I saw a local billboard sign for a local church. Cost is about $1,000. per month for that location.
The billboard said that "God believes in you"
Does he? does he "trust in adhere to or rely on us. Any Ideas on what this message means?
For a grand a month I wonder how many people visit. I don't plan to. Would you think God would be a better steward of the money to help others? I'm interested in ya'alls thoughts.
A lot of money, but it might get through to some people, even if the theology is questionable. :dunno2:
These scriptures speak of "the faith of Jesus" or "the faith of Christ." Surely He had (and has) faith. Some of it is that He believe in us or He wouldn't have done what He did for us. It's all of a piece, along with His faith in God, doing what He knew was His Father's will.
It seems our believing is distinct from Jesus' faith in the following:
Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God [which is] by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Gal 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
Listen to that in the Concordant Literal:
22 But the scripture locks up all together under sin, that the promise out of Jesus Christ's faith may be given to those who are believing.
Phl 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
I believe Christ's faith was in God. As Paul said, "In my flesh dwells no good thing". It is God in us through Christ, "Christ in you the hope of glory", that is the source of our hope. Even Jesus said, "Of my own self I can do nothing". Demonstrating, imo, that all was done through God in Him, and so it is with us, that God is our sufficiency and the Alpha to Omega of our renewal. The dust returns to dust, Only the Spirit profits- the second Adam was a "quickening spirit", the first just has to die and return to dust. :o)
Quote from: eaglesway on February 24, 2013, 08:33:51 AM
I believe Christ's faith was in God. As Paul said, "In my flesh dwells no good thing". It is God in us through Christ, "Christ in you the hope of glory", that is the source of our hope. Even Jesus said, "Of my own self I can do nothing". Demonstrating, imo, that all was done through God in Him, and so it is with us, that God is our sufficiency and the Alpha to Omega of our renewal. The dust returns to dust, Only the Spirit profits- the second Adam was a "quickening spirit", the first just has to die and return to dust. :o)
These words speak to my heart with indescribable joy. :HeartThrob:
Joy unspeakable and full of Glory :o)
Hi,
First, what Eaglesway said. Secondly, IMO, no, pursuant to definition by you, Ded2daworld. Sounds more like a coach to a team. Perhaps semantics thing?
For one large $$$$$, would love to see message that would bring many of the hurt, self proclaimed atheists and agnostics and searchers, into a group of loving brothers and sisters, gathered in the Lord's name. Not good with catchy slogans at all, so wonder what a UR sign would look like?
Peace.
I put it up there because I don't believe that "God believes in you"
He knows us, he knows we are sinners, he knows we can't save ourselves, he knows he can't depend on us to always do right, he knows we harbor non-loving thoughts of others at times in our hearts, he knows we are rebellious, etc.
When we believe in God, it means we trust God to always do right, we rely on Him and his word for our very existence and spiritual growth from his word, we adhere to him by walking as he walked, imitating him, asking God to conform us to his image.
So when someone says "God believes in you" I really have no clue what they mean and I wonder if they do.
Ded2DaWorld, just one person, but agree with you. With this: trust in adhere to or rely on us, as definition you set (agree with you by the way), do not understand it either.
To me it sounds New Agey/Dharmic like on fringe perhaps. Could see how could resonate with many. Guess with internally focused stimuli all around us saying, "Believe in the Father as Jesus did for a much better (peaceful, loving, not material) life now and in the future; come in and join us", the church people thought that sign was better???
I was thinking "Jesus loves you" or God loves you" but that is probably considered too generic, Like, "YOU are special to God - just like everyone else"
The atheists and Pagans I know always add or say, "yeah, Jesus loves me... and if I don't love him back he'll torture me for all eternity for not loving or even believing in someone I've never felt or seen". I can't blame them. It was the exact same argument I used when I was an atheist and religious people would tell me that. Since I was only approached by ET people, that stopped most of them except the ones that would say, "but if you just admit you're a sinner and trust him he will save you from hell" (they couldn't say eternal torture) My answer (then) "So I should be grateful he will save me from a place of torture that he himself created? No thanks."
Hi,
You know Ded and others, Ded's response right here is just one of the reasons think this forum is special. Just seems like intent here with members is assumed to be good first and questioned second. In ET world, my simple response could have been attacked on a number of grounds based on what I believe is their focus on their doctrine uber alles. As if God needs protected.
Think what you say is so true and better said than how I was trying to articulate. Soooo many dear people are turned off by this lie. Hope someday UR is not seen as heresy but seen for what it is. Maybe more people would not be mentally tortured in the here and now.
Thanks.
What come to mind when reading your Original post Ded was
Proverbs 7 she is the the strange woman [Babylon church ] that is looking for simple ones to invite into her house , by way of the sign , you would have to read the whole chapter 7 to help with the description of the seduction and this sounds like bait to me ''God believes in You ''
last verses ESV PRO7
With much seductive speech she persuades him;
with her smooth talk she compels him.
22 All at once he follows her,
as an ox goes to the slaughter,
or as a stag is caught fast[e]
23 till an arrow pierces its liver;
as a bird rushes into a snare;
he does not know that it will cost him his life.
24 And now, O sons, listen to me,
and be attentive to the words of my mouth.
25 Let not your heart turn aside to her ways;
do not stray into her paths,
26 for many a victim has she laid low,
and all her slain are a mighty throng.
27 Her house is the way to Sheol,
going down to the chambers of death
Quote from: Rich on February 26, 2013, 04:06:53 PM
Hi,
You know Ded and others, Ded's response right here is just one of the reasons think this forum is special. Just seems like intent here with members is assumed to be good first and questioned second. In ET world, my simple response could have been attacked on a number of grounds based on what I believe is their focus on their doctrine uber alles. As if God needs protected.
Think what you say is so true and better said than how I was trying to articulate. Soooo many dear people are turned off by this lie. Hope someday UR is not seen as heresy but seen for what it is. Maybe more people would not be mentally tortured in the here and now.
Thanks.
Rich I agree we are all most tormented by our thoughts of our condition of being inadequate when it comes to sin in our lives
the new Covenant in Jesus Christ shows us and UR especially just how Big God is and how it is though Jesus Christ , not of our own doings , this is what helped me so much during the long transition , between ET and UR doctrine /teaching , it was mostly perception on how to read scriptures that tormented me in the way of flooding thoughhts , the above and below voices we hear and try to process in our minds :thumbsup:
:dsunny: Rosered. This brightens day.
Thanks.
What Rosered posted got me to thinking about the cults. Everyone of them has a "dirty little secret" that a person doesn't find out about till they are "in"... WAY in. Whether it's God living on a planet in the Pliaedes star system, there being no afterlife at all, men becoming Gods, no blood transfusions, no reality, etc. every cult has something they don't mention to potential converts until the person is "in the faith"
ET churches are getting more and more like that - they are hiding a dirty little secret about eternal torture if someone doesn't do what "they" say needs to be done.
Quote from: Rich on February 26, 2013, 04:31:36 PM
:dsunny: Rosered. This brightens day.
Thanks.
And you have mine Rich :dsunny:
I can so relate to your posts!
we are prisoners in our own minds[ Babylon means confusion by mixing ] till Jesus comes and captures every thought and sets us free :HeartThrob: Thankful for the salvation in Christ that gives true peace within , not tormented by the above and below voices of mixing ...We hear JESUS voice as many waters [born from above ]we are as compared to sheep and follow Him , Our Good Shepherd .
2Cr 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and
bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ Gods plan is Lovely and pure and Holy and we dwell on and in these things with our minds being purified by the burning Love of Jesus Christ within our hearts /minds
Phl 4:8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things [are] honest, whatsoever things [are] just, whatsoever things [are] pure, whatsoever things [are] lovely, whatsoever things [are] of good report; if [there be] any virtue, and if [there be] any praise,
think on these things. :HeartThrob:
Quote from: ded2daworld on February 26, 2013, 04:41:46 PM
What Rosered posted got me to thinking about the cults. Everyone of them has a "dirty little secret" that a person doesn't find out about till they are "in"... WAY in. Whether it's God living on a planet in the Pliaedes star system, there being no afterlife at all, men becoming Gods, no blood transfusions, no reality, etc. every cult has something they don't mention to potential converts until the person is "in the faith"
ET churches are getting more and more like that - they are hiding a dirty little secret about eternal torture if someone doesn't do what "they" say needs to be done.
Ded , if they have faith in Christ Jesus being the perfect Lamb of God , its already a done deal , the covenenat with death has been annulled , if only they can believe and obey , the Word by His Spirit , the power of God to overcome hell and death
I always considered Isaiah the prophet a great writing , it was the first time when reading the Bible I understood a glimpse , if you will of something very Holy and real, begining to work salvation in ALL our lives :dsunny: The Son / Sun has risen to a new Day with Light and knowledge of the Lord
Isaiah is a book of tearing down the Lies of the false prophets as with many other books in the Word , that has blessed many along the way
Isa 28:18 And your covenant with death shall be disannulled,
and your agreement with hell shall not stand;
when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.
here is the kicker , when we are in that mind set of torture of hell and death on everyone else and some how we are saved by Gods grace , thats when the true terror comes on us , trying so hard to stay right with God and we become worn out and fake trying to do the law of God , when we really find out its ONLY THOUGH JESUS CHRIST we can accomplish this salvation by trusting in Him and not of ourselves does the true peace of Christ come , its a hard and pressing process to come though ..
more of the ESV Isaiah 28 that explains well what happens
A Cornerstone in Zion
14 Therefore hear the word of the Lord, you scoffers,
who rule this people in Jerusalem!
15 Because you have said, "We have made a covenant with death,
and with Sheol we have an agreement,
when the overwhelming whip passes through
it will not come to us,
for we have made lies our refuge,
and in falsehood we have taken shelter";
16 therefore thus says the Lord God,
"Behold, I am the one who has laid[c] as a foundation in Zion,
a stone, a tested stone,
a precious cornerstone, of a sure foundation:
'Whoever believes will not be in haste.'
17 And I will make justice the line,
and righteousness the plumb line;
and hail will sweep away the refuge of lies,
and waters will overwhelm the shelter."
18 Then your covenant with death will be annulled,
and your agreement with Sheol will not stand;
when the overwhelming scourge passes through,
you will be beaten down by it.
19 As often as it passes through it will take you;
for morning by morning it will pass through,
by day and by night;
and it will be sheer terror to understand the message.
remember the Lord chastens whom he loves and are whipped into shape !
Hbr 12:6 For whom the Lord loves he chastens, and scourges every son whom he receives .
Hi, Ded, think your last paragraph and then think just as example of strong COC folk. Know so many people from God's only true church who have been tortured so.
Rosered, going to think long on your first paragraph. For me, much in that. Thank you.
If God didn't believe in you He wouldn't mess with you in the first place. He wouldn't give us His gifts if He didn't trust in and rely on us to properly use, appreciate and perfect them. Actually, from a slightly different perspective, we wouldn't even exist if God didn't believe in us.
Here's a follow up from the billboard ad. (Click to enlarge)
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Nice message that, Jeff! I just love to see arguments turned on their heads.
Let's hope God is at least an Agnostic when it comes to some of us!
Actually, I didn't like the sign for it implies God does not love them(atheists)
He created them, they are temporarily atheists, they still exist and He loves them.
I'd Like, "God loves you whether you believe He exists or not."
ded, I think it's just a comment on atheist's reasons to be atheists.
Although .... when you think about it ... The only things which exist are the things which God created. If God doesn't believe in atheists, and didn't create any, then even those who profess to be atheists, couldn't be, because God didn't create any. Therefore, those who think they are atheists can't be and aren't. Their non-existence (as atheists), as it were, came about because God didn't believe in atheism.
I get that the sign is turning a popular argument on its head, but it could have a truth inside it as well.
Maybe I need more caffeine. lol
Quote from: VineBranch on March 06, 2013, 06:22:15 AM
Maybe I need more caffeine. lol
Maybe less... :laughing7:
The question: "Does God believe in us" I think is answered quite well in one of Gary Amirault's articles on Tentmakers website dealing with Bible translations...DRAT, I have read so many wonderful articles I can't point you to the specific one, althought I think it is the lengthy http://www.tentmaker.org/Biblematters/bestbibletranslation.htm.
The point I gleaned from Gary's article is simple and to the point - Since God hasn't given up on any of us, why are giving up?
And the reason God hasn't given up is because He loves and BELIEVES IN US.
Understand all, just my read on the article, my opinion.
But, food for thought? :footmouth:
If atheists don't believe in God then why do they argue so much about what (a) God could possibly have done?
I do believe God believes in us.So much so that 2Pe 3:9 the Lord is not slow in regard to the promise, as certain count slowness, but is long-suffering to us, not counselling any to be lost but all to pass on to reformation,
:dsunny:
I think it depends on what is meant by the word "believe"
Does God believe in us. Many seem to think so.
But if by believe you mean "trust in, adhere to, rely on"
I don't believe God "believes" in us at all. Jesus "didn't trust them because he knew their minds" and we all start out as enemies of God, and we are brought to him and changed by him because we can't be "trusted in, relied on, or adhered to."
Quick question ded2daworld please: IF a clay pot maker didn't believe in the clay pot he was making for a certain purpose, WHY then would he make it?
Perhaps a better way to couch the discussion would be to say God believes in His PLAN for us.
Because Dave, God or anybody doesn't make a clay pot to "trust in rely on or adhere to" they make a clay pot to be used. When people make a clay pot there is little, if any emotion involved. With God, he loves us, the clay pots he makes and shapes us for his own use. :Peace2:
IMO a clay pot maker (? potterer?) most certainly trusts and relies in his workmanship, especially if it were to hold precious matter (couldn't think of anything that sounded good :laughing7: -you know the solid gas liquid stuff) More so IF he used it for his own use and didn't try to sluff off some junk on the market IMO
Quote from: Dave Corum on March 06, 2013, 10:32:24 PM
IMO a clay pot maker (? potterer?) most certainly trusts and relies in his workmanship, especially if it were to hold precious matter (couldn't think of anything that sounded good :laughing7: -you know the solid gas liquid stuff) More so IF he used it for his own use and didn't try to sluff off some junk on the market IMO
Sorry Dave, that doesn't answer your own question. Deb gave an answer and you deflected to wormanship.
I want everyone to note, I didn't ask Dave if he meant a clay pot-maker, or a clay-pot maker. That would have been foolish. :URWelcome:
Quote from: VineBranch on March 07, 2013, 06:32:59 AM
Quote from: Dave Corum on March 06, 2013, 10:32:24 PM
IMO a clay pot maker (? potterer?) most certainly trusts and relies in his workmanship, especially if it were to hold precious matter (couldn't think of anything that sounded good :laughing7: -you know the solid gas liquid stuff) More so IF he used it for his own use and didn't try to sluff off some junk on the market IMO
Sorry Dave, that doesn't answer your own question. Deb gave an answer and you deflected to wormanship.
I want everyone to note, I didn't ask Dave if he meant a clay pot-maker, or a clay-pot maker. That would have been foolish. :URWelcome:
I did a lot of code work in the Navy, but you have me baffled by what you wrote here.
Yet with due dilligence, I just might crack your cyrptic words. :Chinscratch:
Or, IMO, you could aid your humble brother by telling me what it is your trying to say.
Thanking you in advance. :sigh:
Quote from: Dave Corum on March 07, 2013, 06:45:59 PM
Quote from: VineBranch on March 07, 2013, 06:32:59 AM
Quote from: Dave Corum on March 06, 2013, 10:32:24 PM
IMO a clay pot maker (? potterer?) most certainly trusts and relies in his workmanship, especially if it were to hold precious matter (couldn't think of anything that sounded good :laughing7: -you know the solid gas liquid stuff) More so IF he used it for his own use and didn't try to sluff off some junk on the market IMO
Sorry Dave, that doesn't answer your own question. Deb gave an answer and you deflected to wormanship.
I want everyone to note, I didn't ask Dave if he meant a clay pot-maker, or a clay-pot maker. That would have been foolish. :URWelcome:
I did a lot of code work in the Navy, but you have me baffled by what you wrote here.
Yet with due dilligence, I just might crack your cyrptic words. :Chinscratch:
Or, IMO, you could aid your humble brother by telling me what it is your trying to say.
Thanking you in advance. :sigh:
The quoted posts above could have been better written. Watch the spelling, the grammar, the way you put forth your ideas. Are we trying to communicate here, or not? Above all, think first, then post. <puts on asbestos suit>
Quote from: Lazarus Short on March 07, 2013, 07:23:33 PM
Quote from: Dave Corum on March 07, 2013, 06:45:59 PM
Quote from: VineBranch on March 07, 2013, 06:32:59 AM
Quote from: Dave Corum on March 06, 2013, 10:32:24 PM
IMO a clay pot maker (? potterer?) most certainly trusts and relies in his workmanship, especially if it were to hold precious matter (couldn't think of anything that sounded good :laughing7: -you know the solid gas liquid stuff) More so IF he used it for his own use and didn't try to sluff off some junk on the market IMO
Sorry Dave, that doesn't answer your own question. Deb gave an answer and you deflected to wormanship.
I want everyone to note, I didn't ask Dave if he meant a clay pot-maker, or a clay-pot maker. That would have been foolish. :URWelcome:
I did a lot of code work in the Navy, but you have me baffled by what you wrote here.
Yet with due dilligence, I just might crack your cyrptic words. :Chinscratch:
Or, IMO, you could aid your humble brother by telling me what it is your trying to say.
Thanking you in advance. :sigh:
The quoted posts above could have been better written. Watch the spelling, the grammar, the way you put forth your ideas. Are we trying to communicate here, or not? Above all, think first, then post. <puts on asbestos suit>
It would certainly cause me no offense if you grasp what we are trying to say and rewrite for a better understanding, cause I'm getting lost :dontknow:
Yeah, I'm a bit lost too - this thread has become a babblefield. :laughing7:
Quote from: Lazarus Short on March 07, 2013, 07:41:36 PM
Yeah, I'm a bit lost too - this thread has become a babblefield. :laughing7:
We do seem to have quite a bit of wandering away from the scripture and UR/spiritual issues lately (not everyone, but seems a poster or two just sort of encourage things to wander around in irrelevancy to the board's purpose). Could we focus in a little more please?
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son...