In the beginning

[micah7:9]

Deleted by Micah

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: That's a very good question, Micah......

[Beloved Servant]

A spirit and a network and it sits on the throne in the mind of every man.

Fascism
Communism
Advertising
Fashion
Rock and Roll

the list goes on and on and on — they call him Legion, for he is many.

[WhiteWings]

"In the beginning" is a very vague statement.
Beginning of what? I think the Bible is only about mankind (and the universe created for mankind)
To name one obvious thing Gen 1:1 was not about the begining of God Himself.
The creation account is about humans, animals, plants, sun, moon, etc
Only of those things we are told when they are created.
Other things could have been created 2 hours earlier or 2 billion years earlier.

So when we are told satan was a murderer from the beginning then was beginning is refered to?
The beginning as mentioned in Gen 1:1?
Or the creation of satan himselfs (if not part of the creation account)
I think we simply are not told.
Directly.....

We know that God created angels, and Job 38:6,7 gives us a little idea about when He created them. God is asking Job who he thought "laid the corner stone" of the earth or, in other words, "Job, who do you think created the earth?" But in the next verse God gives us a small look behind the scenes of creation. God told Job that when He created the world, "the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy,". God did not create the stars in heaven until the fourth day of creation. Right? Then how could the stars be there to praise God's handiwork if they had not even been created yet? Unless He was talking about someone else.
http://www.carpenterministry.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=80:discipleship-devotional-3&catid=46:discipleship-devotional&Itemid=71

[shawn]

Consider this.
The serpent of Gen. 3 is H5172 nâchash  A primitive root; properly to hiss, that is, whisper a (magic) spell; generally to prognosticate: -  X certainly, divine, enchanter, (use) X enchantment, learn by experience, (certainlly this was a learning and instruction for mankind.)
the serpent was subtil(cunning) and able to lie to the new and fresh mind of man, with ready desires as we see in Gen. 3:6 " And when the woman saw..." the flesh was a channel and weak. (James 1:14) We see the serpent, subtil, cunning transforming to the devil in the NT.
We read John. 8:44  "your father the devil" " lusts of your father" "He was a murderer" "no truth in him" " he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father thereof. "  The fact it reads, "your father, he, him" I contend relates to mankind/flesh,  man himself through the fact that man and his help-meet are flesh and as Paul writes...
Rom 7:18  For I know that in me, that is, in my flesh, dwelleth no good thing:
Rom 8:3  for what the law was not able to do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God, His own Son having sent in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, did condemn the sin in the flesh,
I believe the key words  here are LIKENESS OF SINFUL FLESH, man on the other hand IS SINFUL FLESH.
I do not believe that the flesh is the adversary, but I do reason that the flesh is the channel or trans-duct that is used, in and by the mind.  NT serpent is the Devil G1228 traducer, false accuser.


I am close to being convinced that the adversary is a spirit, not a being of any substance, but an entity of principality in the heavens being displayed on the earth in mankind(humanity.) 
I believe that this is the adversary,"Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall never be unto thee." Matt. 16:22

I think this is very strong study and reasoning.  This makes sense to me.

[shawn]

"In the beginning" is a very vague statement.
Beginning of what? I think the Bible is only about mankind (and the universe created for mankind)
To name one obvious thing Gen 1:1 was not about the begining of God Himself.
The creation account is about humans, animals, plants, sun, moon, etc
Only of those things we are told when they are created.
Other things could have been created 2 hours earlier or 2 billion years earlier.

So when we are told satan was a murderer from the beginning then was beginning is refered to?
The beginning as mentioned in Gen 1:1?
Or the creation of satan himselfs (if not part of the creation account)
I think we simply are not told.
Directly.....

We know that God created angels, and Job 38:6,7 gives us a little idea about when He created them. God is asking Job who he thought "laid the corner stone" of the earth or, in other words, "Job, who do you think created the earth?" But in the next verse God gives us a small look behind the scenes of creation. God told Job that when He created the world, "the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy,". God did not create the stars in heaven until the fourth day of creation. Right? Then how could the stars be there to praise God's handiwork if they had not even been created yet? Unless He was talking about someone else.
http://www.carpenterministry.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=80:discipleship-devotional-3&catid=46:discipleship-devotional&Itemid=71

I would have to agree.  I had always assumed that satan was created before the universe as their is no accounting of his creation in Genesis.  It seems like a reasonable deduction.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Some thoughts to ponder.....In the beginning (FIRSTFRUIT), God created the heavens (spirits/mind of Christ) and the earth (souls/glorified body). The mind of Christ and the glorified body is not something we receive, we already have them, but we must first meet the Lord of the harvest, and then go thru the tribulation of our souls, for them to be revealed.

Tribulation comes from the word tribulum, an instrument for threshing (removing the chaff) wheat (good seed/Christ in us, the hope of glory).

THE Firstfruit is a title of Christ, FROM whom there was not anything made (created) that was made. All things came from Christ (including the adversary, a tool) and will return to Christ.

The morning stars (HE is also called the morning star) are of His nature (Spirit) and as such are sons of God, ie. the SEEDS of God that came from the tree of life (Christ). God was IN CHRIST, reconciling all men unto Him. He was in Him, just like our natural father's DNA is in our own seed, His Seed is Christ. My  :2c: Blessings....

[WhiteWings]

It is my understanding that the advesary is "from the beginning" if this be so, the adversary "must be out from/out of Jesus Christ" for Jesus Christ is the Firstfruits [the beginning.]  Gen. 1:1

You could be right but I don't see proof for it.

You show a quote from Strong with a defenition of what beginning means.
I think it indirectly proves my point.
The beginning is not about Father because He has no beginning. So at least one is excluded from that beginning.
I think Jesus is also from before Gen 1:1. Another one excluded.
In Job we see the angels sang with joy during creation. Another group excluded.

So we know for sure who are included in Gen 1:1. Moon, stars, earth, sun, plants, animals mankind.
We also know some are from before Gen 1:1. Father for example.
Satan is called a snake. So it could be argued he's included in the animal creation. But I doubt that....

Maybe the creation account is not complete and God didn't tell us about everything He created.
Maybe. Maybe not. The problem with untold things is that it leads to assumptions. While an assumption can be right it can also be very wrong. If there is only one thing sure it would be that mankind was wrong from the beginning  :winkgrin:
Did you read this post?
It's about giants but I think it possibly gives some insight in this thread too.
:Peace2:

[WhiteWings]

:cloud9: Some thoughts to ponder.....In the beginning (FIRSTFRUIT), God created the heavens (spirits/mind of Christ) and the earth (souls/glorified body). The mind of Christ and the glorified body is not something we receive, we already have them, but we must first meet the Lord of the harvest, and then go thru the tribulation of our souls, for them to be revealed.

I hope this isn't ro much off-topic. If Micah thinks so ask for this post to be removed by a moderator.

I'm trying to mix and match all puzzle pieces.

Piece #1: The angels shouted with joy during creation.
Piece #2: Cardinal says 1/3 or the stars that are swept from heaven are the souls. -> For me that means 1/3 of myself.
Piece #3: Sinners are cast in the fire created for the devil and his angels.
Piece #4: NDEs are very clear we pre-existed. Verses also hint to that.
Piece #5: We are lowered (slowed down as opposed to quickend) into creation.

Did (part of) mankind sang during creation in a pre-existance form?
Is each and everyone of us a fallen angel.
If so that would simply mean the lowering (=let fall) of the angels was the creation (of Adam).
That still doesn't include the devil directly.
But I'm not sure the devil is a seperate entity at all. Maybe the devil is just a veil.

Very or extremely strange toughts? :mblush:

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Z4W2zfWq12M/Sx9Gay31ulI/AAAAAAAACHc/IS-lOQTjN74/s400/tick-bird.jpg)
Hairy tick out

[Beloved Servant]

Micah,
Does this somehow ring true?
That in the beginning we received from Christ the council of God which through our DNA (the twist) the carnal mind reasons (twists) the Truth in a lie.

Perhaps the first offspring of Adam and Eve are not simply Cain and Abel in the flesh, but also with them, the twisting hissing serpent that grows and grows into the dragon in the Book of Revelation.

For they became like gods when they "ate" of the forbidden tree.
The eyes of understanding shut.
And they produced deceiving spirits with each subsequent generation.

[WhiteWings]

Micah,

Can you explain this student what that study proves?
To be honest I have no clue what you are saying :mshock:

[Beloved Servant]

Serpent: Strong's H5175 - nachash, masculine noun.    Root: to breathe IN.

Mind: Strong's H5315, nephesh, feminine noun.           Root: to breathe OUT.

[micah7:9]

Micah,

Can you explain this student what that study proves?
To be honest I have no clue what you are saying :mshock:

Im sorry and apologize, I dont know either.

[WhiteWings]

Why did you remove your posts? :btantrum:ry:
I was asking about the post that was between Reply 9 and 10.
Not your OP!

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: You have to HAVE a topic to be off topic, and it looks like this one was deleted. Why, I don't know..... :dontknow:

But, while we are off topic, :ong: :eeew: that tick picture just grosses me out...... :mshock:

[micah7:9]

The tick. Not the picture and not the poster, just the tick.