Slain from the foundation of the world

[WhiteWings]

If I may, let me suggest what I believe is going too far, Scott.  Blatantly going against the rules of the forum.  You've been allowed to do so now twice in the last few times you've been on.  If you read the FAQ's you'll see that ONCE (in this category - "trashing" [discounting] the scriptures) is typically considered a "fatal" action.  Please take this into consideration.

Warning someone of listening to people who don't believe the whole of the scriptures, is in fact, our duty.  I agree we must be careful, as none of us has all the truth and understanding, so differences of opinion are to be expected.

Everyone can argue opions and even forum rules. But there is a big problem with that. So big this forum is a waste of time.

Hereby I state Jesus had red hair. Prove me wrong with a verse. If you can prove me wrong I just answer the scribes messed up.
That's the real problem I have with your views Scott. It's not that you disagree with me (many do) but it's impossible to discuss what the Bible teaches if we never can know what it teaches due to scribes who messed up.
:2c:

[pneuma]

That's interesting. You know had Jesus failed, God could have lost his Son for eternity.

It was impossible for Jesus to fail or be lost
For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me — John 6:38

Yes as long as He did the will of the Father and not His own will it was impossible for Him to be lost.

"as long as"  <— ???
He specifically states that He came to do the Fathers will.
Period.

Yes He came to do the will of the Father

But that does not mean He did not have a will of His own that if He followed He would have sinned.

Tell me was His temptation by satan and His garden experince just a sham?

[Molly]

Pneuma, I agree with a lot of what you have said.

But did you say who or what was the lamb slain from the foundation of the world?

If you did, I missed it.

[Beloved Servant]

That's interesting. You know had Jesus failed, God could have lost his Son for eternity.

It was impossible for Jesus to fail or be lost
For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me — John 6:38

Yes as long as He did the will of the Father and not His own will it was impossible for Him to be lost.

"as long as"  <— ???
He specifically states that He came to do the Fathers will.
Period.

Yes He came to do the will of the Father

But that does not mean He did not have a will of His own that if He followed He would have sinned.

Tell me was His temptation by satan and His garden experince just a sham?

Read that Jesus was tempted AFTER the Father announced that in Him He was well pleased!

[Molly]

That's interesting. You know had Jesus failed, God could have lost his Son for eternity.

It was impossible for Jesus to fail or be lost
For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me — John 6:38

Yes as long as He did the will of the Father and not His own will it was impossible for Him to be lost.

"as long as"  <— ???
He specifically states that He came to do the Fathers will.
Period.

Yes He came to do the will of the Father

But that does not mean He did not have a will of His own that if He followed He would have sinned.

Tell me was His temptation by satan and His garden experince just a sham?

Read that Jesus was tempted AFTER the Father announced that in Him He was well pleased!

Jesus prayed to be delivered of this cup in the garden--and that prayer was answered!  The cross was his choice.

[Beloved Servant]

The Cross is eternal.

[Molly]

The Cross is eternal.

not disputing, but is there a scripture for that?

[pneuma]

Pneuma, I agree with a lot of what you have said.

But did you say who or what was the lamb slain from the foundation of the world?

If you did, I missed it.

Hi sis, check out reply # 30

[pneuma]

That's interesting. You know had Jesus failed, God could have lost his Son for eternity.

It was impossible for Jesus to fail or be lost
For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me — John 6:38

Yes as long as He did the will of the Father and not His own will it was impossible for Him to be lost.

"as long as"  <— ???
He specifically states that He came to do the Fathers will.
Period.

Yes He came to do the will of the Father

But that does not mean He did not have a will of His own that if He followed He would have sinned.

Tell me was His temptation by satan and His garden experince just a sham?

Read that Jesus was tempted AFTER the Father announced that in Him He was well pleased!

So does that prove that His temptations were just a sham?

Was He really tempted or wasn't He.

Could He have sinned by following His own will?

[Beloved Servant]

Can a leopard change its spots? It's all rhetoric.

Luke's Account:
25 And lo! there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name is Simeon. And this man is just and pious, anticipating the consolation of Israel, and holy spirit was on him.
26 And he was apprised by the holy spirit that he would not be acquainted with death ere he should be acquainted with the Lord's Christ.
27 And he came, in the spirit, into the sanctuary, and as the parents are bringing in the little Boy Jesus, for them to do according to the custom of the law concerning Him,
28 he also receives Him, clasping Him in his arms. And he blesses God, and said,
29 "Now art Thou dismissing Thy slave, O Owner, According to Thy declaration, in peace,
30 For my eyes perceived Thy Salvation

[Beloved Servant]

The Cross is eternal.

not disputing, but is there a scripture for that?

"Forasmuch as you know that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; but with the precious blood of Christ, as a lamb without blemish and without spot: who verily was FOREORDAINED BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD, but was manifest in these last times for you" (I Pet. 1:18-20).

[pneuma]

The Cross is eternal.

not disputing, but is there a scripture for that?

"Forasmuch as you know that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; but with the precious blood of Christ, as a lamb without blemish and without spot: who verily was FOREORDAINED BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD, but was manifest in these last times for you" (I Pet. 1:18-20).

You still did not answer the question.

was Jesus temptation just a sham or were they real temptations?

[rosered]

   for this purpose was Jesus come and sent and  made known !! THE CROSS  :HeartThrob:

  HEAR  the Lord ..

Jhn 18:37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.


  1Jo 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Col 2  all of it is signifigant ..


and  this 1Cr 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God   :HeartThrob:

[rosered]

The Cross is eternal.

not disputing, but is there a scripture for that?

"Forasmuch as you know that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; but with the precious blood of Christ, as a lamb without blemish and without spot: who verily was FOREORDAINED BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD, but was manifest in these last times for you" (I Pet. 1:18-20).

You still did not answer the question.

was Jesus temptation just a sham or were they real temptations?

  Real   to me ...  what are we told to do but take up our cross and follow Him   this means to suffer    even suffer temptation and  overcome with them  and the Lord will deliver us , by faith  beliving


Mat 16:24 ¶ Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any [man] will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
Luk 6:40 The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his master.

[pneuma]

The Cross is eternal.

not disputing, but is there a scripture for that?

"Forasmuch as you know that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; but with the precious blood of Christ, as a lamb without blemish and without spot: who verily was FOREORDAINED BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD, but was manifest in these last times for you" (I Pet. 1:18-20).

You still did not answer the question.

was Jesus temptation just a sham or were they real temptations?

  Real   to me ...  what are we told to do but take up our cross and follow Him   this means to suffer    even suffer temptation and  overcome with them  and the Lord will deliver us , by faith  beliving


Mat 16:24  Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any [man] will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
Luk 6:40 The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his master.

Amen Rose, they were real and as they were real Jesus could have sinned, but He overcame the temptation by following the WILL of the FATHER.

[rosered]

Gal 6:1 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.

   like sheep to the slaughter  so are we going Rom 8:36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
as  was the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world ..Body of Christ its an open BOOK to many  who have been given the eyesof percieving  to see this happen  :HeartThrob:

[Molly]

The Cross is eternal.

not disputing, but is there a scripture for that?

"Forasmuch as you know that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; but with the precious blood of Christ, as a lamb without blemish and without spot: who verily was FOREORDAINED BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD, but was manifest in these last times for you" (I Pet. 1:18-20).

Ok.  That's a good scripture that says it was foreknown that we would be redeemed by the precious blood of Christ before the foundation of the world.

That word for 'before' is 'pro'. It means 'prior to'. It's a different word from the one used in this verse which is apo--the lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

The fact that it was foreordained, that is foreknown, does not mean that it was still not Christ's choice.  It was his choice.  His prayer was answered. He was given the opportunity to walk away. It was foreknown that he would not waiver in his purpose.

[thinktank]

The Cross is eternal.

not disputing, but is there a scripture for that?

"Forasmuch as you know that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; but with the precious blood of Christ, as a lamb without blemish and without spot: who verily was FOREORDAINED BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD, but was manifest in these last times for you" (I Pet. 1:18-20).

You still did not answer the question.

was Jesus temptation just a sham or were they real temptations?

I believe so and invites us to overcome with Him

1 John 2:14
I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one.


1 John 5:4
For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.


Revelation 2:26
And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

1 John 4:4
Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[rosered]

The Cross is eternal.

not disputing, but is there a scripture for that?

"Forasmuch as you know that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; but with the precious blood of Christ, as a lamb without blemish and without spot: who verily was FOREORDAINED BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD, but was manifest in these last times for you" (I Pet. 1:18-20).

You still did not answer the question.

was Jesus temptation just a sham or were they real temptations?

  Real   to me ...  what are we told to do but take up our cross and follow Him   this means to suffer    even suffer temptation and  overcome with them  and the Lord will deliver us , by faith  beliving


Mat 16:24  Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any [man] will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
Luk 6:40 The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his master.

Amen Rose, they were real and as they were real Jesus could have sinned, but He overcame the temptation by following the WILL of the FATHER.

:thumbsup:   :HeartThrob:


Jhn 5:20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.
Jhn 5:21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth [them]; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will. For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

That all [men] should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man

Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice
And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Jhn 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

we are as the dead and our hearts /graves opened to recieve Him  gives us life through HIM , GODS WILL being done on earth as it is in heaven :)  :HeartThrob:

[rosered]

The Cross is eternal.

not disputing, but is there a scripture for that?

"Forasmuch as you know that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; but with the precious blood of Christ, as a lamb without blemish and without spot: who verily was FOREORDAINED BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD, but was manifest in these last times for you" (I Pet. 1:18-20).

You still did not answer the question.

was Jesus temptation just a sham or were they real temptations?

I believe so and invites us to overcome with Him

1 John 2:14
I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one.


1 John 5:4
For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.


Revelation 2:26
And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

1 John 4:4
Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

amen !  a heartly amen Bro TT !  :thumbsup: :HeartThrob:

[rosered]

The Cross is eternal.

not disputing, but is there a scripture for that?

"Forasmuch as you know that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; but with the precious blood of Christ, as a lamb without blemish and without spot: who verily was FOREORDAINED BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD, but was manifest in these last times for you" (I Pet. 1:18-20).

Ok.  That's a good scripture that says it was foreknown that we would be redeemed by the precious blood of Christ before the foundation of the world.

That word for 'before' is 'pro'. It means 'prior to'. It's a different word from the one used in this verse which is apo--the lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

The fact that it was foreordained, that is foreknown, does not mean that it was still not Christ's choice.  It was his choice.  His prayer was answered. He was given the opportunity to walk away. It was foreknown that he would not waiver in his purpose.

Yes Sis  why He was sent by the Father    the POWER OF GOD and Wisdom of God    and made manifest in the earth  :HeartThrob:


1Cr 1:24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
proverbs 8
22 "The Lord formed me from the beginning,
      before he created anything else.
23 I was appointed in ages past,
      at the very first, before the earth began.
24 I was born before the oceans were created,
      before the springs bubbled forth their waters.
25 Before the mountains were formed,
      before the hills, I was born—
26 before he had made the earth and fields
      and the first handfuls of soil.
27 I was there when he established the heavens,
      when he drew the horizon on the oceans.
28 I was there when he set the clouds above,
      when he established springs deep in the earth.
29 I was there when he set the limits of the seas,
      so they would not spread beyond their boundaries.
   And when he marked off the earth's foundations,
    30 I was the architect at his side.
   I was his constant delight,
      rejoicing always in his presence.
31 And how happy I was with the world he created;
      how I rejoiced with the human family!


  :HeartThrob:  wowza!!  :cloud9:

[thinktank]

The Cross is eternal.

not disputing, but is there a scripture for that?

"Forasmuch as you know that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; but with the precious blood of Christ, as a lamb without blemish and without spot: who verily was FOREORDAINED BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD, but was manifest in these last times for you" (I Pet. 1:18-20).

Ok.  That's a good scripture that says it was foreknown that we would be redeemed by the precious blood of Christ before the foundation of the world.

That word for 'before' is 'pro'. It means 'prior to'. It's a different word from the one used in this verse which is apo--the lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

The fact that it was foreordained, that is foreknown, does not mean that it was still not Christ's choice.  It was his choice.  His prayer was answered. He was given the opportunity to walk away. It was foreknown that he would not waiver in his purpose.

But would that impact His decision? Does the fact that the knows the outcome, influence His decision to come into the world. Does He really look at future events before they unfold?

For one even though God knows the end from the beginning, doesn't that mean that he had to have gone through it so to speak?

How can he know the future if he had yet performed it?

Maybe when God knows all things it simply means that he has already accomplished all things, so he has full video footage of the entire universal events, and we are currently living in that fixed time frame.

So he would have to have gone to the cross, at some point, not knowing what would happen. So the question is whether he relied on pure Faith in the FAther that He would deliver His beloved Son not knowing the outcome, or that His faith was based on the foreknowledge that whatever happens, all is well, because he already knows the outcome that he would overcome. Or perhaps it is based on both types of faith.

[Beloved Servant]

Tempted? The scripture is plain on that!

"Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!
He does not add to it! 

There are no ifs, ands or buts about it. He came to do the Fathers will. The Father is first pleased with Him before any temptations of Christ — HE IS THE ANOINTED ONE.

[rosered]

 
  GREAT Verses and point Bro T , aka WW!!  :icon_flower:  Amen the 3 are one '  one Body ONE GOD ALL IN ALL
  see were all connected in ways   , way past figuring it out !  :happy3:



Jam 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
  so we are still dead without the works of the 3  Holy Spirit /FATHER / CHRIST   in us doing the very works 
is  than ....

[rosered]

Tempted? The scripture is plain on that!

"Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!
He does not add to it! 

There are no ifs, ands or buts about it. He came to do the Fathers will. The Father is first pleased with Him before any temptations of Christ — HE IS THE ANOINTED ONE.

  YES !! and if you can SEE it   many  before  , now and  to come  are made up in the BODY OF CHRIST / annointed ONE its the living breathing  , moving Spirit  that does all the good and perfect works  of Gods Will
  :HeartThrob:


Act 17:28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.



1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.