Tentmaker Forum

What's going to happen when Jesus comes back?  Is there any kind of general consensus?

Is there a less technical view?

Any believe that Jesus is not coming back?

Christians seem to stay away from the topic.  Is it OK to be agnostic about it?

Thanks.

.

I did a study some time ago.  Paul expected the soon return of Jesus.  Can't remember but it seems that the soon return of Jesus is what is taught in the Bible.

Revelation talks of the things that were to soon come to pass.

Christians don't like this topic much.  Wonder why?

.

Quote from: ed on January 23, 2014, 05:01:50 AM
I did a study some time ago.  Paul expected the soon return of Jesus.  Can't remember but it seems that the soon return of Jesus is what is taught in the Bible.

Revelation talks of the things that were to soon come to pass.

Christians don't like this topic much.  Wonder why?

Maybe because His return was predicted every year after His crucifixion and all predictions failed so far  :laugh:

There are plenty of sites, books and articles on His return so I think many Christians aren't avoiding the topic.

2016 (2023)

Quote from: WhiteWings on January 23, 2014, 08:48:27 AM
Maybe because His return was predicted every year after His crucifixion and all predictions failed so far  :laugh:

There are plenty of sites, books and articles on His return so I think many Christians aren't avoiding the topic.

2016 (2023)

Books?  Articles?  Oh yeah, the sectarian views from the experts within the field.  What is your view.  When Jesus comes back what is going to happen?

Personally I'm not focused on the return of Christ.  The present life in Christ is where my attention is.  Wonder why I avoid the topic?  Not saying it is right.........just a fact.

.

Quote from: ed on January 23, 2014, 03:16:21 PMWhat is your view.  When Jesus comes back what is going to happen?

No sooner than September 2016.

QuoteWonder why I avoid the topic?

I wonder why someone who avoids the topic starts a thread about the topic  :Chinscratch:

What is Jesus waiting for?  Why not come back now?  :dontknow:

As believers in the glorious truth of Universal Reconciliation & Universal Salvation, I believe we have a better view on this topic than others do.  What could He be waiting for?  Could it not be that He is waiting for all people to be born that are going to be born?  I read phrases like "...we who are alive and remain..." and "...unless those days had been cut short, there would be no flesh saved," and I wonder if He is coming back just before the curtain runs down on us all... :dunno2:

If we look at His-story, we see that it looked open-ended until this present generation - generation followed generation, and no end was in sight.  Current His-story has left even The Late Great Planet Earth in the dust, given the kill-shot of Fukushima.  Do not believe the media on this - it will be the death of us all, and will still spew radiation long after.  With the prospect of the end of "be fruitful and multiply," God will step in, the trumpet of the Great Jubilee will be blown, and Jesus will gather in His sheep.

I started the topic because I am dealing with a thread that is heavy on the Book of Revelation.  I find the wordage in Revelation interesting.  The wrathful lamb......sitting on his horse killing the remnant.  Apparently when Jesus comes back as the wrathful Lamb he is going to set up His kingdom.

I found some interesting thoughts in this article.

http://www.theheraldofgodsgrace.org/Evely/PuttingItAllTogether.htm

QuoteThe Book of Revelation is an unveiling of the kingdom that will one day come upon the earth. It is the kingdom in all of its fullness that was foretold by the prophets. The Jews had been hardened for a time, until the complement of the nations enters the ecclesia (the "called-out ones" â€" generally translated "church"). But now the time has come for "all Israel to be saved" (Romans 11:26). This is the time that Peter spoke of when he encouraged the Jews to repent, "so that seasons of refreshing should be coming from the face of the Lord, and He should dispatch the One fixed upon before for you, Christ Jesus, Whom heaven must indeed receive until the times of restoration of all..." (Acts 3:19-21).

QuoteThe culmination of God's Word, then, is found in 1 Corinthians 15 when God becomes All in all. The book of Revelation does not take us quite this far.

With God all in all, all things have been reconciled to God, despite the plans of the enemy and the rebellion of the flesh which have seemed to triumph at times. Corruption is eliminated, and even our bodies are now incorruptible, not even needing the leaves from the tree of life to sustain life. The worst enemy of all, death, has been abolished.

It seems that Christians are all into the conquering lamb..............The conquering lamb is all about the Jewish nation.  The gospel that Paul taught looked past that little 1000 year period.

I tend to look past it as well.   1000 years?  The Lamb takes over?  Not really my business or concern. 

Walking with Christ in the here and now is my business.  The future will take care of itself.  Crowning the king on earth is part of a dream that the writer of Revelation declares.  It is not the end of the story.  Will I ever see such a thing?  I doubt it.

.

Quote from: ed on January 22, 2014, 08:11:12 PM
What's going to happen when Jesus comes back?  Is there any kind of general consensus?

Is there a less technical view?

Any believe that Jesus is not coming back?

Christians seem to stay away from the topic.  Is it OK to be agnostic about it?

Thanks.

.

I believe the scriptures testify that God is going to reveal himself through his Sons, his Bride, his People, and that all Creation longs for it. When he does this, some will be shut out of his presence, which I believe is Gehenna, turned over to be humbled in the fire of their own corruption until they are humbled. They will heed the words of the Spirit and the Bride, the overcomer who has kept the Lord's works unto the end and have recieved a crown. The words are "come, all ye who athirst and drink the water of life freely." Everyone who is in this spiritual LOF, unbelieving, whoremongers, murderers, those who love a lie, will see God's glory through his people and run away from their fire into the gates of the City which (according to Revelation) are open all the time, and God will be all in all.

Quote from: Seth on January 23, 2014, 06:25:02 PM

Quote from: ed on January 22, 2014, 08:11:12 PM
What's going to happen when Jesus comes back?  Is there any kind of general consensus?

Is there a less technical view?

Any believe that Jesus is not coming back?

Christians seem to stay away from the topic.  Is it OK to be agnostic about it?

Thanks.

.

I believe the scriptures testify that God is going to reveal himself through his Sons, his Bride, his People, and that all Creation longs for it. When he does this, some will be shut out of his presence, which I believe is Gehenna, turned over to be humbled in the fire of their own corruption until they are humbled. They will heed the words of the Spirit and the Bride, the overcomer who has kept the Lord's works unto the end and have recieved a crown. The words are "come, all ye who athirst and drink the water of life freely." Everyone who is in this spiritual LOF, unbelieving, whoremongers, murderers, those who love a lie, will see God's glory through his people and run away from their fire into the gates of the City which (according to Revelation) are open all the time, and God will be all in all.

  Yes!!   the Lord is faithful and never leaves us without the comforter  or leaves us as orphans !!

I know he sent  3 angels to minster to me as  going  into the dry place of no rest 

  my sister and a dear old friend and niece    just in the past 2 days !!!!  quicking the WORD within  and making alive    a spark , that the  wick of the candle    is not quenched   !!


This fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah concerning him:



Mat 12:18 "Look at my Servant, whom I have chosen.
He is my Beloved, who pleases me.
I will put my Spirit upon him,
and he will proclaim justice to the nations.



Mat 12:19 He will not fight or shout
or raise his voice in public.



Mat 12:20 He will not crush the weakest reed
or put out a flickering candle.
Finally he will cause justice to be victorious.

Mat 12:21 And his name will be the hope
of all the world." 
 

there is no name under heaven by which you must  be saved !!!   
  the VICRORY IN JESUS CHRIST   is the being made perfect and whole , complete  in HIS BODY  and His authority [ruling and reigning     now in the earth   as it is in heaven !!

Quote from: rosered on January 23, 2014, 06:35:43 PM



This fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah concerning him:



Mat 12:18 "Look at my Servant, whom I have chosen.
He is my Beloved, who pleases me.
I will put my Spirit upon him,
and he will proclaim justice to the nations.



Mat 12:19 He will not fight or shout
or raise his voice in public.



Mat 12:20 He will not crush the weakest reed
or put out a flickering candle.
Finally he will cause justice to be victorious.

Mat 12:21 And his name will be the hope
of all the world." 
 

there is no name under heaven by which you must  be saved !!!   
  the VICRORY IN JESUS CHRIST   is the being made perfect and whole , complete  in HIS BODY  and His authority [ruling and reigning     now in the earth   as it is in heaven !!

Perfect.

Thank you.

The Lord does not delay His promise, as some understand delay, but is patient with you, not wanting any to perish but all to come to repentance.

Quote from: ed on January 22, 2014, 08:11:12 PM
What's going to happen when Jesus comes back?  Is there any kind of general consensus?

Is there a less technical view?

Any believe that Jesus is not coming back?

Christians seem to stay away from the topic.  Is it OK to be agnostic about it?

Thanks.

.

Who says He hasn't?

Love Julie  :HeartThrob:

Quote from: Lazarus Short on January 23, 2014, 05:15:46 PM
What is Jesus waiting for?  Why not come back now?  :dontknow:

As believers in the glorious truth of Universal Reconciliation & Universal Salvation, I believe we have a better view on this topic than others do.  What could He be waiting for?  Could it not be that He is waiting for all people to be born that are going to be born?  I read phrases like "...we who are alive and remain..." and "...unless those days had been cut short, there would be no flesh saved," and I wonder if He is coming back just before the curtain runs down on us all... :dunno2:

If we look at His-story, we see that it looked open-ended until this present generation - generation followed generation, and no end was in sight.  Current His-story has left even The Late Great Planet Earth in the dust, given the kill-shot of Fukushima.  Do not believe the media on this - it will be the death of us all, and will still spew radiation long after.  With the prospect of the end of "be fruitful and multiply," God will step in, the trumpet of the Great Jubilee will be blown, and Jesus will gather in His sheep.

Fukushima has been a serious interest of mine. Since about two months after the disaster there has been a information black out. What news that has come out periodically has been void of substantive data. The campaign of lies that was begun against the Japanese people and the world at large is one of the most egregious evidences that the news media is completely controlled by the one world government and its many headed corporate serpent. Like a small cancer can grow to kill an entire body, this wound in the earth will have much greater repercussions than most people can currently imagine .

 :thumbsup:

Quote from: eaglesway on January 24, 2014, 03:29:34 AM



Fukushima has been a serious interest of mine. Since about two months after the disaster there has been a information black out.

Eaglesway, you must fall back on alternative sources for information.  The best source, AFAIK, is the Jeff Rense Program, and the real situation is far worse than most folks know.  The Pacific Ocean, and the creatures in it, is dying.  While the Russians fiddled around for only hours/days, and then took decisive action at Chernobyl, the Japanese (read:  Tepco) have dithered for years, seemingly more concerned with losing face.  Now, they may lose everything.  If there are any Tentmaker members living on or near any coast of the Pacific Ocean, the time has come to move away from that coast, and if you haven't, your dithering time is over.

I say this, having watched events, and now exercising my responsibility as a Watcher on the Wall.

Even so, do not despair, for God has allowed events to this impasse, so that mankind will be left with no other thing to look to, except Him.  God will not fail us, or abandon us to our fate.   

BTW, we're moving east:  Kansas City, not Alabama as I announced a while ago.

1Jn 4:1  Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
1Jn 4:2  Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
1Jn 4:3  And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

Stop looking for a future event.

He is here now. If you fail to understand THIS then you will miss out on what he is wanting to do in your life now.

:punish: :punish: :punish: :banana:

I'm looking forward to the last enemy to be destroyed which is death. There is nothing wrong with looking forward to good things.   

:banana:

Quote from: watchman1706 on January 24, 2014, 07:36:42 AM
1Jn 4:1  Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
1Jn 4:2  Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
1Jn 4:3  And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

Stop looking for a future event.

He is here now. If you fail to understand THIS then you will miss out on what he is wanting to do in your life now.

:punish: :punish: :punish: :banana:

:iagree:

Quote from: Seth on January 24, 2014, 07:39:21 AM
I'm looking forward to the last enemy to be destroyed which is death. There is nothing wrong with looking forward to good things.   

:banana:

I know what you mean Seth  in that literal sense !!! :thumbsup:

  but blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on ,  for this has freed them   from the power and fear of the last enemy [death]

Jhn 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that hears my word, and believes on him that sent me, has everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.      

   there are some , I am certain whom  death holds no hurt or power/harm  over them anylonger  :thumbsup:

Those who truly await the blessed hope of His appearing, are also seeking His face now. These are one and the same, or at least, intricately related.

"For we know that when He appears we will be like Him, for we will see Him as He is.....and everyone who has this hope in Himself purifies Himself, even as He is pure."

"And we all, with unveiled face, beholding, as in a mirror, the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image, from glory to glory, by the Spirit who is the Lord."

I have seen that time is a tool through which God wears down the flesh(veil). As time goes by and we draw nearer than we were because the veil is growing thin and our illusions about ourselves are dissolving in the living water of His love......humilty begins to arise from the depths, setting us free like "light shining out of darkness" and the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ tears back the veil in the heavens and the kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of our God and His Christ."

We know whole creation eagerly awaits the manifestation of the sons of God,...... and we know the whole creation travails together...... and not only them, but we ourselves also groan within ourselves, awaiting our adoption as sons, even the redemption of our bodies.


Those who behold Him now will behold Him then, and the groaning grows more and more as we see Him more clearly and the world around us and this flesh become more and more obviously futile in the light of His divine nature, and our longing to me filled with His character, partakers of the divine nature.

This very longing opens the heart and the soul for the filling with grace and mercy that allows us to become conformed to His image in the spirit, NOW.  :o)

Quote from: eaglesway on January 24, 2014, 09:09:17 PM
Those who truly await the blessed hope of His appearing, are also seeking His face now. These are one and the same, or at least, intricately related.

"For we know that when He appears we will be like Him, for we will see Him as He is.....and everyone who has this hope in Himself purifies Himself, even as He is pure."

"And we all, with unveiled face, beholding, as in a mirror, the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image, from glory to glory, by the Spirit who is the Lord."

I have seen that time is a tool through which God wears down the flesh(veil). As time goes by and we draw nearer than we were because the veil is growing thin and our illusions about ourselves are dissolving in the living water of His love......humilty begins to arise from the depths, setting us free like "light shining out of darkness" and the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ tears back the veil in the heavens and the kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of our God and His Christ."

We know whole creation eagerly awaits the manifestation of the sons of God,...... and we know the whole creation travails together...... and not only them, but we ourselves also groan within ourselves, awaiting our adoption as sons, even the redemption of our bodies.


Those who behold Him now will behold Him then, and the groaning grows more and more as we see Him more clearly and the world around us and this flesh become more and more obviously futile in the light of His divine nature, and our longing to me filled with His character, partakers of the divine nature.

This very longing opens the heart and the soul for the filling with grace and mercy that allows us to become conformed to His image in the spirit, NOW.  :o)

:thumbsup:   Well said   Bro John !!   

Yes, amen!

 :trampoline: Ain't it wonderful!  Rejoice! Rejoice!

Eaglesway, I enjoy your thoughts. I have also been watching Fukushima and the scenario as it reaches the West coast of Canada, and the US, on down through Washington state, Oregon, California and Baja in Mexico.

I bought a Geiger counter to check the levels here in Scotland, so far so good. My wife thinks I have lost my mind! Canadians in BC are rushing out to buy loads of Iodine tabs and the government health agency put a stop to it, cuz it could cause a serious problem. The main stream media aren't touching it, everything I find is on alternate media.

Well, I'll stop rambling on here, blessings to all.

Jock :Peace2:

Thanks Jock. Yea, it is a slowly creeping evil, born out of the arrogance of man and multiplied by the ignorance and indolence of people who ought to be raising a cry. The blackout, in my opinion, is because the 100 or so people at the top of the Babylonian idol- that head of gold so to speak, do not want to face the hue and cry against nuclear energy that will arise when the truth gets out(my opinion).

Eaglesway, here is a link to a debate about nuclear power and a guy who is a UN puppet. Helen Caldicot is well up on who is who. The UN is such a corrupt and dangerous outfit ( It's a corporation). People should know more about these things. Like the Federal Reserve, Bank of England, etc.

Spiritual wickedness in high places!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pb5HItRpDY8

Jock

absolutely true.

I know some folks disagree with me on this, but the function of the prophets in Israel was to expose wickedness in high places, corruption, inequity, injustice. To cry out for the plight of the poor and to shout from the houssetops corrupt things practised in secret. I believe one of the reasons Christianity in America and the West is so disrespected is because they turn a blind eye to the corruption of anyone who plays to their hot-button items like abortion, gay marriage, Israel, etc.- leaving the corrupt to further corrupt and thieves to steal more and more.

I believe that function of the prophets is still our function today.

Canadians in BC are rushing out to buy loads of Iodine tabs and the government health agency put a stop to it, cuz it could cause a serious problem.

Not true.

Hi Dajomaco

Wikipedia: see what you think?   Due to a run on potassium iodide tablets in pharmacies in Western Canada, Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper, issued statements on 15 March of reassurance that Canada was not at risk from the fallout, and that taking the iodine tablets was unnecessary. British Columbia's health officer Dr. Perry Kendall, urged residents not to stockpile the tablets.[53][54]

Eaglesway,

again, I agree.

"I believe that function of the prophets is still our function today" I know that the prophets spoke to Israel of her sin and they also spoke concerning things to come, which is all a consequence of sin.

Jock

The actual fukushima nuclear plant disaster has not stopped happening yet. There are new leaks, worse than the old leaks, with potentially more disastrous effects that the original meltdown itself. This is an epochal event of biblical and apocalyptic dimensions- the public just doesnt know it yet. Worst case estimates are that parts of the aleutian islands, hawaii and pockets in the west coast of canada and the U.S could become inhabitable over the next decade. There is disagreement over the final radioactive count that will accumulate, because they have not stopped the contaminated water from pouring into the Pacific, so all the data is not in- but anyone who wants to know can research alternative news reports on the internet and find out that it is WAY worse than our government or the mass media will tell us. The linked article is no small time glory seeking radical report, it is National Geographic magazine, and its just a blurb. The radioactivity at Fukushima IS STILL GOING UP. Tepco does not have the situation under control and nothing short of an international intervention can stop what has become an open ended boondoggle of massive proportions by this prideful and deceitful company and government in Japan.

news.nationalgeographic.com/energy/2013/08/130821-fukushima-latest-leak-how-is-it-different/ (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/energy/2013/08/130821-fukushima-latest-leak-how-is-it-different/)

Yes, Fukushima is an apocalypse. These governments, the Japanese and US are playing this down so that they can continue receiving mega bucks from the NRC. They have declared a 12 mile exclusion zone (only 12 miles) for Fukushima residents whose children are already presenting with lumps in their thyroid glands.. Stephen Harper saying that Canada will not experience any fallout "LIAR"!!

If reactor no 4 melts down, they are talking about evacuating Tokyo! We'll see what takes place?

I'll read the link you sent, here's another happy little story for you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_Cz39TUTQs

Jock.

Quote from: ed on January 23, 2014, 05:01:50 AM
I did a study some time ago.  Paul expected the soon return of Jesus.  Can't remember but it seems that the soon return of Jesus is what is taught in the Bible.

Revelation talks of the things that were to soon come to pass.

Christians don't like this topic much.  Wonder why?

.

Because they don't understand it?

Quote from: ed on January 23, 2014, 03:16:21 PM

When Jesus comes back what is going to happen?

Personally I'm not focused on the return of Christ.  The present life in Christ is where my attention is.  Wonder why I avoid the topic?  Not saying it is right.........just a fact.

I doubt if anyone has brought this up, but it seems to me, if Jesus' 1st advent fulfilled Israel's ancient Spring Holy Days -

was the [ 1 ] "Passover Lamb" -

was the [ 2 ] "Unleavened Bread" sinless in the oven/the grave for 3 nights and days -

and was the [ 3 ] "Firstfruit" lone sheaf of wheat waved in the air /  rose & ascended

Then it seems logic to me, that His long 2nd advent of 3 main peaks -

[peak - 1] = Return with fire and angels -

[peak - 2] = Day Of Judgment (DOJ) -

and "Tabernacles" - [peak - 3] = God will now "tabernacle" with man - Rev 21:3 (upon earth made new)

  --- would be represented by the Fall Feasts oF -

[ 1 ] Trumpets - (ten days until number 2)

[ 2 ] DOA (day of atonement) - (five days until number 3)

and - [ 3 ]  Tabernacles

..........................................surely? :smile:    (ten days separating fall holy days 1 and 2
                                                                    (five days separating fall holy days 2 and 3)

iF 1000 yrs separate peak 1 of the second advent from peak 2 - how many years separate peak 2 (DOJ) from peak 3 (God will Tabernacle w/ man)? iF the Fall Holy Days prophesy the 2nd advent?

oR iF the millenium lasts 1000yrs... how long will DOJ/DOA last?

but i don't think any will see it until some authority writes it in a book.. same old..

pestilence including chemical.. the fourth horse and rider, 'hell' the grave follows after him, including the mass grave follows after him.. kills 1/4..

from rev chapter 6 of course, where the seals are described as a blend of what they are when 1st start their ride/progression/gallop and what they are at the 'end'. This "seals" (pun intended) the vision, one of at least two locks. (By describing so very early in the narrative, things which occur very late on planet Earth.)

Quote from: Jock on January 30, 2014, 10:40:46 AM
Eaglesway,

again, I agree.

"I believe that function of the prophets is still our function today" I know that the prophets spoke to Israel of her sin and they also spoke concerning things to come, which is all a consequence of sin.

Jock

  I agree too in the sense of    the testimony of Jesus is the Spirit of Prophecy / revealing Truth     and anyone   who is hid in Christ  IS   declaring this truth   
  many gifts same Spirit   1COR 12

You're right, Rose.

A believer must look at those things (Fukushima) in the Spirit, all the while desiring Christ's view of them.

Cheers


Jock.   :2c:

Quote from: Jock on January 31, 2014, 09:50:43 PM
You're right, Rose.

A believer must look at those things (Fukushima) in the Spirit, all the while desiring Christ's view of them.

Cheers


Jock.   :2c:

:friendstu:   

   NLT 2Cr 13:3 I will give you all the proof you want that Christ speaks through me. Christ is not weak when he deals with you; he is powerful among you. 


2Cr 13:4 Although he was crucified in weakness, he now lives by the power of God. We, too, are weak, just as Christ was, but when we deal with you we will be alive with him and will have God's power. 
2Cr 13:5 Examine yourselves to see if your faith is genuine. Test yourselves. Surely you know that Jesus Christ is among you ; if not, you have failed the test of genuine faith. 


2Cr 13:6 As you test yourselves, I hope you will recognize that we have not failed the test of apostolic authority. 


2Cr 13:7 We pray to God that you will not do what is wrong by refusing our correction. I hope we won't need to demonstrate our authority when we arrive. Do the right thing before we come—even if that makes it look like we have failed to demonstrate our authority. 


2Cr 13:8 For we cannot oppose the truth, but must always stand for the truth.    :thumbsup:

Add to the confusion.

http://www.ra-el.org/
http://www.ra-el.org/faq.html
http://www.ra-el.org/evidence.html

.

Quote from: marie glen on January 31, 2014, 06:10:07 PM
pestilence including chemical.. the fourth horse and rider, 'hell' the grave follows after him, including the mass grave follows after him.. kills 1/4..

from rev chapter 6 of course, where the seals are described as a blend of what they are when 1st start their ride/progression/gallop and what they are at the 'end'. This "seals" (pun intended) the vision, one of at least two locks. (By describing so very early in the narrative, things which occur very late on planet Earth.)

and yet John is instructed, do not seal the scroll for the time is at hand............it was unsealed somewhere between 60-90 AD, it has been open ever since :o)

  Amen Bro John !!    Lamb  of God    loosing the seals    :angel5:

QuoteI doubt if anyone has brought this up, but it seems to me, if Jesus' 1st advent fulfilled Israel's ancient Spring Holy Days -

was the [ 1 ] "Passover Lamb" -

was the [ 2 ] "Unleavened Bread" sinless in the oven/the grave for 3 nights and days -

and was the [ 3 ] "Firstfruit" lone sheaf of wheat waved in the air /  rose & ascended

Then it seems logic to me, that His long 2nd advent of 3 main peaks -

[peak - 1] = Return with fire and angels -

[peak - 2] = Day Of Judgment (DOJ) -

and "Tabernacles" - [peak - 3] = God will now "tabernacle" with man - Rev 21:3 (upon earth made new)

  --- would be represented by the Fall Feasts oF -

[ 1 ] Trumpets - (ten days until number 2)

[ 2 ] DOA (day of atonement) - (five days until number 3)

and - [ 3 ]  Tabernacles

  I have been studying  on those 3  Feast days     Passover ,  Trumpets and  Tabernacles  and   do see Jesus Christ fulfilling them      Marie !!

Quote from: ed on February 24, 2014, 07:44:55 AM
Add to the confusion.

http://www.ra-el.org/
http://www.ra-el.org/faq.html
http://www.ra-el.org/evidence.html

.

So funny.

Quote from: eaglesway on March 02, 2014, 09:00:18 PM
and yet John is instructed, do not seal the scroll for the time is at hand............it was unsealed somewhere between 60-90 AD, it has been open ever since :o)

To seal means to conclude a writing. Leaving a book unsealed means isn't done yet.
And that fits quite nicely with history like 5 kings have come and stuff like Christians wanting to be Jews etc.
The bulk of Revelation was written in the 60's. But the book wasn't sealed/completed then. Nothing happened for 30 years. Then then in the late 90's he received the last information. Finished/sealed the book. Not long after  that he was executed for his faith.

I think that is incorrect.

IMO to seal means to bind the revelation for a future time, like the words Paul heard in the 3rd heaven that he was not allowed to utter, or like the 7 thunders.

To veil it, in other words.

"Go your way Daniel for these words are sealed and concealed until the end time." (Dan 12:4)

It was sealed because it wasnt "open to public knowledge"-yet. 

It was unsealed because it was time to be published to those "who have ears to hear what the Spirit is saying to the ecclessia.".

Then, to John......"Do not seal up the scroll for the time is at hand".... as in "Repent for the kingdom of heaven is at hand". Here. Now. Open. Available.

Daniles book was sealed until the end times. The Lamb opened it for John, in the end times. John recorded it for us-  It is open, if we can hear,

Quote from: eaglesway on March 13, 2014, 04:12:01 AM
I think that is incorrect.

IMO to seal means to bind

Seal and bind have different meanings in Hebrew. The difference isn't huge, but still there is a difference.

http://tentmaker.org/forum/christian-life/the-new-testament-was-written-in-hebrew-(not-greek)/msg136783/#msg136783

See it like this:
A government is planning to write 200 laws. Every law written binds the citizens a little more. When law #200 is bound the book is finished/sealed.


A Ketubah/wedding contract is a good example of seals. Seals are a wrong translation because it's where signatures. But that isn't of much importance now.
The Ketubah contained several sections. Family trees, anecdotes, legal stuff like dowry, etc.
Each section ended with a seal/signature.

Yeah, the Revelation is for a future time (or not depending on certain views).

QuoteIt was sealed because it wasnt "open to public knowledge"-yet.

But not understanding something or writing about future events isn't sealing. When I was born, I couldn't read. Did that mean all book in the library are sealed in the way you understand it? Nope. The library still contains many books I don't understand because my education doesn't span 500 professions. Are those books sealed the way you understand it? No, it's just me not understanding them.

QuoteThen, to John......"Do not seal up the scroll for the time is at hand"

QuoteThe Lamb opened it for John, in the end times. John recorded it for us-  It is open, if we can hear,

How can Jesus open/unseal a book that's already open/unsealed?

So when John was told not to seal it, he understood it as "more will come"

If you would have used "veiled" instead of "sealed" I would have agreed much more. But not as in purposely blinded. Jesus came to fulfill (http://tentmaker.org/forum/christian-life/the-new-testament-was-written-in-hebrew-(not-greek)/msg136779/#msg136779) the law. Meaning He came to lift the veil. But that doesn't mean God always intended His Law was never understood until Jesus arrived.

John was also sealing the Bible as a whole.

hi!  :hiya:  this is how I think of it,

Revelation 20:6 - Young's Literal Translation (YLT) "Happy and holy [is] he who is having part in the first rising.." "This is the First Resurrection."

Revelation 20:5-15 - New American Standard Bible (NASB) "The rest of the dead did" (do) "not come to life until the thousand years were" (are) "completed.."

John 8:20-21,24 - (YLT) - "Jesus spake in the treasury" (to the Pharisees) "teaching in the temple, and no one seized him, because his hour had not yet come; therefore said Jesus again to them, `I go away, and ye will seek me, and in your sin ye shall die; whither I go, ye are not able to come.. ...I said, therefore, to you, that ye shall die in your sins, for if ye may not believe that I am [he], ye shall die in your sins.'

Matthew 8:11-12 - (NASB) "I say to you that many will come from east and west, and recline at the table with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven; but the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

Revelation 22:10-16 - (YLT) - "And he saith to me, `Thou mayest not seal the words of the prophecy of this scroll, because the time is nigh;" (always nigh! whether the 'end' collectively as prophesied, or the 'end' personally at death) "he who is unrighteous -- let him be unrighteous still, and he who is filthy -- let him be filthy still, and he who is righteous -- let him be declared righteous still, and he who is sanctified -- let him be sanctified still: And lo, I come quickly, and my reward [is] with me, to render to each as his work shall be; I am the Alpha and the Omega -- the Beginning and End -- the First and the Last. `Happy are those doing His commands that the authority shall be theirs unto the tree of the life, and by the gates they may enter into the city; and without [are] the dogs, and the sorcerers, and the whoremongers, and the murderers, and the idolaters, and every one who is loving and is doing a lie. `I, Jesus did send my messenger to testify to you these things concerning the assemblies; I am the root and the offspring of David, the bright and morning star!"

Revelation 2:7 - (NKJV) - "He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes I will give to eat from the tree of life, which is in the midst of the Paradise of God."

Revelation 13:9 - (YLT) "if any one hath an ear -- let him hear."

20:7-15 - (YLT) "And when the thousand years be finished, the Adversary shall be loosed out of his prison, and he shall go forth to lead the nations astray, that are in the four corners of the earth -- Gog and Magog -- to gather them together to war, of whom the number [is] as the sand of the sea; and they did go up over the breadth of the land, and did surround the camp of the saints, and the beloved city, and there came down fire from God out of the heaven, and devoured them; and the Devil, who is leading them astray, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where [are] the beast and the false prophet" (not men! but two institutions of men) "and they shall be tormented day and night -- to the ages of the ages" ("for aion and aion" in the original Greek). "And I saw a great white throne, and Him who is sitting upon it, from whose face the earth and the heaven did flee away, and place was not found for them; and I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and scrolls were opened, and another scroll was opened, which is that of the life, and the dead were judged out of the things written in the scrolls -- according to their works; and the sea did give up those dead in it, and the death and the hades did give up the dead in them, and they were judged, each one according to their works; and the death and the hades were cast to the lake of the fire -- this [is] the second death; and if any one was not found" (by then!?) "written in the scroll of the life, he was cast to the lake of the fire."

:2c: :Peace2:

Paul spke of his hope to attain to the first resurrection...somehow......it is interesting to note that the secound resurrection

  is the resurrection of the righteous and wicked[good/evil mix] which is death..or lacking the fullness of the sanctification

   and [ w]holiness] of the first...[the prince of this world comes and he has nothing in me[wickedness]

   indeed the Lord will come and seperate the people[righteous from the wicked] and will appear a secound time apart/seperate

  from sin.

    seeing in part=partial sanctification............face to face..and being just like Him= mature total sanctification...........


     I have many things yet to declare to you..but at present ye can not bear them.........

   the mind of Christ  is the fullness [w]holeness..that the sons and daughters have to grow into.

    with the law..it is..or it isn't ...as defined by the law[is man wicked or righteous?] with grace there is change and growth=

  sown a natural body,raised a spiritual..the body that is sown is not the same body that is raised up[changed]....I think it

is for this reason..more then anything else...... satan seeks t kill the 'manchild' in it's infancy..before it is raised up in power.

          we see Paul's lament..the good that I wish to do..I do not do..the evil I desire not to do,I do[righteous/wicked mix]

   who shall deliver me from this body undergoing this death.


     Job 1;6  One day the sons of God[angels] come to present themselves before the Lord,and satan/sin appeared with them.

     [the children of the resurrection are like the angels]....[satn as prosecutor/accusor]


   now..one day the sons of God will  come to present themselves before the Lord[all men]..and Christ will appear with them

...and He will seperate what is no part of him..from His people..  He is our advocte/our saviour/our defender...He will rebuke

  Satan[the Lord rebuke thee satan] is this not a branch plucked from the fire? He will order...remove from off him his filthy

garments[vile] put a clean turban[mind] on his head and clean garments[this is what happens to those at the wedding feast

that are thrown oout for not having a wedding garment]   Don't you know Him yet? 

Quote from: WhiteWings on March 13, 2014, 09:36:47 AM

Quote from: eaglesway on March 13, 2014, 04:12:01 AM
I think that is incorrect.

IMO to seal means to bind

Seal and bind have different meanings in Hebrew. The difference isn't huge, but still there is a difference.

http://tentmaker.org/forum/christian-life/the-new-testament-was-written-in-hebrew-(not-greek)/msg136783/#msg136783

See it like this:
A government is planning to write 200 laws. Every law written binds the citizens a little more. When law #200 is bound the book is finished/sealed.


A Ketubah/wedding contract is a good example of seals. Seals are a wrong translation because it's where signatures. But that isn't of much importance now.
The Ketubah contained several sections. Family trees, anecdotes, legal stuff like dowry, etc.
Each section ended with a seal/signature.

Yeah, the Revelation is for a future time (or not depending on certain views).

QuoteIt was sealed because it wasnt "open to public knowledge"-yet.

But not understanding something or writing about future events isn't sealing. When I was born, I couldn't read. Did that mean all book in the library are sealed in the way you understand it? Nope. The library still contains many books I don't understand because my education doesn't span 500 professions. Are those books sealed the way you understand it? No, it's just me not understanding them.

QuoteThen, to John......"Do not seal up the scroll for the time is at hand"

QuoteThe Lamb opened it for John, in the end times. John recorded it for us-  It is open, if we can hear,

How can Jesus open/unseal a book that's already open/unsealed?

So when John was told not to seal it, he understood it as "more will come"

If you would have used "veiled" instead of "sealed" I would have agreed much more. But not as in purposely blinded. Jesus came to fulfill (http://tentmaker.org/forum/christian-life/the-new-testament-was-written-in-hebrew-(not-greek)/msg136779/#msg136779) the law. Meaning He came to lift the veil. But that doesn't mean God always intended His Law was never understood until Jesus arrived.

John was also sealing the Bible as a whole.

These are just discussions, but it does appear to me that you are using reasonings based on contemporary language to supercede what the scriptures plainly say.

Daniel was told to seal the scroll because it was not yet time.

John was told not to seal it because the time was "at hand".

I think this is about receiving the revelation given, not appealing to revelation yet to come- not to say that the word isnt ever new in each generation- there is, nevertheless, a complete revelation for the ecclessia who have ears to hear in the apocalypse of John. Jesus says over and over again in it- it is to the ecclessia of God. It opens with Him walking among the Lampstands- this is the theme of the introduction which opens up into seven letters to the seven gatherings. What follows in the openng of the seals is full of revelation contemporary in every generation since then, pictures of heavenly realities- for all who have ears to hear, and eyes opened to see, it has been unsealed.

As long as the scroll is sealed, it is unable to be opened. To me this is a bound scroll but there is no need to belabor such a fine point.


Jesus opened the seals. It is right there in Revelation chapter 5. John took dictation, so to speak. Revelation is largely, the contents of the sealed scroll

The language is also clear.


It doesnt say, "Seal not the scroll because there is more to come"

It says  "Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book (scroll)because the time is at hand"

It is a stretch, imo, to take the words- "Do not seal up the words of this scroll" and make them mean "Seal up all the writings with this scroll".

I read all the time in different places of religious speak[and have for years and found myself awaiting] that of Jesus coming back and His second coming. I was reading years ago the writings of J. Preston Eby, who I have found very important in my walk. Well, Bro. Eby established for me a very outstanding point which I have been given to hold and have found a "rock" in my foundation.
Joh_14:16  and I will ask the Father, and another Comforter He will give to you, that he may remain with you--to the age;
Joh_14:26  and the Comforter, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things, and remind you of all things that I said to you.
Joh_15:26  `And when the Comforter may come, whom I will send to you from the Father--the Spirit of truth, who from the Father doth come forth, he will testify of me;
Joh_16:7  `But I tell you the truth; it is better for you that I go away, for if I may not go away, the Comforter will not come unto you, and if I go on, I will send Him unto you;

And thus informing me as well as telling me that Jesus Christ came again(a second time) and as Revelation confirms Rev 1:8  `I am the Alpha and the Omega, beginning and end, saith the Lord, who is, and who was, and who is coming--the Almighty.'
I, await Jesus Christ, I do not await His "second" coming.  Jesus Christ is always COMING...ALWAYS. Yet religion, theology,denominations all proclaim a "second" coming. I know I must stand alone with my faith...but happy at His many comings. :dsunny:

Quote from: eaglesway on March 14, 2014, 12:48:01 AM

These are just discussions, but it does appear to me that you are using reasonings based on contemporary language to supercede what the scriptures plainly say.

Scripture says is based on language.
Reading things any other way is inserting doctrine. It doesn't contradict Scripture. But it can mean Scripture says something else than what commonly is assumed.

QuoteWhat follows in the openng of the seals is full of revelation contemporary in every generation since then, pictures of heavenly realities- for all who have ears to hear, and eyes opened to see, it has been unsealed.

So you think the 5 books written by Moses are (were?) sealed in such a way nobody is supposed to understand those books?

Moses books were never sealed.

The way I see it, Revelations is largely the contents of the unsealed scroll, which may hav been Daniels sealed scroll- 7 seals, seven sections, or portions of revelation. If you think about it, the much of the  revelation of John is about scrolls being unsealed. 7 letters to 7 churches, the seven seals of the sealed scroll opened by the Lion of the tribe of Judah(Jesus the Lamb), the little book in the giant messengers hand(rev 10 i think).

Also to clarify, I am not saying there is no revelation that has yet to be fulfilled in terms of historic prophesy- I am just saying that the primary function of the messages and metaphors and word pictures of John's apocalypse have been to give understanding to the ecclesia concerning their function and purpose and nature- in each generation in which they have lived.

I tend to agree with ew.

It is amazing how doctrine taints the whole message of Christ.

I'm guessing pre-trib, post-trib all comes from the book of Revelation.  Correct me if I am wrong.

I was reading an article on free will from another site and and noticed the flavor the Christ's return for a millennium reign was stated as fact.

After reading this thread and studying for years I still have not come to a solid conclusion on the return of Christ.

I am quite happy with a simple he has already come and is alive and well in us.

In other words I'm not expecting an apocalyptic return.

I think that maybe Paul expected one.  I disagree with Paul.  Lord have mercy!

.

Quote from: micah7:9 on March 14, 2014, 01:52:24 AM
I read all the time in different places of religious speak[and have for years and found myself awaiting] that of Jesus coming back and His second coming. I was reading years ago the writings of J. Preston Eby, who I have found very important in my walk. Well, Bro. Eby established for me a very outstanding point which I have been given to hold and have found a "rock" in my foundation.
Joh_14:16  and I will ask the Father, and another Comforter He will give to you, that he may remain with you--to the age;
Joh_14:26  and the Comforter, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things, and remind you of all things that I said to you.
Joh_15:26  `And when the Comforter may come, whom I will send to you from the Father--the Spirit of truth, who from the Father doth come forth, he will testify of me;
Joh_16:7  `But I tell you the truth; it is better for you that I go away, for if I may not go away, the Comforter will not come unto you, and if I go on, I will send Him unto you;

And thus informing me as well as telling me that Jesus Christ came again(a second time) and as Revelation confirms Rev 1:8  `I am the Alpha and the Omega, beginning and end, saith the Lord, who is, and who was, and who is coming--the Almighty.'
I, await Jesus Christ, I do not await His "second" coming.  Jesus Christ is always COMING...ALWAYS. Yet religion, theology,denominations all proclaim a "second" coming. I know I must stand alone with my faith...but happy at His many comings. :dsunny:

I'm about the same, including the writings of JP Eby.

I don't discount an end this world.  I just don't think that it will be anything like Christian theology has propounded.  We are confused.  "nobodies right if everybodies wrong".  At times it is laughable at times and at other times makes me want to cry.

It is ripe for heretic snatchings.   It is also ripe for a great awakening.  Who will be able to tell the difference?  His sheep continue to hear His voice.

.

He came, He is coming[all the time], and He will come. It just seems  strange to me how believers desire His appearance.
Theology and all its religious denominations and sects have their platform that intrigues the congregations that gather on a particular day, what they[in charge of the oracle] offer what keeps their gatherings imagination and attention sharp.
Should the masses who profess Jesus Christ, I venture to say, who do not open their personal Bible unless instructed to a certain verse of scripture actually search that Bible for study, the leader of that group would be whelmed with biblical questions. 
Should a reverend, pastor, priest, preacher, etc. say thus, well like...something outside of the sunday pamphlets, the person would be brought up on charges.
Just who is The Comforter? Should the Comforter not be Jesus.....tell me? He is here now, today in those who believe, He is working in those who believe and that working is not a working teaching a second coming. HE IS HERE NOW just like HE IS RISEN.

Quote from: eaglesway on March 15, 2014, 11:42:58 PMMoses books were never sealed.

They are the wedding contract with the 7 seals.

Quote from: WhiteWings on March 16, 2014, 02:10:48 PM

Quote from: eaglesway on March 15, 2014, 11:42:58 PMMoses books were never sealed.

They are the wedding contract with the 7 seals.

My opinion is that your opinion is incorrect :o)

Quote from: micah7:9 on March 16, 2014, 05:32:51 AM
He came, He is coming[all the time], and He will come. It just seems  strange to me how believers desire His appearance.
Theology and all its religious denominations and sects have their platform that intrigues the congregations that gather on a particular day, what they[in charge of the oracle] offer what keeps their gatherings imagination and attention sharp.
Should the masses who profess Jesus Christ, I venture to say, who do not open their personal Bible unless instructed to a certain verse of scripture actually search that Bible for study, the leader of that group would be whelmed with biblical questions. 
Should a reverend, pastor, priest, preacher, etc. say thus, well like...something outside of the sunday pamphlets, the person would be brought up on charges.
Just who is The Comforter? Should the Comforter not be Jesus.....tell me? He is here now, today in those who believe, He is working in those who believe and that working is not a working teaching a second coming. HE IS HERE NOW just like HE IS RISEN.

Here  Now Today  :iagree:

Quote from: micah7:9 on March 16, 2014, 05:32:51 AM
He came, He is coming[all the time], and He will come. It just seems  strange to me how believers desire His appearance.
Theology and all its religious denominations and sects have their platform that intrigues the congregations that gather on a particular day, what they[in charge of the oracle] offer what keeps their gatherings imagination and attention sharp.
Should the masses who profess Jesus Christ, I venture to say, who do not open their personal Bible unless instructed to a certain verse of scripture actually search that Bible for study, the leader of that group would be whelmed with biblical questions. 
Should a reverend, pastor, priest, preacher, etc. say thus, well like...something outside of the sunday pamphlets, the person would be brought up on charges.
Just who is The Comforter? Should the Comforter not be Jesus.....tell me? He is here now, today in those who believe, He is working in those who believe and that working is not a working teaching a second coming. HE IS HERE NOW just like HE IS RISEN.

I agree. It seems to me that many in the Orthodox world, including me at a past time focused so much on calling Christ down to them through worship, but he is already down here, in his temple: for ye are the temple of the living God.

However, there is something that Paul looked forward to:

Romans 8
22 For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now. 23 And not only this, but also we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body. 24 For in hope we have been saved, but hope that is seen is not hope; for who hopes for what he already sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, with perseverance we wait eagerly for it.

This reminds me of the Hebrews 2 scripture: "Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him."

That is what we are waiting for, the hope. Though we do not see all things under him, we know it is true, so we wait "eagerly for our adoption as sons" something we do not see yet.

1 Thess 4:13-18
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Why "comfort eachother with these words?" I think it's because they were in such sorrow and suffering concerning the persecution of the church. They were dying off, enduring unimaginable hardship (Lord bless their hearts). It certainly was not a world that looked as if all things were already in subjugation under Christ. But we are assured that we will see that someday.

Paul was strengthening them with words that were very strong "shall descend from heaven with a shout" Strong wording, to help them have courage that the Lord has strength, and he will be manifested in a way that the world has not seen yet.

That is what I think people mean when they talk about a second coming. It's not to say he is not already here with us, but it's to say that he will come by way of a manifestation of his power that the world has not yet seen.

The world has really only seen him once, 2000 years ago. Not even the saints have seen him as he will be when he comes again, or at least when he manifests again unto the world who crucified him.

 :dsunny:

Job 19:25 For I know that my Redeemer lives,
and at the last he will stand upon the earth.

26 And after my skin has been thus destroyed,
yet in my flesh I shall see God,
:dsunny:

Quote from: ed on March 16, 2014, 01:15:25 AM

Quote from: micah7:9 on March 14, 2014, 01:52:24 AM
I read all the time in different places of religious speak[and have for years and found myself awaiting] that of Jesus coming back and His second coming. I was reading years ago the writings of J. Preston Eby, who I have found very important in my walk. Well, Bro. Eby established for me a very outstanding point which I have been given to hold and have found a "rock" in my foundation.
Joh_14:16  and I will ask the Father, and another Comforter He will give to you, that he may remain with you--to the age;
Joh_14:26  and the Comforter, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things, and remind you of all things that I said to you.
Joh_15:26  `And when the Comforter may come, whom I will send to you from the Father--the Spirit of truth, who from the Father doth come forth, he will testify of me;
Joh_16:7  `But I tell you the truth; it is better for you that I go away, for if I may not go away, the Comforter will not come unto you, and if I go on, I will send Him unto you;

And thus informing me as well as telling me that Jesus Christ came again(a second time) and as Revelation confirms Rev 1:8  `I am the Alpha and the Omega, beginning and end, saith the Lord, who is, and who was, and who is coming--the Almighty.'
I, await Jesus Christ, I do not await His "second" coming.  Jesus Christ is always COMING...ALWAYS. Yet religion, theology,denominations all proclaim a "second" coming. I know I must stand alone with my faith...but happy at His many comings. :dsunny:

I'm about the same, including the writings of JP Eby.

I don't discount an end this world.  I just don't think that it will be anything like Christian theology has propounded.  We are confused.  "nobodies right if everybodies wrong".  At times it is laughable at times and at other times makes me want to cry.

It is ripe for heretic snatchings.   It is also ripe for a great awakening.  Who will be able to tell the difference?  His sheep continue to hear His voice.

.

Wow!
   AMEN !!   

  No man  of sin /  as one dead     can never know the coming of Christ
for its   those whom are awaiting the  coming of Light the Lords Day       in the SPIRIT       


The veil of our flesh is a  dark covering  and heavy   weight that besets us (of a problem or difficulty) trouble or threaten persistently.
  its the true enmity   /foe     against the Spirit


   Jesus told the  Jewish   nation   they  didnt know the time of their visitation   !

the LIGHT HAD COME  TO THEM NEAR  , but they were still under the   dark cloud / witness of stupor slumber  /asleep of    death 
by Gods wisdom  to bring in all other nations     before hand
this prophecy being fulfilled by the work of God  and His promise to Israel       in the very Spirit of Elijah would all the   true prophets sent by the Father    would declare   proclaim, announce, state, reveal, air, voice, articulate, express, vent, set forth, publicize, broadcast HIS SON !!  THE COMING OF CHRIST TO US ...
 

    John   the baptizer      was   going to announce     that the  Dayspring from on high     the Lightof heaven  was coming to visit and Shine   upon us   whom sat in   the darkness of  ignorance to the ways of God

  The Birth of John the Baptist ,  The   forerunner and  friend of   Bridegroom

57When it was time for Elizabeth's baby to be born, she gave birth to a son. 58And when her neighbors and relatives heard that the Lord had been very merciful to her, everyone rejoiced with her.
59When the baby was eight days old, they all came for the circumcision ceremony. They wanted to name him Zechariah, after his father. 60But Elizabeth said, "No! His name is John!"

61"What?" they exclaimed. "There is no one in all your family by that name."

62So they used gestures to ask the baby's father what he wanted to name him.

63He motioned for a writing tablet, and to everyone's surprise he wrote, "His name is John." 64Instantly Zechariah could speak again, and he began praising God.

65Awe fell upon the whole neighborhood, and the news of what had happened spread throughout the Judean hills. 66Everyone who heard about it reflected on these events and asked, "What will this child turn out to be?" For the hand of the Lord was surely upon him in a special way.

Zechariah's Prophecy

67Then his father, Zechariah, was filled with the Holy Spirit and gave this prophecy:
68"Praise the Lord, the God of Israel,
because he has visited and redeemed his people.
69He has sent us a mighty Saviorg
from the royal line of his servant David,
70just as he promised
through his holy prophets long ago.
71Now we will be saved from our enemies
and from all who hate us.
72He has been merciful to our ancestors
by remembering his sacred covenant—
73the covenant he swore with an oath
to our ancestor Abraham.
74We have been rescued from our enemies
so we can serve God without fear,
75in holiness and righteousness
for as long as we live.
76"And you, my little son,
will be called the prophet of the Most High,
because you will prepare the way for the Lord.
77You will tell his people how to find salvation
through forgiveness of their sins.
78Because of God's tender mercy,
the morning light from heaven is about to break upon us,
79to give light to those who sit in darkness and in the shadow of death,
and to guide us to the path of peace."
80John grew up and became strong in spirit. And he lived in the wilderness until he began his public ministry to Israel.


Do  you see it , tho    I walk though the valley of the shadow of death I will fear no evil for you are with me   !!    Davids psalms   another prophecy fulfilled

I do believe  when the old is fulfilled totally    as death and its shadows     are gone by the LIGHT AND KNOWLEDGE OF   GOD   though Christ       than shall all  things become new   in   LIVING   in Jesus Christ    the LIGHT OF THE WORLD   

  We wait on the Lord      and wait  for Him   

  I  believe the Lord comes   many times as well  in the clouds of GLORY  TO HIS NAME    quickening     us by the SPIRIT OF TRUTH AND LIFE IN GOD  !!! 

-Seth has a good point. All creation earnestly waits for the "manifestation of the sons of God"
-So does Julie. Is it possible He has come already? The answer in part is yes.The return of Jesus Christ is in two parts. The first part is the "appearing" of the Son of Man from heaven. This means He doesn't yet physically return but begins to reveal Himself "from heaven" to the world though a human vessel or vessels. The second part would be His coming to the earth to set up His kingdom and reign on the earth. This is what most people are looking for as the second coming. It is actually His third coming. With the separation of His appearing and His coming in mind what should we be looking for to recognize this appearing. Ask yourself what did He do the first time He was here as the Son of Man. What miracles did He perform, what signs did He display. Things only He could know about people he revealed to them, like the woman at the well. Then most importantly how He opened the Word to reveal It's true meaning...symbolic of the breaking of bread that allowed those He walked with on the road to Emmaus to recognize Him at last. As it was in the days of Lot, so it shall be...

Quote from: TheVisitor on November 29, 2014, 07:48:56 PM
The first part is the "appearing" of the Son of Man from heaven. This means He doesn't yet physically return but begins to reveal Himself "from heaven" to the world though a human vessel or vessels. Hence Julie's question "could it have happened already?"

Good point.

Quote from: TheVisitor on November 29, 2014, 07:48:56 PM
The second part is His coming to the earth to set up His kingdom and reign on the earth with His bride. This second part is after the tribulation period, after the resurrection, after the rapture of those still living who are glorified and meet Him in the air before the tribulation even starts.

That is where sincere believers differ.  All the different interpretations are based on scripture.  There are five tradition models for interpreting the book of Revelation.

historicist method

idealist method

preterist method

Mostly futuristic method

moderate futurist method

https://bible.org/article/interpretive-models-book-revelation-whole

The writer of the article embraces the Mostly futurist method.  There are many articles written on the 5 ways of interpreting the book.  All of these interpretive methods have an influence on the doctrine that is finally embraced.

Personally I don't know about such things.  They are a bit over my head.  I prefer the idealist method because it does not box the "return of Christ" into a specific wave of events.

I tend to look at the present reign of Christ rather the the shadow of the past or the unknown future.

Quote from: TheVisitor on November 29, 2014, 07:48:56 PM
This part is what most people are looking for as the second coming. It is actually His third coming.

Don't leave out the time he came to me!!!!!

Quote from: TheVisitor on November 29, 2014, 07:48:56 PM
With this misconception that is taught and accepted as the norm, most of christianity will miss His second coming as sure as He said they would when He said He would come when they weren't watching. "As a thief in the night".

Interestingly enough the term "second coming" is not once mentioned in the Bible.

Quote from: TheVisitor on November 29, 2014, 07:48:56 PM
So is it possible He has come already? The answer in part is yes. With the separation of His appearing and His coming in mind what should we be looking for to recognize this appearing. Ask yourself what did He do the first time He was here as the Son of Man. What miracles did He perform, what signs did He display. Things only He could know about people he revealed to them, like the woman at the well. Then most importantly how He opened the Word to reveal It's true meaning...symbolic of the breaking of bread that allowed those He walked with on the road to Emmaus to recognize Him at last. As it was in the days of the Son of Man, so it shall be...

I'm with you there.  I think that the book of Matthew is an interesting study on the topic.  His disciples asked Jesus about when the kingdom was going to come.  He told them that some would still be alive for that event.

I live on the west coast, of bc, the only thing washed up is a harley and a drifting boat and plastic pails.as for the pills,I haven't heard a single person ever discuss this issue of radiation,etc.I have a healthy knowledge of life in and around Vancouver and will say the mass exodus is not happening....quite the contrary
DO NOT BELEIVE EVERYTHING !
I am enjoying life here and come visit and see for yourself
blessings

I never rode a Harley that floated. I'm wondering how one washed up. Was it in a wooden crate or what? Vancouver is a beautiful city.

QuoteI'm with you there.  I think that the book of Matthew is an interesting study on the topic.  His disciples asked Jesus about when the kingdom was going to come.  He told them that some would still be alive for that event.

I do favor the "mostly futuristic model" but I would guess all the models have some merit.
Jesus said "some would not see death until they see the kingdom come into power".
Let's look at that statement for a moment. I believe all scripture has a compound meaning.
The disciples went to the upper room when the Spirit came down like a mighty rushing wind and endued them with power. So in that way they did see the kingdom begin then. But then one of them - John - saw a vision given to him by Jesus Christ Himself on the isle of Patmos at about 90 years old and also saw the kingdom coming into power on earth in the future.
He said "I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day and I heard a trumpet speaking behind me and I turned to look".
The things he described were events then yet to happen. He looked back to see two thousand years into the future.
You could say I'm describing a "mostly futuristic model" although I believe many of these events have now already happened.
According to the Egyptian astronomy calendar the year 2000 was actually 31 years ago. 1983. So...it's already later than we think.

 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, the things which must soon take place; and He sent and communicated it by His angel to His bond-servant John, 2 who testified to the word of God and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, even to all that he saw. 3 Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of the prophecy, and heed the things which are written in it; for the time is near.

4 John to the seven churches that are in Asia: Grace to you and peace, from Him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne, 5 and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth.

I believe the book of revelation explains itself more than most want to admit, because the explanations it gives don't fit their systematic theology. In the opening verses, the author(God through Jesus through the Spirit through John) explains clearly that the revelation is for the churches(ecclesia, called out ones, assemblies in Christ) and that the time is "at hand/nigh".

I believe the revelation through John incorporates the "was and is and is to come" (speaks into the past present and future) of God, meaning it is ALWAYS speaking in the NOW, and, it says exactly that repeatedly.

"Let the one who has ears to hear, hear what the Spirit is saying to the churches"

The word of God is LIVING and ACTIVE (means immediate and applicable) and sharper than any two-edged sword((goes to primary purpose) dividing asunder soul and spirit, bone and marrow MAKING MANIFEST THE THOUGHTS AND INTENTIONS OF THE HEART.


Rev 2:23  Then all the churches(assemblies/congregations) will know that I am the one who searches men's hearts and minds, and that I will reward each one of you according to your deeds.


In the closing verses again it is made clear, "the time(for this revelation) is at hand" and the exhortation is to read and to "keep the words" of the book. Those words have been read and kept by thoise who have an ear to hear for two thousand years, and in every generation since they were given they have spoken to the assemblies, revealing the mind of Christ in the "heavenly realms in Christ Jesus" - what is real beyond the veil.



Rev 22:10 And he *said to me, "Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near. 11 Let the one who does wrong, still do wrong; and the one who is filthy, still be filthy; and let the one who is righteous, still practice righteousness; and the one who is holy, still keep himself holy."

12 "Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end."

14 Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter by the gates into the city. 15 Outside are the dogs and the sorcerers and the immoral persons and the murderers and the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices lying.

16 "I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star."

17 The Spirit and the bride say, "Come." And let the one who hears say, "Come." And let the one who is thirsty come; let the one who wishes take the water of life without cost.


Let the one who hears say COME (this is the message) is thirsty COME(drink from the fountain that flows from those who hear what the Spirit is saying), drink FREELY.

He that believes in me out of His innermost being will flow rivers of living water.

I believe there are historical elements to the prophecy, but I think it speaks of itself that its primary purpose is to celebrate the marriage of the Lamb and His Bride, which is also and unveiling of them one to another, as He removes her veil, becomes one with her in devotion as she "makes herself ready", and that is always going on.

When the Bridegroom comes(He is always coming) and the cry is heard in the night(the Bridegroom cometh!) the virgins who have prepared themselves will go to where His voice is and partake in the wedding feast, the others will not get there in time, and will be left behind.

In every generation as God speaks, always NEW, LIVING and ACTIVE, some people hear and move(Come to a place I will show you.....Come up here) to where the Lord is and some don't.

:2c:

I'm sorry. I didn't mean to offend anyone here. "At hand" could be thousands of years in God's time. He doesn't get in a hurry.
Theses things are not just in Revelations. They tie together all through the scriptures.
A semicolon could separate two thousand years. Like in Isaiah 61. The Jews missed that in their day of visitation, just as the Gentiles are now in the process of missing theirs. For exactly the same reasons. They've have had the same amount of time. There were 1954 years from the promise given to Abraham to the birth of the Messiah. And from His death and resurrection, that same amount of time would be 1987. Our day of visitation is at hand. Most will miss it putting theses promises somewhere in the past or the future but failing to see what God has said He would be doing now. That's always the way it's been. God is not just a God of history of course. His is always alive and working in His people. The final voice to the final age is the voice of the Bride saying "Come"...
But, the Bridegroom won't always be coming my friend. 

  Well I just talked to my Niece   yesterday about spiritual things we had a great visit

   She asked me why can  I cannot understand the Bible aunt Rose ?   

  She went on and told me many have told her to just keep reading it anyway .

  I told her its because  , Jesus   the lamb of God has not opened the seals of the book for her yet ''.

I told her to pray to Him about it .

  After  we talked I  thanked God   for her    looking  to Him for answers    and not in the world
  and  Just how blessed we really are , Have we forgotten      that place !!! 

  I told her I had remembered the first time    a ray of Light come in ISAIAH     for me   and how thrilled  I was to   understand it ,I LOVED IT !   and enough charge   to keep going   , beginning the hunger and thirst  for His righteousness      , the world is in chaos  , in constant   upheaval    and our only   comfort is from trusting in the Lord Jesus Christ    and bad news ...   

So many years ago , it was exactly like a ''foreign language '''    the Folks at Tentmakers are   soooooo    very Blessed      to have so much  confirmation   of Gods plan  ,  will   and  the Good news  of this gospel     

  Do you know     how many questions and needing    the truth    to set us free   this process takes a lifetime !! 

and all of it  stems   from HIS LOVE  for all of us ,
all the evil in mankind  and what we see and hear and know on a daily basis      and yet HIS MERCY IS STILL  THERE and creating all things new  and better than before     and   most  of mankind is not even aware of it !!

and yet we can go to Him and He is near    , right there within you   to lead and guide you , we are to point to Him   for others looking   for Jesus  , He comes to dwell within you  and doing the work    and no thing/ beast / creature  on the outside has a clue   to His presence

  only by the   HOLY Spirit of Truth do we know anything at all

Quote from: TheVisitor on November 30, 2014, 04:58:55 PM
I'm sorry. I didn't mean to offend anyone here.

We grow together.  :dsunny:

James 5
16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed .

It is good to be able to say what is on your mind.  Say it like you see it with no fear of being doctrinally bullied.  I think a healthy faith changes as new information is introduced.  Some times the only way to get healed is to bluntly lay it on the line and say it like you see it.  No fear.

.

Quote from: ed on November 30, 2014, 05:53:14 PM

Quote from: TheVisitor on November 30, 2014, 04:58:55 PM
I'm sorry. I didn't mean to offend anyone here.

We grow together.  :dsunny:

James 5
16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed .

It is good to be able to say what is on your mind.  Say it like you see it with no fear of being doctrinally bullied.  I think a healthy faith changes as new information is introduced.  Some times the only way to get healed is to bluntly lay it on the line and say it like you see it.  No fear.

.

  Exactly right

You will be     despised ,ignored and spoken against and mistreated and     tried  by many to become discouraged   , Just keep gathering into Christ !
still trying to count it as joy   in the Lord Jesus Christ    , He is our   solid      ROCK   and   protection   

  Just remember     Luke 2   Jesus testimony  is   the  sign and standard    spoken against  :sigh:


33And His father and mother were amazed at the things which were being said about Him.


34And Simeon blessed them and said to Mary His mother,


"Behold, this Child is appointed for the fall and rise of many in Israel, and for a sign to be opposed--

35and a sword will pierce even your own soul-- to the end that thoughts from many hearts may be revealed."

He who  is not with me     is against Me , and  does not gather with Me  ,  but   scatters  abroad

   the rising and falling of many to be   made known   , the resurrecting and deaths   of many in this    spiritual warfare

No offense whatsoever. We are just discussing/sharing perspectives.

But our perspectives also involve the actual words of scripture and the context within which those words are set.

Of course, regarding John's apocalypse that can be more difficult, because it is full of the language of metaphor, type, symbol- hence many varied perspectives coming from honest minds- often all bearing elements of truth but different degrees of emphasis. As you have said the revelations/word pictures/types are compound in nature.

My perspective is that the revelation was given mainly for  believers, the ecclesia,  for the purpose of revealing their destiny and the plan of God as it manifests the fulness of Christ for the recovery of the whole creation.

I think the revelation was given as an immediate opening(unsealed/unveiled/apocalypse) of the mind of God and Christ, living and active and relevant in every generation until the end of this age. Bearing gifts always "at hand". The word "engys" (greek at hand, near) occurs 30 times in the NT, in virtually every case denoting close proximity in time or in distance.

But that's just my two cents worth, given as weight in the balance of ongoing discussion :o)

Rusted floating on debris
Harley Davidson actually tracked down the owner and replaced it :)

Wow

  Eagles way wrote
.My perspective is that the revelation was given mainly for  believers, the ecclesia,  for the purpose of revealing their destiny and the plan of God as it manifests the fulness of Christ for the recovery of the whole creation.

I have a different perceptive not a better perspective just different.

I believe the book of revelations is for the unbeliever.
The idea of a book that could be prophetic tweaks   their interest .
It is worded in such a way. That to find out what it means you have to study other writings in the bible.
Leading you to find out about Jesus,
the purpose of revelations is to reveal Jesus .
Like the miraculous and the prophetic nature of the early disciples the gifts where used to draw a crowd ,and influence many.

Quote from: dajomaco on December 01, 2014, 10:25:44 PM
  Eagles way wrote
.My perspective is that the revelation was given mainly for  believers, the ecclesia,  for the purpose of revealing their destiny and the plan of God as it manifests the fulness of Christ for the recovery of the whole creation.

I have a different perceptive not a better perspective just different.

I believe the book of revelations is for the unbeliever.
The idea of a book that could be prophetic tweaks   their interest .
It is worded in such a way. That to find out what it means you have to study other writings in the bible.
Leading you to find out about Jesus,
the purpose of revelations is to reveal Jesus .
Like the miraculous and the prophetic nature of the early disciples the gifts where used to draw a crowd ,and influence many.

Only the what you speak of is NOT the "book of revelations."  :sigh:
It is THE REVELATION OF JESUS CHRIST and is not a "tweak" book.
I hope I did not offend you, but the thought that the unveiling or revealing of Jesus Christ is for unbelievers upset me some.
"My perspective is that the revelation was given mainly for  believers, the ecclesia,  for the purpose of revealing their destiny and the plan of God as it manifests the fulness of Christ for the recovery of the whole creation.

I think the revelation was given as an immediate opening(unsealed/unveiled/apocalypse) of the mind of God and Christ, living and active and relevant in every generation until the end of this age. Bearing gifts always "at hand". The word "engys" (greek at hand, near) occurs 30 times in the NT, in virtually every case denoting close proximity in time or in distance." Eaglesway

See what it says in Rev. 1:1 "to shew to his servants what things it behoveth to come to pass quickly; and he did signify it," what it will signify(show with signs and symbols) will come quickly to his servants within the servants mind for understanding. When that happens, it will no longer be servant but FRIEND :HeartThrob: :dsunny: [oops....I add ....this is my opinion]

If you look at the books that are bestsellers .
Then the ones that are bestsellers that talk about Jesus are few.
Some of the only information that an unbeliever will ever read are in these books.
Marketers and mass media treat the book of relations
as a toy a fun thing to make money off of.

But because even a portion of the book of revelations is being read.
The unbeliever can be exposed to Jesus.
That Jesus is being read about. Is a an ear hearing what the spirit says.

Many many unbelieving  people come to the word because of the book of revelations.
A lot of other (believers) make a ton of money from the book.

Quote from: micah7:9 on December 01, 2014, 10:53:13 PM

Quote from: dajomaco on December 01, 2014, 10:25:44 PM
  Eagles way wrote
.My perspective is that the revelation was given mainly for  believers, the ecclesia,  for the purpose of revealing their destiny and the plan of God as it manifests the fulness of Christ for the recovery of the whole creation.

I have a different perceptive not a better perspective just different.

I believe the book of revelations is for the unbeliever.
The idea of a book that could be prophetic tweaks   their interest .
It is worded in such a way. That to find out what it means you have to study other writings in the bible.
Leading you to find out about Jesus,
the purpose of revelations is to reveal Jesus .
Like the miraculous and the prophetic nature of the early disciples the gifts where used to draw a crowd ,and influence many.

Only the what you speak of is NOT the "book of revelations."  :sigh:
It is THE REVELATION OF JESUS CHRIST and is not a "tweak" book.
I hope I did not offend you, but the thought that the unveiling or revealing of Jesus Christ is for unbelievers upset me some.
"My perspective is that the revelation was given mainly for  believers, the ecclesia,  for the purpose of revealing their destiny and the plan of God as it manifests the fulness of Christ for the recovery of the whole creation.

I think the revelation was given as an immediate opening(unsealed/unveiled/apocalypse) of the mind of God and Christ, living and active and relevant in every generation until the end of this age. Bearing gifts always "at hand". The word "engys" (greek at hand, near) occurs 30 times in the NT, in virtually every case denoting close proximity in time or in distance." Eaglesway

See what it says in Rev. 1:1 "to shew to his servants what things it behoveth to come to pass quickly; and he did signify it," what it will signify(show with signs and symbols) will come quickly to his servants within the servants mind for understanding. When that happens, it will no longer be servant but FRIEND :HeartThrob: :dsunny: [oops....I add ....this is my opinion]

I look forward to and value your comments and postings. :dsunny: :Peace2:

Here I am, walking in a valley that has been given me...thankful  yes...and when I read things like "When Jesus comes back!" I look down as I walk, looking for sign, an example, I read where I walk, I have a book, my map and compass, I am put in my valley as Adam was put in the garden... to learn. Yes I am thankful and fearful, I am 70 years an old dog learning new things, difficult.
The multitude that zero in on that question "When Jesus comes back," makes me wonder if they ever knew He Came, HE IS COMING, and will Come.
Jesus most CERTAINLY came back and IS HERE NOW because, Joh 16:7  `But I tell you the truth; it is better for you that I go away, for if I may not go away, the Comforter will not come unto you, and if I go on, I will send Him unto you;
Heb 13:5  Without covetousness the behaviour, being content with the things present, for He hath said, `No, I will not leave, no, nor forsake thee,'

How could a stated offering such as, "`No, I will not leave, no, nor forsake thee,'
If HE had not came back!
So now for all you folks who are asking, "When Jesus comes back," KNOW THAT HE HAS sadly you have not recognized Him just as it was so when He approached THE Cross.