Follow the law.

[Seth]

As I said, I understand your perspective, but I disagree.

:friendstu:

[eaglesway]

IMO, Jews according to the flesh, but without faith in Christ, still are the recipients of certain gracious promises given by God to natural Israel, "For all Israel shall be saved". For the moment, they are enemies of the gospel, but God is reconciling His enemies and even Esau and Ishmael are still inheritors, though their inheritance is waiting on the backside of kolassis(correction) in this age and to some extent as far as I can tell also in the age to come.

Unfaithed Jews have been pruned from the olive tree as I read Paul in Romans, but they can be grafted back in again by grace through faith. Abraham is the root of the olive tree.

Gal 3:6 Even so Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness. 7 Therefore,be sure that it is those who are of faith who are sons of Abraham. 8 The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, "All the nations will be blessed in you." 9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with Abraham, the believer........ 14 in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

The root is now the faith of Abraham, and it is in Christ Jesus, for the olive tree, and there is neither Jew or Gentile in Christ Jesus but a new creation. "Neither circumcision or uncircumcision is anything but a new creation."(Gal 6:15)

Many Jews who think they are still in the olive tree are not(imo) and many Christians who think they are in the olive tree also are not, because God knows those who are His and many will hear the words, "Depart from me I never knew you" because faith in Jesus involves Lordship- not just mental assent to His having existed and being alive, as James said, "You believe God is One? The devils believe also and tremble".

:2c:

Lordship, imo, is about yielding to the divine nature as branches in the True Vine.

2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless, the firm foundation of God stands, having this seal, "The Lord knows those who are His," and, "Everyone who names the name of the Lord is to abstain from wickedness."

The only way to abstain from wickedness is to walk in the Spirit.

[ed]

If you would like to read my debate on this..................this is the thread that I took the OP from.

http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1548411

[eaglesway]

wild and wooly :o)

[ed]

Is the law of liberty different from the Mosaic law?

James 2
8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:9 But if ye have respect to persons , ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. 10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For he that said , Do not commit adultery , said also, Do not kill . Now if thou commit no adultery , yet if thou kill , thou art become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak ye , and so do , as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

[rosered]

Is the law of liberty different from the Mosaic law?

James 2
8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:9 But if ye have respect to persons , ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. 10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For he that said , Do not commit adultery , said also, Do not kill . Now if thou commit no adultery , yet if thou kill , thou art become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak ye , and so do , as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

  Hi Ed , the   law of liberty  in Christ , we cannot abuse  or stumble anyone  where ever  they are at in the   faith

  weak , small , poor  , rich    etc   and  still  in sin   ,   if you are free from sin and yes this is possible with God   , I believe its being consciously aware all the time of sin and not free from it yet

some are still under the old covenant   of moses       and  are under the water baptism   [1st  the washing of the water of the word and its  temporary , it makes you more aware of sin   and need for repentance          as we notice sin increasing , lawlessness      no laws    and no obedience      to any law 
and the need for laws     to bring death      and a reality    for the man of sin  to be   done away with in Christ


    to me  and this is just me    Christ brings the   HOLY SPIRIT and Fire baptism   keeping the  man of sin  in a world of hurt   destroying those things   melting  those elements by the breath of His coming     sweeping the house , you are the temple of the Loving Living God       , while the new man , new creature in Christ     keeps the law     this one is without sin[new heavens  mind of Christ  and new earth body of Christ]    and   the Fire and Light of Gods presence   are dwelling   within  , the assembling  in the Body of Christ  Christ is also the head of the church, which is his body. ... And himself is the head of the body -- the assembly -- who is a beginning, a first-born out of the dead   and  are new and alive in Christ     the seed   /Word is living with in you     
everything  that come out of Christ will go back into Christ        , the man of sin  is dealt with  as Jesus comes to  cleanse    and claim His rightful place      the throne of your own heart      this seat / 1 Thess 5

we cannot judge or will be judged if that man of sin    within us    starts   to accuse     the brothers  &sister in the faith     till the man of sin is taken out of the way   

  all is the   process   and perfect work of God     ,    we are only here for a very short time       in these clay vessels     , when the rods of Iron[rods of correction ]   begin to break the clay  in shattered   pieces  and burst open the true natures  of both the    evil one  being exposed and the     holy one     also   we can begin to see  [tree of knowledge of good and evil]    just what has been  going on  for a long , long time      , before us and  during   and  long after , the vessels of wrath are always fitted for destruction    to be remade into something new and useful to the LORD and His purpose 

  This will make sense to only  some and will not ever make sense     to those still  being processed  by the mighty works of God
  we wait on the Lord       




8 This royal law [C because God the king decreed it, or because it is the supreme law] is found in the Scriptures: "Love your neighbor as you love yourself [Lev. 19:18; Matt. 22:37–40]."

·If you [or If you really; or If you, however,] ·obey [fulfill; carry out] this law, you are doing ·right [well].


9 But if you ·treat one person as being more important than another [show favoritism/partiality; 2:1], you are sinning. You are ·guilty of breaking God's law [L convicted by the law as lawbreakers/ transgressors].


10 [L For] A person who ·follows [keeps; obeys] all of God's law but ·fails to obey even one command [L stumbles/falls in one point] is guilty of breaking all the commands in that law.


11 [L For] The same God who said, "You must not ·be guilty of [commit] adultery [Ex. 20:14; Deut. 5:18]," also said, "You must not murder anyone [Ex. 20:13; Deut. 5:17]." So if you do not ·take part in [commit] adultery but you murder someone, ·you are guilty of breaking all of God's law [L you have become a breaker/transgressor of the law; Matt. 5:18–19; Gal. 5:3]. 12 ·In everything you say and do, remember that you [L So speak and so act as those who] will be judged by the law ·that makes people free [L of freedom/liberty].


13 ·So you must show mercy to others, or God will not show mercy to you when he judges you [L For judgment is without mercy to the one who does not act mercifully]. ·But the person who shows mercy can stand without fear at the judgment [L But mercy triumphs over judgment].

[eaglesway]

Yes. The law of liberty is the law transcendent love for God and man that comes by the Spirit and generates good attitudes and good works that magnify Jesus and glorify God. "It is the "new commandment".

IMO, It is the key to the salvation of all.

"Behold i make all things new"

"If any man be in Christ Jesus he is a new creation, old things pass away, behold all things become new." 2 Cor 5:17

"For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; because the creation itself also will be delivered(liberated/set free) from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now." Ro 8:19-22

"But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,  even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,  that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them". Eph 2:4-10

"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven." Matthew 5:16

"A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another." John 13:34, 35



This process of the reconciliation and restoration of all is converting the whole creation from hostility and futility into loving God and one another from the heart. That is the perfect law of liberty- love, honor, and faithfulness generated out of a freely given love for God. It is you "in Christ" and "Christ in you, the hope of glory".

To them God willed to make known what are the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles: which is Christ in you, the hope of glory. Col 1:27



Gal 4:21 Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law?  For it is written that Abraham had two sons: the one by a bondwoman, the other by a freewoman. But he who was of the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and he of the freewoman through promise, 24 which things are symbolic. For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar— 25 for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children— 26 but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all. 27 For it is written:

"Rejoice, O barren,
You who do not bear!
Break forth and shout,
You who are not in labor!
For the desolate has many more children
Than she who has a husband."

28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise. 29 But, as he who was born according to the flesh then persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, even so it is now. 30 Nevertheless what does the Scripture say? "Cast out the bondwoman and her son, for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman."31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman but of the free.

Those who are in Christ have died unto the law and made alive unto Christ.

[dajomaco]

If you think marching into the throne room and demanding,
that God do what you tell him to do is a Sin

Then every time you relate to God through the Law that is exactly what you are doing.
If you think that sounds evil imagine what it smells like.
Yes you would literally be stinking up the throne room.

If God showed you what you looked like through the eyes of the law you would die of embarrassment.

Grace and mercy a contrite heart are a sweet aroma.
We are a new creation with new sight lines.
We see brother and sister as sweet.

[Tom]

Is the law of liberty different from the Mosaic law?

James 2
8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:9 But if ye have respect to persons , ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. 10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For he that said , Do not commit adultery , said also, Do not kill . Now if thou commit no adultery , yet if thou kill , thou art become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak ye , and so do , as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

I think James is writing to those under the law, which we are not, but "love your associate as yourself," which Paul says fulfills the entire law, is actually found in the law (see the attachment). I don't think the "Mosaic law" could be called "liberty" by any stretch of the imagination. I think the law was given to the Jews to foreshadow Christ's sacrifice and to show them they couldn't save themselves, but Paul calls it "the yoke of slavery."

"the creation itself, also, shall be freed from the slavery of corruption into the glorious freedom of the children of God" (Romans 8:21)

"where the spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom" (2 Corinthians 3:17)

"For freedom Christ frees us! Stand firm, then, and be not again enthralled with the yoke of slavery." (Galatians 5:1)

[attachment deleted by admin]

[Seth]

Is the law of liberty different from the Mosaic law?

James 2
8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:9 But if ye have respect to persons , ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. 10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For he that said , Do not commit adultery , said also, Do not kill . Now if thou commit no adultery , yet if thou kill , thou art become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak ye , and so do , as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

He is definitely referencing the Mosaic Law, no question about it. But, I think the context is showing how that the Law was hung upon love, as Christ said.

James 1
19 This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; 20 for the anger of man does not achieve the righteousness of God. 21 Therefore, putting aside all filthiness and all that remains of wickedness, in humility receive the word implanted, which is able to save your souls. 22 But prove yourselves doers of the word, and not merely hearers who delude themselves.

James was clear that the implanted word is what saves our souls, from "filthiness and all that remains of wickedness," the word being written on our hearts by the Spirit. So, it's not following the letter that saves. James is pointing out that the "implanted word" ought to result in bringing us into natural conformity with the love upon which the Law was hung upon.

It's very similar to what Paul said and notice how similar the language is:

Romans 2
13 for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified. 14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them,

It's the same message. Walking in love ought to become a matter of instinct for those who have had the word implanted in their inward parts. So, even without the law, they walk in such a way that conforms to the law of liberty, freedom from sin.

This is what it means that he who loves has fulfilled the whole Law:

Romans 2
25 For indeed circumcision is of value if you practice the Law; but if you are a transgressor of the Law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision. 26 So if the uncircumcised man keeps the requirements of the Law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision?

In other words, if we love our neighbor, God regards that we have kept all the law, circumcision, tithing, Sabbath, hand washing etc. Those things are regarded by a God to be wrapped up in one which is to love. Circumcision is of the heart. Sabbath is of the heart. Washing is of the heart etc.

[eaglesway]

James may have been speaking to those under the law(but I think he was speaking to ALL who would read his words), but IMO he was not equating the law with the perfect law of liberty, which transcends the law. For this reason he uses the "royal law" as Jesus did, to explain how ALL the law is fulfilled in the prefect law of liberty, which is the royal law, love, and is fulfilled by the Spirit.

This is the same as Paul speaking of the "fruit of the Spirit" to the Galatians, who were being seduced back into lawkeeping for righteousness, saying "Against such(the fruit of the Spirit, there is NO LAW)

Ro. 5:5 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. 3 And not only that, but we also glory in tribulations, knowing that tribulation produces perseverance; 4 and perseverance, character; and character, hope. 5 Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

[ed]

Yeah, I was in a group that taught that same thing.

What do you renew your mind to?

Romans 12
2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

They taught that you renewed your mind to the Word of God.  It is a good teaching, but it is not talking about the written word of God.

If the written word was God's desire for us, then we go back to be lawyers and such, and we judge one another continually.

Breaking the law is deeper then the written law as well.  Breaking the law of love is higher then breaking the Mosaic written law.  It is disobedience to the very Spirit of God.

Be not conformed to this world is set in opposite to what we are to be conformed to.  We renew our minds to the kingdom of heaven that is present in the moment.  It is higher then following a written law.

If sin is breaking the law, we are no longer talking about the written law, but the law of liberty and the law of love the law of the Spirit.

Paul was the Apostle to the gentiles, and nowhere in all of Paul's writings does Paul tell us to follow the Mosaic law.

Following the Mosaic law is the Old Testament.  Sin was breaking that law in the Old testament.

Following Christ is the  New Testament.   It is higher and deeper and better then the old.  That is why the Old IS replaced.

This is great turmoil for those who don't want to change.  The turmoil is what Jesus was talking about in the Book of Matthew.  The kingdom of God was taken from the House of Israel, and given to the Christ from the House of Israel.

At this present moment we gentiles are not be following what was taken away, we are to be in the present reign, the body and bride of Christ.



The Mosaic law is the Old Testament.

The Law of Christ, liberty, and love is the New Testament.

New Testament believers are not following the Mosaic law, and we are not intentionally sinning.  For The New Testament believer Following Christ in His present reign is our desire and what we renew our mind to.



First off not all sin in the OT required the death Penalty.

The first sinner was Cain.   "sin is at the door, but you must master it".  Cain sinned, Cain did not master it, Cain lived on to a ripe old age.

Second, all of your trying to put the New Testament church under the Old Testament law is not what Paul was preaching.  Paul never tells us to follow the Mosaic law, not once ever.



Sin in the Old Testament is violation of the Mosaic law.

Sin in the New Testament is not following Christ.

As long as you continue to preach the Old Testament, you remain under its curse, you remain in death...........it is dead.

We follow the Spirit of  the new testament, and this is where life is, this is what we renew our minds to, and this is how we remain "IN HIM".





Disciples of Christ are not in the business of sinning at will.  Disciples of Christ are not under the Old Testament Law.




Not the Mosaic law Brasso.  The Mosaic law is the Old Testament.  Nowhere in the New Testament are we instructed to follow it or be under it.  It is a hard thing to loose your religion.  I see your struggle.  Lay down your heavy burden and put yourself in the place of rest, in Jesus Christ.

That is the New Testament.

Judaism against the world.  The struggle.  The loosing of the religion.  The replacing of the Old with the New.

:lifeandpeace:

[rosered]

Following the Mosaic law is the Old Testament.  Sin was breaking that law in the Old testament.

  Jesus went to be baptized   by John  to fulfill all righteousness  ,  this was to  show  us humility and repentance [fruits ] of the good  in the Law
Make the tree good and its fruit good or make the tree corrupt [evil] a tree is known by its fruits
  the Law  to me  knowledge     , It  is the tree of'' knowledge''    of good and evil    , how we react to    understanding   this knowledge     , this is how we learn     to hate evil  Psalms 93   

  this is fulfilled in Christ   according to the Law     


  9For You are the LORD Most High over all the earth; You are exalted far above all gods.


10Hate evil, you who love the LORD, Who preserves the souls of His godly ones; He delivers them from the hand of the wicked.


11Light is sown like seed for the righteous And gladness for the upright in heart.  now the new   expounding on the Old

    Romans 12:9 ASV

Let love be without hypocrisy. Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good.

[dajomaco]

To me the biggest problem with the Law,
is the effect my knowledge of the Law
has on my ability to Love my neighbor.

I could know my neighbor was a Law breaker.
Especially if I know more about the Law than I do about my neighbor.

Most of us are not Spiritual enough to be able to Love our neighbor,
while hating that he breaks the Law.
It is hard to hate evil and Love our neighbor when the Law makes them one. 

[Tom]

At this present moment we gentiles are not be following what was taken away, we are to be in the present reign, the body and bride of Christ.

"Now you are the body of Christ, and members of a part, whom also God, indeed, placed in the ecclesia, first, apostles, second, prophets, third, teachers, thereupon powers, thereupon graces of healing, supports, pilotage, species of languages." (1 Corinthians 12:27,28)

"And one of the seven messengers who have the seven bowls brimming with the last seven calamities came, and he speaks with me, saying, "Hither! I shall be showing you the bride, the wife of the Lambkin." And he carries me away, in spirit, on a mountain, huge and high, and shows me the holy city, Jerusalem, as it is descending out of heaven from God, having the glory from God." (Revelation 21:9,10)

http://concordant.org/expohtml/CorrectPartitioning/AreTheBrideAndBodyIdentical1.html

http://concordant.org/expohtml/CorrectPartitioning/AreWeTheBrideOfTheLamb.html

[rosered]

To me the biggest problem with the Law,
is the effect my knowledge of the Law
has on my ability to Love my neighbor.

I could know my neighbor was a Law breaker.
Especially if I know more about the Law than I do about my neighbor.

Most of us are not Spiritual enough to be able to Love our neighbor,
while hating that he breaks the Law.
It is hard to hate evil and Love our neighbor when the Law makes them one.

    Hey  Bro D ,
  That is the cool part  ,  when you hate evil   
Do you  want   evil  done to you ?     so in loving your neighbor  your really saying I don't want him to treat me    bad  so I will not treat him badly

  I have always thought its not fair to   say your neighbor  in the literal physical sense   of the guy across the street

  so much as it is to say your spiritual inner man  , The Word says     clean the inside  first
  so your   brother or  guy inside  needs to be treated as  descent    as the ol outer  first born man of the flesh right ?

    He is in charge till the new inner spiritual man   

  grows in enough truth and grace to   be  in charge

Its something I have thought of  before and its   

   when Jesus was asked  by a guy who wanted to justify himself     '' who is your neighbor '' ?

  and the parable of one whom a robber and thief   was mistreated

    Jesus  speaks of the strong man of the house too     

  both are examples    to me of the  battle  between the   carnal nature   man and spiritual nature    new      man  in Christ

[Seth]

To me the biggest problem with the Law,
is the effect my knowledge of the Law
has on my ability to Love my neighbor.

I could know my neighbor was a Law breaker.
Especially if I know more about the Law than I do about my neighbor.

Most of us are not Spiritual enough to be able to Love our neighbor,
while hating that he breaks the Law.
It is hard to hate evil and Love our neighbor when the Law makes them one.

To me, that makes the Law the problem rather than man. But Paul says in Romans 7 that the Law is holy and good. Therefore, the real problem has never been with the Law but with man. If man uses the Law to judge his neighbor, I see that as a continual problem with the carnal nature within him, not the Law itself. For as Paul said,

2 Tim 3:16
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness

If that is the case, then how could having knowledge of the Law be the problem in itself?

[dajomaco]

To me the biggest problem with the Law,
is the effect my knowledge of the Law
has on my ability to Love my neighbor.

I could know my neighbor was a Law breaker.
Especially if I know more about the Law than I do about my neighbor.

Most of us are not Spiritual enough to be able to Love our neighbor,
while hating that he breaks the Law.
It is hard to hate evil and Love our neighbor when the Law makes them one.

To me, that makes the Law the problem rather than man. But Paul says in Romans 7 that the Law is holy and good. Therefore, the real problem has never been with the Law but with man. If man uses the Law to judge his neighbor, I see that as a continual problem with the carnal nature within him, not the Law itself. For as Paul said,

2 Tim 3:16
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness

If that is the case, then how could having knowledge of the Law be the problem in itself?

How could the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, be a problem? 

[rosered]

To me the biggest problem with the Law,
is the effect my knowledge of the Law
has on my ability to Love my neighbor.

I could know my neighbor was a Law breaker.
Especially if I know more about the Law than I do about my neighbor.

Most of us are not Spiritual enough to be able to Love our neighbor,
while hating that he breaks the Law.
It is hard to hate evil and Love our neighbor when the Law makes them one.

To me, that makes the Law the problem rather than man. But Paul says in Romans 7 that the Law is holy and good. Therefore, the real problem has never been with the Law but with man. If man uses the Law to judge his neighbor, I see that as a continual problem with the carnal nature within him, not the Law itself. For as Paul said,

2 Tim 3:16
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness

If that is the case, then how could having knowledge of the Law be the problem in itself?

  Hi Seth and Daj

   Because  the spiritual man is  the only one that can  keep the law  :winkgrin:

  Roman s 8 ...6For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, [Mind of Christ]


7because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God;


for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so,


8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

  1 John 3  19
...8the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil.


9No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him;   



and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.


10By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious

  anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.

[Seth]

To me the biggest problem with the Law,
is the effect my knowledge of the Law
has on my ability to Love my neighbor.

I could know my neighbor was a Law breaker.
Especially if I know more about the Law than I do about my neighbor.

Most of us are not Spiritual enough to be able to Love our neighbor,
while hating that he breaks the Law.
It is hard to hate evil and Love our neighbor when the Law makes them one.

To me, that makes the Law the problem rather than man. But Paul says in Romans 7 that the Law is holy and good. Therefore, the real problem has never been with the Law but with man. If man uses the Law to judge his neighbor, I see that as a continual problem with the carnal nature within him, not the Law itself. For as Paul said,

2 Tim 3:16
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness

If that is the case, then how could having knowledge of the Law be the problem in itself?

How could the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, be a problem?

It wasn't a problem, for God himself said "they have become like us in knowing good and evil." It was the disobedience that was the problem.

[Seth]

To me the biggest problem with the Law,
is the effect my knowledge of the Law
has on my ability to Love my neighbor.

I could know my neighbor was a Law breaker.
Especially if I know more about the Law than I do about my neighbor.

Most of us are not Spiritual enough to be able to Love our neighbor,
while hating that he breaks the Law.
It is hard to hate evil and Love our neighbor when the Law makes them one.

To me, that makes the Law the problem rather than man. But Paul says in Romans 7 that the Law is holy and good. Therefore, the real problem has never been with the Law but with man. If man uses the Law to judge his neighbor, I see that as a continual problem with the carnal nature within him, not the Law itself. For as Paul said,

2 Tim 3:16
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness

If that is the case, then how could having knowledge of the Law be the problem in itself?

  Hi Seth and Daj

   Because  the spiritual man is  the only one that can  keep the law  :winkgrin:

  Roman s 8 ...6For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, [Mind of Christ]


7because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God;


for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so,


8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

  1 John 3  19
...8the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil.


9No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him;   



and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.


10By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious

  anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.

:iagree:

[dajomaco]

To me the biggest problem with the Law,
is the effect my knowledge of the Law
has on my ability to Love my neighbor.

I could know my neighbor was a Law breaker.
Especially if I know more about the Law than I do about my neighbor.

Most of us are not Spiritual enough to be able to Love our neighbor,
while hating that he breaks the Law.
It is hard to hate evil and Love our neighbor when the Law makes them one.

To me, that makes the Law the problem rather than man. But Paul says in Romans 7 that the Law is holy and good. Therefore, the real problem has never been with the Law but with man. If man uses the Law to judge his neighbor, I see that as a continual problem with the carnal nature within him, not the Law itself. For as Paul said,

2 Tim 3:16
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness

If that is the case, then how could having knowledge of the Law be the problem in itself?

How could the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, be a problem?

It wasn't a problem, for God himself said "they have become like us in knowing good and evil." It was the disobedience that was the problem.

The LORD God said, "Since man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil, he must not reach out, take from the tree of life, eat, and live forever."The problem 23 So the LORD God sent him away from the garden of Eden to work the ground from which he was taken.24 He drove man out and stationed the cherubim and the flaming, whirling sword east of the garden of Eden to guard the way to the tree of life.

[dajomaco]

Should we judge others as we judge ourselves.

[rosered]

  The natural man does not ever keep the law

   its the spiritual man that does
  seeing  the Christ in you and your   IN    your brother   ..
  some not born of God are really not your brother

  Consider  Luke 16  the Children of Light  are not as shrewd/clever /crafty     as  the children of this world /age when it come to  being wise in dealing with  their own kind     !!!               
   thus the warning be as wise as serpents   but as harmless as doves

  Luke 16:8Expanded Bible (EXB)

8 So, the master praised the ·dishonest [unrighteous; unjust] manager for being ·clever [shrewd; prudent].



Yes, ·worldly people [L the children of this age] are more ·clever [shrewd; prudent] with their own ·kind [contemporaries; generation] than ·spiritual people [L the children of light] are.





5 "So the manager called in everyone who owed the master any money. He asked the first one, 'How much do you owe [L my master]?' 6 He answered, 'Eight hundred gallons [C Greek: one hundred batoi; a batos was about eight gallons] of olive oil.' The manager said to him, 'Take your bill, sit down quickly, and write ·four hundred gallons [Greek: fifty (batoi)].' 7 Then the manager asked another one, 'How much do you owe?' He answered, '·One thousand bushels [Greek: one hundred koroi; a koros was about ten bushels] of wheat.' Then the manager said to him, 'Take your bill and write eight hundred bushels [C Greek: eighty (koroi)].' 8 So, the master praised the ·dishonest [unrighteous; unjust] manager for being ·clever [shrewd; prudent]. Yes, ·worldly people [L the children of this age] are more ·clever [shrewd; prudent] with their own ·kind [contemporaries; generation] than ·spiritual people [L the children of light] are.

9 "I tell you, make friends for yourselves using ·worldly riches [L the mammon/wealth of unrighteousness] so that when those riches ·are gone [fail; run out], you will be welcomed in ·those homes that continue forever [eternal dwellings/tents; C God's presence]. 10 Whoever ·can be trusted [is faithful] with a little ·can also be trusted [is also faithful] with a lot, and whoever is ·dishonest [unjust] with a little is ·dishonest [unjust] with a lot.\



11 If [L therefore] you ·cannot be trusted [have not been faithful] with ·worldly riches [L unrighteous mammon], then who will trust you with true riches? 12 And if you ·cannot be trusted [have not been faithful] with things that belong to someone else, who will give you things of your own?

13 "No servant can serve two ·masters [lords]. [L For] The servant will hate one master and love the other, or will ·follow [be devoted/loyal to] one master and ·refuse to follow [despise] the other. You cannot serve both God and ·worldly riches [money; L mammon]."

God's Law Cannot Be Changed
14 The Pharisees, who loved money, were listening to all these things and ·made fun of [derided; ridiculed] Jesus. 15 He said to them, "You ·make yourselves look good [justify yourselves] in front of people, but God knows what is really in your hearts. What is ·important to [exalted/esteemed by] people is ·hateful [detestable; an abomination] in God's sight.

16 "The law of Moses and the writings of the prophets [C the Old Testament] ·were preached [or were in force; L were] until John [C the Baptist] came [3:1–20; C John is the transitional figure between the age of promise and the age of salvation]. Since then the ·Good News [Gospel] about the kingdom of God is being ·told [preached; proclaimed], and everyone ·tries to enter it by force [or is eager to get into it; or is strongly urged to enter it]. 17 It would be easier for heaven and earth to ·pass away [disappear] than for ·the smallest part [L one stroke] of a letter in the law to ·be changed [drop out; Matt. 5:18; 11:12–13].[/b]


   For me the true test comes though the Law of Moses          to even be able to   come to Christ !

    Is this not the way everyone     Jew or Gentile   goes   though first ?

      Does not death come     first  from the letter of the Law     ?
 

    the body is dead because of sin and you must realize this first       before  Faith In Christ     COMES   though the Spirit    ,
  '

could this be the narrow path that lead to LIFE /CHRIST ?  tree of Life

[rosered]

Should we judge others as we judge ourselves.

  the natural man brother !!  is not born of God yet  is still      condemned with the world
1Corinth 11 ...31But if we judged ourselves rightly, we would not be judged.


32But when we are judged, we are disciplined by the Lord so that we will not be condemned along with the world.


33So then, my brethren, when you come together to eat, wait for one another.

when we eat His body and drink His Blood that we may have Life in us        we wait on one another to   come to the same place   [Christ in our midst ]

He does the correcting      with whom ever is  being   unruly    children 

    You ever baby sit for  children of all ages and stages ?
come  feeding time its a mess   none knows their place    and they all want to be waited on   first and   fuss and act out when they are not being    dealt with

   we took the  15 month old to the store   a bit ago and when he was not getting his way  he  rebelled     and acted up terribly     

  what did we do ?

  we asked him to not  be like that,  with a stare and    voice that     has  a  tone   that was not   pleasing   and he relented /decreased

  Just as the Law      as John  the baptist    whom  represents the Law and prophets in the SPIRIT OF ELIJAH      said    I must decrease  and the Lord Jesus must increase  ,   grace     abounds the more
  we  left the store with a good boy    quiet and humbled       , the law was in effect   but it was grace that   prevailed     prove more powerful than opposing forces    and persuaded