Every knee shall bow

[shawn]

I always remembered a verse stating every knee will bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.  But, when I looked it up I found two verses and neither read like that.  I read as should...not that they would.  Am I missing something?

[jabcat]

I'm certainly no linguist, but I found this from TM articles.  I think Gary may have written it.

According to Webster's Dictionary, the word "should" is the past tense of "shall." Now that is a much stronger term, isn't it? "Every tongue SHALL confess...." Much stronger in this form. However, it is true, in the English language, we do use the word "should" in a weaken form, that is to say, sometimes we use it as a substitute for the word "ought." "I really ought to buy a new pair of shoes, but I think I will wait."

So then, in what manner should we take this construction? Considering that the Bible declares the outcome of this passage, the answer is quite clear. In Revelation 5 we see a picture of the outcome of Jesus' work on earth:
Rev. 5:11-13
And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands; [12] Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing. [13] And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.
Please note, this Scripture is taken from the King James Bible, which of all translations, gives LEAST glory to Jesus Christ. And even in this translation, it is made quite plain EVERY creature in heaven, on earth, AND UNDER the earth was praising Jesus. We don't find the dishonoring forced knee bending some Hell-fire advocates inject into the picture nor the falling down like dead men as our Eternal Torture advocate would have us believe. We find adoration from every creature in the universe. The elders ALSO fell down and it wasn't as in Revelation 1:17. They were WORSHIPPING!

[jabcat]

In Isaiah 45:23, every translation listed on bible.cc says either 'shall' or 'doth' bow.   :thumbsup:

http://bible.cc/isaiah/45-23.htm

[jabcat]

Wow!  I have no idea who or "what" Barnes is, but looking at the commentary at the bottom of the page on the bible.cc link, Barnes' Commentary says this;

The obvious and proper signification of this is, that the time would come when God would be everywhere acknowledged as the true God. It refers therefore to the future period of glory on the earth, when all people shall have embraced the true religion, and when idolatry shall have come to an end.

Every tongue shall swear - This expression is evidently taken from the practice of taking an oath of allegiance to a sovereign, and here means that all would solemnly acknowledge him to be the true God, and submit themselves to his government and will. See the phrase explained in the the note at Isaiah 19:18. That this refers to the Messiah and his times, is apparent from the fact that it is twice referred to by the apostle Paul, and applied by him to the Lord Jesus and his religion Romans 14:11; Philippians 2:10. It is a glorious promise which remains yet to be fulfilled, and there is no promise in the Bible more certain than that this earth shall yet be filled with the knowledge of the true God.

[Paul Hazelwood]

I always remembered a verse stating every knee will bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.  But, when I looked it up I found two verses and neither read like that.  I read as should...not that they would.  Am I missing something?

Here is the definition for the word "exomologeo"  which gets translated to a few different words.

G1843  exomologeo  ex-om-ol-og-eh'-o

from G1537 and G3670;

to acknowledge or (by implication, of assent) agree fully:--confess, profess,
promise.

[WhiteWings]

In Isaiah 45:23, every translation listed on bible.cc says either 'shall' or 'doth' bow.   :thumbsup:

http://bible.cc/isaiah/45-23.htm

Many things Jesus said were often (almost) direct OT quotes. Many of His parables were used before He was born. So imo finding the OT variant gives a more 'pure' understanding of the meaning.

[WhiteWings]

^YLTRom 14
11 for it hath been written, `I live! saith the Lord--to Me bow shall every knee, and every tongue shall confess to God;'

^YLTPhil 2
10 that in the name of Jesus every knee may bow--of heavenlies, and earthlies, and what are under the earth--

May/shall/should/will are all 100% the same in Greek.

Shall bow is one word.

κάμπτω
kamptō
Thayer Definition:
1) to bend, bow, the knee (the knees)
1a) to one
1a1) in honour of one
1a2) in religious veneration
1b) used of worshippers
2) to bow one's self


Tense-Future    See [G5776]
Voice-Active    See [G5784]
Mood -Indicative    See [G5791]

Tense-Future

The future tense corresponds to the English future, and
indicates the contemplated or certain occurrence of an event
which has not yet occurred.

Voice-Active

The active voice represents the subject as the doer or
performer of the action.  e.g., in the sentence, "The
boy hit the ball, " the boy performs the action.

Mood-Indicative

The indicative mood is a simple statement of fact.  If an
action really occurs or has occurred or will occur, it will be
rendered in the indicative mood.

[WhiteWings]

^YLTIsa 45
23 By Myself I have sworn, Gone out from my mouth in righteousness hath a word, And it turneth not back, That to Me, bow doth every knee, every tongue swear.

כּרע
kâra‛
BDB Definition:
1) to bend, kneel, bow, bow down, sink down to one's knees, kneel down to rest (of animals), kneel in reverence
1a) (Qal)
1a1) to bow
1a2) to bow down, crouch
1a3) to bow down over
1a4) to tilt, lean
1b) (Hiphil) to cause to bow

Stem -Qal    See [H8851]
Mood -Imperfect    See [H8811]

Qal

Qal is the most frequently used verb pattern. It expresses the
"simple" or "causal" action of the root in the active voice.

Examples:
He sat,  he ate,  he went,  he said,  he rose,  he bought

This form accounts for 66.7% of the verbs parsed.


Imperfect

The imperfect expresses an action,  process or condition which is
incomplete,  and it has a wide range of meaning:

1a) It is used to describe a single (as opposed to a repeated) action
in the past; it differs from the perfect in being more vivid and
pictorial. The perfect expresses the "fact",  the imperfect adds
colour and movement by suggesting the "process" preliminary to its
completion.
He put forth his hand to the door
it came to a halt
I began to hear

1b) A phrase such as "What seekest thou?",  refers not only to the
present,  but assumes that the search has continued for some time.

Why do you weep?
Why refuse to eat?
Why are you distressed?

These relate not so much as to one occasion,  as to a
continued condition.

2) The kind of progression or imperfection and unfinished condition
of the action may consist in its frequent repetition.

2a) In the present:

it is "said" today
a wise son "maketh glad" his father

2b) In the past:

"and so he did"       -  regularly,  year by year
a mist "used to go up"
the fish which "we used to eat"
the manna "came down" -regularly
He "spoke"            -repeatedly

3) The imperfect is used to express the "future",  referring not only
to an action which is about to be accomplished but one which has
not yet begun:

3a) This may be a future from the point of view of the real
present; as:

Now "shalt thou    See what I will do"
"We will burn" thy house

3b) It may be a future from any other point of view assumed; as:
He took his son that "was to reign"
she stayed to    See what "should be done"

4) The usage of 3b may be taken as the transitive to a common use of
the imperfect in which it serves for an expression of those shades
of relation among acts and thoughts for which English prefers the
conditional moods. Such actions are strictly "future" in reference
to the assumed point of relation,  and the simple imperfect
sufficiently expresses them; e.g.

of every tree thou "mayest eat"
"could we know"
He "would" say

5a) The imperfect follows particles expressing "transition",
"purpose",  "result" and so forth as,  "in order that",  "lest"; e.g.

say thou art my sister,  "that it may be well with thee"
let us deal wisely with the nation,  "lest it multiplies"

5b) When however there is a strong feeling of "purpose",  or when it
is meant to be strongly marked,  then of course the moods are
employed; e.g.

raise me up "that I may requite them"
who will entice Ahab "that he may go up"
what shall we do "that the sea may be calm"

The moods are also employed to express that class of
future actions which we express in the "optative"

"may I die"
"may" the LORD "establish" his word
"may" the child "live".

[jabcat]

[May/shall/should/will are all 100% the same in Greek.

Shall bow is one word.

κάμπτω
kamptō

:thumbsup:

[micah7:9]

That is great WW!

[WhiteWings]

I should add that's according to Thayer.
If I check ISA2 there is 1 letter difference in between the Rom an Phil verse.

Thayer/Strong: kamptō + kamptō
ISA2: kampsE + kampsei

[legoman]

Yes Great stuff WW! 

Isa 45:22-23, Phil 2:9-11, & Romans 14:11 are the big three verses quoted saying that all will bow and confess.  Yes some translations say "should", but its all the same in the wash (as WW showed).  And there are many other verses than just these 3 that say the same thing, in different words:

Psalm 22:27 All the ends of the earth
   will remember and turn to the LORD,
and all the families of the nations
   will bow down before him,

Psalm 22:29 All the rich of the earth will feast and worship;
   all who go down to the dust will kneel before him—
   those who cannot keep themselves alive.

(who doesn't go down to the dust? ie. die)

Rev 5:13 Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, saying:
   "To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb
   be praise and honor and glory and power,
for ever and ever!"

(Everyone and everything will be worshiping and praising God joyfully)

Rev 15:4 Who will not fear you, Lord,
   and bring glory to your name?
For you alone are holy.
All nations will come
   and worship before you,
for your righteous acts have been revealed

(All will fear [revere] the Lord - all will worship Him - because they will have seen and understood His righteous acts).

Psalm 147:11 the LORD delights in those who fear him,
   who put their hope in his unfailing love.

(we just saw all will revere Him, and the Lord will delight in them)

Psalm 145:19 He fulfills the desires of those who fear him;
   he hears their cry and saves them.


Fear means reverence.  Reverence implies worship and bowing.  Fear leads to understanding (fear is the beginning of all wisdom) which leads to understanding love. Love leads to love overcoming fear (terror) which leads to salvation.  Its amazing how it all works out.

Read Psalm 66-67, Psalm 96-100, and many other Psalms continue on this theme.

[legoman]

Also might I add this:

Romans 14:12 So then, each of us will give an account of ourselves to God.

Does anyone think this verse is only referring to 'believers'?  No of course not - how often do we hear that everyone will have to account for what they have done.

Let me ask: what is an 'account'?  It is simply a retelling of what we have done.  It is a confession.  A confession of sin.  See where I'm going with this?  Everyone will confess the sins they have done to God.

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.

Summary:
- everyone will confess their sins
- those who confess their sins will be forgiven and purified from unrighteousness
- God is faithful to do this
So how many will be made righteous?

You do the math.   :winkgrin:

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9:  :thumbsup: And isn't it interesting that all the NDE's talk about seeing a review (give account) of their lives?

[WhiteWings]

Rev 15:4 Who will not fear you, Lord,
   and bring glory to your name?
For you alone are holy.
All nations will come
   and worship before you,
for your righteous acts have been revealed

(All will fear [revere] the Lord - all will worship Him - because they will have seen and understood His righteous acts).

fear, glorify,

Mood-Subjunctive

The subjunctive mood is the mood of possibility and
potentiality.  The action described may or may not occur,
depending upon circumstances.  Conditional sentences of the
third class ("ean" + the subjunctive) are all of this type, as
well as many commands following conditional purpose clauses,
such as those beginning with "hina."


come and worship
Mood -Indicative    See [G5791]

Mood-Indicative

The indicative mood is a simple statement of fact.  If an
action really occurs or has occurred or will occur, it will be
rendered in the indicative mood.

I find thata bit odd. I can understand some people don't fear God because the love Him.
But how can someone that doesn't glorifies not worship?

There are more "strange" things in this verse.
fear and glorify are aorist tense. The aorist tense is characterized by its emphasis on punctiliar action; that is, the concept of the verb is considered without regard for past, present, or future time.

But come and worship are both future tense. So at first reading this verse looks like it's all happening at the same moment.
But in reality the first part of teh verse could be 2345 years earlier.
(manifest is aorist too...)

If needed I can post all the tense, voice and mood info of verbs

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Here's a thought for you........in the spirit, we are ALL worshipping God. If you remember what I related once about the NDE's hearing music a lot of times, and the scientists discovering the crickets chirps at a previously unheard higher frequency made what sounded like a symphony, then it hit me that literally all of creation praises God, just like the Word states, ie. let everything that hath breath (spirit) praise the Lord.

That was a command that the creation obeys, because it's part of it's established order that was spoken into existance. So because the Lord spoke everything into existance, just like sound has vibrations, so too does the Spirit have a higher reality of what the natural displays. Blessings.....

[WhiteWings]

:cloud9: Here's a thought for you........in the spirit, we are ALL worshipping God. If you remember what I related once about the NDE's hearing music a lot of times,

Several NDEs, you?
Better don't tell anyone. I told my doctor I heard voices and am using Zotepine eversince  :laughing7:

we are ALL worshipping God

In that case I can ignore all verses of worshipping false gods?

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: No, I was referring to the NDE accounts I have read, plus the one my uncle had who spoke of hearing what sounding like a beautiful choir.

If we were LOWERED into this vanity, that means in the level of spirit, we are ALL serving His purposes. The veil of forgetfulness was put on us to make us forget our previous estate, so we COULD learn to choose the good and eschew evil by EXPERIENCE.

That's why so many of them report, seeing their lives second by second (the soul is the recorder) and then being told their work was not done, what they came to do that they hadn't done yet, ect. There was no condemnation to those who saw these things, only personal remorse at the bad things they had done. There is no condemnation to those that are IN Christ Jesus (read Spirit here). They are caught up in the Spirit at that moment, and so there become aware of (most for the first time) no condemnation.

It's always been there, but their awareness is not because of where they are spiritually while in the flesh body. so until the bondages of the flesh are "suspended" they are unaware of no condemnation in the Spirit. Essentially pressing in while still in the body IS "knowing" (to be one with) as we are known (in the Spirit). Blessings.....

[thinktank]

But I don't see any scripture to support what you said. It might sound nice and good but there is no scripture to back up the claims of an NDER.

Jesus said to believe on me to have everlasting life. Most Nders do not believe in Jesus and don't know who he is.

I think possibly the God they are seing is the devil, who wants to be worshipped as God, and they go to his part in heaven.
This explains why the god they see is completely different to each of them, for the devil transforms himself into an angel of light and that angel of light could be anything.

[Paul Hazelwood]

But I don't see any scripture to support what you said. It might sound nice and good but there is no scripture to back up the claims of an NDER.

Jesus said to believe on me to have everlasting life. Most Nders do not believe in Jesus and don't know who he is.

I think possibly the God they are seing is the devil, who wants to be worshipped as God, and they go to his part in heaven.
This explains why the god they see is completely different to each of them, for the devil transforms himself into an angel of light and that angel of light could be anything.

While NDE's perhaps indeed do have little scriptural support, I would say that then there is as little if not even less to support the idea that they have met the devil any more than me and you have met the devil because we will have met God differently.

[Nathan]

Jeeze Paul . . .that was really good!!!

[thinktank]

Yes, it doesn't have to be the devil, it could be their own imagination, just like in a dream.
Nathan will like this one or at least prefer it over the devil idea.. it could be their subconcious mind, the deep part of their mind that projects these preconceived ideas of who God is and what he looks like, so a buddist idea of God would be budda, so their god might not be the devil as such, but their own ideas of who God is.
:2c:

[Nathan]

Yes, it doesn't have to be the devil, it could be their own imagination, just like in a dream.
Nathan will like this one or at least prefer it over the devil idea.. it could be their subconcious mind, the deep part of their mind that projects these preconceived ideas of who God is and what he looks like, so a buddist idea of God would be budda, so their god might not be the devil as such, but their own ideas of who God is.
:2c:

You're soooooo close to the edge on this . . . .you really need to take the plunge!!!
Devil = traducer . . .which means "acuser" which is what YOUR MIND does.  It's accusational by nature.  And in the subconscious depths, beyond the awareness of your "self" it creates images (thus, imaginations manifest) and because your conscious side never saw the image before, it assumes it's a real experience . . .but the truth is . . .it's merely a projection from the depths of the bottomless pit of man's mind that brought it to the surface.

[Taffy]

Yes, it doesn't have to be the devil, it could be their own imagination, just like in a dream.
Nathan will like this one or at least prefer it over the devil idea.. it could be their subconcious mind, the deep part of their mind that projects these preconceived ideas of who God is and what he looks like, so a buddist idea of God would be budda, so their god might not be the devil as such, but their own ideas of who God is.
:2c:

You're soooooo close to the edge on this . . . .you really need to take the plunge!!!
Devil = traducer . . .which means "acuser" which is what YOUR MIND does.  It's accusational by nature.  And in the subconscious depths, beyond the awareness of your "self" it creates images (thus, imaginations manifest) and because your conscious side never saw the image before, it assumes it's a real experience . . .but the truth is . . .it's merely a projection from the depths of the bottomless pit of man's mind that brought it to the surface.

:icon_flower:

[Nathan]

OOOOOOH . . .looky at the pretty flower!!  Can I pick it????