Moses and Elias talking with him

[rosered]

...so...you think Jesus was just talking to a vision? what about God saying to Peter,'this is my

  son,listen to him"  was that just a vision,too?  Jesus didn't really start lighting upin glory?

    what about 'all live unto God"?

I think Jesus being transformed was a case of their eyes being opened to see him more like he really is, and seeing Moses and Elijah was a "vision" because that's what scripture calls it.

"Now you may tell no one of the vision till the Son of Mankind may be roused from among the dead." (Matthew 17:9)

I think the "voice out of the cloud" was not a vision but the audible voice of the Father. I think the dead are not alive because the body returns to the soil, the soul to the unseen, and the spirit to God. I think Moses and Elijah will eventually be resurrected, but only Christ has immortality now.

"...our Lord, Christ Jesus, which, to its own eras, the happy and only Potentate will be showing: He is King of kings and Lord of lords, Who alone has immortality, making His home in light inaccessible, Whom not one of mankind perceived nor can be perceiving, to Whom be honor and might eonian!" (1 Timothy 6:14-16)

Perhaps you misspoke, "I think the "voice out of the cloud" was not a vision but the audible voice of the Father.
Joh 5:37  `And the Father who sent me Himself hath testified concerning me; ye have neither heard His voice at any time, nor His appearance have ye seen;

Just me thinking :2c:

Brother, I think John 5:37 should be understood in the sense that those who weren't chosen among the Jews couldn't see or hear according to God's will.

"What Israel is seeking for, this she did not encounter, yet the chosen encountered it. Now the rest were calloused, even as it is written, God gives them a spirit of stupor, eyes not to be observing, and ears not to be hearing, till this very day." (Romans 11:7,8)

Here's another occasion when it seems like it's the Father who is speaking about his son, Jesus.

"Now, being baptized, Jesus straightway stepped up from the water, and lo! opened up to Him were the heavens, and He perceived the spirit of God descending as if a dove, and coming on Him. And lo! a voice out of the heavens, saying, "This is My Son, the Beloved, in Whom I delight."" (Matthew 3:17)

I used to have a hard time understanding how there could be a separate voice from that of Christ's because he is the word of God, but, if it wasn't the Father's voice, whose was it?

I was going to use the same verse but from Luke, I felt it would only stir the thought more. As to who or what "voice/sound/disclosure," it was, I don't know. But according to Jesus, it was not the Father's. Now how the Father did what He did so that the "voice/sound/disclosure," was heard, I do not know.

Well, I guess there's a possibility that there was a ventriloquist in the crowd, but I kind of doubt it.

:laugh:       

[micah7:9]

...so...you think Jesus was just talking to a vision? what about God saying to Peter,'this is my

  son,listen to him"  was that just a vision,too?  Jesus didn't really start lighting upin glory?

    what about 'all live unto God"?

I think Jesus being transformed was a case of their eyes being opened to see him more like he really is, and seeing Moses and Elijah was a "vision" because that's what scripture calls it.

"Now you may tell no one of the vision till the Son of Mankind may be roused from among the dead." (Matthew 17:9)

I think the "voice out of the cloud" was not a vision but the audible voice of the Father. I think the dead are not alive because the body returns to the soil, the soul to the unseen, and the spirit to God. I think Moses and Elijah will eventually be resurrected, but only Christ has immortality now.

"...our Lord, Christ Jesus, which, to its own eras, the happy and only Potentate will be showing: He is King of kings and Lord of lords, Who alone has immortality, making His home in light inaccessible, Whom not one of mankind perceived nor can be perceiving, to Whom be honor and might eonian!" (1 Timothy 6:14-16)

Perhaps you misspoke, "I think the "voice out of the cloud" was not a vision but the audible voice of the Father.
Joh 5:37  `And the Father who sent me Himself hath testified concerning me; ye have neither heard His voice at any time, nor His appearance have ye seen;

Just me thinking :2c:

Brother, I think John 5:37 should be understood in the sense that those who weren't chosen among the Jews couldn't see or hear according to God's will.

"What Israel is seeking for, this she did not encounter, yet the chosen encountered it. Now the rest were calloused, even as it is written, God gives them a spirit of stupor, eyes not to be observing, and ears not to be hearing, till this very day." (Romans 11:7,8)

Here's another occasion when it seems like it's the Father who is speaking about his son, Jesus.

"Now, being baptized, Jesus straightway stepped up from the water, and lo! opened up to Him were the heavens, and He perceived the spirit of God descending as if a dove, and coming on Him. And lo! a voice out of the heavens, saying, "This is My Son, the Beloved, in Whom I delight."" (Matthew 3:17)

I used to have a hard time understanding how there could be a separate voice from that of Christ's because he is the word of God, but, if it wasn't the Father's voice, whose was it?

I was going to use the same verse but from Luke, I felt it would only stir the thought more. As to who or what "voice/sound/disclosure," it was, I don't know. But according to Jesus, it was not the Father's. Now how the Father did what He did so that the "voice/sound/disclosure," was heard, I do not know.

Well, I guess there's a possibility that there was a ventriloquist in the crowd, but I kind of doubt it.

You are being humorous now right? :dsunny:

[Tom]

...so...you think Jesus was just talking to a vision? what about God saying to Peter,'this is my

  son,listen to him"  was that just a vision,too?  Jesus didn't really start lighting upin glory?

    what about 'all live unto God"?

I think Jesus being transformed was a case of their eyes being opened to see him more like he really is, and seeing Moses and Elijah was a "vision" because that's what scripture calls it.

"Now you may tell no one of the vision till the Son of Mankind may be roused from among the dead." (Matthew 17:9)

I think the "voice out of the cloud" was not a vision but the audible voice of the Father. I think the dead are not alive because the body returns to the soil, the soul to the unseen, and the spirit to God. I think Moses and Elijah will eventually be resurrected, but only Christ has immortality now.

"...our Lord, Christ Jesus, which, to its own eras, the happy and only Potentate will be showing: He is King of kings and Lord of lords, Who alone has immortality, making His home in light inaccessible, Whom not one of mankind perceived nor can be perceiving, to Whom be honor and might eonian!" (1 Timothy 6:14-16)

Perhaps you misspoke, "I think the "voice out of the cloud" was not a vision but the audible voice of the Father.
Joh 5:37  `And the Father who sent me Himself hath testified concerning me; ye have neither heard His voice at any time, nor His appearance have ye seen;

Just me thinking :2c:

Brother, I think John 5:37 should be understood in the sense that those who weren't chosen among the Jews couldn't see or hear according to God's will.

"What Israel is seeking for, this she did not encounter, yet the chosen encountered it. Now the rest were calloused, even as it is written, God gives them a spirit of stupor, eyes not to be observing, and ears not to be hearing, till this very day." (Romans 11:7,8)

Here's another occasion when it seems like it's the Father who is speaking about his son, Jesus.

"Now, being baptized, Jesus straightway stepped up from the water, and lo! opened up to Him were the heavens, and He perceived the spirit of God descending as if a dove, and coming on Him. And lo! a voice out of the heavens, saying, "This is My Son, the Beloved, in Whom I delight."" (Matthew 3:17)

I used to have a hard time understanding how there could be a separate voice from that of Christ's because he is the word of God, but, if it wasn't the Father's voice, whose was it?

I was going to use the same verse but from Luke, I felt it would only stir the thought more. As to who or what "voice/sound/disclosure," it was, I don't know. But according to Jesus, it was not the Father's. Now how the Father did what He did so that the "voice/sound/disclosure," was heard, I do not know.

Well, I guess there's a possibility that there was a ventriloquist in the crowd, but I kind of doubt it.

You are being humorous now right? :dsunny:

Humor is what keeps me going, bro, when all else fails.

[micah7:9]

...so...you think Jesus was just talking to a vision? what about God saying to Peter,'this is my

  son,listen to him"  was that just a vision,too?  Jesus didn't really start lighting upin glory?

    what about 'all live unto God"?

I think Jesus being transformed was a case of their eyes being opened to see him more like he really is, and seeing Moses and Elijah was a "vision" because that's what scripture calls it.

"Now you may tell no one of the vision till the Son of Mankind may be roused from among the dead." (Matthew 17:9)

I think the "voice out of the cloud" was not a vision but the audible voice of the Father. I think the dead are not alive because the body returns to the soil, the soul to the unseen, and the spirit to God. I think Moses and Elijah will eventually be resurrected, but only Christ has immortality now.

"...our Lord, Christ Jesus, which, to its own eras, the happy and only Potentate will be showing: He is King of kings and Lord of lords, Who alone has immortality, making His home in light inaccessible, Whom not one of mankind perceived nor can be perceiving, to Whom be honor and might eonian!" (1 Timothy 6:14-16)

Perhaps you misspoke, "I think the "voice out of the cloud" was not a vision but the audible voice of the Father.
Joh 5:37  `And the Father who sent me Himself hath testified concerning me; ye have neither heard His voice at any time, nor His appearance have ye seen;

Just me thinking :2c:

Brother, I think John 5:37 should be understood in the sense that those who weren't chosen among the Jews couldn't see or hear according to God's will.

"What Israel is seeking for, this she did not encounter, yet the chosen encountered it. Now the rest were calloused, even as it is written, God gives them a spirit of stupor, eyes not to be observing, and ears not to be hearing, till this very day." (Romans 11:7,8)

Here's another occasion when it seems like it's the Father who is speaking about his son, Jesus.

"Now, being baptized, Jesus straightway stepped up from the water, and lo! opened up to Him were the heavens, and He perceived the spirit of God descending as if a dove, and coming on Him. And lo! a voice out of the heavens, saying, "This is My Son, the Beloved, in Whom I delight."" (Matthew 3:17)

I used to have a hard time understanding how there could be a separate voice from that of Christ's because he is the word of God, but, if it wasn't the Father's voice, whose was it?

I was going to use the same verse but from Luke, I felt it would only stir the thought more. As to who or what "voice/sound/disclosure," it was, I don't know. But according to Jesus, it was not the Father's. Now how the Father did what He did so that the "voice/sound/disclosure," was heard, I do not know.

Well, I guess there's a possibility that there was a ventriloquist in the crowd, but I kind of doubt it.

You are being humorous now right? :dsunny:

Humor is what keeps me going, bro, when all else fails.

:laugh:

[marie glen]

  I love the transfiguration      did a  deeper study of it   years ago and forgot most of it ...

:laughing7: isn't that just the way!?

    but the ones picked to go and  witness this amazing     thing , and they seeing the glimpse of Jesus glory to come  :HeartThrob:


  for me  and me only,   I see the    Moses / law and prophets /Elijah     as   all 3   gathered together as    witnesses  to this GLORY

Oh..! I've always wondered about the two.. in this vision.. that makes sense.. represent the law(Moses) and the prophets(Elijah) :thumbsup: :smile:

  ....and    Jesus  be fulfilling all the law and prophets    Do not think that I have come to revoke The Written Law or The Prophets; I am not come to revoke but to fulfill.
  this is why He   stood alone    ,  and   the Father spoke and said  this is my son hear  him !

   and  Jesus words also to   us  as to them


On these two commands depend/ hang all The Written Law and The Prophets.

Amen "to love God and also" our fellow person.. "love is the fulfilling of the law" :banana:

Was it a snap shot of what was to come on the day of Pentecost?

I would  say Yes

  :iagree:  :iagree:

[rosered]

 
Amen,, Thanks   sis Marie , for bring out   even more ! :thumbsup:

[marie glen]

New International Version
As they were coming down the mountain, Jesus instructed them, "Don't tell anyone what you have seen, until the Son of Man has been raised from the dead."


It happens at the feast of tabernacles, which will be the fulfillment of the mystery of God.

5Then the angel whom I saw standing on the sea and on the land lifted up his right hand to heaven, 6and swore by Him who lives forever and ever, WHO CREATED HEAVEN AND THE THINGS IN IT, AND THE EARTH AND THE THINGS IN IT, AND THE SEA AND THE THINGS IN IT, that there will be delay no longer, 7but in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound, then the mystery of God is finished, as He preached to His servants the prophets.

--Rev 10:6

amen a finishing of the works of the earth.. then later, Rev 21:3 "And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God."

He will tabernacle with man on an Earth made new in a universe made new.. :banana: :cloud9:

Revelation 21:6
He said to me: "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To the thirsty I will give water without cost from the spring of the water of life.

[marie glen]

  ...But God said   Hear my Son , hear what the Spirit is saying  His/ Jesus , testimony IS   THE SPIRIT OF PROPHECY and   than Jesus was ALONE ...

Does not anyone understand the powerful sign of this ???


Isaiah 63 God's Judgment on the Nations


...2Why is Your apparel red, And Your garments like the one who treads in the wine press?


3"I have trodden the wine trough alone, And from the peoples there was no man with Me.

  ! :Chinscratch: very interesting! :smile:

[sheila]

Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day-he saw it and was glad.....

   no...Father Abraham..but if someone goes to them from the dead..they will repent....

   but he said to them....IF they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets..they will not

  be persuaded..even if someone rises from the dead[Moses/Elijah were speaking with Jesus

  about his departure]

   

[Tom]

Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day-he saw it and was glad.....

   no...Father Abraham..but if someone goes to them from the dead..they will repent....

   but he said to them....IF they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets..they will not

  be persuaded..even if someone rises from the dead[Moses/Elijah were speaking with Jesus

  about his departure]

Sheila, I know it goes against what some folks were taught, including me, but I think scripture says the dead stay dead, including believers, until we're resurrected when Christ meets us in the air. I also think the story of "The Rich Man And Lazarus," which happens to be one part of a five part parable, is an example of Christ using the false teachings of the Pharisees against them.

http://concordant.org/expohtml/HumanDestiny/lazarus1.html

[marie glen]

so the voice being talked about in this thread.. is two.. like two threads (sorry, just kidding :laughing7: )

two occasions, that is.. the voice the 3 heard on the Mountain of transfiguration that day..

Then when Jesus told some pharisees "you have never heard His voice.." right? or did He speak that to the disciples..?

Okay, gotta check..

    - "For this reason the Jews persecuted Jesus, and sought to kill Him,[a] because He had done these things on the Sabbath. 17 But Jesus answered them.." from John 5:16,17..

continued on, and it's verse 37 where He says "but you have neither heard His voice at any time, or.."

He could have by then been also talking to the crowd, including disciples..

Who heard the voice at Jesus' baptism? some who were there, or only the Baptist?

"When all the people were baptized, it came to pass that Jesus also was baptized; and while He prayed, the heaven was opened. 22 And the Holy Spirit descended in bodily form like a dove upon Him, and a voice came from heaven which said, "You are My beloved Son; in You I am well pleased.".." Luke 3:21-22

:Chinscratch: I'm thinking "you have neither heard His voice at any time" likely spoken to the Pharisees(?) who were giving Him a hard time..

[marie glen]

Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day-he saw it and was glad.....

   no...Father Abraham..but if someone goes to them from the dead..they will repent....

   but he said to them....IF they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets..they will not

  be persuaded..even if someone rises from the dead[Moses/Elijah were speaking with Jesus

  about his departure]

Sheila, I know it goes against what some folks were taught, including me, but I think scripture says the dead stay dead, including believers, until we're resurrected when Christ meets us in the air. I also think the story of "The Rich Man And Lazarus," which happens to be one part of a five part parable, is an example of Christ using the false teachings of the Pharisees against them.

http://concordant.org/expohtml/HumanDestiny/lazarus1.html

I never thought of that! I know it's parable only.. Lazarus and the rich man.. but using false teachings against.. :Chinscratch: I have thought.. making fun of.. and, or using Greek high drama..

very interesting...

I also thought part of high Greek drama, in a sense.. what Irony.. "wouldn't believe, even if one were to come back from the grave and tell them" speaking of His self!! (?)

But also at the transfiguration, the account in Luke (9:31) says "and spoke of His desease" death which He should accomplish at Jerusalem.."

I've wondered if they didn't indeed appear, but having come outside of time, so in a sense had come back in time..? :o? :Chinscratch:

[Tom]

so the voice being talked about in this thread.. is two.. like two threads (sorry, just kidding :laughing7: )

two occasions, that is.. the voice the 3 heard on the Mountain of transfiguration that day..

Then when Jesus told some pharisees "you have never heard His voice.." right? or did He speak that to the disciples..?

Okay, gotta check..

    - "For this reason the Jews persecuted Jesus, and sought to kill Him,[a] because He had done these things on the Sabbath. 17 But Jesus answered them.." from John 5:16,17..

continued on, and it's verse 37 where He says "but you have neither heard His voice at any time, or.."

He could have by then been also talking to the crowd, including disciples..

Who heard the voice at Jesus' baptism? some who were there, or only the Baptist?

"When all the people were baptized, it came to pass that Jesus also was baptized; and while He prayed, the heaven was opened. 22 And the Holy Spirit descended in bodily form like a dove upon Him, and a voice came from heaven which said, "You are My beloved Son; in You I am well pleased.".." Luke 3:21-22

:Chinscratch: I'm thinking "you have neither heard His voice at any time" likely spoken to the Pharisees(?) who were giving Him a hard time..

I agree.

"What Israel is seeking for, this she did not encounter, yet the chosen encountered it. Now the rest were calloused, even as it is written, God gives them a spirit of stupor, eyes not to be observing, and ears not to be hearing, till this very day." (Romans 11:7,8)

[WhiteWings]

but you have neither heard His voice at any time, or..

I think "voice" can also have the meaning of understanding.

[Tom]

Right or even believing.

[rosered]

Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day-he saw it and was glad.....

   no...Father Abraham..but if someone goes to them from the dead..they will repent....

   but he said to them....IF they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets..they will not

  be persuaded..even if someone rises from the dead[Moses/Elijah were speaking with Jesus

  about his departure]

Sheila, I know it goes against what some folks were taught, including me, but I think scripture says the dead stay dead, including believers, until we're resurrected when Christ meets us in the air. I also think the story of "The Rich Man And Lazarus," which happens to be one part of a five part parable, is an example of Christ using the false teachings of the Pharisees against them.

http://concordant.org/expohtml/HumanDestiny/lazarus1.html

  I am one who does not believe the dead   stay dead in the last mortal breath they take Bro Tom

I  think the believers  reward is  JESUS BODY the promised land  and they go straight into  this reward
Jesus is the reward [My rewards are with Me]

I believe the dead are raise  even now more so than the working Jesus was doing as the Father sent Him to do    , I think its greater even now
  and we may not   see  the dead as the same thing       
a timeless truth  for me means always   , not  bound     by  time nor the will of mankind


19But Yeshua answered and said to them: "Timeless truth I tell you:

The Son cannot do anything of his own will, but the thing that he sees The Father is doing; for those things that The Father does, these also The Son does like him.

20For The Father loves his Son and he shows him everything he does;


greater deeds than these He will show him, that you may be astonished.


21For just as The Father raises the dead and gives them life, thus also The Son gives life to them whom he will. 22For it is not The Father who judges a man, but he has given all judgment to The Son

23That everyone should honor The Son as one honors The Father. He who does not honor The Son is not honoring The Father who sent him.

24Timeless truth I speak to you: "Whoever hears my word and trusts in him who has sent me has the eternal Life, and he comes not into judgment, but he moves from death into Life.

25Timeless truth I speak to you:

The hour is coming, it is even now, when the dead shall hear the voice of The Son of God, and they who hear shall live.


26For just as The Father has The Life in himself, so he has given also to The Son to have The Life in himself. 27And he has given him authority to also do judgment because he is The Son of Man. 28Do not be astonished at this, for the hour is coming when all who are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29And they shall come out: those who have done good things, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil deeds, to the resurrection of judgment.

30I cannot do anything of my own will, but according to that which I have heard, I judge, and my judgment is just, for I am not seeking my will, but the will of him who has sent Me.

31And if I testify about myself, my testimony is not true. 32There is another who testifies about me, and I know that his testimony, which he testifies of me, is true.

   you see  none can make that call     , I believe Jesus here   totally

  and that is why no man knows not  angels  ,  even Jesus but the Father only  !!     each in his own order    as Paul also says it   about resurrection  to life from the dead

  Just  maybe its many,  do not understand   the meaning  of  serving the Living God means ?
What does this mean to you Tom  , I am just  wondering   why to believe the dead are all dead   still ?I know the place of the dead is  where the dead  stay also , so we agree there is a place of the dead   but I think     ALL believers   are not  dead 
,
  I know  the old testament says Solomon   with wisdom of the earth   said this about the  dead  , But Jesus come and speaks   clearly    a greater than Solomon  is here and present      He is the resurrection
I believe the Resurrection is always    just as Jesus Christ is always    , but that is just me  and maybe  some others I am not sure , God knows  sis
Shelia I know does
 

[sheila]

Moses and the prophets,as well as Jesus Christ was whom the Lord God spoke[give His word] unto

the people. the people had said 'do not have God to speak to us,lest we die" and so God

  had Moses and prophets to speak for Him to the people..sending finally the 'word of God' come

  in flesh..through His son. Jesus said 'that if ye had believed Moses..ye would believe in me"

   God's covenant with Abraham was  to those that believed the word of God to them.......

    and the promised 'seed' was Jesus Christ.  when God cut the covenant with Abraham

   Abraham wore himself out all day..shooing the birds from it.......he fell asleep and

great dreadful darkness come......and a smoking furnance and a torch passed between

the pieces...the smoking furnace[God on the Mount speaking with Moses/law/shiningface]

and the torch =Jesus/Elijah[prophesy spirit..torch passed to Elisha[if ye see me when I am

taken] and  unto the disciples[promise Holy spirit poured out]     SPEAK TO THE ROCK AND

WATER WILL POUR FORTH

   though seeing they may not see,though hearing they may not understand...


   beware the birds of the air..ye along the path..{Luke 8}



 

[Molly]

New International Version
As they were coming down the mountain, Jesus instructed them, "Don't tell anyone what you have seen, until the Son of Man has been raised from the dead."


It happens at the feast of tabernacles, which will be the fulfillment of the mystery of God.

5Then the angel whom I saw standing on the sea and on the land lifted up his right hand to heaven, 6and swore by Him who lives forever and ever, WHO CREATED HEAVEN AND THE THINGS IN IT, AND THE EARTH AND THE THINGS IN IT, AND THE SEA AND THE THINGS IN IT, that there will be delay no longer, 7but in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound, then the mystery of God is finished, as He preached to His servants the prophets.

--Rev 10:6

amen a finishing of the works of the earth.. then later, Rev 21:3 "And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God."

He will tabernacle with man on an Earth made new in a universe made new.. :banana: :cloud9:

Revelation 21:6
He said to me: "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To the thirsty I will give water without cost from the spring of the water of life.

Amen!   :banana: :banana: :banana:

The Return of the Lord

16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.

--1 Thess 4


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_Us_E551Z4

[Molly]

I think the whole thing was a preview of the coming eon

And that eon started shortly after the Mat 28:16 ?

I think the next eon starts when Christ returns.

http://www.saviourofall.org/charts/ChartOfJudgments.html

How old are "some standing here" now?

Matthew 16
28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

But if I drive out demons by the finger of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.

--Luke 11:20

[eaglesway]

 :2c:

We are the pioneer outpost of the kingdom of God which has come in part (in this age)and is coming fulness in the ages to come. "Sit thou at my right hand until I make all thine enemies a footstool for your feet". The last enemy if death. When death is subjected, God will be ALL IN ALL. When God is all in all- the kingdom will be complete throughout all creation.

In us the kingdom will be complete when God is "all in all"- in us, imo at the redemption of our bodies