Does God believe in us?

[ded2daworld]

I saw a local billboard sign for a local church. Cost is about $1,000. per month for that location.
The billboard said that "God believes in you"
Does he? does he "trust in adhere to or rely on us. Any Ideas on what this message means?
For a grand a month I wonder how many people visit. I don't plan to. Would you think God would be a better steward of the money to help others? I'm interested in ya'alls thoughts.

[Lazarus Short]

A lot of money, but it might get through to some people, even if the theology is questionable.  :dunno2:

[reFORMer]

These scriptures speak of "the faith of Jesus" or "the faith of Christ."  Surely He had (and has) faith.  Some of it is that He believe in us or He wouldn't have done what He did for us.  It's all of a piece, along with His faith in God, doing what He knew was His Father's will.

It seems our believing is distinct from Jesus' faith in the following:
Rom 3:22    Even the righteousness of God [which is] by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Gal 2:16    Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Gal 3:22    But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
Listen to that in the Concordant Literal:
22 But the scripture locks up all together under sin, that the promise out of Jesus Christ's faith may be given to those who are believing.

Phl 3:9    And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

Rev 14:12    Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

[eaglesway]

I believe Christ's faith was in God. As Paul said, "In my flesh dwells no good thing". It is God in us through Christ, "Christ in you the hope of glory", that is the source of our hope. Even Jesus said, "Of my own self I can do nothing". Demonstrating, imo, that all was done through God in Him, and so it is with us, that God is our sufficiency and the Alpha to Omega of our renewal. The dust returns to dust, Only the Spirit profits- the second Adam was a "quickening spirit", the first just has to die and return to dust. :o)

[misszoolander]

I believe Christ's faith was in God. As Paul said, "In my flesh dwells no good thing". It is God in us through Christ, "Christ in you the hope of glory", that is the source of our hope. Even Jesus said, "Of my own self I can do nothing". Demonstrating, imo, that all was done through God in Him, and so it is with us, that God is our sufficiency and the Alpha to Omega of our renewal. The dust returns to dust, Only the Spirit profits- the second Adam was a "quickening spirit", the first just has to die and return to dust. :o)

These words speak to my heart with indescribable joy.  :HeartThrob:

[eaglesway]

Joy unspeakable and full of Glory :o)

[Rich]

Hi,
First, what Eaglesway said.  Secondly, IMO, no, pursuant to definition by you, Ded2daworld.  Sounds more like a coach to a team.  Perhaps semantics thing?

For one large $$$$$, would love to see message that would bring many of the hurt, self proclaimed atheists and agnostics and searchers, into a group of loving brothers and sisters, gathered in the Lord's name.  Not good with catchy slogans at all, so wonder what a UR sign would look like?
Peace.

[ded2daworld]

I put it up there because I don't believe that "God believes in you"
He knows us, he knows we are sinners, he knows we can't save ourselves, he knows he can't depend on us to always do right, he knows we harbor non-loving thoughts of others at times in our hearts, he knows we are rebellious, etc.

When we believe in God, it means we trust God to always do right, we rely on Him and his word for our very existence and spiritual growth from his word, we adhere to him by walking as he walked, imitating him, asking God to conform us to his image.

So when someone says "God believes in you" I really have no clue what they mean and I wonder if they do.

[Rich]

Ded2DaWorld, just one person, but agree with you.  With this:  trust in adhere to or rely on us, as definition you set (agree with you by the way), do not understand it either. 

To me it sounds New Agey/Dharmic like on fringe perhaps.  Could see how could resonate with many.  Guess with internally focused stimuli all around us saying, "Believe in the Father as Jesus did for a much better (peaceful, loving, not material) life now and in the future; come in and join us", the church people thought that sign was better???

[ded2daworld]

I was thinking "Jesus loves you" or God loves you" but that is probably considered too generic, Like, "YOU are special to God - just like everyone else"
The atheists and Pagans I know always add or say, "yeah, Jesus loves me... and if I don't love him back he'll torture me for all eternity for not loving or even believing in someone I've never felt or seen". I can't blame them. It was the exact same argument I used when I was an atheist and religious people would tell me that. Since I was only approached by ET people, that stopped most of them except the ones that would say, "but if you just admit you're a sinner and trust him he will save you from hell" (they couldn't say eternal torture) My answer (then) "So I should be grateful he will save me from a place of torture that he himself created? No thanks."

[Rich]

Hi,
You know Ded and others, Ded's response right here is just one of the reasons think this forum is special.  Just seems like intent here with members is assumed to be good first and questioned second.  In ET world, my simple response could have been attacked on a number of grounds based on what I believe is their focus on their doctrine uber alles.  As if God needs protected.

Think what you say is so true and better said than how I was trying to articulate.  Soooo many dear people are turned off by this lie.  Hope someday UR is not seen as heresy but seen for what it is.  Maybe more people would not be mentally tortured in the here and now.

Thanks.

[rosered]

 


What come  to mind  when reading your Original post Ded   was
Proverbs 7 she is the  the strange woman [Babylon church ]  that is looking  for simple ones to invite into her house   , by way of the sign , you would have to read the whole  chapter 7  to  help with the description of the seduction    and this  sounds like bait to me    ''God believes in You ''



  last verses   ESV PRO7



With much seductive speech she persuades him;
    with her smooth talk she compels him.
22 All at once he follows her,
    as an ox goes to the slaughter,
or as a stag is caught fast[e]
23     till an arrow pierces its liver;
as a bird rushes into a snare;
    he does not know that it will cost him his life.

24 And now, O sons, listen to me,
    and be attentive to the words of my mouth.
25 Let not your heart turn aside to her ways;
    do not stray into her paths,
26 for many a victim has she laid low,
    and all her slain are a mighty throng.
27 Her house is the way to Sheol,
    going down to the chambers of death

[rosered]

Hi,
You know Ded and others, Ded's response right here is just one of the reasons think this forum is special.  Just seems like intent here with members is assumed to be good first and questioned second.  In ET world, my simple response could have been attacked on a number of grounds based on what I believe is their focus on their doctrine uber alles.  As if God needs protected.

Think what you say is so true and better said than how I was trying to articulate.  Soooo many dear people are turned off by this lie.  Hope someday UR is not seen as heresy but seen for what it is.  Maybe more people would not be mentally tortured in the here and now.

Thanks.

Rich   I agree we are all most tormented by  our thoughts of  our  condition of being inadequate    when it comes to sin  in our lives 

   the new Covenant in   Jesus Christ shows us   and UR  especially   just  how Big God  is and how it is though Jesus Christ  , not of our own doings    , this is what helped me so much during the long transition ,  between   ET and UR   doctrine /teaching   , it was mostly    perception on how to read scriptures    that tormented     me in the way of flooding thoughhts     , the  above and below   voices we hear   and try to process  in our minds  :thumbsup:

[Rich]

 :dsunny: Rosered.  This brightens day.

Thanks.

[ded2daworld]

What Rosered posted got me to thinking about the cults. Everyone of them has a "dirty little secret" that a person doesn't find out about till they are "in"... WAY in. Whether it's God living on a planet in the Pliaedes star system, there being no afterlife at all, men becoming Gods, no blood transfusions, no reality, etc. every cult has something they don't mention to potential converts until the person is "in the faith"
ET churches are getting more and more like that - they are hiding a dirty little secret about eternal torture if someone doesn't do what "they" say needs to be done.

[rosered]

:dsunny: Rosered.  This brightens day.

Thanks.

And you have mine  Rich  :dsunny:

I can so relate to your posts!

  we are prisoners in our own minds[ Babylon means confusion by mixing ]  till Jesus comes and captures every thought  and sets us free  :HeartThrob:  Thankful for the salvation  in Christ  that  gives true peace within  , not tormented by the above and below voices of mixing ...We hear JESUS voice as many waters [born from above ]we are   as compared   to sheep and follow Him , Our Good Shepherd .

2Cr 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ 

  Gods plan is Lovely and pure  and Holy and we dwell on and in these things   with our minds being purified by the burning Love of Jesus Christ  within our hearts /minds     

Phl 4:8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things [are] honest, whatsoever things [are] just, whatsoever things [are] pure, whatsoever things [are] lovely, whatsoever things [are] of good report; if [there be] any virtue, and if [there be] any praise, think on these things.    :HeartThrob:

[rosered]

What Rosered posted got me to thinking about the cults. Everyone of them has a "dirty little secret" that a person doesn't find out about till they are "in"... WAY in. Whether it's God living on a planet in the Pliaedes star system, there being no afterlife at all, men becoming Gods, no blood transfusions, no reality, etc. every cult has something they don't mention to potential converts until the person is "in the faith"
ET churches are getting more and more like that - they are hiding a dirty little secret about eternal torture if someone doesn't do what "they" say needs to be done.

Ded , if they have faith in Christ Jesus being the perfect Lamb of God , its already a done  deal , the covenenat with  death  has been annulled   , if only they can believe and obey  ,    the Word by   His Spirit  , the power of God to overcome  hell and death 

  I always considered Isaiah   the prophet a great  writing , it was the first time when reading the Bible I understood    a glimpse , if you will  of something very Holy and real,  begining  to work salvation  in  ALL  our lives   :dsunny:  The Son / Sun has risen to a new Day   with Light and knowledge of the Lord
   Isaiah is  a  book of   tearing  down the Lies of the false prophets   as with many other books in the Word  , that has blessed many along the way 

Isa 28:18 And your covenant with death shall be disannulled,

and your agreement with hell shall not stand;

  when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.

  here is the kicker , when we are  in that mind set of torture   of hell and death   on everyone  else and some how we are saved by Gods grace ,   thats when the true terror  comes on us , trying so hard to stay right with God and we become  worn out and  fake trying to  do     the law of God ,   when we really find out its ONLY THOUGH JESUS CHRIST  we can accomplish  this salvation    by  trusting in Him and not of ourselves does the true peace of Christ come  , its a  hard and pressing process to  come though .. 
  more of the ESV    Isaiah 28      that explains well   what happens     
A Cornerstone in Zion
14 Therefore hear the word of the Lord, you scoffers,
    who rule this people in Jerusalem!
15 Because you have said, "We have made a covenant with death,
    and with Sheol we have an agreement,
when the overwhelming whip passes through
    it will not come to us,
for we have made lies our refuge,
    and in falsehood we have taken shelter";
16 therefore thus says the Lord God,
"Behold, I am the one who has laid[c] as a foundation in Zion,
    a stone, a tested stone,
a precious cornerstone, of a sure foundation:
    'Whoever believes will not be in haste.'
17 And I will make justice the line,
    and righteousness the plumb line;
and hail will sweep away the refuge of lies,
    and waters will overwhelm the shelter."
18 Then your covenant with death will be annulled,
    and your agreement with Sheol will not stand;
when the overwhelming scourge passes through,
    you will be beaten down by it.
19 As often as it passes through it will take you;
    for morning by morning it will pass through,
    by day and by night;
and it will be sheer terror to understand the message.

  remember the Lord chastens whom he loves   and are whipped into shape  !

Hbr 12:6 For whom the Lord loves he chastens, and scourges  every son whom he receives .

[Rich]

Hi, Ded, think your last paragraph and then think just as example of strong COC folk.  Know so many people from God's only true church who have been tortured so.

Rosered, going to think long on your first paragraph.  For me, much in that.  Thank you.

[reFORMer]

If God didn't believe in you He wouldn't mess with you in the first place.  He wouldn't give us His gifts if He didn't trust in and rely on us to properly use, appreciate and perfect them.  Actually, from a slightly different perspective, we wouldn't even exist if God didn't believe in us.

[ded2daworld]

Here's a follow up from the billboard ad. (Click to enlarge)

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[Lazarus Short]

Nice message that, Jeff!  I just love to see arguments turned on their heads.

[VineBranch]

Let's hope God is at least an Agnostic when it comes to some of us!

[ded2daworld]

Actually, I didn't like the sign for it implies God does not love them(atheists)
He created them, they are temporarily atheists, they still exist and He loves them.

I'd Like, "God loves you whether you believe He exists or not."

[Lazarus Short]

ded, I think it's just a comment on atheist's reasons to be atheists.

[VineBranch]

Although .... when you think about it ... The only things which exist are the things which God created.  If God doesn't believe in atheists, and didn't create any, then even those who profess to be atheists, couldn't be, because God didn't create any.  Therefore, those who think they are atheists can't be and aren't.  Their  non-existence (as atheists), as it were, came about because God didn't believe in atheism.

I get that the sign is turning a popular argument on its head, but it could have a truth inside it as well.

Maybe I need more caffeine. lol