The chicken or the egg?

[micah7:9]

I pray that I am stayed and adamant in what the Lord and the brethern have enlightened to me is a Truth. What I have been given to know, and I am sure you all reason the same as to your knowledge, that you believe strong and stayed as well.
.

Heb 5:11  concerning whom we have much discourse and of hard explanation to say, since ye have become dull of hearing,
Heb 5:12  for even owing to be teachers, because of the time, again ye have need that one teach you what are the elements of the beginning of the oracles of God, and ye have become having need of milk, and not of strong food,
Heb 6:1  Wherefore, having left the word of the beginning of the Christ, unto the perfection we may advance, not again a foundation laying of reformation from dead works, and of faith on God,
Heb 6:2  of the teaching of baptisms, of laying on also of hands, of rising again also of the dead, and of judgment age-during,
Heb 6:3  and this we will do, if God may permit,

Heb 5:11  concerning whom we have much discourse and of hard explanation to say, since ye have become dull of hearing,
Heb 5:12  for even owing to be teachers, because of the time, again ye have need that one teach you what are the elements of the beginning of the oracles of God, and ye have become having need of milk, and not of strong food,
Heb 6:1  Wherefore, having left the word of the beginning of the Christ, unto the perfection we may advance, not again a foundation laying of reformation from dead works, and of faith on God,
Heb 6:2  of the teaching of baptisms, of laying on also of hands, of rising again also of the dead, and of judgment age-during,
Heb 6:3  and this we will do, if God may permit,

And I will have to say on many things, a mystery still surrounds me. This, what I ask is one of those we have debated and discussed this before....
I am given to see some of it but remain surrounded by questions. God is Spirit John 4:24
Col 1:17 and He is before all, and all has its cohesion in Him."
It would be ignorant for me to say that all things did not have beginning in God who is Spirit, I believe this adamantly.
I treasure this verse Psa 90:3  Thou turnest man unto a bruised thing, And sayest, Turn back, ye sons of men.

This one also, Ecc 1:6 Going to the south and turning around to the north, Around and around the wind is going, Yet on its courses the wind returns."
Ecc 1:7 All the watercourses are flowing to the sea, Yet there is no filling of the sea; To the place from which the watercourses are flowing, There they return to go forth again."

These verses and many more make me reason that all returns to where it came from and when that reasoning man also must have been spirit at the beginning and to the spirit he will return. I like it, I want to believe it. Men of God who I have read and recieved their words to be a truth, Eby, Prinzing, Roach but now this year within the last 6 months, I question this. Why?
How do I descern, understand and put into this equation the words of Paul    1Co 15:45  Thus, also, it is written—The first man, Adam, became, a living soul, the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.
1Co 15:46  Howbeit, not first, is the body of the spirit, but that, of the soul,—afterwards, that of the spirit.

How is it that Paul teaches that man was first in the natural and then the spirit "The first man, Adam, became, a living soul, the last Adam, a life-giving spirit."?
Against the stand that that all will return to spirit where they were first?

2Ti 3:16  every Writing is God-breathed, and profitable for teaching, for conviction, for setting aright, for instruction that is in righteousness,
2Ti 3:17  that the man of God may be fitted--for every good work having been completed.

:HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

[redhotmagma]

it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.

This may be the key to it.  If we were lowered, maybe we didn't have a body previously. " Sacrifice and offerings I did not desire, but a body you prepared for me."

[Nathan]

One thing that pops out to me with the line of questioning is that IN THIS WORLD natural takes precedence over spiritual.  The first Adam BECAME a living soul . . .what was he before he "became" something else?  The principles of the kingdom will ALWAYS be backwards to natural reasoning.  In this realm, flesh comes first and then spirit.

I think the reason you struggle is because you are seeing different things in different dimensions, thinking that it's all pertaining to "one" dimension.  To see that rivers are formed from water's accumulating in the air, the rivers pour into oceans and the oceans never increase in depth, but instead, the water evaporates back into the invisible air again . . ."that" is really how we came to be as well, and you can see that . . .it's the "big" picture.

But then when you pull up the passage of Paul, you've left the big picture, and now are looking at a more specific perspective.  It doesn't make it any less true, it's merely speaking on a different level of understanding.  Paul's not trying to explain where man originated . . .keep it in the context. 

[Molly]

It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.

:thumbsup:   What is sown?

The first Adam BECAME a living soul . . .what was he before he "became" something else?

:thumbsup:     Good question.

[CHB]

Micah, just my  :2c: but just because Eby, Prinzing, Roach, say something doesn't make it so. I have found that there are at least one flaw in the teachings of everyone. I don't believe there is one person who God gave the whole truth to. If you find that man I would like to meet him. Only God and Jesus Christ knows ALL things. 

How is it that Paul teaches that man was first in the natural and then the spirit "The first man, Adam, became, a living soul, the last Adam, a life-giving spirit."?
Against the stand that that all will return to spirit where they were first?

I have wondered about this myself and my personal feelings are that, sure we came from God and will return to God but the question is, what were we when we came from God? If God breathed into Adam and he BECAME a living soul, doesn't that mean that Adam wasn't a living soul before God breathed into him? You might could say we were the breath of God, right? (Gen. 2:7) And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and BREATHED into his nostrils the BREATH OF LIFE; and man became a living soul. Our breath is our life, our bodies came from the dust of the ground. (Job 33:4) The Spirit of God hath made me, and the BREATH OF THE ALMIGHTY HATH GIVEN ME LIFE.

Take the dry bones for instance. (Ezek. 37:5) behold I will cause BREATH to enter into you, and ye SHALL LIVE. (Job 33:4) The Spirit of God hath made me and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life.

Here we have Job saying that it is God's Spirit that made his body but God's breath gave him life. So, by the Spirit of God everything was made but God's breath is what gave everything life. Wow! we have the breath of God.

(Psalms 146:4) His breath goeth forth, he {man} returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish. It is only the breath of God that returns to God, everything else returns to dust.

The way I understand this is kind of like the dry bones. When we die we know nothing, our thoughts are dead, our body returns to dust and our breath returns to God.  When we are resurrected God breathes his breath back into us and we become a living being, without his breath we are dead beings. We put on a new coat which is a spiritual coat and we become spiritual beings.

CHB

[micah7:9]

One thing that pops out to me with the line of questioning is that IN THIS WORLD natural takes precedence over spiritual.  The first Adam BECAME a living soul . . .what was he before he "became" something else?  The principles of the kingdom will ALWAYS be backwards to natural reasoning.  In this realm, flesh comes first and then spirit.

I think the reason you struggle is because you are seeing different things in different dimensions, thinking that it's all pertaining to "one" dimension.  To see that rivers are formed from water's accumulating in the air, the rivers pour into oceans and the oceans never increase in depth, but instead, the water evaporates back into the invisible air again . . ."that" is really how we came to be as well, and you can see that . . .it's the "big" picture.

But then when you pull up the passage of Paul, you've left the big picture, and now are looking at a more specific perspective.  It doesn't make it any less true, it's merely speaking on a different level of understanding.  Paul's not trying to explain where man originated . . .keep it in the context.

"The principles of the kingdom will ALWAYS be backwards to natural reasoning.  In this realm, flesh comes first and then spirit." Nathan

What you say has some merit, but I am not given to see it that way anymore. Some 30 yrs ago I purchased a book " The Upside Down Kingdom," a lot of what you post on the forum reminds me of what I got out of that book, even bought into that way of thinking for a while. I struggle, as you say for the simple reason that for 20 years I believed and accepted the teaching that we were "spirit" and that we will return to "spirit." Still believe it or want to believe it; But the Lord had me to stumble on to Paul in 1Cor. 15. and Paul does not teach what I had accepted, there is my struggle. Bu I thank you Nathan. :HeartThrob:

[micah7:9]

Micah, just my  :2c: but just because Eby, Prinzing, Roach, say something doesn't make it so. I have found that there are at least one flaw in the teachings of everyone. I don't believe there is one person who God gave the whole truth to. If you find that man I would like to meet him. Only God and Jesus Christ knows ALL things. 

How is it that Paul teaches that man was first in the natural and then the spirit "The first man, Adam, became, a living soul, the last Adam, a life-giving spirit."?
Against the stand that that all will return to spirit where they were first?

I have wondered about this myself and my personal feelings are that, sure we came from God and will return to God but the question is, what were we when we came from God? If God breathed into Adam and he BECAME a living soul, doesn't that mean that Adam wasn't a living soul before God breathed into him? You might could say we were the breath of God, right? (Gen. 2:7) And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and BREATHED into his nostrils the BREATH OF LIFE; and man became a living soul. Our breath is our life, our bodies came from the dust of the ground. (Job 33:4) The Spirit of God hath made me, and the BREATH OF THE ALMIGHTY HATH GIVEN ME LIFE.

Take the dry bones for instance. (Ezek. 37:5) behold I will cause BREATH to enter into you, and ye SHALL LIVE. (Job 33:4) The Spirit of God hath made me and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life.

Here we have Job saying that it is God's Spirit that made his body but God's breath gave him life. So, by the Spirit of God everything was made but God's breath is what gave everything life. Wow! we have the breath of God.

(Psalms 146:4) His breath goeth forth, he {man} returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish. It is only the breath of God that returns to God, everything else returns to dust.

The way I understand this is kind of like the dry bones. When we die we know nothing, our thoughts are dead, our body returns to dust and our breath returns to God.  When we are resurrected God breathes his breath back into us and we become a living being, without his breath we are dead beings. We put on a new coat which is a spiritual coat and we become spiritual beings.

CHB

May humbly say CHB you are very much in line of how the Lord is dropping hints so to speak. You are bold and honest. I hope we will text more. Thank you CHB I want do consider your thoughts more.  :HeartThrob: :cloud9: :bigGrin:

[thinktank]

It's only one verse though Micah, why let it tangle you up and choke you.

As for me I will continue to study that verse and see if God says anything.

It seems to me that the bible teaches both, views. Maybe it is a matter of who it is.

[micah7:9]

It's only one verse though Micah, why let it tangle you up and choke you.

As for me I will continue to study that verse and see if God says anything.

It seems to me that the bible teaches both, views. Maybe it is a matter of who it is.

Here is 3 more.
Gen 2:7  And Jehovah God formeth the man--dust from the ground, and breatheth into his nostrils breath of life, and the man becometh a living creature.
Psa 103:14  For he knoweth our frame; he remembereth that we are dust.
1Co 15:47  The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

Where does the Bible teach both?  Please that would help a lot, where is that teaching?  :HeartThrob:

[thinktank]

It's only one verse though Micah, why let it tangle you up and choke you.

As for me I will continue to study that verse and see if God says anything.

It seems to me that the bible teaches both, views. Maybe it is a matter of who it is.

Here is 3 more.
Gen 2:7  And Jehovah God formeth the man--dust from the ground, and breatheth into his nostrils breath of life, and the man becometh a living creature.
Psa 103:14  For he knoweth our frame; he remembereth that we are dust.
1Co 15:47  The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

Where does the Bible teach both?  Please that would help a lot, where is that teaching?  :HeartThrob:

Numbers 27:16
Let the LORD, the God of the spirits of all flesh, set a man over the congregation,


Numbers 16:22
And they fell upon their faces, and said, O God, the God of the spirits of all flesh, shall one man sin, and wilt thou be wroth with all the congregation?

Hebrews 12:23
To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

Judges 15:19
But God clave an hollow place that was in the jaw, and there came water thereout; and when he had drunk, his spirit came again, and he revived: wherefore he called the name thereof Enhakkore, which is in Lehi unto this day.

Isaiah 42:5
Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:

Acts 7:59
And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.

Romans 1:9
For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers;

Romans 8:16
The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

2 Corinthians 7:1
Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

That is just a small portion. There are also many scriptures in the psalms and also Paul talks about leaving his tabernacle to be with the lord. I have not even listed one scripture concerning the dozens of scriptures that talk of unclean spirits.

Psalm 143:7
Hear me speedily, O LORD: my spirit faileth: hide not thy face from me, lest I be like unto them that go down into the pit.

Perhaps it's possible for some spirits to fail. While others live by stealing, but the saints live from the word of God, bread of life.

Which gives 3 spirits.
Those that fail and fall to the dust
Those that continue to live, such as Saul, Stephen, Paul, Elijah,
Those that steal, eat dust and are unclean fugitives.




I hope you enjoy reading these. God bless

[micah7:9]

Have you ever considered your meanings of "spirit, breath, life, and soul," as they weave their way through the scriptures?

You have offered many good verses, you overlooked Heb 12:9  Then, indeed, fathers of our flesh we have had, chastising us , and we were reverencing them ; shall we not much rather be subject to the Father of the spirits, and live?
Then, indeed, fathers of our flesh we have had, chastising us , and we were reverencing them ; shall we not much rather be subject to the Father of the life, lifes and live?


How do I understand if one were to read...Acts 7:59
And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.
And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my life or breath.

Or Psalm 143:7
Hear me speedily, O LORD: my spirit faileth: hide not thy face from me, lest I be like unto them that go down into the pit.
Hear me speedily, O LORD: my life, breath faileth: hide not thy face from me, lest I be like unto them that go down into the
pit.

Or Numbers 27:16
Let the LORD, the God of the spirits of all flesh, set a man over the congregation,
Let the LORD, the God of the life, breaths of all flesh, set a man over the congregation,

There is truly much to see and seek the truth from. God Bless :HeartThrob:

[thinktank]

Isaiah 42:5
Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:

I see breath and spirit as seperate.

Breath is life, a gift to all living things, living flesh, including animals. Breath plus flesh = living soul.

But spirit is the true nature of man, the inner candle, that scripture speaks of.

It's an interesting study, there is much to learn, about soul, heart, spirit, breath and what they mean.

I cannot fully understand the difference between soul and spirit, but I am aware that in scriptures soul is only spoken of in combination with a body, flesh and blood, whereas spirit is spoken of with and without a body.

Our soul needs to become immortal, at the resurection, through the death atonement of Jesus Christ, but the spirit needs to be cleansed by baptism of fire.

So I think, that as saints we will have 2 lives.

The spirit life, at death and dreams and translation type miracles.
And the soul life upon earth. Which has not yet happened, until the resurection and the establishment of Israel and Gods laws as Gods capital of the earth.

The spirit life, we access heaven and all kinds of worlds that exist in Gods kingdom
And the soul life we live on the earth, as victorious souls, that we reign for a thousand years.

[CHB]

Hi TT,

When Jesus died he said  "into thy hands I commend my spirit" yet after he was resurrected he told Mary "touch me not for I have not ascended to my Father".

How would you explain this?

CHB

[micah7:9]

This in only my opinion but should we begin as the Bible states....
(ASV)  And Jehovah God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

(CLV) And forming is Yahweh Elohim the human of soil from the ground, and He is blowing into his nostrils the breath of the living, and becoming is the human a living soul.

(KJV)  And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

(YLT)  And Jehovah God formeth the man--dust from the ground, and breatheth into his nostrils breath of life, and the man becometh a living creature.

I contend that "breath" holds within it life "chay"(regular everyday living life), and that within that life is a lamp, that the Lord can and will light when He will, then when it is lit, I contend  is when we are born anew, that spirit is what He deals with. Joh 6:44  no one is able to come unto me, if the Father who sent me may not draw him, and I will raise him up in the last day;

This I believe is when the "spirit" that is workable, that lamp is lit, that is when the "living soul-human being comes into the yielding state, clay workable.
Psa 18:28  For Thou--Thou lightest my lamp, Jehovah my God enlighteneth my darkness.

My opinion only.

[thinktank]

Hi TT,

When Jesus died he said  "into thy hands I commend my spirit" yet after he was resurrected he told Mary "touch me not for I have not ascended to my Father".

How would you explain this?

CHB

There might be another explanation, but here goes.

There is two of Jesus.

The spirit of Jesus is the word, I AM, Abrahams friend, Gods only Son.

But the Jesus who touched Jesus, is the Jesus that grew up as a human baby in the likeness of man, a living soul, who has developed a personality based on his upbringing, which is very Jewish, such as calling the samaritan woman a dog, but her faith accessed the spirit of Jesus and overcame his Jewish upbringing in order to bless her. As a human soul, Jesus relied on his Father most of the time, I do what the Father showeth. But sometimes relied on His spirit I AM, such as raising Lazarus from the grave. From his manner of speech I perceive that the Father did not tell Jesus to raise Lazarus.

So in brief , After Jesus soul rose from the grave he as a soul did not yet, ascend to the Father.

[micah7:9]

Hi TT,

When Jesus died he said  "into thy hands I commend my spirit" yet after he was resurrected he told Mary "touch me not for I have not ascended to my Father".

How would you explain this?

CHB

There might be another explanation, but here goes.

There is two of Jesus.

The spirit of Jesus is the word, I AM, Abrahams friend, Gods only Son.

But the Jesus who touched Jesus, is the Jesus that grew up as a human baby in the likeness of man, a living soul, who has developed a personality based on his upbringing, which is very Jewish, such as calling the samaritan woman a dog, but her faith accessed the spirit of Jesus and overcame his Jewish upbringing in order to bless her. As a human soul, Jesus relied on his Father most of the time, I do what the Father showeth. But sometimes relied on His spirit I AM, such as raising Lazarus from the grave. From his manner of speech I perceive that the Father did not tell Jesus to raise Lazarus.

So in brief , After Jesus soul rose from the grave he as a soul did not yet, ascend to the Father.

Thinktank, may I as how you come upon the handle "thinktank?"  As for me, I find it quite appropriate.

[thinktank]

Thank you  :hihat: God is my inspiration.

[WhiteWings]

There might be another explanation, but here goes.

There is two of Jesus.

The spirit of Jesus is the word, I AM, Abrahams friend, Gods only Son.

But the Jesus who touched Jesus, is the Jesus that grew up as a human baby in the likeness of man, a living soul, who has developed a personality based on his upbringing, which is very Jewish, such as calling the samaritan woman a dog, but her faith accessed the spirit of Jesus and overcame his Jewish upbringing in order to bless her. As a human soul, Jesus relied on his Father most of the time, I do what the Father showeth. But sometimes relied on His spirit I AM, such as raising Lazarus from the grave.

John 5:30 By myself I can do nothing;.....

From his manner of speech I perceive that the Father did not tell Jesus to raise Lazarus.

So in brief , After Jesus soul rose from the grave he as a soul did not yet, ascend to the Father.

That happend over a month later.

[thinktank]

There might be another explanation, but here goes.

There is two of Jesus.

The spirit of Jesus is the word, I AM, Abrahams friend, Gods only Son.

But the Jesus who touched Jesus, is the Jesus that grew up as a human baby in the likeness of man, a living soul, who has developed a personality based on his upbringing, which is very Jewish, such as calling the samaritan woman a dog, but her faith accessed the spirit of Jesus and overcame his Jewish upbringing in order to bless her. As a human soul, Jesus relied on his Father most of the time, I do what the Father showeth. But sometimes relied on His spirit I AM, such as raising Lazarus from the grave.

John 5:30 By myself I can do nothing;.....

From his manner of speech I perceive that the Father did not tell Jesus to raise Lazarus.

So in brief , After Jesus soul rose from the grave he as a soul did not yet, ascend to the Father.

That happend over a month later.

With exceptions to walking on water, healing the sick, raising the dead. My peace I give to you, not as the world gives


Rose from the dead 3 days later.

[WhiteWings]

To clarify:
"That happend over a month later."

"That" points to ascending to heaven. Not resurrection itself.

[livingwater1]

Something I find fascinating re: natural first then spiritual;  is all the verses in the bible using the RE prefix (which means to me, a return).  ie:   REconciled, REvealed, REvelation, REnewing, REstoration, REpent etc.     

why the RE, if we are not REturning to something we were before; but have forgotten;   ???

[livingwater1]

maybe the "dead" know nothing; because they have forgotten their true nature;  and we are "waking" up to who we really are.  ARE as in no past and no future; but IS.   Dream land tends to make us "forget" the reality.   

[micah7:9]

This is the thought, reason, and theory, accepted, it would "seem" to be how man was "first" a spirit and (lowered) and to become a natural, earthy man(a living breathing in soul) and then to become a spiritual man or being.
Now I realize their are some who will express that this was not or is not how they came about their reasoning, but a revelation came to them without this knowledge, and that is okay. But J. Preston Eby who has for a long time offered much in his writings and known by many as a forerunner in many of who seek deeper things from Our Lord and Savio; and I believe he is a man that the Lord has blessed him greatly.
"Bro. Eby has so well written, we are not a human being having a spiritual experience, but a spiritual being having a human experience." (This is a quote from a Robert Torango letter I received as I asked other brothers about the subject.
I contend that if that is so, then I must figure that Paul wrote a riddle in 1Co 15:42  Thus, also the resurrection of the dead: it is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption,
1Co 15:43  It is sown in dishonour, it is raised in glory, it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power,
1Co 15:44  It is sown a body of the soul, it is raised a body of the spirit; if there is a body of the soul, there is also of the spirit:—
1Co 15:45  Thus, also, it is written—The first man, Adam, became, a living soul, the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.
1Co 15:46 Howbeit, not first, is the body of the spirit, but that, of the soul,—afterwards, that of the spirit.
1Co 15:47  The first man, is of the ground, earthy, the second man, is, of heaven:
1Co 15:48  As, the man of earth, such, also, the men of earth, and, as, the man of heaven, such, also, the men of heaven;
1Co 15:49  And, even as we have borne the image of the man of earth, let us also bear the image of the man of heaven.

I personally would like this understanding that Bro. Eby states to be a truth that I may lay this aside. I have mentioned earlier,  that I had accepted this offering of Bro. Eby for decades, it is just now that I am stumbling.  :HeartThrob:

[livingwater1]

This is the thought, reason, and theory, accepted, it would "seem" to be how man was "first" a spirit and (lowered) and to become a natural, earthy man(a living breathing in soul) and then to become a spiritual man or being.
Now I realize their are some who will express that this was not or is not how they came about their reasoning, but a revelation came to them without this knowledge, and that is okay. But J. Preston Eby who has for a long time offered much in his writings and known by many as a forerunner in many of who seek deeper things from Our Lord and Savio; and I believe he is a man that the Lord has blessed him greatly.
"Bro. Eby has so well written, we are not a human being having a spiritual experience, but a spiritual being having a human experience." (This is a quote from a Robert Torango letter I received as I asked other brothers about the subject.
I contend that if that is so, then I must figure that Paul wrote a riddle in 1Co 15:42  Thus, also the resurrection of the dead: it is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption,
1Co 15:43  It is sown in dishonour, it is raised in glory, it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power,
1Co 15:44  It is sown a body of the soul, it is raised a body of the spirit; if there is a body of the soul, there is also of the spirit:—
1Co 15:45  Thus, also, it is written—The first man, Adam, became, a living soul, the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.
1Co 15:46 Howbeit, not first, is the body of the spirit, but that, of the soul,—afterwards, that of the spirit.
1Co 15:47  The first man, is of the ground, earthy, the second man, is, of heaven:
1Co 15:48  As, the man of earth, such, also, the men of earth, and, as, the man of heaven, such, also, the men of heaven;
1Co 15:49  And, even as we have borne the image of the man of earth, let us also bear the image of the man of heaven.

I personally would like this understanding that Bro. Eby states to be a truth that I may lay this aside. I have mentioned earlier,  that I had accepted this offering of Bro. Eby for decades, it is just now that I am stumbling.  :HeartThrob:

i get eby's belief, and i get where u are coming from from these verses listed above.  but it doesn't explain to me, why the RE prefix, ie:  "raised in glory" to me would mean REsurrection.   "back to something, which would be in this case glory".  Micah, any thoughts as to the RE words in scripture.  ?? 

[Beloved Servant]

But it is not the spiritual life (Jesus the flesh man) which came first,
but the physical (Adam),
and then the spiritual (Jesus).

Adam, psuche, and individual living breath of the Elohim.