The Rapture of the church

[rosered]

Words mean something and I know when you wrote, " ..this is when Jesus become sin for us ..." You meant Jesus became a sin-offering, He did not become sin, ever. I mean no offence, but it jumped out at me.

No offence taken Micah , :thumbsup:
  its all a matter of how we percieve  , you are right he    was the sin offering  , the Lamb of God without spot 

  but He gave his soul   as the sin offering   that we might have life 

  I  have some written  scriptures that has to be reconciled to
 
when He cried out  and asked  Father why have you forsaken me  , 
that God could not look upon sin , proving   that     He did become sin for us

  this is just mine own  beliefs   and no one has to   believe me

  and this

2Cr 5:21 For he hath made him [to be] sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

  and there is more
  but pressed for time 
my son is visiting from   the Air force from Alaska and will not be and have not  been on here because of the wonderful visit from him

  But I  was blessed to read this post today and felt it move  within and  loved it !!quickining  a part  that has to witness to it 
thanks to all whom contributed    to this  thread   
 
Heard that when the Spirit moves the flesh becomes silent   
, when the flesh moves the Spirit becomes silent   
I kind of believe that    ,  seems we are in one state of being or the other   at all times
in our realms of thoughts  :dsunny:

[dajomaco]

IMO
Sin is separation from God
Jesus walked this earth knowing that he was not separate from God.
I believed he carried in his mind of flesh that he could be separated from God.
A thought that can only be had in the mind of the flesh.
God is all knowing .
The only way you can be forsaken by God ( who does not really forsake).
The mind of the flesh can convince us we are forsaken.
Jesus first fruits rises from the dead.
With faith now we can over come the flesh mind.
No matter how many joints you smoke during communion.
God will never forsake you or your neighbor.

A little leaven goes a long way.
I have to go now and have a shower I am taking a message to some one,
and they won't believe the message unless the messenger is clean.
It helps to concentrate completely on keeping clean.

[micah7:9]

IMO
Sin is separation from God
Jesus walked this earth knowing that he was not separate from God.
I believed he carried in his mind of flesh that he could be separated from God.
A thought that can only be had in the mind of the flesh.
God is all knowing .
The only way you can be forsaken by God ( who does not really forsake).
The mind of the flesh can convince us we are forsaken.
Jesus first fruits rises from the dead.
With faith now we can over come the flesh mind.
No matter how many joints you smoke during communion.
God will never forsake you or your neighbor.

A little leaven goes a long way.
I have to go now and have a shower I am taking a message to some one,
and they won't believe the message unless the messenger is clean.
It helps to concentrate completely on keeping clean.

:dsunny:

[jabcat]

Words mean something and I know when you wrote, " ..this is when Jesus become sin for us ..." You meant Jesus became a sin-offering, He did not become sin, ever. I mean no offence, but it jumped out at me.

No offence taken Micah , :thumbsup:
  its all a matter of how we percieve  , you are right he    was the sin offering  , the Lamb of God without spot 

  but He gave his soul   as the sin offering   that we might have life 

  I  have some written  scriptures that has to be reconciled to
 
when He cried out  and asked  Father why have you forsaken me  , 
that God could not look upon sin , proving   that     He did become sin for us

  this is just mine own  beliefs   and no one has to   believe me

  and this

2Cr 5:21 For he hath made him [to be] sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

  and there is more
  but pressed for time 
my son is visiting from   the Air force from Alaska and will not be and have not  been on here because of the wonderful visit from him

  But I  was blessed to read this post today and felt it move  within and  loved it !!quickining  a part  that has to witness to it 
thanks to all whom contributed    to this  thread   
 
Heard that when the Spirit moves the flesh becomes silent   
, when the flesh moves the Spirit becomes silent   
I kind of believe that    ,  seems we are in one state of being or the other   at all times
in our realms of thoughts  :dsunny:

2 Cor. 5:21   For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

[jabcat]

Grace, the Sacrifice of the Lamb for all time.  He became our sin, so we could receive His righteousness.  Grace, unmerited favor.  His works not ours.

[lastpost]

I Believe its  important to think spiritual and not carnal when   reading the Word of God
   the literal  is the written   word  that all   are given
the Spoken word has life in  them  , by the breath of God , this is  the Holy Spirit to me

Thank you. The Spirit surveys all things and can place a finger on those things of the mind of man as well as those of the Mind of God

[micah7:9]

Grace, the Sacrifice of the Lamb for all time.  He became our sin, so we could receive His righteousness.  Grace, unmerited favor.  His works not ours.

Jesus Christ DID NOT BECOME SIN period. And if you believe that, just tell me why the Father would ever request or except "SIN" as an offering?
2 Corinthians 5:21 CLV 21 For the One not knowing sin, He makes to be a sin offering for our sakes that we may be becoming God's righteousness in Him."
2 Corinthians 5:21 KJV 21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

I just get a little upset when people are taught and worse accept a teaching that Jesus Christ became sin. :sigh:

[jabcat]

Grace, the Sacrifice of the Lamb for all time.  He became our sin, so we could receive His righteousness.  Grace, unmerited favor.  His works not ours.

Jesus Christ DID NOT BECOME SIN period. And if you believe that, just tell me why the Father would ever request or except "SIN" as an offering?
2 Corinthians 5:21 CLV 21 For the One not knowing sin, He makes to be a sin offering for our sakes that we may be becoming God's righteousness in Him."
2 Corinthians 5:21 KJV 21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

I just get a little upset when people are taught and worse accept a teaching that Jesus Christ became sin. :sigh:

You can get upset, but to declare something as "period", may be a bit presumptuous - and perhaps incorrect - given you seem to be ignoring the scripture quoted just above.  But remember, that's my understanding and belief - not period".   Why aren't you addressing the scripture quoted?  If you have a good explanation for it, I'll listen.  Is there something you know about it that isn't evident?  If so, share it, rather than spouting off.

[micah7:9]

Grace, the Sacrifice of the Lamb for all time.  He became our sin, so we could receive His righteousness.  Grace, unmerited favor.  His works not ours.

Jesus Christ DID NOT BECOME SIN period. And if you believe that, just tell me why the Father would ever request or except "SIN" as an offering?
2 Corinthians 5:21 CLV 21 For the One not knowing sin, He makes to be a sin offering for our sakes that we may be becoming God's righteousness in Him."
2 Corinthians 5:21 KJV 21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

I just get a little upset when people are taught and worse accept a teaching that Jesus Christ became sin. :sigh:

You can get upset, but to declare something as "period", may be a bit presumptuous - and perhaps incorrect - given you seem to be ignoring the scripture quoted just above.  But remember, that's my understanding and belief - not period".   Why aren't you addressing the scripture quoted?  If you have a good explanation for it, I'll listen.  Is there something you know about it that isn't evident?  If so, share it, rather than spouting off.

I will just spout, if you think and believe that Jesus Christ the SINLESS Lamb and Son of God had any sin what so ever, even the thought that Jesus Christ could become sin, to me is not sound doctrine. 
And I did address the scripture 2 Corinthians 5:21 CLV 21 For the One not knowing sin, He makes to be a sin offering for our sakes that we may be becoming God's righteousness in Him." Now should you accept the KJV as your belief fine, but the Savior that is saving this soul, the One who died on the cross did not have sin nor did He become sin.

Lev 4:3  If the priest that is anointed do sin according to the sin of the people; then let him bring for his sin, which he hath sinned, a young bullock without blemish unto the LORD for a sin offering.

The priest did not bring sin to offer as 2 Corinthians 5:21 KJV 21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Your post sounded familiar.

[jabcat]

Every translation I've checked so far says either made sin for us, or sin on our behalf other than the CLV and one other.

You may be right, I'm willing to look at it further if it can be discussed in a brotherly manner.

[dajomaco]

Lev 4:3  If the priest that is anointed do sin according to the sin of the people; then let him bring for his sin, which he hath sinned, a young bullock without blemish unto the LORD for a sin offering.


From now on, then, we do not know[f] anyone in a purely human way.[g] Even if we have known[h] Christ in a purely human way, yet now we no longer know[j] Him in this way. 17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away, and look, new things[k] have come. 18 Everything is from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19 That is, in Christ, God was reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed the message of reconciliation to us. 20 Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, certain that God is appealing through us. We plead on Christ's behalf, "Be reconciled to God." 21 He made the One who did not know sin to be sin[l] for us, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
When we bring together these two different passages I can see
sort of what Micha is hinting at. (if we are priests)

Is grumpy a slang word?

[micah7:9]

Lev 4:20  And he shall do6213 with the bullock6499 as834 he did6213 with the bullock6499 for a  sin offering,2403 so3651 shall he do6213 with this: and the priest3548 shall make an atonement3722 for5921 them, and it shall be forgiven5545 them.

You can see the Hebrew word # 2403 you've got two words "sin offerings" for the one word.  If you look up that #2403 it will give you the definition of sin, not the definition of offering.  How come they translate it sin offering?  Because all Hebrews knew that that's what it meant. 
If Hebrews don't understand their own language, how are we going to translate anything?  By whose authority are we going to translate Hebrew Scripture if the Hebrews don't understand their own language?  Can we see how they did it?  What justification is there for saying Christ is made sin, period?  He was made a 'sin offering' and the Scripture proves it, fifty-four times in the book of Leviticus  alone.

Note: Grumpy is not a slang word, it is the name of one of the dwarfs! Be kind :LH:

[jabcat]

Is grumpy a slang word?

Nah, I don't think so.  But it describes me pretty well today.  Multiple stressful things going on recently, dealing with conflicts from various angles.  Forgive me.

[jabcat]

ok, good info..definitely worth looking at further..thanks

[micah7:9]

2 Cor.5:21 is a tough one, but for me when I could not get my mind/heart around that Christ became sin because it went against everything I have read that Jesus KNEW NO SIN, so how could He BECOME sin?
But when looked into look at  YLT Gen 4:7  Is there not, if thou dost well, acceptance? and if thou dost not well, at the opening a sin-offering is crouching, and unto thee its desire, and thou rulest over it.'

[micah7:9]

ok, good info..definitely worth looking at further..thanks

:dsunny:

[eaglesway]

2 Cor.5:21 is a tough one, but for me when I could not get my mind/heart around that Christ became sin because it went against everything I have read that Jesus KNEW NO SIN, so how could He BECOME sin?
But when looked into look at  YLT Gen 4:7  Is there not, if thou dost well, acceptance? and if thou dost not well, at the opening a sin-offering is crouching, and unto thee its desire, and thou rulest over it.'

! Cor 5:21 is explained, for me, by the concept of the scapegaot. The sin of the people was laid every year bythe high preist upon the scapegoat. Jesus never sinned. He took upon himself our sins and was executed for them, thus "sin in the flesh" was judged in the body of Jesus Christ once andd for all.

[WhiteWings]

Consider this.
Jesus 'raptures' His bride. A bride is a woman. Eve was taken out of Adam (rib).
The bride is part of the church.

Another thing that refers to a bride is an ancient Jewish wedding ritual.
The groom was carried on wooden platform to his bride's house.
His bride met him and was pulled up the platform. The groom did not leave the platform. His feet didn't touch the ground.