I have been digging around on this alleged fall of Satan and discovered something extremely interesting....
I went on Bible Gateway and did a keyword search for Lucifer in every single English Translation. To my amazement I only found Lucifer in the following:
New King James
King James
21st Century St. James
Darby
The above four translations had only one mention of Lucifer and that was Isiah 14:12
One other translation "The Message" actually used Lucifer in Revelation 2:4.
Every single other translation came back "subject not found".
If this doesn't show you the inaccuracies of Bible translations, I don't know what will !!!!!!!
Almost everyone that I know, thinks that Satan's name is Lucifer and it appears that this is a bunch of made up b...s......
I feel sorry for anyone that happened to be named Lucifer because contrary to the fact that Lucifer is a "bright shining star" (which would be a pretty good thing to name your kid)...people would think that the parents named him a little devil !!!!!!
If anyone doesn't believe me...go to Bible Gateway and do the search for yourself !!!!!!
Speaking of translations.....can anyone recommend a good, computer accessible for free, translation.
I believe you SA :thumbsup:
I think it's beyond translation errors.
It's ramming doctrine down ones throat.
It's the job of those writing commentaries.
For tranlations I call it adding/removing from the word.
Quote from: Sally Anne on December 07, 2010, 11:34:55 PMI went on Bible Gateway and did a keyword search for Lucifer in every single English Translation. To my amazement I only found Lucifer in the following:
Lucifer is a good translation on itself. It's Latin. And when you say Latin you say Roman. And when you say Roman.... :winkgrin:
Lucifer is a Latin word (from the words lucem ferre), literally meaning "light-bearer", which in that language is used as a name for the dawn appearance of the planet Venus, heralding daylight. Use of the word in this sense is uncommon in English, in which "Day Star" or "Morning Star" or "The Star of the East" are more common expressions.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucifer
So the translation is not really wrong. But using it elsewhere is what's wrong.
I've even seen a view Jesus is Lucifer. Jesus is the light of the world. Lucifer means bringer of light. Jesus also brings light. And that basicly mean Jesus=Venus....
Quote from: Sally Anne on December 07, 2010, 11:34:55 PM
I have been digging around on this alleged fall of Satan and discovered something extremely interesting....
I went on Bible Gateway and did a keyword search for Lucifer in every single English Translation. To my amazement I only found Lucifer in the following:
New King James
King James
21st Century St. James
Darby
The above four translations had only one mention of Lucifer and that was Isiah 14:12
One other translation "The Message" actually used Lucifer in Revelation 2:4.
Every single other translation came back "subject not found".
If this doesn't show you the inaccuracies of Bible translations, I don't know what will !!!!!!!
Almost everyone that I know, thinks that Satan's name is Lucifer and it appears that this is a bunch of made up b...s......
I feel sorry for anyone that happened to be named Lucifer because contrary to the fact that Lucifer is a "bright shining star" (which would be a pretty good thing to name your kid)...people would think that the parents named him a little devil !!!!!!
If anyone doesn't believe me...go to Bible Gateway and do the search for yourself !!!!!!
Speaking of translations.....can anyone recommend a good, computer accessible for free, translation.
http://lookhigher.net/englishbibles/theleeserbible/genesis/1.html
Quote from: WhiteWings on December 07, 2010, 11:57:36 PM
Quote from: Sally Anne on December 07, 2010, 11:34:55 PMI went on Bible Gateway and did a keyword search for Lucifer in every single English Translation. To my amazement I only found Lucifer in the following:
Lucifer is a good translation on itself. It's Latin. And when you say Latin you say Roman. And when you say Roman.... :winkgrin:
Lucifer is a Latin word (from the words lucem ferre), literally meaning "light-bearer", which in that language is used as a name for the dawn appearance of the planet Venus, heralding daylight. Use of the word in this sense is uncommon in English, in which "Day Star" or "Morning Star" or "The Star of the East" are more common expressions.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucifer
So the translation is not really wrong. But using it elsewhere is what's wrong.
I've even seen a view Jesus is Lucifer. Jesus is the light of the world. Lucifer means bringer of light. Jesus also brings light. And that basicly mean Jesus=Venus....
Very true :thumbsup:
Thanks Micah and White Wings.....excellent information :ty:
Lucifer is the Latin name given to the Hebrew name Heylel ben Shachar which in English is The Shining One, son of the morning.
The name of Lucifer was first used by the early church fathers, Origen, Tertullian, and Jerome.
It was preserved by the translators of the King James Bible.
My :2c:
Hi there Sally Anne,
I believe that the King of Babylon was referred to as Lucifer. I'm not sure where the particular passage is but you could look at a concordance.
Godbless
Nancy
Isa. 13:6 eiliu Howl ye
Isa. 14:31 eili Howl
Isa. 15:2 iilil shall howl
Isa. 15:3 iilil shall howl
Isa. 16:7 iilil Howl
Isa. 16:7 iilil shall howl
Isa. 23:1 eililu Howl ye
Isa. 23:6 eililu Howl ye
Isa. 23:14 eililu Howl ye
Isa. 52:5 eililu make to howl
Isa. 65:14 eililu shall howl
Jer. 4:8 ueililu Howl
Jer. 25:34 eililu Howl
Jer. 47:2 ueill and shall howl
Jer. 48:20 eilili Howl
Jer. 48:31 ailil will I howl
Jer. 48:39 eililu They shall howl (Howl ye)
Jer. 49:3 eilili Howl (Howl ye)
Jer. 51:8 eililu howl
Ezek.30:2 eililu Howl ye
Hos. 7:14 iililu They howled
Joel 1:5 ueililu And howl
Joel 1:11 eililu howl
Joel 1:13 eililu And shall be howlings
Amos 8:1 ueililu and howl
Micah 1:8 uailile howl ye
Zeph. 1:11 aililu Howl
Zech.11:2 eill howl
Zech.11:2 eililu howl
Isa. 14:12 eill Lucifer (??)
I don't know what the word 'howl' is all about ww, but it looks like there is only one instance of the Hebrew word 'Heylel" showing up in the Old Testament.
Strong's H1966 - heylel הֵילֵל
Strong's Number H1966 matches the Hebrew הֵילֵל (heylel), which occurs 1 time in 1 verse in the Hebrew concordance of the KJV
Page 1 / 1 (Isa 14:12 - Isa 14:12)
Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen5307 from heaven8064, O Lucifer1966, son1121 of the morning7837 3213 ! [how] art thou cut down1438 to the ground776, which didst weaken2522 the nations1471!
Lucifer = "light-bearer"
1) shining one, morning star, Lucifer
a) of the king of Babylon and Satan (fig.)
CREATION OF LUCIFER
The name, "Lucifer" (KJV and NKJV), is a Latin word meaning the "shining one" or "light-bearer"; it appears in the Vulgate (Isa. 14:12) and translates a Hebrew word which means "Day Star" (ESV)—in the NIV the Hebrew word is translated as "morning star," and as "star of the morning" in the NASB.
Though the Hebrew term was never intended to be a proper name, it has come to be so regarded through the influence of Tertullian and Origen, who interpreted the passage in Isaiah as referring to Satan. Also, in Paradise Lost Milton used the word, "Lucifer," as a name for Satan. Therefore, "Lucifer" has become the popular and accepted name for Satan in his original position, applied to him from the time of his creation until his sin in heaven, after which he has been referred to as Satan and the Devil. It is interesting to note that this Latin term also has been used for the planet we know as Venus, one of the brightest objects in the night sky.
As with all creatures and all things, Lucifer's existence is the result of the creative act of God (see: Work of Creation); Day Star exists because God made him. This immediately distinguishes him from the Creator and causes him to be dependent upon the Creator—Day Star is a contingent creature. He is neither self-determined nor autonomous. It is good to be reminded of this when the Bible speaks of his power, for it is a power that is derived. Day Star is not the almighty one; his power is not infinite. Though his ability may be superior to that of man, his ability does not begin to compare to the Infinite; in fact, there is no comparison.
Tradition has assigned the creation of Lucifer to Ezekiel 28:11-15, a passage which seems to intermingle two topics, if indeed these verses report the creation of Lucifer. In the text "the prince of Tyre" is addressed by Ezekiel with "the word of the Lord" (v. 1), a word which confronts the prince with his claim that he is "a god" but which also informs him that "you are but a man, and no god" (v. 2). The word from God to the prince continues through the first ten verses of Chapter 28.
Then the subject delicately changes in verse 11. Instead of "the prince of Tyre," "the king of Tyre" is addressed, who is said to have been "in Eden" (v. 13); perhaps this is just a change of wording, or perhaps two subjects are interwoven and yet separate. What we have is conceivably a reference to the evil being behind the historical person; the descriptions seem to go beyond the mere earthly ruler to a spiritual ruler. The movement is from the historical ruler of Tyre to the unseen but very real and personal being behind his secular kingdom.
Many exegetes would reject the association of this passage, as well as Isaiah 14:12-15, with Lucifer, his creation and his fall respectively, and would limit both of them to Tyre and Babylon and their earthly rulers. But the association suggested in the above paragraph is worthy of consideration for several reasons.
First, it seems obvious that the passage is addressing more than just the leader of Tyre with such statements as: "full of wisdom," "perfect in beauty," "you were in Eden," "the day you were created," "you were an anointed guardian cherub," "you were on the holy mountain of God," "you were blameless in your ways," "your heart was proud because of your beauty," and "I cast you to the ground." Such statements suggest a greater being than just the human sovereign of Tyre; it is not inconceivable to entertain the possibility that the references are to the spiritual being behind the earthly ruler, namely Satan who is empowering the prince of Tyre.
In addressing the spiritual power behind the earthly power, God is revealing the profundity of evil that provides the basis for the position, character, and activity of the earthly ruler. The face of the ruler of Tyre conceals a more powerful and unseen face that empowers and directs him. The former is "the prince of Tyre" (v. 1), while the latter is "the king of Tyre" (v. 13). By addressing both, God is exposing the visible and the invisible evil. The lesson to be learned from this is that there is more to evil than meets the eye—the authentic evil is seldom visualized.
Second, there is an intimate association between Satan and world governments, for he is "the ruler of this world" (Jo. 12:31; see Ruler of this World). In the words of Augustine, this world system is the city of man and is dominated by sin and Satan. So, it should not be incomprehensible that in two passages relating to the epitomes of such a system, Tyre (Ezek. 28:1-15) and Babylon (Isa. 14:1-15), the text incorporates not only the earthly but the evil power behind the earthly.
Earthly kingdoms are not free from spiritual influence, perhaps this is much more than is usually accepted by the current secular culture; but it is the reality that is taught in Scripture. Daniel speaks of "the prince of the kingdom of Persia," an evil demon who opposed a lesser angel bringing a message to Daniel, but Michael the archangel finally confronted the demon and Daniel received the message (10:13). Behind the visible political power exists an invisible spiritual network of evil that energizes and directs the affairs of governments. Often the believer is caught up in the intrigue, as illustrated by Daniel, without knowing the magnitude of that which affects him.
On the individual level, the earthly conflict of the believer is a reflection of a greater conflict: "For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places" (Eph. 6:12). Our real enemy is not that which we see but that which we do not see; it is not primarily flesh and blood, but the invisible forces of evil that war against us and against God. If our eyes were opened like the eyes of the servant of Elisha we would see the comprehensiveness and magnitude of the evil that we face and the working of God to thwart the forces of evil (II Ki. 6:15-17).
Third, the association of the passage with Satan has ancient roots. While not the accepted interpretation by the Jews, Christian writers from the early centuries made the connection between these two passages and Satan. Historically, the identification can be traced back to Church Fathers, such as Tertullian in Against Marcion, Origen in De Principis and Against Clesus, and Jerome in his translation in the Vulgate.
Generally, Reformed thinkers disallow the association of the passages in Ezekiel and Isaiah with Satan; Calvin is emphatic as well as Hodge in their rejection, while Boice accepts the connection in Foundations as well as Erickson in his Christian Theology. But most modern commentaries deny that the origin and fall of Satan are found in Ezekiel and Isaiah respectively. In the popular mind, however, the assumption remains, and some commentaries reference the identification of Isaiah's account with Satan: "The passage transcends anything that can be said of an earthly king and has been understood from earliest times to also refer to Satan's fall as described in Luke 10:18" (Franz Delitzsch, Biblical Commentary on the Prophecies of Isaiah, 1875).
If Satan's creation is given by Ezekiel in Chapter 28, then he was created with the following characteristics:
intelligence – "full of wisdom," v. 12;
beauty – "perfect in beauty, v. 12, and "every precious stone was your covering," v. 13;
talent – "your timbrels and pipes," v. 13;
position – "the anointed cherub who covers," "you were on the holy mountain of God,"
and "you walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones," v. 14;
perfection – "the seal of perfection," v. 12, and "perfect in your ways," v. 15.
The time of Satan's creation, as well as the rest of the angelic world, is not specified in the Scriptures. It is usually accepted that the angels were created during the week of creation, perhaps on day one or day four, when the sun, moon, and stars were created; in the Law it affirms that in six days God created the heavens and the earth "and all that is in them" (Ex. 20:11). The "all" would include the material and the spiritual world, both the cosmos and the angelic host.
The existence of Satan is never a problem in the Scriptures; both Testaments speak of him, with the greater number of references being in the New Testament. In the two main divisions of the Canon, Satan is regarded as historical, with his historicity never questioned nor discussed; his existence is simply accepted.
In the Old Testament Satan is referenced in Gen. 3:1; Job 1:6-12; 2:1-7; I Chron. 21:1; Zech. 3:1-2; and possibly Ezek. 28:11-15; and Isa. 14:12-15.
In the New Testament, there are multiple references: Matt. 4:1; Lu. 10:18; Jo. 8:44; 12:31; II Cor. 11:14; Eph. 2:2; I Pet. 5:8; I Jo. 3:8; Rev. 12:3-4; and 20:2; these are just a sampling.
http://www.embracedbytruth.com/Sin/Reality%20of%20Satan/Creation%20of%20Lucifer.htm
Sister you need to get out of that "stuff."
I say that with all respect.
Did it ever occur to you that a latin word, name does not work into the Hebrew?
"I don't know what the word 'howl' is all about ww, but it looks like there is only one instance of the Hebrew word 'Heylel" showing up in the Old Testament." Molly
Look further in to the word "'Heylel"
Check out Lamsa, George. Isa. 14 and the word/name lucifer is a christian/religon hoax. Read the chapter. Ezk. 28 is just as fraile.
WW ...this is a serious question .Where do you guys get your knowledge about words and languages that were spoken like 3000 years ago ?Not anything against this ..infact i just want to have access to such knowledge aswell ,but where can it be attained ?
To the topic : It will be interesting if i could make some searches of this kind .This might reveal differencies between the translations .There might be differencies ,but what counts are the things that are in common and have no differencies .This might lead to some discoveries .
Quote from: SonicSpeed on December 09, 2010, 04:47:07 AM
WW ...this is a serious question .Where do you guys get your knowledge about words and languages that were spoken like 3000 years ago ?Not anything against this ..infact i just want to have access to such knowledge aswell ,but where can it be attained ?
To the topic : It will be interesting if i could make some searches of this kind .This might reveal differencies between the translations .There might be differencies ,but what counts are the things that are in common and have no differencies .This might lead to some discoveries .
My friend, get a shovel and a condordance, find a few other translations, check out sites and weight what you find in the Holy Spirit. Pray, seek His face. Work.
Love you my friend.
:thumbsup:
Quote from: WhiteWings on December 07, 2010, 11:57:36 PM
Quote from: Sally Anne on December 07, 2010, 11:34:55 PMI went on Bible Gateway and did a keyword search for Lucifer in every single English Translation. To my amazement I only found Lucifer in the following:
Lucifer is a good translation on itself. It's Latin. And when you say Latin you say Roman. And when you say Roman.... :winkgrin:
Indeed, it's the
only Latin word used in the O.T. :2c:
Now why is that? :wink:
Paul
why?
Cuz
lol
Now that's terse!
lol, gotta love it, Micah.
I just had a good laugh re-reading the other thread, and now this!
Quote from: Beloved Servant on December 09, 2010, 06:29:38 AM
Now that's terse!
lol, gotta love it, Micah.
I just had a good laugh re-reading the other thread, and now this!
Hey what other thread? And spread the humor. :bigGrin:
Your reply, #6, to Thinktank, in "The Bottomless Pit."
Quote from: Beloved Servant on December 09, 2010, 06:44:22 AM
Your reply, #6, to Thinktank, in "The Bottomless Pit."
I never replied in #6 that was Molly.
...just checked.
Yep, it was you, Micah.
...and still funny!
#6 « Reply #6 on: December 08, 2010, 12:58:55 AM »
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lucifer is the Latin name given to the Hebrew name Heylel ben Shachar which in English is The Shining One, son of the morning.
The name of Lucifer was first used by the early church fathers, Origen, Tertullian, and Jerome.
It was preserved by the translators of the King James Bible.
My
Thinktank aint on this post!
Not this thread, Micah.
The thread titled "The Bottomless Pit."
TVMIsa 14
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
Morning
Qere Readings
In the Hebrew Bible, the scribes did not alter any text they felt had been copied incorrectly. Rather they noted in the margin what they thought the written text should be. The written variation is called a kethiv and the marginal note is called the qere. Where the translators of the Authorised Version followed the kethiv reading rather than the qere, we indicate the qere reading by the number 08676. For example, in De 19:6 "blood" is coded as [H1818] 08676 [H5315]. The translators followed the kethiv reading that has Strong's number [H1818], which means "blood", but the qere reading is Strong's number [H5315], which means "life".
Kethiv meaning:
שׁחר
shachar
BDB Definition:
1) dawn
1a) dawn
1b) at dawn (as adverb)
Part of Speech: noun masculine
A Related Word by BDB/Strong's Number: from H7836
Same Word by TWOT Number: 2369a
Qere meaning:
ילל
yâlal
BDB Definition:
1) (Hiphil) to howl, wail, make a howling
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by BDB/Strong's Number: a primitive root
Same Word by TWOT Number: 868
Stem -Hiphil See [H8818]
Mood -Imperative See [H8810]
Count-731
Hiphil
a) Hiphil usually expresses the "causative" action of Qal-See [H8851]
Qal Hiphil
He ate he caused to eat, he fed
He came he caused to come, he brought
He reigned he made king, he crowned
b) Hiphil is often used to form verbs from nouns and adjectives.
Noun or Adjective Hiphil
ear to listen (lend an ear)
far to remove oneself, put far away
c) Some "simple" verbs are found in Hiphil.
to cast, to destroy, to get up early, to explain, to tell
The form accounts for 13.3% of the verbs parsed.
Imperative
This verb class indicates an order or a command.
Go up to the city.
Wash yourself.
Quote from: SonicSpeed on December 09, 2010, 04:47:07 AM
WW ...this is a serious question .Where do you guys get your knowledge about words and languages that were spoken like 3000 years ago ?Not anything against this ..infact i just want to have access to such knowledge aswell ,but where can it be attained ?
To the topic : It will be interesting if i could make some searches of this kind .This might reveal differencies between the translations .There might be differencies ,but what counts are the things that are in common and have no differencies .This might lead to some discoveries .
I don't have that knowledge. But I collect studies/knowledge of others. When I think it's relavant I just cut and paste it on this forum.
A great start, for me at least, is using some electonic lexicon. Either a website or a free program like theWord. Check the second link in my signature for a list to get you started.
The you can check the work of the author of that list. Ray Smith http://www.bibletruths.com/
Just take every verse listed and use software to "look below" the English word to find the Greek/Hebrew. That may sound difficult but actually it's very easy. You just read a KJV on your screen. Each word can be clicked and the program automaticly opens a lexicon. Depending on the software more things are possible.
For example if I Shift+click on the Hebrew word the software gives me a list of all verses containing that Hebrew word.
If you ask me: Get theWord as soon as you can. You will be up and running withing 30 minutes. As for the articles and books.... That takes many many hours to read. Personally I have a electronic notebook that serves as my memory.
If there is a power outage my knowledge is out too :icon_jokercolor:
:cloud9: WW, :thumbsup: to the tree......and great advice for our newbie....... :thumbsup:
Quote from: Cardinal on December 09, 2010, 06:23:33 PM
:cloud9: WW, :thumbsup: to the tree......and great advice for our newbie....... :thumbsup:
Just curious...... what do you see in that tree/picture?
I tried to put in various Biblical teachings. Or just one because afterall it's one big teaching.
/EDIT
SonicSpeed if you need help with setting up the software on that page ask me (in that thread)
Right now the link seems to be dead. Will be fixed soon I hope.
no roots = no life = no leaves to heal the nations.
Roots is one of the answers.
Leaves to heal the nations also but I never thought of that myself.... :sigh:
WhiteWings,
Whose alphabet is that?
It does not look Semitic, Hebrew, Egyptian, Phoenician or Greek.
Origen 185-254 A.D.
Origen Adamantius was an early Christian scholar, theologian, and one of the most distinguished of the early fathers of the Christian Church. According to tradition, he is held to have been an Egyptian who taught in Alexandria, reviving the Catechetical School of Alexandria where Clement of Alexandria had taught.
Using his knowledge of Hebrew, he produced a corrected Septuagint. He wrote commentaries on most of the books of the Bible. In De principiis (On First Principles), he articulated one of the first philosophical expositions of Christian doctrine.
Origen on Satan
This opinion, however, is held by most, that the devil was an angel, and that, having become an apostate, he induced as many of the angels as possible to fall away with himself, and these up to the present time are called his angels.
http://christian-quotes.ochristian.com/Origen-Quotes/
Tertullian on Satan
"By the devil, of course, to whom pertain those wiles which pervert the truth, and who, by the mystic rites of his
idols, vies even with the essential portions of the sacraments of God. He, too, baptizes some-that is, his own
believers and faithful followers he promises the putting away of sins by a layer (of his own). And if my memory
still serves me, Mithras there, (in the kingdom of Satan,) sets his marks on the foreheads of his soldiers,
celebrates also the oblation of bread, and introduces an image of a resurrection, and before a sword wreathes a
crown." Chapter 40 (XL)
"They cheat themselves with waters which are widowed. For washing is the channel through which they are
initiated into some sacred rites of some notorious Isis or Mithras... We recognise here also the zeal of the devil
rivalling the things of God, while we find him, too, practising baptism in his subjects. What similarity is there? The
unclean cleanses! The ruiner sets free! The damned absolves! He will, forsooth, destroy his own work, by
washing away the sins which himself inspires! These (remarks) have been set down by way of testimony against
such as reject the faith. If they put no trust in the things of God, the spurious imitations of which, in the case of
God's rival, they do trust in. Are there not other cases too, in which, without any sacrament, unclean spirits brood
on waters, in spurious imitation of that brooding of the Divine Spirit in the very beginning?" On Baptism Chapter 5
http://www.thedevineevidence.com/christian_quotes_tertullian.html
If we fight the Lord's battles merely by duplicating the way the world does its work, we are like little boys playing with wooden swords pretending they are in the battle while their big brothers are away in some distant bloody land.
Francis Schaeffer
Death in the City (Downers Grove, InterVarsity Press: 1969)
7And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
--Rev 12
There is a war going on. All talk of a Christian's right to live luxuriously "as a child of the King" in this atmosphere sounds hollow -- especially since the King himself is stripped for battle.
John Piper
1 Peter 1:13
Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
Quote from: Beloved Servant on December 09, 2010, 10:28:15 PM
WhiteWings,
Whose alphabet is that?
It does not look Semitic, Hebrew, Egyptian, Phoenician or Greek.
David,
To my best knowledge it's the very first Hebrew alphabet. Even before the paleo-Hebrew in my previous avatar.
It seems to be the alpabet all (in that region) are derived from.
http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/14_ahrcfonts.html
The fonts can be downloaded. I used Early Semitic in my avatar.
Now just let's hope my spelling is correct and I didn't wrote weird things in my avatar :laughing7:
PS there is also a much larger list that includes Phoenician and Egyptian. It's nice to see how the symbols change.
There is also a siet that show archeological pieces of paker and clay tablets with words in various alphabets on it.
Or should I say AlefBeths :winkgrin:
Language gave man both the potential [consciously and unconsciously] for good and evil, and the potential to talk one on one with his righteous LORD.
Genesis 46:2
And God spake unto Israel in the visions of the night, and said, Jacob, Jacob. And he said, Here am I.
6And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?
7If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.
--Gen 4
"at the door"
H6607
פּתח
pethach
peh'-thakh
From H6605; an opening (literally), that is, door (gate) or entrance way: - door, entering (in), entrance (-ry), gate, opening, place.
H6605
פּתח
pâthach
paw-thakh'
A primitive root; to open wide (literally or figuratively); specifically to loosen, begin, plough, carve: - appear, break forth, draw (out), let go free, (en-) grave (-n), loose (self), (be, beset) open (-ing), put off, ungird, unstop, have vent.
"DOOR"
dor: Most commonly the rendering of Hebrew pethach, "doorway," deleth, "door" proper (the two distinguished in Gen 19:6), or of Greek thura, which represents both meanings. The door proper was usually of wood, frequently sheeted with metal, sometimes of one slab of stone, as shown in excavations in the Hauran. It turned on pivots (the "hinges" of Prov 26:14) working in sockets above and below, and was provided with a bolt (2 Sam 13:17) or with lock and key (Jdg 3:23). The doorway was enclosed by the stone threshold (1 Ki 14:17), the two doorposts on either side, and the lintel above (Ex 12:7). Doors were frequently two-leaved, and folding ones are mentioned in connection with the temple (1 Ki 6:34). Where "door" is used in connectionwith city gates (Neh 3:1 ff) it refers to the door proper which swings on its hinges as distinguished from the whole structure. The custom of fastening to the doorposts small cases containing a parchment inscribed with the words of Dt 6:4-9; 11:13-21 had its origin in the command there given.
See also GATE; HOUSE.
Figurative: (1) Christ is "the door" into the gospel ministry (Jn 10:1,2,7); ministers must receive their authority from Him, and exercise it in His spirit. (2) `Through faith in Him also both shepherds and sheep enter into the kingdom of God (Jn 10:9), and find all their spiritual needs supplied.' (3) The figure in Rev 3:20 is expressive of Christ's patient, persistent and affectionate appeal to men. (4) Elsewhere also of opportunity (Mt 25:10; Acts 14:27; 1 Cor 16:9; 2 Cor 2:12; Rev 3:8). (5) Of freedom and power (Col 4:3).
See also ACHOR; SHEPHERD.
http://www.bible-history.com/isbe/D/DOOR/
Matthew 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Lucifer is a fact. Millions are sold each day :winkgrin:
(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/136/319564137_e0c02d0b8b.jpg)
Matches...with the body of a horned owl on the package?
Tertullian on eternal torment
"At that greatest of all spectacles, that last and eternal judgment how shall I admire, how laugh, how rejoice, how exult, when I behold so many proud monarchs groaning in the lowest abyss of darkness..."
:sigh: Doesn't sound very Christ-like to me.......
Quote from: Cardinal on December 13, 2010, 08:09:49 AM
:sigh: Doesn't sound very Christ-like to me.......
Although it's interesting to see he had the same problems we do with world leadership.
:laughing7:
[Charles waving from his limo to an angry mob that he has just pushed into the poorhouse with no way of escape--on his way to the theater, no less. Where does Satan find these characters?]
Quote from: Molly on December 13, 2010, 10:42:49 AM
Quote from: Cardinal on December 13, 2010, 08:09:49 AM
:sigh: Doesn't sound very Christ-like to me.......
Although it's interesting to see he had the same problems we do with world leadership.
:laughing7:
[Charles waving from his limo to an angry mob that he has just pushed into the poorhouse with no way of escape--on his way to the theater, no less. Where does Satan find these characters?]
And vice versa.
:cloud9: ?
Where do these characters find Satan ?
Quote from: Beloved Servant on December 13, 2010, 06:47:14 PM
Where do these characters find Satan ?
Crouching at the door.
6 Then the LORD said to Cain, "Why are you angry? Why is your face downcast? 7 If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must rule over it." And walking to and fro on the earth.
7 The LORD said to Satan, "Where have you come from?"
Satan answered the LORD,
"From roaming throughout the earth, going back and forth on it." --Job 1
I get the match one...in dutch matches are called lucifers
:cloud9: ok, I wondered...... :laughing7:
Quote from: onlytruth on December 14, 2010, 12:39:42 AMI get the match one...in dutch matches are called lucifers
:thumbsup:
:cloud9: Especially to a non-smoker like myself, and a Christian, I would crack up if I heard someone ask if they had a "Lucifer"......my first inclination would be to pounce on them in deliverance mode, roflol...... :laughing7: :icon_jokercolor:
Lucifer lives in hell becaue when the box is closed you don't see them :winkgrin:
:cloud9: :laughing7: