Love with self adulation, self being raised, self being rewarded, self being Spiritually passified.
Peace.
If you raise up a child, and start filling their young heads with " I am going to give you this", and I am going to make you that, what do you think you are doing? What are you creating within your child? I'm going to give you riches, I am going to make you a King, I am going to give you the Power to Heal, I am going to give you power to perform miricles. I am going to give you more Knowledge than anyonelse, make you invincible and sin free. If you raise up your children telling them all of these things, how do you think their characther and mind will turn out?
Are they going to be spoiled? Are they going to be self indulged? What is their confidence going to be like, will it exceed their reality, because of all the gifts offered?
Just take a closer look at the world of believers, and you will see what has been created.
Peace.
One of the most interesting programs on cable that I am attracted to with intense intrest is American Greed. It shows how people get caught up in scams because of their greed, following the promise of their investments growing. Greed, how the expectations of " Getting More" is a great lure to people.
It also is a reflection of " Spiritual Greed", what the expectations of " Getting More From God", can cause in a believer. The true orgin of exceeding what is written in believers.
Peace.
Hi Mickel ,
been reading some of your posts here
and agree no one should think that much of themselves
God judges our hearts and sees what is in them dark and empty places and He is the Light thats fills it and than we can really see how dead and empty we really are
greedy people they are the same that the bible calls covetous
now thats a word most never ever see them selves being but i have been and still am in alot of ways and hate it
When will God change us Mickel?
Do you hate Christians ?
Quote from: rosered on January 09, 2009, 04:40:18 AM
Hi Mickel ,
been reading some of your posts here
and agree no one should think that much of themselves
God judges our hearts and sees what is in them dark and empty places and He is the Light thats fills it and than we can really see how dead and empty we really are
greedy people they are the same that the bible calls covetous
now thats a word most never ever see them selves being but i have been and still am in alot of ways and hate it
When will God change us Mickel?
Do you hate Christians ?
Most of us will be changed only after Jesus will return, and with some of them the process will only take a second. With a few, the process could begin before he returns. And with some of them, the process could take 50 years or shorter. It could take anywhere from 70 years to just a few, its something no human could put a number on and be exact.
No I do not hate Christians, but I do however strongly dislike the emotional claim of having Gods Spirit, when the person has done nothing to prove it to themselves, and they really don't have it. I feel this to be the number one deception that satan has used to infiltrate the comming of the Truth, and to gain major inroads into the minds of spirit coveting believers.
Peace.
Quote from: Mickiel on January 09, 2009, 04:13:53 PM
Quote from: rosered on January 09, 2009, 04:40:18 AM
Hi Mickel ,
been reading some of your posts here
and agree no one should think that much of themselves
God judges our hearts and sees what is in them dark and empty places and He is the Light thats fills it and than we can really see how dead and empty we really are
greedy people they are the same that the bible calls covetous
now thats a word most never ever see them selves being but i have been and still am in alot of ways and hate it
When will God change us Mickel?
Do you hate Christians ?
Most of us will be changed only after Jesus will return, and with some of them the process will only take a second. With a few, the process could begin before he returns. And with some of them, the process could take 50 years or shorter. It could take anywhere from 70 years to just a few, its something no human could put a number on and be exact.
No I do not hate Christians, but I do however strongly dislike the emotional claim of having Gods Spirit, when the person has done nothing to prove it to themselves, and they really don't have it. I feel this to be the number one deception that satan has used to infiltrate the comming of the Truth, and to gain major inroads into the minds of spirit coveting believers.
Peace.
I do believe that when the Truth comes , it cannot be hid or denied Mickel it is a Light that makes the darkness dissapear
NCV
Jesus Is the Light of the World
12 Later, Jesus talked to the people again, saying,
"I am the light of the world. The person who follows me will never live in darkness but will have the light that gives life." 13 The Pharisees said to Jesus, "When you talk about yourself, you are the only one to say these things are true.
We cannot accept what you say." 14 Jesus answered, "Yes, I am saying these things about myself,
but they are true. I know where I came from and where I am going. But you don't know where I came from or where I am going.
15
You judge by human standards.
I am not judging anyone.
16
But when I do judge, I judge truthfully, because I am not alone. The Father who sent me is with me. 17 Your own law says that when two witnesses say the same thing, you must accept what they say.
18
I am one of the witnesses who speaks about myself,
and the Father who sent me is the other witness."
19 They asked, "Where is your father?" Jesus answered, "You don't know me or my Father.
If you knew me, you would know my Father, too."
20 Jesus said these things while he was teaching in the Temple, near where the money is kept.
But no one arrested him, because the right time for him had not yet come.
The People Misunderstand Jesus
21 Again, Jesus said to the people, "I will leave you, and you will look for me, but you will die in your sins. You cannot come where I am going."
22 So the Jews asked, "Will he kill himself? Is that why he said, 'You cannot come where I am going' ?"
23 Jesus said, "
You people are from here below, but I am from above. You belong to this world, but I don't belong to this world.
24 So I told you that you would die in your sins. Yes, you will die in your sins if you don't believe that I am he."
25 They asked, "Then who are you?"
Jesus answered,
"I am what I have told you from the beginning. 26
I have many things to say and decide about you. But I tell people only the things I have heard from the One who sent me, and he speaks the truth." 27
The people did not understand that he was talking to them about the Father. 28 So Jesus said to them,
"
When you lift up the Son of Man, you will know that I am he. You will know that these things I do are not by my own authority but that I say only what the Father has taught me. 29 The One who sent me is with me. I always do what is pleasing to him, so he has not left me alone." 30 While Jesus was saying these things, many people believed in him.
Freedom from Sin
31 So Jesus said to the Jews who believed in him, "
If you continue to obey my teaching, you are truly my followers. 32 Then you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free." 33
They answered, "We are Abraham's children, and we have never been anyone's slaves. So why do you say we will be free?" 34 Jesus answered,
"I tell you the truth, everyone who lives in sin is a slave to sin. 35 A slave does not stay with a family forever, but a son belongs to the family forever.36 So if the Son makes you free, you will be truly free.37 I know you are Abraham's children, but you want to kill me because you don't accept my teaching. 38 I am telling you what my Father has shown me, but you do what your father has told you." 39 They answered, "Our father is Abraham."
Jesus said, "If you were really Abraham's children, you would do[a] the things Abraham did.
40 I am a man who has told you the truth which I heard from God, but you are trying to kill me. Abraham did nothing like that. 41 So you are doing the things your own father did." But they said, "We are not like children who never knew who their father was. God is our Father; he is the only Father we have."
42 Jesus said to them,
"If God were really your Father, you would love me, because I came from God and now I am here. I did not come by my own authority; God sent me. 43 You don't understand what I say, because you cannot accept my teaching.
44
You belong to your father the devil, and you want to do what he wants. He was a murderer from the beginning and was against the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he tells a lie, he shows what he is really like, because he is a liar and the father of lies.45 But because I speak the truth, you don't believe me.
46 Can any of you prove that I am guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don't you believe me? 47
The person who belongs to God accepts what God says. But you don't accept what God says, because you don't belong to God." THIS is how everyone will know Mickel the Truth , being born of Spirit and truth is of God and Jesus that is what would cause them to die , because they killed Jesus and it will happen to you too if you believe ,they kill with their LIES
lies kill the Truth Jesus said it here for us to alos believe Him , He is the Truth , but they could never kill the incorruptible SEED OF GOD , because to the Glory of God He can raise them up AGAIN to Life
that is what makes God powerful and wonderful and to be believed to me
peace .. rose
Quote from: Mickiel on December 31, 2008, 08:13:13 PM
The bible is the written Word of God and one of the most common reactions of a believer who reads it, is to exceed what was written. Or " Adding to " Gods Word. And most common is the tendency to add things that add to yourself. Add rewards to yourself, gifts to yourself, Spiritual talents to yourself. 1 Corinth. 4:6;"Now these things bretheren, I have figuratively applied to myself and Appollos for your sakes, that in us you might learn not to Exceed what is written." Paul was trying to give an Apostlic example of humility and Patience because the believers were claiming all sorts of things, just instilling all kinds of beliefs that their spiritual greed couldnot contain.
In general I do not disagree here. But how I take the verse is instruction to not use real spiritual gifts (as opposed to just claims) in a way that is self gratifying.
This is indeed difficult because when we use our gifts we often want recognition for it. I would love to be able to heal the whole world, but I also know that if I had that power I would want the whole world to know about it. lol
My mom laid her hands on my sister and instantly healed her of her migranes, that was 10 years ago and she has never had one since. But my mom will not talk about it, and my mom doesn't think that just because a person has the gift of healing that you will be able to heal everyone. I suspect that my mom has healed more people than my sister, but she is led by the spirit to do it as God instructs. But my mom will not talk about it, ever.
Interesting that this thread comes along at this time as I havent known about this healing of my sister for but a short time.
I only know about my sisters healing because she told me and doesn't tell very many people because she knows that it could bring attention to my mom that she does not want.
There are some who might think that my mom is withholding her gift, but that also would be a self serving opinion I believe. Because what happens when my mom doesn't heal someone?
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on January 09, 2009, 07:03:58 PM
Quote from: Mickiel on December 31, 2008, 08:13:13 PM
The bible is the written Word of God and one of the most common reactions of a believer who reads it, is to exceed what was written. Or " Adding to " Gods Word. And most common is the tendency to add things that add to yourself. Add rewards to yourself, gifts to yourself, Spiritual talents to yourself. 1 Corinth. 4:6;"Now these things bretheren, I have figuratively applied to myself and Appollos for your sakes, that in us you might learn not to Exceed what is written." Paul was trying to give an Apostlic example of humility and Patience because the believers were claiming all sorts of things, just instilling all kinds of beliefs that their spiritual greed couldnot contain.
In general I do not disagree here. But how I take the verse is instruction to not use real spiritual gifts (as opposed to just claims) in a way that is not self gratifying.
This is indeed difficult because when we use our gifts we often want recognition for it. I would love to be able to heal the whole world, but I also know that if I had that power I would want the whole world to know about it. lol
My mom laid her hands on my sister and instantly healed her of her migranes, that was 10 years ago and she has never had one since. But my mom will not talk about it, and my mom doesn't think that just because a person has the gift of healing that you will be able to heal everyone. I suspect that my mom has healed more people than my sister, but she is led by the spirit to do it as God instructs. But my mom will not talk about it, ever.
Interesting that this thread comes along at this time as I havent known about this healing of my sister for but a short time.
I only know about my sisters healing because she told me and doesn't tell very many people because she knows that it could bring attention to my mom that she does not want.
There are some who might think that my mom is withholding her gift, but that also would be a self serving opinion I believe. Because what happens when my mom doesn't heal someone?
awesome witness Paul and true ! Praise God
I too have had my daughter healed by the Lord , no man did this but God , for he purposes everyone for His own will , and I dont brag about it to anyone either this Glory is for God and to Him only
thanks for sharing Jesus does still heal , it is just not some big spectacle and show to go bragging about , but quietly thanking God and be greatful and humbled by His love and compassion on us .....
Corinthians 4
Apostles Are Servants of Christ
1 People should think of us as servants of Christ, the ones God has trusted with his secrets.
2 Now in this way those who are trusted with something valuable must show they are worthy of that trust.
3 As for myself, I do not care if I am judged by you or by any human court. I do not even judge myself.
4 I know of no wrong I have done, but this does not make me right before the Lord. The Lord is the One who judges me.
5
So do not judge before the right time; wait until the Lord comes. He will bring to light things that are now hidden in darkness, and will make known the secret purposes of people's hearts. Then God will praise each one of them. 6 Brothers and sisters, I have used Apollos and myself as examples so you could learn through us the meaning of the saying, "Follow only what is written in the Scriptures."
Then you will not be more proud of one person than another.7 Who says you are better than others? What do you have that was not given to you? And if it was given to you, why do you brag as if you did not receive it as a gift?
8 You think you already have everything you need. You think you are rich. You think you have become kings without us. I wish you really were kings so we could be kings together with you.9 But it seems to me that God has put us apostles in last place, like those sentenced to die. We are like a show for the whole world to see—angels and people.10 We are fools for Christ's sake, but you are very wise in Christ. We are weak, but you are strong. You receive honor, but we are shamed.11 Even to this very hour we do not have enough to eat or drink or to wear. We are often beaten, and we have no homes in which to live.12 We work hard with our own hands for our food. When people curse us, we bless them. When they hurt us, we put up with it.13 When they tell evil lies about us, we speak nice words about them. Even today, we are treated as though we were the garbage of the world—the filth of the earth.
Certain believers exceed what is written because inwardly they think they are " Better than sinners and unbelievers". As if they have not sinned, have reached a point of sinlessness. Romans 3:9-12" What then? Are we better than they? Not at all; for we have already charged that both Jews and Greeks are all under sin. There is NONE righteous, not even one. There is none who understands, there is none who seeks God, ALL have turned aside, together they have become useless, there is none who does Good, not even one." This is a true discription of humanity at its core, both believer and unbeliever.
Now, believers would like to seperate themselves from this discription, and claim that they are righteous, and that this does not discribe them. Because they think they know God, they feel like they understand God. So in order to publically show their understanding of God, they start getting into explaining scripture and showcasing their own lives. And they , through this dynamic, always exceed what is written. Because when self is exalted, scripture is abused. There is no fear of God in their eyes, because their eyes are full of themselves. How spiritual they are.
The devil can do an awful lot with this kind of mentality, and hardly ever be seen while hes doing it.
Peace.
Quote from: Mickiel on January 09, 2009, 07:54:35 PM
Certain believers exceed what is written because inwardly they think they are " Better than sinners and unbelievers". As if they have not sinned, have reached a point of sinlessness. Romans 3:9-12" What then? Are we better than they? Not at all; for we have already charged that both Jews and Greeks are all under sin. There is NONE righteous, not even one. There is none who understands, there is none who seeks God, ALL have turned aside, together they have become useless, there is none who does Good, not even one." This is a true discription of humanity at its core, both believer and unbeliever.
Now, believers would like to seperate themselves from this discription, and claim that they are righteous, and that this does not discribe them. Because they think they know God, they feel like they understand God. So in order to publically show their understanding of God, they start getting into explaining scripture and showcasing their own lives. And they , through this dynamic, always exceed what is written. Because when self is exalted, scripture is abused. There is no fear of God in their eyes, because their eyes are full of themselves. How spiritual they are.
The devil can do an awful lot with this kind of mentality, and hardly ever be seen while hes doing it.
Peace.
Hi Mickel
and I agree when self righteousness is what makes anyone
Think they are in victory over death and above everyone else
I do think that is when God will deal with them the most and it will not be a pleasent experience for them to go though at all
but them that are overcome really overcome by it all , Jesus will have mercy on them and they will be saved by His doings and none other
the devil hides in the dark places of the heart and mind , when the Light / knowledge of Christ comes
the devil has no place to go in them any more
the devil has to look for someone else to tempt and accuse before God
no one gets away scott free , we are all judged by God
[quote author=rosered link
the devil hides in the dark places of the heart and mind , when the Light / knowledge of Christ comes
the devil has no place to go in them any more
the devil has to look for someone else to tempt and accuse before God
no one gets away scott free , we are all judged by God
[/quote]
I think its true that the devil hides in the dark places in the mind, but I also believe he hides in the Light as well. Its not limited to darkness only, he will come into the Light. He will get into your Spiritual thoughts, he will mix and blend into your light, and make you think he is God. I also believe that the knowledge of God does not cancel out the devils influence. I don't see a point in a believer that the devil won't have anymore to do with them. As if he has no place to go in them anymore, as if they are now " Devil Free", invulnerable or unable to be tempted. I don't see that in a believer, that level of protection. I believe satan has to be totally removed from the environment, and then a human could be free of him.
If a believer can reach that point without satan being removed from the earth, then I certainly don't know about such a point of being.
Peace.
Quote from: Mickiel on January 09, 2009, 09:36:01 PM
[quote author=rosered link
the devil hides in the dark places of the heart and mind , when the Light / knowledge of Christ comes
the devil has no place to go in them any more
the devil has to look for someone else to tempt and accuse before God
no one gets away scott free , we are all judged by God
I think its true that the devil hides in the dark places in the mind, but I also believe he hides in the Light as well. Its not limited to darkness only, he will come into the Light. He will get into your Spiritual thoughts, he will mix and blend into your light, and make you think he is God. I also believe that the knowledge of God does not cancel out the devils influence. I don't see a point in a believer that the devil won't have anymore to do with them. As if he has no place to go in them anymore, as if they are now " Devil Free", invulnerable or unable to be tempted. I don't see that in a believer, that level of protection. I believe satan has to be totally removed from the environment, and then a human could be free of him.
If a believer can reach that point without satan being removed from the earth, then I certainly don't know about such a point of being.
Peace.
[/quote] I appreciate you answering Mickel ,
and am enjoying the conversation with you
I would believe that some what except how much the scriptures say that it is not possible for the darkness and light to have fellowship together ?
maybe God seperates this from us some how ?
when we are tempted of the devil we are to resist his influences?
what you you think about this verse ?
Jam 4:7
Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. Jam 4:8
Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse [your] hands, [ye] sinners; and purify [your] hearts, [ye] double minded.
Jam 4:9 Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and [your] joy to heaviness.
Jam 4:10
Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up. Jam 4:11
Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of [his] brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge. there is lots to learn and do and wait on the Lord for our help , I think some do get to break free from the devils influences in the earth
Do you think God can allow this to happen ?
God bless you Mickel .. his peace rose
[quote author=rosered
there is lots to learn and do and wait on the Lord for our help , I think some do get to break free from the devils influences in the earth
Do you think God can allow this to happen ?
God bless you Mickel .. his peace rose
[/quote]
Well I think its possible, I just have never seen it myself. I mean with God all things are possible, I just have never known him to bring a human in our time to such a point, and not many in biblical history. Perhaps Job was brought there, but I doubt anyonelse except Jesus. Well you name those you know of for me. Are you free of the devils influence? Who do you know thats free? I mean thebible holds some lofty goals, but who do you know has met them?
Peace.
I am not sure we can ever be completely free, but I know I have made breakthroughs in areas that I no longer struggle with.
Whether or not that is freedom in Christ I will not try to debate, if being free from drugs and alchohol without any lingering struggle with them at all is not freedom, then I suppose there is none indeed. ;)
What I believe personally is that people can be freed of those things and it is Gods doing, in Christ, or the holy spirit, whatever it may be , it is from God. I also believe that it is not necessary for the person to believe it is God, for it to be God.
My main point in that is often believers think that before you can have any type of freedom in life you must conform to the religiousness of accepting Christ and such and I do not believe that. Mainly because I had no thought to Christ or god when I was delivered from the addictions mentioned above, but later in life I know there was no other source of delieverance.
Once we realize (even if we are not completely free) that God accounts for everything we do, then we can see all of life in a whole different perspective.
Quote from: Mickiel on January 10, 2009, 12:22:51 AM
[quote author=rosered
there is lots to learn and do and wait on the Lord for our help , I think some do get to break free from the devils influences in the earth
Do you think God can allow this to happen ?
God bless you Mickel .. his peace rose
Well I think its possible, I just have never seen it myself. I mean with God all things are possible, I just have never known him to bring a human in our time to such a point, and not many in biblical history. Perhaps Job was brought there, but I doubt anyonelse except Jesus. Well you name those you know of for me. Are you free of the devils influence? Who do you know thats free? I mean thebible holds some lofty goals, but who do you know has met them?
Peace.
[/quote] wow good questions Mickel!
I am not sure if I can answer them bro ,
but i will try when I look at my husband , I see a spiritual man that is holy to God , this man prays to God and is humble and he is the closest I ever saw , I see His heart and it is a good one , this man keeps his conscience clean before God ,
but that was not the way he was before , God did change him but he also stayed in the Lord too I dont think the devil influences him anymore
yet my husband would say he is not a holy man , that only God is holy
so I wonder Mickel maybe only God can say who is holy and who is not ? maybe our job is to keep trying to be what God asks of us to be for him ? I believe we have 2 bodies and inward spiritual body being born again into the spirit and an outward physical/flesh body one is clean and holy to God and the other is not , no flesh pleases God
what do you say about that? do you believe this is possible with God ?
thanks for sharing , rose
Paul wrote ;
QuoteMy main point in that is often believers think that before you can have any type of freedom in life you must conform to the religiousness of accepting Christ and such and I do not believe that. Mainly because I had no thought to Christ or god when I was delivered from the addictions mentioned above, but later in life I know there was no other source of delieverance.
Once we realize (even if we are not completely free) that God accounts for everything we do, then we can see all of life in a whole different perspective.
That is true Paul , we can see with new eyes [perspecive] when we let God do it and not let everyone else tell you what is God and what is not God
I have had some horrid things I have done in life and some horrid things done to me
and I am glad they are no longer the things I stuggle with
I am not depressed anylonger as I had been for so many many years
I am so glad that part is over and Do give God the credit for this
peace .. rose
[quote author=rosered link
so I wonder Mickel maybe only God can say who is holy and who is not ? maybe our job is to keep trying to be what God asks of us to be for him ? I believe we have 2 bodies and inward spiritual body being born again into the spirit and an outward physical/flesh body one is clean and holy to God and the other is not , no flesh pleases God
what do you say about that? do you believe this is possible with God ?
thanks for sharing , rose
[/quote]
Well I think your right there, let God be the one who claims others Holy, and not we ourselves. I sure willnot listen to those who claim it. And I do not believe we have two bodies, but we are influenced by two powers. We only have one body, the Spirit has no body.
Peace.
Quote from: Mickiel on January 10, 2009, 12:56:25 AM
[quote author=rosered link
so I wonder Mickel maybe only God can say who is holy and who is not ? maybe our job is to keep trying to be what God asks of us to be for him ? I believe we have 2 bodies and inward spiritual body being born again into the spirit and an outward physical/flesh body one is clean and holy to God and the other is not , no flesh pleases God
what do you say about that? do you believe this is possible with God ?
thanks for sharing , rose
Well I think your right there, let God be the one who claims others Holy, and not we ourselves. I sure willnot listen to those who claim it. And I do not believe we have two bodies, but we are influenced by two powers. We only have one body, the Spirit has no body.
Peace.
[/quote] Hi Mickel ,
I am glad that we can agree on some things , I really am
the only reason I believe in two bodies is Chapter 1 Corinthians 15
the bodies Paul desribes that lets me know this is happening
and Jesus speaks of two grinding at the mill one is taken two men laying in bed in Luke 17
them scriptures that help me to see it that way , one is a spiritual body the other is an earthly body , that is just how I am seeing this though , you may not see it that way ,
thanks for your replys brother M
Peace rose
Quote from: rosered link=
/quote] Hi Mickel ,
I am glad that we can agree on some things , I really am
the only reason I believe in two bodies is Chapter 1 Corinthians 15
the bodies Paul desribes that lets me know this is happening
and Jesus speaks of two grinding at the mill one is taken two men laying in bed in Luke 17
them scriptures that help me to see it that way , one is a spiritual body the other is an earthly body , that is just how I am seeing this though , you may not see it that way ,
thanks for your replys brother M
Peace rose
Well thank you for your replys as well. I have enjoyed the conversation myself. I think you and Paul agree, I just see it differently. I think the term " Spirit Body", is contridiction. A body is something made of flesh, A Spirit means its not made of flesh, thus, in my view of things, a Spirit Body is contridiction, no such thing. You cannot combine the two. But I understand that Paul knew no other way to describe a " Spirit Being" or what the Spirit is " Contained in", so he called it a " Spirit Body." Thats like saying there is " Natural Flesh" and there is " Spiritual Flesh", and I just do not agree with that interpitation. Not that I make it a habit of disagreeing with biblical writers, I just do not agree with how Paul is interpited in this matter, or how he interpits this.
Spirite don't have bodys, because Bodys are flesh. They have some kind of form or substance, but we just don't know what it is. We know what a body is, but I just don't think we rightly know and understand what a Spirit is. I believe Spirits shape like Men, but after reading Revelations, not all Spirit being shape like men. Can we say that those who shape like lions or egales have a " Spirit Body", or is a body only accepted if it looks like ours? I do believe that we have Bodies as humans, but when we are transfigured by God we will be changed and born again into the Spirit relm. I do not agree with those who see it as we can be a Spirit being while yet in the Flesh.
But its no big deal, I could be wrong, because I am not 100% convinced either way, I just lean toward what I have explained.
Peace.
Exceeding what is written, is a strong believer who is willing to twist and stretch scripture to obtain their own spiritual selfish desires. The Kingdom within is a perfect example of this, believers literally stretching the scriptures in order to obtain their own desires to " Wrap God up into their bodies." To have and to hold Gods Kingdom, to make their bodies the temple of God. Its a " Spiritual problem." Notice Ephesians 6:12;" For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the " Spiritual Forces of Wickedness" IN the heavenly places." These forces are WITHIN the belief of believers. Its IN them, working against the truth, but masquerading as the truth.
These powers that mock and imitate God, are in heavenly places, or in the heart of believers, this is wehat that means. Because these powers are NOT in heaven with God wrecking and spoiling heaven. They are spoiling the hearts of believers, causing them to overtly covet ALL the things of God for themselves. Using the warriors own strength against them. Brilliant deception, high quality seduction.
And I want to go into that.
Peace.
Many christian believers feel they are invincible, immune to deception. And really, satan , once he gets into the belief of a stubborn believer like this, he can do a lot of damage, yet the believer never realizes it. satan is relentless and ruthless, he will throw out the baby with the bathwater, and think nothing of it. Notice Eph. 6:16;" In addition to all, taking up the shield of faith with which you will be able to extinguish all " The Flaming Missiles of the evil one."
Flaming missiles. Powerful deceptions. Spiritual deceptions. Reaped upon a group of believers who think themselves unable to be deceived.
Flaming Missiles. Deceptions so powerful, they explode within the belief of their targets. Unstable beliefs that the believer willnot give up. Because the missile has already found its target. Already deceived the believer. Already blew their mind.
Peace.
[quote author=Mickiel link
Flaming Missiles. Deceptions so powerful, they explode within the belief of their targets. Unstable beliefs that the believer willnot give up. Because the missile has already found its target. Already deceived the believer. Already blew their mind.
Peace.
[/quote]
Flaming missiles, things thrown at you that seem so spiritual, that they are irresitable. And when they hit you, they become a part of you, then explode inside of you, so as to become a part of your inner belief. Then you really become " Sharers in demons." 1Corinth.10:20;" No, but I say that the things which the gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to demons, and not to God. I do not want you to become sharers in demons." Actually in communion with demonic influence which presents itself as the truth. Thinking and believing that truth is being shared with you, but it is a decorated demon doing the communication, instilling decorated doctrines of demons.
Always looking to get you off track, keep you off track, but dedicated to making sure that you think you are swallowing the truth of God. Trying to keep you deceived, but yet keep you " Spiritual." Make you think your beliefs are spiritual, so they " Spiritualize Deceptions." Dress their influence up to appear as a spiritual thing to be desired, and from this comes their tampering of the biblical message within the mind of the believer.
Like hitting the lottery, they know the believer strongly desires the things of God now! And they use that to their advantage, magnifying the spiritual greed of the believer, showing them the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, only they bring the pot closer to their greed and say, " All these things you can have now." You don't have to get to the end, now you can be born again, now you can have the Spirit, now the Kingdom can be within.
Now! Get it now! Now is the day of getting your Spirituality, spiritualize everything now. And their eyes are changed toward Scripture, everything they read, they claim it to be now!
They then exceed what is written.
Peace.
The whole mainstream doctrine of hell exceeds what is written... :sigh: