What does it to mean to love God?

[UniversalSceptic]

I am not sure if I love God. I mean I don't know how to love him. I feel like I can't communicated with him, so how do I love him? It says he is never leaves us, but I don't feel his love. I send my days depressed. I feel the love of my family is that how you feel god loves.

[Seth]

Hi Universal Sceptic,
I would suggest to try not to base truth on feelings. Just because you don't feel God, does not mean he is not there. He is invisible, and so we cannot see him either. Sight and feelings are physical manifestations. I think what the Lord wants to do is lead us into a faith based solely on trust. Feelings can be part of that, but if they change, it doesn't mean God has changed. He is there regardless of what you feel because he is not dependant on what you feel. He is with you because he promised to be with you, and he cannot lie to you. If he says "I will never leave you or forsake you" you can stand on that, regardless of whatever you feel.

This article might help you understand what the Bible means by "love":  http://mercifultruth.com/doesgodhate.html

[ed]

Romans 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

One thing that I noticed about the struggling apostle Paul is that the will is with him.  Same with you.  The will is with you.  You desire to do good.  That is the perfect starting point.

Inner dialogue is where the relationship takes place.  You have to learn how God talks to you through your own inner dialogue.

What we put in our mind matters.  That is why I said earlier to memorize scriptures that minister to you in particular, and say them to yourself throughout the day.  This is called the renewed mind.   We have to work on our mind in order to bring it to the place that it is in line with love.  Once you got the love going on, you will know that your relationship is good.

.

[Jock]

Hello US. What Seth was saying is absolutely correct. Jesus said to Thomas

"Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed"

When I was a young believer, the Lord was merciful to me and allowed me emotional experiences and a certain "nearness to God". This went on for some time, then He seemed to withdraw from me. You see, He wanted me to walk by faith and not feeling. He was "growing me up"

Many times, when the Lord isn't "felt" is when He is most active in us.  :winkgrin:

The body of Christ, His church is also here to help you.

Shalom

Jock.  :dsunny:

[ed]

Many times, when the Lord isn't "felt" is when He is most active in us.  :winkgrin:

Good point.

Noticing is something.   We notice for a reason.  What goes through the mind when we notice?  A string of complaint?  The complaint should be disregarded.  It is spiritual practice to shake off the complaint and look for the faith so ready to powerfully show itself. 

.

[Seth]

Hello US. What Seth was saying is absolutely correct. Jesus said to Thomas

"Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed"

When I was a young believer, the Lord was merciful to me and allowed me emotional experiences and a certain "nearness to God". This went on for some time, then He seemed to withdraw from me. You see, He wanted me to walk by faith and not feeling. He was "growing me up"

Many times, when the Lord isn't "felt" is when He is most active in us.  :winkgrin:

The body of Christ, His church is also here to help you.

Shalom

Jock.  :dsunny:

:thumbsup: Amen

[rosered]

Amen to the above posts ! :thumbsup:

God is Love  ,  and to know God is to love Him ,
  honestly   when first coming to UR    , I doubted  only because   I wanted to be faithful; to God and show Him   though His Word that  I was sincere
  well  it took God to change my mind over time , to repent  is to truly Change your mind and the heart is  changed also
   when the LORD SAYS AND SPIRIT BEARS WITNESS to it ,   saying   that LOVE /GOD covers the mulititude of sin   and the blood of Jesus  has covered  us all , its  a done deal !!   
  to doubt God will fail just shows our  lack of trust in HIS PERFECT WORK !
and we are stil  going though  the death process and  being made ALIVE  to Him [In Christ ]   the body that is alive to God and full authority  being the head  we are now attached to and hid in !! 

[JulieTang84]

I am not sure if I love God. I mean I don't know how to love him. I feel like I can't communicated with him, so how do I love him? It says he is never leaves us, but I don't feel his love. I send my days depressed. I feel the love of my family is that how you feel god loves.

Hi US, you have asked the most important question ever and while the many answers thus far given are not wrong, I might be able to offer something.  :girlheart:

First off, contrary to what you have been told. You will FEEL Father when he is present, on very much the same way you can feel the lack of a presence of a loved one when they are absent. You will KNOW the moment Father makes himself known and the moment he leaves or closes the door. These are NOT  emotional feelings that some think all feelings are. Call it a Spiritual inner most feeling, or a peace that is there and then not.

I spent years and years loving and believing in a faceless God, only because I did not know how not too. I spent just as many years trying to find Father only to realize that he wasn't lost. I was. Let no one fool you, you can not truly love anyone, until they make themselves known to you, Father included.  This is why Jesus made such a point of saying that no one can know Father until he himself presents this one to Father. Also and most importantly, no one can come to Jesus until Farther draws this one to him.

Until this happens, a loving relationship with either cannot exist, because the relationship does not.

But this must not prevent one from Loving both Father and Jesus the best they know how. I will tell you how I did this.I learned to love myself completely and utterly. To see a loving child of Father as I knew he must see me. No way was this easy because for years of was just a dirty sinner. After that I figured that I needed to learn how to love everyone else in order to learn unconditional love. That was easier than learning to love myself. Then I just loved Farther with the same love.

You will know when Farther draws you to Jesus and when Jesus takes you to Father. Your whole life will change, never to be the same. Friends and family will notice also, and will love what they see new in you. You will KNOW that Father is with you always. You will feel what his presence is and you will know when you drift away and you wI'll know His warmth when you turn around lost and reach for him, because He will be there.

Father left  me for a month or two a couple of years ago. He just left me on my own. I knew it. I felt it. My world lost life.But this is another story. I am not saying beliving that Father is with you even though you have no indication that He is it isnt, is bad. But it's it's so much better KNOWING & FEELING HIS PRESENCE.

Hang in there US, Trust and Faith will carry you through these dark times. They are not easy.

Love Julie  :HeartThrob:

[dajomaco]

When I read what Paul calls Love in Corinthians.
I knew it was impossible for me to truly Love God.

What I can confidently say is God  Loves me.

So the only way I can respond to his Love is to receive it.

Receive it as a gift.   

[JulieTang84]

When I read what Paul calls Love in Corinthians.
I knew it was impossible for me to truly Love God.

What I can confidently say is God  Loves me.

So the only way I can respond to his Love is to receive it.

Receive it as a gift.

:dsunny: wonderfully said

Love Julie  :HeartThrob:

[Seth]

First off, contrary to what you have been told. You will FEEL Father when he is present, on very much the same way you can feel the lack of a presence of a loved one when they are absent. You will KNOW the moment Father makes himself known and the moment he leaves or closes the door. These are NOT  emotional feelings that some think all feelings are. Call it a Spiritual inner most feeling, or a peace that is there and then not.

Hello Julie,
I grew up in a Pentacostal/Charasmatic environment, and I saw people struggle so much with fear and doubt based on their feelings. Feelings are great, but they are based on our physical bodies. We feel things because we have nerves and chemical reactions in our brains. If one of those chemical reactions goes awry and we are left with feelings that may have nothing to do with God leaving us, then we are essentially in slavery to the sensations of our flesh if we place that assumption. Universal Sceptic's feelings could have nothing to do with God supposedly distant from him.

What if Universal Sceptic's feelings had to do with neuron reactions, lack of nutrition, depression (which I can say confidently that findings have suggested to be a matter of physical imbalances in the brain) or any other manner of stimuli? You can never know why he had those feelings, so I don't think he should have to struggle and fight with his feelings as being the basis for whether his Father is at his side.

To me that viewpoint can lead to alot of self-condemnation.

[gregoryfl]

I don't think that Julie has in mind any type of feeling one has to struggle with. As she said, you will FEEL and KNOW. I think she is describing something that happens to a person without them even trying, since it is from God. Not that feelings are an indication of his presence, it is simply an affirmation in our experience of his presence.

[Jock]

Hi Julie

No offence but the posts that US received earlier from Seth and from myself had the Amen from other witnesses. The sanctity of the "Amen" is paramount and lets us know, by God, that we spoke rightly. If it has the Amen and others disagree, then they should depart from any error on their part and submit to Christ. I have to say that I found your reply to US, quite hard to read.

Blessings

Jock.  :Peace2:

[rosered]

Hi Julie

No offence but the posts that US received earlier from Seth and from myself had the Amen from other witnesses. The sanctity of the "Amen" is paramount and lets us know, by God, that we spoke rightly. If it has the Amen and others disagree, then they should depart from any error on their part and submit to Christ. I have to say that I found your reply to US, quite hard to read.

Blessings

Jock.  :Peace2:

Amen  '' let it be so ''
Rom 11:36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

Strong's G281 - amēn
firm

metaph. faithful

verily, amen

at the beginning of a discourse - surely, truly, of a truth

at the end - so it is, so be it, may it be fulfilled. It was a custom, which passed over from the synagogues to the Christian assemblies, that when he who had read or discoursed, had offered up solemn prayer to God, the others responded Amen, and thus made the substance of what was uttered their own.

The word "amen" is a most remarkable word. It was transliterated directly from the Hebrew into the Greek of the New Testament, then into Latin and into English and many other languages, so that it is practically a universal word. It has been called the best known word in human speech. The word is directly related — in fact, almost identical — to the Hebrew word for "believe" (amam), or faithful. Thus, it came to mean "sure" or "truly", an expression of absolute trust and confidence. — HMM

and to U.S. also ,   when   Christ  comes to you in WORD AND TRUTH AND SPIRIT   
you will know

  For me it was when I read   matt  5 ! and Luke 6

  Knowing how hard it is for the flesh to love your enemies !!!   
its the SPIRTUAL   man who can overcome  evil  with  good loving your enemies

when you actually begin to do  what Jesus asks  of us ,   you know the power of God though Christ is working in you  , not only that but realizing  Jesus     IS doing this very thing for all of us now !!   in our thoughts and prayers    UniversalSceptic  !!  :friendstu:

Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
Luk 6:27 But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,
Luk 6:35 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and you  shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.  

[Seth]

I don't think that Julie has in mind any type of feeling one has to struggle with. As she said, you will FEEL and KNOW. I think she is describing something that happens to a person without them even trying, since it is from God. Not that feelings are an indication of his presence, it is simply an affirmation in our experience of his presence.

And what happens if the person feels and knows, and then goes through a difficult time where their feelings are clouded by any number of factors? What if you can't feel the love, because you had a bad burrito and all you can feel is gassy?

US says "It says he is never leaves us, but I don't feel his love." My point is that it doesn't matter of you don't feel him, he says he will not leave us or forsake us. What does his promise have to do with our feelings? I say nothing. I believe his promise is his promise, and he is not a liar, so even if you are having an emotional struggle, does not mean he has left you.

I think this is the manner in which we are to love God: obey him, feed his sheep, care for his people. You are loving him when you do those things regardless of how you feel. In my opinion, feelings are not stable and not reliable as a way to establish truth. God's word is the best way to know he will never leave us.

[gregoryfl]

I don't think that Julie has in mind any type of feeling one has to struggle with. As she said, you will FEEL and KNOW. I think she is describing something that happens to a person without them even trying, since it is from God. Not that feelings are an indication of his presence, it is simply an affirmation in our experience of his presence.

And what happens if the person feels and knows, and then goes through a difficult time where their feelings are clouded by any number of factors? What if you can't feel the love, because you had a bad burrito and all you can feel is gassy?

US says "It says he is never leaves us, but I don't feel his love." My point is that it doesn't matter of you don't feel him, he says he will not leave us or forsake us. What does his promise have to do with our feelings? I say nothing. I believe his promise is his promise, and he is not a liar, so even if you are having an emotional struggle, does not mean he has left you.

I think this is the manner in which we are to love God: obey him, feed his sheep, care for his people. You are loving him when you do those things regardless of how you feel. In my opinion, feelings are not stable and not reliable as a way to establish truth. God's word is the best way to know he will never leave us.

What you are sharing is true, to me it is not an either/or issue. John echoes your words as well Seth, when he said:

1Jn 3:16  By this we know his love towards us, because he gave up his life for us:. and we also ought to give up our lives for our brethren.
1Jn 3:17  But whoever has worldly possessions, and sees his brother in want, and shuts up his bowels from him, how is the love of Alaha in him?
1Jn 3:18  My children, let us not love one another in words and in tongue, but in acts and in truth.
1Jn 3:19  And by this, we recognize that we are of the truth; and, before he shall come, we make our hearts confident.
1Jn 3:20  But if our heart condemns us, how much greater is Alaha than our heart, and knowing all things?
1Jn 3:21  My beloved, if our heart condemns us not, we have open countenances before Alaha.


In terms of reality, I agree that it does not matter, for it is certainly true regardless of our ever changing feelings. If we go through a difficult time, then I am thankful that we have an inspired set of writings dedicated to that as well, in the Psalms. The struggle was part of the wholeness of what it means to be human. In my culture, we do not separate physical from spiritual, or feelings from knowing, but even in the midst of struggle, of yelling out 'Elohim, where are you?!', that is all part and parcel of a heart that truly loves God, even in the midst of confusion and doubt. The same writer who expressed the famous 'My God, my God, why have you forsake me?' in that process came to write just a few verses later 'For he has not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted, Neither has he hidden his face from him; but when he cried to him, he heard.'

When I read Universalskeptic's struggle, that tells me in no uncertain terms just how much he loves God, even if in the midst of depression and, just as with Dawid, that struggle is a powerful means Father can and does use to bring us to a deeper relationship and awareness of him.

In my opinion, I would encourage US to embrace the struggle, not to deny it, if and when it is there, and let it drive him to passionately seek the One who embraces him in and through it all.

Ronen

[Seth]

The same writer who expressed the famous 'My God, my God, why have you forsake me?' in that process came to write just a few verses later 'For he has not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted, Neither has he hidden his face from him; but when he cried to him, he heard.'

Beautiful...

[rosered]

In terms of reality, I agree that it does not matter, for it is certainly true regardless of our ever changing feelings. If we go through a difficult time, then I am thankful that we have an inspired set of writings dedicated to that as well, in the Psalms. The struggle was part of the wholeness of what it means to be human. In my culture, we do not separate physical from spiritual, or feelings from knowing, but even in the midst of struggle, of yelling out 'Elohim, where are you?!', that is all part and parcel of a heart that truly loves God, even in the midst of confusion and doubt. The same writer who expressed the famous 'My God, my God, why have you forsake me?' in that process came to write just a few verses later 'For he has not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted, Neither has he hidden his face from him; but when he cried to him, he heard.'

When I read Universalskeptic's struggle, that tells me in no uncertain terms just how much he loves God, even if in the midst of depression and, just as with Dawid, that struggle is a powerful means Father can and does use to bring us to a deeper relationship and awareness of him.

In my opinion, I would encourage US to embrace the struggle, not to deny it, if and when it is there, and let it drive him to passionately seek the One who embraces him in and through it all.

Ronen

  Dear Ronen  ,

Thanks    for sharing !!!

  If DAVID   would have been sent   to a doctor of today they would have placed him on antidepressents  ,      the Lord  gave a breakthough   when reading the Psalms !   His ups and downs    you could see that David saw corruption    , as we all  do in this life of the days of our flesh
  Life and death are in the power of the tongue  and we eat those fruits !    that is why we love the fruits of the Spirit  Pro 18:21 Death and life are in the power of the tongue: and they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof.



  I always wondererd when reading    Acts  what these verses meant and had to look up  corruption   and sharing them now again with you all 

I know David was a man after Gods own heart   and yet he sowed to his flesh by doing many things that brought  destruction  to him and his family by the choices he made 

being in the  days of his flesh  ,   he saw  his baby die   with Bathsheba    and  saw  enemies all about him   and saw  his  son rape his daughter Tamer  and   saw one son kill the other one and    he has no strength or power to change any of it !!   yet David was also spirit  and that is what God  had  mercy upon and loved and saves !!   

  the sure mercies of David        , I  just loved what you shared and has to  speak up and share this with you  also  , I was on anti depressants  when going to the doctor and had a hard time getting off them  they made me numb  inside
   But it was  where the Lords Spirit directed me to the Psalms that comforted me into knowing   
what  all of us suffer though  is for Gods glory in the end   , He  saves us though His Son   who never saw corruption    Jesus strength is   our power to overcome the world , greater is He who is in you  than  in the world 
  comparing   this to Daniels  verse   no strength /no power over


  Act 13:36 For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption:


Act 13:37 But he, whom God raised again, saw no corruption.


   Dan 10:8 Therefore I was left alone, and saw this great vision, and there remained no strength in me: for my comeliness was turned in me into corruption, and I retained no strength


Strong's G1312 - diaphthora
corruption, destruction

in the NT that destruction which is effected by the decay of the body after death



from Strong's G1311 - diaphtheirō

to change for the worse, to corrupt

of minds, morals

to destroy, ruin

to consume

of bodily vigour and strengthof the worm or moth that eats provisions, clothing, etc.

to destroy, to kill





Strong's H4889 - mashchiyth
ruin, destruction

[JulieTang84]

First off, contrary to what you have been told. You will FEEL Father when he is present, on very much the same way you can feel the lack of a presence of a loved one when they are absent. You will KNOW the moment Father makes himself known and the moment he leaves or closes the door. These are NOT  emotional feelings that some think all feelings are. Call it a Spiritual inner most feeling, or a peace that is there and then not.

Hello Julie,
I grew up in a Pentacostal/Charasmatic environment, and I saw people struggle so much with fear and doubt based on their feelings. Feelings are great, but they are based on our physical bodies. We feel things because we have nerves and chemical reactions in our brains. If one of those chemical reactions goes awry and we are left with feelings that may have nothing to do with God leaving us, then we are essentially in slavery to the sensations of our flesh if we place that assumption. Universal Sceptic's feelings could have nothing to do with God supposedly distant from him.

What if Universal Sceptic's feelings had to do with neuron reactions, lack of nutrition, depression (which I can say confidently that findings have suggested to be a matter of physical imbalances in the brain) or any other manner of stimuli? You can never know why he had those feelings, so I don't think he should have to struggle and fight with his feelings as being the basis for whether his Father is at his side.

To me that viewpoint can lead to alot of self-condemnation.

Seth, please know that I gave great consideration to all that I wrote, knowing that I might cause some questions. Father knows that I am not here to deceive or make myself appear special, but rather share all that I was told and all that has happened.

I know all about neurological reactions caused by chemical imbalances in the brain. As I have previously shared on this forum, I suffered the deepest, darkest depression imaginable due to severe brain trauma resulting from an accident. I was given drugs that made me like a zombie. I couldn't sleep more than an hour or two at a time, but my dreams were more real than life and I could not tell either apart. I could not even trust myself. I dreamed of suicide, planned elaborate schemes and lived kind of dangerously for a while; pretty much inviting death. This was before any relationship with Father; however, He knew I was broken and that I didn't ask Him to take me.

That He was responsible for bringing me out of depression is a given. He sent an unlikely Angel, who over time pulled me out of the darkness back into the light. Yes, I know feelings of immense joy, heartbreaking sorrow and a loneliness / sadness that threatens rip very being in two. Yet, I am not an emotional wreck. Even through the worst of it all, no one knew but my angel. Thankfully I have been depression free for many years; if I ever find myself becoming depressed, I now know how to change direction.

Seth, you MUST understand that I know Spiritual Emptiness. The gulf between it and the feelings just described are greater than than that of Black and White. I cannot say this any simpler than this and in truth, it was this simple. It was like, Father switched a switch and everything changed. I KNEW HE WAS THERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Every cell in my body knew it. Yes, I felt HIM, BUT it was SO MUCH MORE than a feeling.  :cloud9:

My WHOLE Being changed, my world changed, my love changed but BEST of ALL, my Faith was ratified. Amazing things began to happen almost daily. All of my fear and worry was GONE!!!! Being replaced with a Peaceful Assurance that everything is going to be fine. I was given the most amazing books to read only to DISCOVER that I KNEW everything they taught. I didn't even know I knew until I read the words!!!!!  :Chinscratch:

I am talking about a Knowledge that is as much as part of one as ones DNA. Having nothing to do with the mind or understanding. My every prayer had been answered 10 fold!!! It was during this time Father told me: Don't Forget Love.

Not long after, Father turned the light switch off.  :sigh: I have no idea why, I might have become too cocky or perhaps I was too slow. Father just gave me a proverbial kick in the pants. Oh this was a different kind of empty, this time I was 100% neutral: neither happy or sad, pleased or displeased, interested or disinterested, loved or unloved. SCARY!!!!!!!!!

I wont bore you with the details. I finally realized that Father had given me a blank canvas. I could figuratively paint myself and my life in as bright and cheerful, loving colors I chose and I did. My Spiritual World is delightful and joyful and you know what???? Having created it, Father came back!!!!!!

Someone mentioned this week that they reasoned that the Spirit and the Physical must need to merge. I agree!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  My physical world is only as bright and cheerful (Arctic freeze outside and I LOVE IT!!!) as my Spiritual. This, I believe is the Lesson I was to learn. Father certainly hasn't told me in as many words. I converse with Father like I am a little girl walking through wonderland, our relationship is that magical. Yet He is teaching me to Shine (grow in Spirit) on my own. To be a beacon of Light to all lost souls.

I really do appreciate your loving post, but the Peace, Love and Joy that transcends every aspect of my life can be "felt" yet it is more than a feeling. It is who I am. It's Julie.   :girlheart:

Oh...Father cannot leave me or anyone, but He can make Himself known and he can turn Himself Off. Not sure how, but He does   :dsunny:

With ALL my Love, Julie  :HeartThrob:

[JulieTang84]

I don't think that Julie has in mind any type of feeling one has to struggle with. As she said, you will FEEL and KNOW. I think she is describing something that happens to a person without them even trying, since it is from God. Not that feelings are an indication of his presence, it is simply an affirmation in our experience of his presence.

:HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:  Thanks GFL, you have it perfect. Jesus said we must be born again. I was always told that it was something "I could choose" to do, which always sounded so "plastic" to me. How could I choose to be "born again" when Father hadn't even revealed himself to me.


Love Julie  :HeartThrob:

[Seth]

Seth, you MUST understand that I know Spiritual Emptiness. The gulf between it and the feelings just described are greater than than that of Black and White. I cannot say this any simpler than this and in truth, it was this simple. It was like, Father switched a switch and everything changed. I KNEW HE WAS THERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Every cell in my body knew it. Yes, I felt HIM, BUT it was SO MUCH MORE than a feeling. 

My WHOLE Being changed, my world changed, my love changed but BEST of ALL, my Faith was ratified. Amazing things began to happen almost daily. All of my fear and worry was GONE!!!! Being replaced with a Peaceful Assurance that everything is going to be fine. I was given the most amazing books to read only to DISCOVER that I KNEW everything they taught. I didn't even know I knew until I read the words!!!!!  

Julie, I am not here to discount your personal experiences. However, I don't believe anyone can say that everyone will have the same experience. I have had emotional experiences of my own, and amazing things which seemed to confirm God's works. But they may not have been the same as yours.

Nobody can guarantee that US will have the same experience you will in order to confirm their knowledge. Whatever US feels, he can still stand on the Word which promises that Jesus will not leave him. You are saying that US will know. I am saying he can already know by seeing the promise and having faith on it. He doesn't have to wait for an experience for him to know that Jesus is with him.

Paul had an experience on the way to Damascus. He was knocked off his horse and blinded for three days, and then he could see when something like scales fell from his eyes. I never had that happen to me. I was never physically blinded or saw a white light. But that experience was for Paul. It doesn't have to be MY experience. and my experience doesn't have to be yours, and yours doesn't have to be Universal Sceptic's experience.

Universal Sceptic can know NOW that Jesus is with him by opening his Bible and seeing the words and standing on them by faith. His feelings after that, may change over time, and he may have a strong emotional spiritual experience, but he doesn't have to wait for that to know Christ is with him.

[JulieTang84]

I don't think that Julie has in mind any type of feeling one has to struggle with. As she said, you will FEEL and KNOW. I think she is describing something that happens to a person without them even trying, since it is from God. Not that feelings are an indication of his presence, it is simply an affirmation in our experience of his presence.

And what happens if the person feels and knows, and then goes through a difficult time where their feelings are clouded by any number of factors? What if you can't feel the love, because you had a bad burrito and all you can feel is gassy?

US says "It says he is never leaves us, but I don't feel his love." My point is that it doesn't matter of you don't feel him, he says he will not leave us or forsake us. What does his promise have to do with our feelings? I say nothing. I believe his promise is his promise, and he is not a liar, so even if you are having an emotional struggle, does not mean he has left you.

I think this is the manner in which we are to love God: obey him, feed his sheep, care for his people. You are loving him when you do those things regardless of how you feel. In my opinion, feelings are not stable and not reliable as a way to establish truth. God's word is the best way to know he will never leave us.

Perhaps there is a better word than "feelings". A Blind man knows that he cannot see; a man blind man must SURELY know he is so. I knew. I absolutely KNEW, just as I KNEW the instant Father revealed himself to me. EVERYTHING CHANGED, I BECAME a NEW Person. I felt "It" but I also "Became" it.


I totally understand where you are coming from when you say this Seth: "In my opinion, feelings are not stable and not reliable as a way to establish truth. God's word is the best."


However, I would be lying to Father if I failed to say this: I am here for just ONE PURPOSE and that is too LOVE UNCONDITIONALLY as many people as I can. The More I LOVE the More Father allows me to Love, but I MUST give my Love AWAY first. This is from whence all the Spiritual Fruits grow, through the light of pure unconditional Love. Not my LOVE, BUT  :HeartThrob: Father's  :HeartThrob:


I love reading the Bible, but I do not need it to further my Love for Father and His Christ. Spiritual Knowledge becomes part of one. Whilst ever I am open to Fathers Love, HIS LOVE will flow through me  to whom ever needs it most. Jesus taught us HOW TO LIVE, that was his ministry.


I truly hope you can understand that I am NOT talking about emotions or assumptions or anything other than SPIRIT.


Love Julie  :HeartThrob:

[JulieTang84]

Seth, you MUST understand that I know Spiritual Emptiness. The gulf between it and the feelings just described are greater than than that of Black and White. I cannot say this any simpler than this and in truth, it was this simple. It was like, Father switched a switch and everything changed. I KNEW HE WAS THERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Every cell in my body knew it. Yes, I felt HIM, BUT it was SO MUCH MORE than a feeling. 

My WHOLE Being changed, my world changed, my love changed but BEST of ALL, my Faith was ratified. Amazing things began to happen almost daily. All of my fear and worry was GONE!!!! Being replaced with a Peaceful Assurance that everything is going to be fine. I was given the most amazing books to read only to DISCOVER that I KNEW everything they taught. I didn't even know I knew until I read the words!!!!!   

Julie, I am not here to discount your personal experiences. However, I don't believe anyone can say that everyone will have the same experience. I have had emotional experiences of my own, and amazing things which seemed to confirm God's works. But they may not have been the same as yours.

Nobody can guarantee that US will have the same experience you will in order to confirm their knowledge. Whatever US feels, he can still stand on the Word which promises that Jesus will not leave him. You are saying that US will know. I am saying he can already know by seeing the promise and having faith on it. He doesn't have to wait for an experience for him to know that Jesus is with him.

Seth, I in no way implied that anyone will have the SAME experience as I. Just that HE WOULD KNOW.


In case you missed what I wrote somewhere. Having Faith and an unshakable belief, is not a bad thing. I had that for over 20 yrs before I was given the slightest inkling Father and Jesus was there.


Love Julie  :HeartThrob:

[Seth]

Perhaps there is a better word than "feelings".

Ok, how about "experiences?" Again, I am not intending to discount your experience. Obvisouly, Paul had an experience too. But it was different from yours. And yours is different from mine.

What I get from the OP is that US is wondering if Jesus is with him, why doesn't he feel that? What I am saying is that Jesus made a promise, and it doesn't matter what he feels, the promise is valid. I am not saying that US will not someday have a grand experience, but he doesn't have to suffer doubt or question Christ's presence because that hasn't happened for him yet.

The reason I am stressing this point has to do with what I have seen in churches. Peeople pretending to be happy, because sadness means God has left you, and if God has left you, then obviously something is wrong with you or God or maybe the Bible isn't truthful....

It can lead to what I call Christian superstition. If Universal Sceptic is sad, or struggling with his emotion, Jesus will still be there. God already gave US his love by sending his Son to die for his sin. He is already a partaker of God's love for him.

Seth, I in no way implied that anyone will have the SAME experience as I. Just that HE WOULD KNOW.

And, Julie, what I am saying is that he can know NOW. He doesn't have to wait to know. He doesn't have to live in a state of suspended animation until something happens....

[JulieTang84]

Hi Julie

No offence but the posts that US received earlier from Seth and from myself had the Amen from other witnesses. The sanctity of the "Amen" is paramount and lets us know, by God, that we spoke rightly. If it has the Amen and others disagree, then they should depart from any error on their part and submit to Christ. I have to say that I found your reply to US, quite hard to read.

Blessings

Jock.  :Peace2:

So sorry to hear that Jock. Do you believe I think you spoke wrongly?


Love Julie  :girlheart: