What does it to mean to love God?

[JulieTang84]

Perhaps there is a better word than "feelings".

Ok, how about "experiences?" Again, I am not intending to discount your experience. Obvisouly, Paul had an experience too. But it was different from yours. And yours is different from mine.

What I get from the OP is that US is wondering if Jesus is with him, why doesn't he feel that? What I am saying is that Jesus made a promise, and it doesn't matter what he feels, the promise is valid. I am not saying that US will not someday have a grand experience, but he doesn't have to suffer doubt or question Christ's presence because that hasn't happened for him yet.

The reason I am stressing this point has to do with what I have seen in churches. People pretending to be happy, because sadness means God has left you, and if God has left you, then obviously something is wrong with you or God or maybe the Bible isn't truthful....

It can lead to what I call Christian superstition. If Universal Sceptic is sad, or struggling with his emotion, Jesus will still be there. Jesus already gave US his love by sending his Son to die for his sin. He is already a partaker of God's love for him.

:dontknow: what is 'OP? I see it is used but I am clueless.....'

All what you say is true, so very true. Life can be very Cruel. I believe I was born with a good portion of Faith but I was a blind as the blindest bat. I believe Life before Christ is revealed SPIRITUALLY is the greatest test of FAITH. It wasn't until Father was good and ready, before I could see and it was NOTHING that I can see that I did  :dontknow:

Seth, I in no way implied that anyone will have the SAME experience as I. Just that HE WOULD KNOW.

And, Julie, what I am saying is that he can know NOW. He doesn't have to wait to know.

And I am saying Seth, that it is a different knowledge. The first is natural, the latter, Spiritual as one becomes a new person and KNOWS it.  :dsunny:


Love Julie  :HeartThrob:

[Seth]

I think OP means "original post." If not then I have been using it wrong.

And I am saying Seth, that it is a different knowledge. The first is natural, the latter, Spiritual as one becomes a new person and KNOWS it. 

I guess, then, we have different ideas of knowledge. What you might call "natural" I would call "foundational." What I am saying is that US can have the foundational knowledge now, and if there are verifications through experiences, fine, but if not, that's also fine. Having the foundational trust that Christ is with him will protect him from second guessing his place with God because he hasn't had an experience.

[JulieTang84]

 :friendstu:   Foundational - Sounds perfect, because surely it is a perfect base that Christ himself laid.


Love it!!!!  :HeartThrob:


Love Julie  :girlheart:

[Graph1159]

For me, in my relationship with God, I don't really feel much. But somehow, things just happen. I do (or don't do) a certain thing. And after those instances, I am very aware that had it not been for my faith and love for God, I would have done differently. Instead of feeling "close" to God (in a way like I feel with human relationships), I feel like He is sending signals to me from afar that influence my life.

I sense that this kind of relationship does not represent the highest spiritual maturity. I don't want to get enthusiastic about it in a way that would cause me to cling to it if God wants me to grow beyond it. But for the time being, I feel that it is the way it is, and I'm content with it.

Samuel

[sheila]

what?Iv'e never heard about any two amens,then drop your'e veiw it's settled.

    where did this come from,Jock.?I've never heard ofsuch a thing.

[Seer After Truth]

I have been thinking about this thread for a few hours now (It is 10:45 pm where I am and I am running out of time) and it actually is a very important question.  However, as I do not have enough time to share what is on my heart and mind right now, I would like to make a couple of brief comments now an perhaps tomorrow or Saturday say a little more.

First of all, I understand all responses to Universal skeptic's predicament.  I even understand all responses to other people's responses. However, I do not need to agree or disagree with anyone's position/opinion, nor am I saying I have a problem with anyone agreeing or disagreeing with anyone's position/opinion either.

So I will get to my point.  I understand what Julie was getting at.  Not that her experience is mine, as what I have said before on this forum is that we all have our own path to walk that is ours alone.  But what she was/is saying is the truth.  She has had a mystical experience with God and it has forever altered her.  It is hard to convey what one has experienced without being misunderstood. I have had multiple mystical experiences - things like having understanding of a scripture or something about God and then reading it later, a witness rising literally in my heart/chest, knowing God is there, etc.  In fact, sometimes I cannot take it it can be overwhelming.  Even my coming to understand universal reconciliation was a revelation! 

I have read enough of Julie's responses to know that God is with her.  She has a particular way of speaking that is interesting, but nothing she says to my observation is contrary to scripture or God or anything. 

I think we come alongside each other and help people persevere.  The lesson of Job is not that he was not mad, but that he persisted.

Peace to all,

William 

[Seth]

:friendstu:   Foundational - Sounds perfect, because surely it is a perfect base that Christ himself laid.


Love it!!!!  :HeartThrob:


Love Julie  :girlheart:

:thumbsup:

[Jock]

Julie, you said,

First off, contrary to what you have been told. You will FEEL Father when he is present. So, does US look for a feeling then? I told him that the Lord will "seem" to depart after a while to draw the believer into Him.

You seem to be saying something else??

I do love you Julie and I don't want you to be upset but I couldn't sit on this one.

Love in Christ

Jock .

[Jock]

Blimey, this thread grew pretty quickly!

RoseRed. I was just in BLB and copied the same thing you did about the Amen. Oh well. In my past affiliations, I have seen the Amen banded about very casually and wantonly. The same was true with words like "brother" and "sister" and "signs, miracles and wonders" and "revival" among others.

I went through a time of questioning things. (This was done in a seeking way before God and He was happy to let me do this)  Like "why are people saying "Amen" all the time? Who is my brother? Who is my sister? Is the revival going to be Pentecostal, Baptist, Catholic, Brethren, on and on ad infinitum.


I came to understand that God is concerned with a witness. The scriptures are a witness, the Holy Spirit is a witness, the body of Christ is a witness. Those things in any combination lets me know it is truth, it is faithful, it is the Amen and I can speak it. God is not slow in giving me acknowledgement "in the Spirit" that I can stand on that.

Now, I have opinions too but I find that opinions are very often from the human intellect just even "theology" can be just head knowledge. I am learning as I go, to disregard speculation and recognise the Amen. These things are all in the Spirit, not a head thing. I make lots of mistakes though but my brethren on these boards are merciful and that is projecting the love of God  :gimmefive:

Rosered and Shiela, this is my conviction about those things.

Shalom

Jock.  :Peace2:

[shawn]

First off, contrary to what you have been told. You will FEEL Father when he is present, on very much the same way you can feel the lack of a presence of a loved one when they are absent. You will KNOW the moment Father makes himself known and the moment he leaves or closes the door. These are NOT  emotional feelings that some think all feelings are. Call it a Spiritual inner most feeling, or a peace that is there and then not.

Hello Julie,
I grew up in a Pentacostal/Charasmatic environment, and I saw people struggle so much with fear and doubt based on their feelings. Feelings are great, but they are based on our physical bodies. We feel things because we have nerves and chemical reactions in our brains. If one of those chemical reactions goes awry and we are left with feelings that may have nothing to do with God leaving us, then we are essentially in slavery to the sensations of our flesh if we place that assumption. Universal Sceptic's feelings could have nothing to do with God supposedly distant from him.

What if Universal Sceptic's feelings had to do with neuron reactions, lack of nutrition, depression (which I can say confidently that findings have suggested to be a matter of physical imbalances in the brain) or any other manner of stimuli? You can never know why he had those feelings, so I don't think he should have to struggle and fight with his feelings as being the basis for whether his Father is at his side.

To me that viewpoint can lead to alot of self-condemnation.

Good post.

[JulieTang84]

Julie, you said,

First off, contrary to what you have been told. You will FEEL Father when he is present. So, does US look for a feeling then? I told him that the Lord will "seem" to depart after a while to draw the believer into Him.

You seem to be saying something else??

I do love you Julie and I don't want you to be upset but I couldn't sit on this one.

Love in Christ

Jock .

Some times there are simply no words to describe what is on one's heart.

Perhaps a better word than feel could have been used. It's like the age old question: "mom how will I know I am in love for real?"  Mom says: "You will know" with that knowing comes feelings that are different from puppy love of lust.

To me, everything changed. I could feel a deep love, warmth, a light even inside my very being. Not my mind.

Perhaps I have a fundamental different view regarding feelings. For example, a singer may be perfect in  everyway, but if she does not "connect" with the audience with FEELINGS of conviction, the song will be hollow. My dad always told me when I learned to drive. To NOT drive the  car, but guide it instead. He said that the car is "talking" to me all the time, not through words so that I might hear, but in subtle ways that I must learn to feel.I think on that as one of the greatest lessons my dad ever gave me. Such "feelings" veto the mind and that is a good thing.

A good musician feels the music, as does an artist. US will KNOW when Father enters his life and when he has the gifted eyes to see and ears to hear, the inner most spiritual feelings will surpass all emotions. Jesus, said: let those who can hear, hear. He wasn't talking about ears.

No offence taken or implied.

Love Julie  :HeartThrob:

[sheila]

the Shepherd may relate to the flock as a whole...and prod the flock as a whole..and the whole

flock is indeed the Shepherds.  But then...the Shepherd may relate individually with any

given sheep...and at that time..the sheep knows that shepherd is relating to it on a

personal level..

   also,I have found this true with the scriptures...we,as His flock have these as a

sheepfold[enclosure] for us all.  and then..when He places this word in our hearts individually

there is a difference..[personally=call out His sheep individually by name]


   there is a washing with His word..exteriorly...and then He implants individually[personally]

    His word in us.....  I call it 'quickening"   It is like His word/blood/life covers us all/flock

but then at some point..that blood/covering/life that covers us..becomes His blood/life

in us...and 'quickens' springs up" from within.[individually] and out of our belly[inner] it flws.


     It is alwaays up to the shepherd to know the appearance of His flock...as a whole and

individually.     so, I would say to such ones..know you are inside His word[covered]..and the

time will come when youwill know His word is also inside you.............

    Seth brought up good points and so did Julie.

   God judges between a sheep and a sheep..and no sheep of the Lord's should have

to drink muddied up water..or be shoved to the side..or be made to feel 'lacking" in any way

or secound rate.   It is a growth thing..and God who grows it..  He certainly knows how

to discipline any that should make such ones feel of no-account..or less then precious

to the Lord.  the Shepherds crook will certainly find such 'unruly' ones as these.

   

[sheila]

and ps Julie...I do not think it was your intent to make any who had not the expierence yet

to feel 'less'.  and Seth,yes, there has been times where ssuch who had not expierenced

it yet,were made to feel 'less'.

  valid points valid concerns both imo

[rosered]

  All is well Bro Jock ,
      I just say amen when in agreement with the Witness of the Holy Spirit moving on the forum when it quickens somthing in me
  call me old school    , but I believe our hearts are in the right place  when we  agree and also   define   with the details    what the Lord asks of us  , sharing and caring is never  a bad thing among Gods children  , its letting the HOLY SPIRIT flow freely    and not hindered by our own flesh 
quenching the Spirit

I  mainly use Amen when  I read this  scripture Rev 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things says the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God

 
its acknowledging  ''  the AMEN ''  Which is Jesus Christ our faithful witness  as let it be so and continue    that we are  in the sign of agreement     with one another as well as in agreement with HIM !!!    :dsunny:



Mar 16:20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.


Rev 7:12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.

[Jock]

Rosered, thank you for your post and your kind heart.

Blessings

Jock.

[Jock]

Shiela

I take it that you are correcting me. Your post seemed to be aimed my way? I will leave my heart open to be corrected if it is necessary.

You sounded pretty angry, sorry bout that.

Jock.   :sigh:

[JulieTang84]

and ps Julie...I do not think it was your intent to make any who had not the expierence yet

to feel 'less'.  and Seth,yes, there has been times where ssuch who had not expierenced

it yet,were made to feel 'less'.

  valid points valid concerns both imo

Dear Sheila  how gracious you are. If any thing I feel less than any other person and what I am about will hopefully not be taken the wrong way. But, I would gladly give anyone what Father has given me. Not that I need feel greater, but I would give everyone the love and beauty that is now my life. I am no one special, least of all on my own eyes.

Love Julie  :HeartThrob:

[JulieTang84]

Seer After Truth

Thank you William  :friendstu:

Love Julie  :HeartThrob:

[rosered]

 
  Hi Julie

its a shame that    anyone   feels picked on  or  less

  Not what any of us are trying to do
  I do not understand how this happens so often    those misunderstandings , but know 
  we are all to love one another and and share what God gives though His grace and glorify HIM


I love this and will place it as a reminder , to myself as well as to others

  I never intended to choose sides ok , not my practice  ,
  just thought the Amen was  needing more clarity as Jock has pointed out as a good thing I believe  , not to harm but to Bless
 
and Let the HOLY SPIRIT FLOW   TODAY    peace to those whom love His peace  :dsunny:     

And so, dear brothers and sisters,  I plead with you to give your bodies to God because of all he has done for you. Let them be a living and holy sacrifice—the kind he will find acceptable. This is truly the way to worship him. ] 


Rom 12:2 Don't copy the behavior and customs of this world, but let God transform you into a new person by changing the way you think. Then you will learn to know God's will for you, which is good and pleasing and perfect.   



Rom 12:3 Because of the privilege and authority  God has given me, I give each of you this warning: Don't think you are better than you really are.

Be honest in your evaluation of yourselves, measuring yourselves by the faith God has given us.   


Rom 12:4 Just as our bodies have many parts and each part has a special function, 


Rom 12:5 so it is with Christ's body. We are many parts of one body, and we all belong to each other. 
Rom 12:6 In his grace, God has given us different gifts for doing certain things well. So if God has given you the ability to prophesy, speak out with as much faith as God has given you. 


Rom 12:7 If your gift is serving others, serve them well. If you are a teacher, teach well. 


Rom 12:8 If your gift is to encourage others, be encouraging. If it is giving, give generously. If God has given you leadership ability, take the responsibility seriously. And if you have a gift for showing kindness to others, do it gladly. 


Rom 12:9 Don't just pretend to love others. Really love them. Hate what is wrong. Hold tightly to what is good. 


Rom 12:10 Love each other with genuine affection,  and take delight in honoring each other. 


Rom 12:11 Never be lazy, but work hard and serve the Lord enthusiastically. [fn] 


Rom 12:12 Rejoice in our confident hope. Be patient in trouble, and keep on praying. 


Rom 12:13 When God's people are in need, be ready to help them. Always be eager to practice hospitality. 
Rom 12:14 Bless those who persecute you. Don't curse them; pray that God will bless them. 


Rom 12:15 Be happy with those who are happy, and weep with those who weep. 


Rom 12:16 Live in harmony with each other. Don't be too proud to enjoy the company of ordinary people. And don't think you know it all! 

Rom 12:17 Never pay back evil with more evil. Do things in such a way that everyone can see you are honorable. 


Rom 12:18 Do all that you can to live in peace with everyone. 

[sheila]

No Jock,I'm not angry with you. So sorry if you thought so.  I had never heard of 'the snctity' of the

amen etc  ever! I do however disagree.  On a discussion

board we will have people that will often times find merit in seemingly different points of veiw.

  or that if two people say 'amen' end of discussion.   while I don't think it is a good thing to

endlessly expound/argue different veiwpoints....I think a veiw needs to be thoroughly expressed.


   I have no intention of abiding by that 'rule'  if two people say 'amen' to someones post..

    and I feel I have something to add,or to be considered,I will.  Not to be contentious......

  but the Holy spirit in me shall not be bound by any such rule/regulation.


  what? two people say 'amen' and the rest shut up and sit down..that's the end of the discussion?

   sometimes people have things to say that were not considered..and need to be taken into

account also.     

      He said to His disciples...'I HAVE MANY THINGS YET TO SAY TO YOU"

   actually Jock...I feel I have amened Seth and Julie both. within me resounds truth in both

  being verified.  I would be a liar if I said. or.if I tesified otherwise.

   love to you,brother  :friendstu:

   The Lord said..'when I found you people it was like finding grapes in the desert...and I said,

   'do not destroy! there is a blessing in it!"

   

[Jock]

That's cool Shiela. I'm not really saying that people should sit down and shut up. I'm only saying that Christ (the Amen) is the truth and the standard.

Blessings

PS Glad you're not mad at me  :banana:

[JulieTang84]

 :HeartThrob: RoseRed, thank you. The words from Paulthat you posted just simply sang to my heart, they we do beautiful.

I have often thought of myself as a sole maple leaf bobbing with the current down a stream. Only to discover, the stream is tranquil and breathtaking in it's splendor and the current, gentle on it's flow. Now I just wish to share everything. I never knew the meaning of Heaven on Earth, yet like most, I have surely did my time in Hell.

For all the words we have, how does one share their heart in words? The fruits of the Spirit are thankfully not words.

Father he's given me a strong will and a soft heart. My will is still a little reckless  :doh:

Love Julie  :girlheart:

[JulieTang84]

That's cool Shiela. I'm not really saying that people should sit down and shut up. I'm only saying that Christ (the Amen) is the truth and the standard.

Blessings

PS Glad you're not mad at me  :banana:

Are you at me? The silence is deafening  :sigh:

I truly am so sorry for saying something that you could not let rest.

Please forgive me  :girlheart:

Love Julie  :HeartThrob:

[Seth]

The way I see things can be understood through a hypothetical:

Supposing my daughter and I were in a pitch black room and she couldn't see me and she was scared. I could tell her with my voice that I am here and will not leave her or let her get hurt. If she trusts me, she can have confidence in that. That voice could mean the word of God, or it could be a feeling, or it could be an audible voice. But one thing I think we could all agree on, is the the written word counts as God's voice in a foundational way. Even if someone hasn't heard an audible voice or felt anything, or had a specific validating experience, the voice is also still present in the Word and can be "heard" and trusted in the darkness.

That's how I resolve the understanding between Julie and I, which I don't take to really be a disagreement after all.

[sheila]

   good! wer'e 'cool"  :thumbsup:      and a question? do I give off wrong vibes of 'anger'..

  because  you are not the first person to think I was mad at them,Jock?

   coz if I am..I want to deal with it.

    I have to leave for an appointment in a few minutes...and will read when I get back

   but really is it cause I make it short and to the point? and am perceived as in 'people's face'

over a matter..that makes me come across that way?

ps

   and Jock..ifyou use two amens as a rule to discount any other as coming from the Lord,you

could miss out on a blessing that could be yours...that may come in the form of a double amen

to two post ers!!!

   I'll be eager to have your'e input,when I get back..along with helpful hint's to not come

across that way! :laugh:   :HeartThrob: