the mouth of two witnesses or of three witnesses

[micah7:9]

I think about 2006, I discussing about Judas and Jesus, that final evening in the garden, this was on a different site. When one of folks said that the OT states that there needs be two or three witnesses to bring a charge against another person. And he gave these two verses:

Deu 17:6  By the mouth of two witnesses or of three witnesses is he who is dead put to death; he is not put to death by the mouth of one witness;
Deu 19:15  `One witness doth not rise against a man for any iniquity, and for any sin, in any sin which he sinneth; by the mouth of two witnesses, or by the mouth of three witnesses, is a thing established.

Then the person asked who was the other witness? Well, that set me back, seeing that person never came back to that thread, so I went to digging and searching for that second witness. I believe it was revealed to me who it was.
Now, I found that to be a difficult task, so Im not going to say right now who I believe it is, I just would like to know if it is who I believe it is or not, from this forum? I aint trying to be no wise guy.

[WhiteWings]

Witnesses against Jesus? The priests

[micah7:9]

Thats where I started :bigGrin:

[Molly]

The priests can't be witnesses.  They are the judges.

There are no witnesses against Jesus, only false witnesses.

He was without sin.


Inside, the leading priests and the entire high council were trying to find witnesses who would lie about Jesus, so they could put him to death. [Mat 26:59]

[micah7:9]

The priests can't be witnesses.  They are the judges.

There are no witnesses against Jesus, only false witnesses.

He was without sin.


Inside, the leading priests and the entire high council were trying to find witnesses who would lie about Jesus, so they could put him to death. [Mat 26:59]

That is true but the Law was still in affect and it had to be followed
Deu 17:6  By the mouth of two witnesses or of three witnesses

[Molly]

The priests can't be witnesses.  They are the judges.

There are no witnesses against Jesus, only false witnesses.

He was without sin.


Inside, the leading priests and the entire high council were trying to find witnesses who would lie about Jesus, so they could put him to death. [Mat 26:59]

That is true but the Law was still in affect and it had to be followed
Deu 17:6  By the mouth of two witnesses or of three witnesses

They broke every law in the book, starting with the midnight trial.  Who conducts a trial at midnight?  Witches?  Satanists?

But why don't you tell us the answer. :winkgrin:

[thinktank]

Could it be the man with the linen cloth?

[WhiteWings]

The priests can't be witnesses.  They are the judges.

There are no witnesses against Jesus, only false witnesses.

He was without sin.


Inside, the leading priests and the entire high council were trying to find witnesses who would lie about Jesus, so they could put him to death. [Mat 26:59]

That is true but the Law was still in affect and it had to be followed
Deu 17:6  By the mouth of two witnesses or of three witnesses

They broke every law in the book, starting with the midnight trial.  Who conducts a trial at midnight?  Witches?  Satanists?

But why don't you tell us the answer. :winkgrin:

FYI many trials in the US are during night. :winkgrin:

[Molly]

The priests can't be witnesses.  They are the judges.

There are no witnesses against Jesus, only false witnesses.

He was without sin.


Inside, the leading priests and the entire high council were trying to find witnesses who would lie about Jesus, so they could put him to death. [Mat 26:59]

That is true but the Law was still in affect and it had to be followed
Deu 17:6  By the mouth of two witnesses or of three witnesses

They broke every law in the book, starting with the midnight trial.  Who conducts a trial at midnight?  Witches?  Satanists?

But why don't you tell us the answer. :winkgrin:

FYI many trials in the US are during night. :winkgrin:

Like what?  Civil servants don't even work until 5 o'clock. :mblush:

[WhiteWings]

The priests can't be witnesses.  They are the judges.

Why can't a judge be a witness? A judge does listen to people in court you know.

Matt 26 [ACV]
62 And the high priest having stood up, he said to him, Answer thou nothing? What do these testify against thee?
63 But Jesus was silent. And having responded, the high priest said to him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us if thou are the Christ, the Son of God.
64 Jesus says to him, Thou have said. Nevertheless I say to you, Henceforth ye will see the Son of man sitting at the right hand of Power, and coming in the clouds of the sky.
65 Then the high priest tore his garments, saying, He has blasphemed. What further need have we of witnesses? Behold, now ye heard his blasphemy.
66 What does it seem to you? Having answered, they said, He is deserving of death.

[micah7:9]

The priests can't be witnesses.  They are the judges.

There are no witnesses against Jesus, only false witnesses.

He was without sin.


Inside, the leading priests and the entire high council were trying to find witnesses who would lie about Jesus, so they could put him to death. [Mat 26:59]

That is true but the Law was still in affect and it had to be followed
Deu 17:6  By the mouth of two witnesses or of three witnesses

They broke every law in the book, starting with the midnight trial.  Who conducts a trial at midnight?  Witches?  Satanists?

But why don't you tell us the answer. :winkgrin:

Okay Molly I will, now whether the answer is clear is up to the believe.

Joh 18:4  Jesus, therefore, knowing all things that are coming upon him, having gone forth, said to them, `Whom do ye seek?'
Joh 18:5  they answered him, `Jesus the Nazarene;' Jesus saith to them, `I am he ;' --and Judas who delivered him up was standing with them; --

[Molly]

The priests can't be witnesses.  They are the judges.

There are no witnesses against Jesus, only false witnesses.

He was without sin.


Inside, the leading priests and the entire high council were trying to find witnesses who would lie about Jesus, so they could put him to death. [Mat 26:59]

That is true but the Law was still in affect and it had to be followed
Deu 17:6  By the mouth of two witnesses or of three witnesses

They broke every law in the book, starting with the midnight trial.  Who conducts a trial at midnight?  Witches?  Satanists?

But why don't you tell us the answer. :winkgrin:

Okay Molly I will, now whether the answer is clear is up to the believe.

Joh 18:4  Jesus, therefore, knowing all things that are coming upon him, having gone forth, said to them, `Whom do ye seek?'
Joh 18:5  they answered him, `Jesus the Nazarene;' Jesus saith to them, `I am he ;' --and Judas who delivered him up was standing with them; --

That's a good one Micah.  He witnessed against himself--twice, because the first time he identified himself they ended up prostrate on the ground, so he had to let them catch their breath and witness against himself again.

[micah7:9]

Joh 18:4  Jesus, therefore, knowing all things that are coming upon him, having gone forth, said to them, `Whom do ye seek?'
Joh 18:5  they answered him, `Jesus the Nazarene;' Jesus saith to them, `I am he ;' --and Judas who delivered him up was standing with them; --

Jesus saith to them, `I am First mouth witness

Judas who delivered him Second mouth witness

Mar 14:45  And as soon as he was come, he goeth straightway to him, and saith, Master, master; and kissed him.

[Beloved Servant]

Joh 18:4  Jesus, therefore, knowing all things that are coming upon him, having gone forth, said to them, `Whom do ye seek?'
Joh 18:5  they answered him, `Jesus the Nazarene;' Jesus saith to them, `I am he ;' --and Judas who delivered him up was standing with them; --

Jesus saith to them, `I am First mouth witness

Judas who delivered him Second mouth witness

Mar 14:45  And as soon as he was come, he goeth straightway to him, and saith, Master, master; and kissed him.

That's brilliant, Micah!
And I pray an eye-opener for many.

[micah7:9]

Joh 18:4  Jesus, therefore, knowing all things that are coming upon him, having gone forth, said to them, `Whom do ye seek?'
Joh 18:5  they answered him, `Jesus the Nazarene;' Jesus saith to them, `I am he ;' --and Judas who delivered him up was standing with them; --

Jesus saith to them, `I am First mouth witness

Judas who delivered him Second mouth witness

Mar 14:45  And as soon as he was come, he goeth straightway to him, and saith, Master, master; and kissed him.

Thankyou  Beloved and  as you Know to God be the Glory! :bigGrin:  :dsunny:


That's brilliant, Micah!
And I pray an eye-opener for many.

[WhiteWings]

Joh 18:4  Jesus, therefore, knowing all things that are coming upon him, having gone forth, said to them, `Whom do ye seek?'
Joh 18:5  they answered him, `Jesus the Nazarene;' Jesus saith to them, `I am he ;' --and Judas who delivered him up was standing with them; --

There are 693 "I am" verses in the Bible. They certainly aren't all about declaring I'm God.
The priests couldn't even find false witnesses but many of the priests soldiers have heared that so called blasphemey.

(http://img814.imageshack.us/img814/9743/iamr.gif)
Large image.

[micah7:9]

So what are you saying? :sigh:

[WhiteWings]

I'm saying Jesus wasn't claiming He is God.

"The Jesus I am" just means "I am Jesus"

Who are you looking for? Jesus the Nazarene. I am Jesus.

The name of God isn't Jesus. The name of God is Jehova, Yaweh, YHWH. Depending the translation you prefer.

[micah7:9]

Are we talking about the two witnesses? I am boggeled in my mind. :sigh:

[WhiteWings]

The priests can't be witnesses.  They are the judges.

There are no witnesses against Jesus, only false witnesses.

He was without sin.


Inside, the leading priests and the entire high council were trying to find witnesses who would lie about Jesus, so they could put him to death. [Mat 26:59]

That is true but the Law was still in affect and it had to be followed
Deu 17:6  By the mouth of two witnesses or of three witnesses

They broke every law in the book, starting with the midnight trial.  Who conducts a trial at midnight?  Witches?  Satanists?

But why don't you tell us the answer. :winkgrin:

FYI many trials in the US are during night. :winkgrin:

Like what?  Civil servants don't even work until 5 o'clock. :mblush:

That's midnight here  :laughing7:

[WhiteWings]

Are we talking about the two witnesses? I am boggeled in my mind. :sigh:

I hope so  :winkgrin:

The way you bolded certain words in reply #12 (to me) it seem you implied that Jesus witnessed against Himself by directly stating the famous (and often abused imo) "I AM". Thereby stating He's God and condeming Himself. Afterall that was the (false) charge of the priests.
If you didn't imply that then ignore. If you did imply that then I disagree.


BTW comparing that verse with the Greek I must conclude most Bibles did a sloppy translation. I smell a doctrinal rat  :winkgrin:

[micah7:9]

Now whether you can believe it or not, Jesus identified Himself by saying this;

Luk 22:48  But Jesus said unto him, Judas, betrayest thou the Son of man with a kiss?

Or Joh 18:5  they answered him, `Jesus the Nazarene;' Jesus saith to them, `I am he ;' --and Judas who delivered him up was standing with them; --

Now Im not going to debate the "I AM" issue with or without a "he" or if in the Greek it is

I-Shall-Come-to-Be  Jesus identified himself as the One they sought.
If not then who is the other witness?

[WhiteWings]

Now whether you can believe it or not, Jesus identified Himself by saying this;

Isn't the topic about witnesses? Being a witness is something different that indentifying yourself. If you mean He indentified Himself as God then disagree. It simply isn't in that verse. If it is explain me where exactly.

Luk 22:48  But Jesus said unto him, Judas, betrayest thou the Son of man with a kiss?

Or Joh 18:5  they answered him, `Jesus the Nazarene;' Jesus saith to them, `I am he ;' --and Judas who delivered him up was standing with them; --

Now Im not going to debate the "I AM" issue with or without a "he" or if in the Greek it is

That's fine with me as long as you aren't using the verse as proof Jesus gave the priests any ground for accusing Him of blasphemy.

I-Shall-Come-to-Be  Jesus identified himself as the One they sought.
If not then who is the other witness?

They simply asked "Are you Jesus?"
Jesus answered "I'm Jesus."

So yes, He indentified Himself as Jesus.
No, that wasn't witnessing against Himself.

Micah look at it this way. You are accused of murder. You are in the park feeding the ducks. Two police officer come to you and ask "Are you Micah?"
You answer "Yes I'm Micah."
You did indentify yourself. But you didn't admit the murder you were accused of.

[Molly]

Believe what you want, ww, but I find the reaction of the soldiers completely convincing of what they perceived.  These are Roman soldiers.  They don't back away and fall to the ground at a whim.


International Standard Version (©2008)
When Jesus told them, "I AM," they backed away and fell to the ground,


Clarke's Commentary on the Bible

They went backward, and fell to the ground - None of the other evangelists mentions this very important circumstance. Our Lord chose to give them this proof of his infinite power, that they might know that their power could not prevail against him if he chose to exert his might, seeing that the very breath of his mouth confounded, drove back, and struck them down to the earth. Thus by the blast of God they might have perished, and by the breath of his nostrils they might have been consumed: Job 4:9.

[WhiteWings]

Believe what you want, ww,

No worries about that. I just make up my mind based on text not on doctrine  :winkgrin:

Why would Roman soldiers back away if they don't even know what "I AM" means?

Anyway, that's all besides the topic. It about what Jesus did or did not say.