Do you celebrate Christmas?

[marie glen]

Mostly, I would want to have a strict Sabbath every Friday evening to Saturday evening(slightly different topic, yet the same?)

But in order to do that would be to inconvenience my husband. Which I am not willing to do. I also would love to be a vegetarian but that would cost us two grocery budgets and I am not the bread winner.

I think of Christmas as family time. I don't see family enough and I would hate to give up any of it i have. But I don't think I think about or love the Lord any more or less than on any other day..

Sheila, I loved your responses. :thumbsup:  :thumbsup: They covered the whole range of law vs grace so very well.. "mix law with grace and you are fallen from grace" and I think that's because it robs grace of its power (to work and transform).

Not to say we can't follow our conscience in some matters - concerning things like foods and days. If I decide I can no longer eat defenseless animals raised in captivity to be killed, that's I'm sure quite all right. If someone asks me, I can share with them my personal conviction. But I believe that's as far as I should go. "Let each one be fully persuaded in their own mind".. not weakening a brother or sister's conscience or freedom of conscience on such..

...I gave up worrying about what someone else does or doesn't do a long time ago. Maybe the Lord prefers I not eat whatever, and another to not join in on holidays confiscated by christendom from pagan observance.. But I think we do it for our self, to think we do it for Him, I think, is a dangerous thing.. for all our righteousness is as "filthy rags"..

..I actually enjoy this topic. I think it's an important one which many struggle with. I'm into freedom! For myself and for others. It's the Spirit of the Lord which changed and changes us and keeps us on His good moral path. Liberty, of course, not license. Smile! I can't hit 'smile' on this little iPhone! :)

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: An interesting dilemma is now facing me. This is NOT pointed at anyone on this board, it's an ongoing situation off the board. The SPIRIT told me (and my daughter, BEFORE me) not to eat pork anymore). Yet if I tell someone, it seems they automatically start the discussion on being under grace and not law. So tell me: if the Spirit tells you, doesn't that make it fall under grace, since as many as are led of the Spirit are the sons of God, regardless of what part of scripture it's fulfilling? Anybody see my point? Blessings....

[sheila]

Bex,if the spirit tells you,obey..you are associating with Messianic jews........the spirit once told me to throw a handfull of flour in a pot.

  and the evil spirits would dissipate...it's not the flour..it's not the pig.it's doing what the Holy spirit says at that moment.

[GodIsLove]

.it's not the flour..it's not the pig.it's doing what the Holy spirit says at that moment.

m

Yes! I think there could be a reason the HS is convicting someone of something in that period of time in their life but the mistake would be for that person to then tell everyone around them they have to do the same.

This topic initially bothered me but it's now fascinating me to see these responses, Sheila and Marie and everyone else.

[Seth]

:cloud9: An interesting dilemma is now facing me. This is NOT pointed at anyone on this board, it's an ongoing situation off the board. The SPIRIT told me (and my daughter, BEFORE me) not to eat pork anymore). Yet if I tell someone, it seems they automatically start the discussion on being under grace and not law. So tell me: if the Spirit tells you, doesn't that make it fall under grace, since as many as are led of the Spirit are the sons of God, regardless of what part of scripture it's fulfilling? Anybody see my point? Blessings....

To me, it doesn't even have to be a dilemma. As long as you are doing what you feel led to do, it shouldn't be a problem for them; as long as you aren't putting it on them to join your restriction. It's really none of their business.

[rosered]

.it's not the flour..it's not the pig.it's doing what the Holy spirit says at that moment.

m

Yes! I think there could be a reason the HS is convicting someone of something in that period of time in their life but the mistake would be for that person to then tell everyone around them they have to do the same.

This topic initially bothered me but it's now fascinating me to see these responses, Sheila and Marie and everyone else.

  I as well   GodIslove ,  Hear the many  ways  to consider and think about ,  except just one way   ..

   That I believe  is beneficial    , considering one another   ..
  I learned  a lot also   and value   , the  Judas  thread     , so many more ways and things to consider   , than  just one way  that , '' being mine own opinion''


   Truly the Body of Christ is  a many membered

  Romans 12

Living Sacrifices
...4For just as we have many members in one body and all the members do not have the same function,


5so we, who are many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of another.

6Since we have gifts that differ according to the grace given to us, each of us is to exercise them accordingly:

if prophecy, according to the proportion of his faith;...
     

[jabcat]

:cloud9: An interesting dilemma is now facing me. This is NOT pointed at anyone on this board, it's an ongoing situation off the board. The SPIRIT told me (and my daughter, BEFORE me) not to eat pork anymore). Yet if I tell someone, it seems they automatically start the discussion on being under grace and not law. So tell me: if the Spirit tells you, doesn't that make it fall under grace, since as many as are led of the Spirit are the sons of God, regardless of what part of scripture it's fulfilling? Anybody see my point? Blessings....

To me, it doesn't even have to be a dilemma. As long as you are doing what you feel led to do, it shouldn't be a problem for them; as long as you aren't putting it on them to join your restriction. It's really none of their business.

I agree with sheila, including who you're currently associating with ("all things to all men" - respect) and what seth says here. if you're sure it's the Holy Spirit, then there's a good reason, even if only for a season/specific purpose.  blessings.

[Shev]

This is a great discussion, with some really interesting perspectives on all sides!

I have kind of a left-field question for those who do celebrate Xmas. I guess this is a follow up to the "all things are permissible" theme. In your view, does this therefore logically extend to other days and seasons such as Halloween, Ramadan, Karva Chauth, Litha (the Summer Solstice) and Day of the Dead?

Sorry if this is a strange question. I am just wondering if anyone has a line drawn somewhere, or if these are all basically in the same category in your mind as Xmas, as the pagan (or religious) aspects of these holidays do not matter, as they can all be redeemed for Christ like Xmas as long as one is thinking about Him as one celebrates? I would assume the consensus answer would still be about being convinced in one's mind, but I would be interested to hear from anyone on it.

This is not meant to offend anyone, or be sarcastic, just add a new layer to that aspect of the discussion.

[eaglesway]

Well, really I do not see where Christ is involved at all in Ramadan, or Halloween. I would put Christmas more in the category of Thanksgiving... a quasi religious/cultural holiday. Where I live some of the Jewish holidays have also gone pretty far afield from their original intent, yet, the actuall issue is in the heart of those who are celebrating it.

The question is(imo) whether or not the nature of the celebration is so offensive to the Spirit of Christ that Christians should not celbrate it at all. With some of these Jewish and Christian holidays/holy days it can go either way according to the heart intent.

Ramadan, of course is a holy day no Christian would observe, and I really always felt that about Halloween too. Litha is a purely pagan holiday so the answer, for a Christian should be obvious.

While it is clear to me that Christmas is viewd by some as a purely pagan holiday, that is not so obvious and therefore a little more difficult to sort out.

Some could even go so far with the Jewish holy days if they wanted to try- but Paul would resist them in that, I think, if he were here. :o)

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Thanks for all the replies. He actually said it to both of us BEFORE we were associating with the Messianics. Could have been to prepare us?

And @ Shev.....you've brought up an interesting point. I have a feeling it might be offensive for some to watch someone celebrate what we Christians would consider a truly pagan holiday. I know for me it would be hard not to say something, if I knew them at all. I'd have to try to plant some kind of seed, that's just my nature. Unless of course, He restrained me. He's done that before, too.

I think the goal for Him is for us to not be offended at ANYTHING, and then He can deal with it in whatever fashion HE chooses, and in so doing, there would be no error on our part. My  :2c: Blessings...

[eaglesway]

Karva Chauth looks harmless enough(just looked it up).....but it is a Hindu holiday celbrated by Hindu women primarily in India from what I read.

I wouldnt think it would apply to Christians at all.

[Seth]

I'd take Ramadan as an example. It's all about intention. Do I wish to honor another god by observing it,? That would be bad. Or what if I was invited to an iftar meal (eating after sundown) and I participated in it? It's a matter of intention. I would not want to lead anyone on by pretending that I am honoring another God, but neither do I need to feel guilty for participating in a meal that someone else has invited me to. The food isn't going to poison me with any spiritual cooties, and neither is the company. It's what proceeds from the heart that would defile me, such as the intention to worship another God. So, to me, again, it's all about intention.

[eaglesway]

 :iagree:

Now concerning things sacrificed to idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge makes arrogant, but love edifies. If anyone supposes that he knows anything, he has not yet known as he ought to know; but if anyone loves God, he is known by Him.

Therefore concerning the eating of things sacrificed to idols, we know that there is no such thing as an idol in the world, and that there is no God but one. 5For even if there are so-called gods whether in heaven or on earth, as indeed there are many gods and many lords, yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.

However not all men have this knowledge; but some, being accustomed to the idol until now, eat food as if it were sacrificed to an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled. But food will not commend us to God; we are neither the worse if we do not eat, nor the better if we do eat. But take care that this liberty of yours does not somehow become a stumbling block to the weak. For if someone sees you, who have knowledge, dining in an idol's temple, will not his conscience, if he is weak, be strengthened to eat things sacrificed to idols? For through your knowledge he who is weak is ruined, the brother for whose sake Christ died. And so, by sinning against the brethren and wounding their conscience when it is weak, you sin against Christ. Therefore, if food causes my brother to stumble, I will never eat meat again, so that I will not cause my brother to stumble. 1 Cor 8 entire chapt.

Paul basicly covers this topic in 1 Co 8 and he doesnt really make it simple. There is no black and white answer here, but the context fits the thread well I think.

Like you said Seth, If I was invited over to eat at someones house during their holy day, I could eat, but not as unto their god, fellowship but not as in their faith. I would also have to be aware of what a weaker believer would think. I would have to conduct myself in such a way that the people I was with would see my love, but NOT as agreement in whatever spirit or religion they are of.

Requires wisdom folks! Sorry- no pat answers.  :laugh:

[micah7:9]

Very good work. :dsunny:

[sheila]

   this topic defintely needed discussed..so glad all these different aspects were brought up.

     want to share a coping mechanism I have to get around Halloween with my gran-kids.  Harvest festival...the mennonites have

   a harvest festival..with fun things...corn maze..pumpkin patch,hayrides caramel apples etc..  also, seasonal decorating......a display of

bales of hay,  mums..pumpkins/squash and shocks of corn. decorate inside with colored leaves center-pieces/mini-gourds/pumpkins etc


  winter......candles..everygreen boughs with pinecones snowmen and winter- themed etc. sleds/ice-skates......

     a time and  season for every purpose under heaven.........

   

                 

[rosered]

  I love it so many beautiful things expressed !!   Excellent points , surly God has blessed  us all immensely :HeartThrob:


I think of the Cross of Jesus Christ     , and His dying , soul unto death , not for anything , but us in mind   !!!

   And His prayer 
  "Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done."

  and I believe being in that same ONE   Body of Christ  , we also    are  bearing up the   Cross of Christ  being   and interceding  on the behalf  the living and the dead    , forgiving and Loving despite the   circumstances that does put one to death.

  Yes becoming all things to all men , for the gospels sake ,  you might save some    ...   where there is  Love there is Life  :dsunny:

Gods will be done on earth as it is in heaven



  1Cor 9 Paul a Servant to All
...21to those who are without law, as without law, though not being without the law of God but under the law of Christ,

so that I might win those who are without law.

22To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak;

I have become all things to all men, so that I may by all means save some.


23I do all things for the sake of the gospel, so that I may become a fellow partaker of it.

  the Law written in our hearts is to LOVE GOD FIRST  and our neighbour as ourselves     , some do not have this Law written in their hearts yet   , Jesus Christ is the express Love of God  written in our hearts     ..  :HeartThrob:

   

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: @ Sheila....Yeah, that's what I do. I despise Halloween because it sucks kids into dark things at such an early age, and the blinded parents go along with it, sometimes surpassing their kids enjoyment of it. But if you offer an alternative that is just as appealing, kids will take it. Part of their training to learn to choose the good.

When my daughter was young, the Halloween festivities always seemed to include some Ouija boards during sleepovers, because after all, fear and the death, is what it exalts. By the grace of God, she knew and believed what I told her about such, and she refused to participate and told the other girls why. Blessings....

[Cardinal]

:cloud9: @ Sheila....Yeah, that's what I do. I despise Halloween because it sucks kids into dark things at such an early age, and the blinded parents go along with it, sometimes surpassing their kids enjoyment of it. But if you offer an alternative that is just as appealing, kids will take it. Part of their training to learn to choose the good.

When my daughter was young, the Halloween festivities always seemed to include some Ouija boards during sleepovers, because after all, fear and death, is what it exalts. By the grace of God, she knew and believed what I told her about such, and she refused to participate and told the other girls why. Blessings....

[Shev]

Very interesting answers, everyone. Thank you for not taking offense at the question too!  :dsunny:

[rosered]

Very interesting answers, everyone. Thank you for not taking offense at the question too!  :dsunny:

  Ha  :laughing7:      That   was so cute !    The older  I get Shev , the more I realize I don't know nothing!!! 
  The thrill of Christmas  as a child was always   treasured memories  for my family ..

  Who knew  that  one day , it would not hold that same luster  ?   

  But because of  my own   convictions should I rob my  grandson of the same   treasure ?

I know that  my parents and grandparents and loved ones  loved us  , what better time than to make a good day of it ?

I miss the old pillars where the whole family gathered under one roof and we all laughed and ate   and enjoyed each others company  ..
Surly God  would not despise this   love among   family ?   no ?

  :HeartThrob:

[rosered]

  Something else come to mind  after  thinking about this Thread ,,,  and the many replies  ..

  Who has despised a day of small things ?


  Zech 4 ...9"The hands of Zerubbabel[the seed of Babylon] have laid the foundation of this house, and his hands will finish it. Then you will know that the LORD of hosts has sent me to you.

10"For who has despised the day of small things? But these seven will be glad when they see the plumb line in the hand of Zerubbabel-- these are the eyes of the LORD which range to and fro throughout the earth."


   One just might be guilty of   swatting at gnats and swallowing camels    ..... :winkgrin:  I just do not know ... :HeartThrob:

[Caffus]

I'm a UR believer...I don't consider myself religious. I believe I do have a relationship with God in Christ. I celebrate Christmas and I have a tree.I dont feel its wrong for me..I don't worship the tree. Lol, I just enjoy it...but if you think it's wrong..then for you it is.  :HeartThrob:

[micah7:9]

What is humorous for all those who are rather new, this christmas question has come up every year for awhile now, right about this time. :Peace2:

It's a kids glove kind of discussion and nobody really gained any ground last time around either, all about the same responses. Maybe it should be one of them banded or taboo subjects, my opinion only, and I mean no offence to anyone. :HeartThrob: :dsunny:

[Seth]

I think rather than banning it, we could alternatively link this conversation to any new thread that comes up and encourage the poster to look through it.

[eaglesway]

Good idea Seth.