Do you celebrate Christmas?

[rosered]

Unshakeable truths for me are believing in Jesus, loving God, and loving our neighbors. The details like this thread are up for differing opinions...but I prefer a "this works for me" when sharing...

I used to believe everything I knew was right and it was my duty to share (jam down their throat) my views. It caused discord with no other good fruit. Then over time God would show me that I was actually wrong anyway! So good thing I didn't convince anyone. Then my eyes would be pried open a tad more and again and again.

So now I try to practice humility. No one has it all right.

   Amen    :dsunny:

Sharing something I learned   also  , is not choosing       the left or ''right ''
  left in the dust or  being ''right ''

  I  believe the middle ground    has the perfect balance  , blessed is the peacemakers they shall be called the children of God  :HeartThrob:

   For me the peace  is when you  do not choose   sides , but   balance between the two  , Just as Jesus is the Lord /Master of the dead and the living

   the ''on fire for God ''   or the ''waxed cold''  because the iniquity abounds  , than does Gods grace abound the more       ...

  I am  not so proud as to say I have lots to learn  ,  learning from  the Holy Spirit of Truth  and my brothers and sisters in the Body of Christ  ,  eating  His body and  drinking His blood  does  give Life in the Spirit    and discerning the Lords Body   allows room for Spiritual growth ''  in  truth and grace    ''

  Two things I believe we can never ''outgrow ''   but  in constant need of  continually ..

    The   Christ  child grew  .. as anointed by God the FATHER ..

   Luke 2 :40

39When they had performed everything according to the Law of the Lord, they returned to Galilee, to their own city of Nazareth.

40The Child continued to grow and become strong, increasing in wisdom; and the grace of God was upon Him.

1 Samuel 2:21
And the LORD was gracious to Hannah; she gave birth to three sons and two daughters. Meanwhile, the boy Samuel grew up in the presence of the LORD.

Luke 1:80  John the baptist .. purposed and prepared ..
And the child grew and became strong in spirit; and he lived in the wilderness until he appeared publicly to Israel.

Luke 2:52
And Jesus grew in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and man.


   Jesus  Christ      working  in the above   , Holy  pure Wisdom , glorious  power of God    and below , lowly beggarly elements of human  understanding   to  be JOINED together as ONE   
  ONE SPIRIT ONE FAITH 

Eph 4 Unity in the Body
...4There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling; 5one Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all....

   What an awesome ''gift ''   to always be  aware of and considering     in ''Loving thoughts  and actions ''   :HeartThrob:   everyone and everything is blessed   beyond measure ...

[sheila]

I call such things 'pearls of wisdom in a nut shell" though the prince of this world may have meant it for evil.[with merchandising and

materialism etc and to accuse before God the practices of His people]..God  meant it for good..

   for this reason we are to 'judge not,lest ye be judged"

[eaglesway]

Sometimes I wonder that the glories of the victorious gospel dont consume our conversations as well as our thoughts instaed of all the peripheral stuff. maybe I will make that a topic. :o)

[GodIsLove]

Sometimes I wonder that the glories of the victorious gospel dont consume our conversations as well as our thoughts instaed of all the peripheral stuff. maybe I will make that a topic. :o)

:thumbsup:

[Ross]

Indeed about the glory thing.
Glad He is changing us from glory to glory.
I like the illustration of Moses coming down from his consultation with such glory that the people could not even look at him.
We will be like Christ when we see Him as He truly is in the next life.
The portrayal of our body being like His glorious body is mind blowing.

[eaglesway]

Yes, absolutley Ross. The Glory Thing :o) is AWESOME!....IN EVERY RESPECT. tHE WORD ITSELF DESCRIBES EVERYTHING gOD IS DOING.

MANY SONS UNTO GLORY....

hOW LIGHT OUR SUFFERINGS ARE COMPARED TO THE gLORY THAT IS TO BE REVEALED IN US...

OOPS, SORRY ABOUT THE CAPS LOCK LOL

I dont want to retype it.

The earth will be filled with the glory of the Lord and the glory of the Lord will flow from mt zion

That we who were first to believe would be to the praise of His glory.....

BUT NOT THE LAST!!!!!...             <<<those caps were on purpose :o)

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: AMEN :thumbsup: :banana: :dsunny:

[Ross]

" OOPS, SORRY ABOUT THE CAPS LOCK LOL"


No problemo ;  I.M.O emphasizes the points made nicely.

" The earth will be filled with the glory of the Lord and the glory of the Lord will flow from Mt Zion."

Amen!! More glory than the sun puts out in this age.

[micah7:9]

I just find the question and the answers unbelievable knowing what is known. :2c:

[rosered]

I just find the question and the answers unbelievable knowing what is known. :2c:

  Where there  is Love  , there is Life ,  it has always been a matter of heart  :HeartThrob:


  GOD judges the heart   , 7But the LORD said to Samuel, "Do not look at his appearance or at the height of his stature, because I have rejected him; for God sees not as man sees, for man looks at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart.    that being said ,     we must remember  the LAW  is written in their hearts     ,,,,, that is to love God first and your neighbour as yourself   , all the law is hung on these two    laws and  covers a multitude of sin/error   

  LOVE or the lack there of    test   us every last one of us in that place where we are at   continually ... , to forgive and pray for enemies of the  Cross of Christ   ,,,


Many  might think where is God in all this madness  and worldly chaos     and foolishness  ?     

He patiently waits for those whom have been here out in the world ''little prodicals  learning ''    My Fathers house is the only  SAFE place to be truly  LOVED and cherished and cared for and many  of those returned are waiting on us all too !! 



James 4 Drawing Near to God
...10  Humble yourselves in the presence of the Lord, and He will exalt you. 11Do not speak against one another, brethren. He who speaks against a brother or judges his brother, speaks against the law and judges the law; but if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge of it. 12There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the One who is able to save and to destroy; but who are you who judge your neighbor?


  LAW OF LOVE  , where  lOVE  is LIFE is abundant    , GOD IS LOVE ....    There is no other source     ...   IT COMES FROM FATHER , Jesus was sent to prove that to us  now ....   PROVE    , no doubts ...prove
[pro͞ov]
VERB
demonstrate the truth or existence of (something) by evidence or argument:
"the concept is difficult to prove" · [more]
synonyms: show (to be true) · demonstrate (the truth of) · [more]
(of bread dough) become aerated by the action of yeast; rise.

Christ is risen     !!!  GLORY !!!!   :HeartThrob:

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: The way I see it, we give out the truth as we currently know it, in ANY category, and then leave it up to the Spirit to convict them or not. The Spirit began to convict me over keeping the Kosher laws. It wasn't a choice on my part, nor a desire. It's the same with everything.

The thing to remember is, it may not be their season to receive a particular truth, and if not, then the Spirit will not convict, and without conviction, for THEM, it would be a work of the fleshly will to do it, and in that sense a sin, even though it's truth. It's eating of the GOOD part of the tree. This is why we can do what's "right" and still sin, but most never see this. BUT as many as are LED BY THE SPIRIT, they are the sons of God.

How is this possible? Example. What if when Paul turned the man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, and someone disagreed with that decision of the Spirit, and brought him back into where he was. It LOOKED like a "good" thing, but it was against the Spirit's will, and so was sin.

Same way with what Peter said to Jesus, be it far from you Lord, and Jesus rebuked Satan. It LOOKED like compassion and desiring that He not suffer, but it was not. There is such a thing as false compassion spirit; EVERYTHING the Lord has, Satan counterfeits.

So this is why we can't judge someone who celebrates this still. If the Spirit does not convict them at this time, how can we hold them accountable and judge them? It would be judging God's timing and works.

I went through something with a friend once. It LOOKED like outright sin she was doing and I was battling her over it, but she kept insisting the Lord was making her walk it out. I finally went to Him with it, and told Him I didn't want to come against His hand in any way, but that I likely was going to if He didn't tell ME what and why He was going this with her. He did, and I shut my mouth and kept it shut. Blessings....

[eaglesway]

Christmas is a real mixed bag for a lot of people. What is is. How it is perceived by different people. Even what spirit it is celebrated in. I find it to be a poor battleground.

The commercialization of Christmas is no different(imo) than the commercialization of church. Not everyone in the church is there for the wrong reason, even tho they may not be aware of what is wrong about what is taught in that particular church.

Paul said if one man wants to regard one day above another let him do so as unto the Lord. If another regards all days the same, let him do so as unto the Lord and not judge those who are weak in their faith.

If God was so upset about the rebellion of the Jews that He said their feast days had become a stench in His nostrils that didnt mean He wanted them to stop celebrating them- it meant He wanted them to live right, so the offense to Him was not the day- it was in their hearts, and the issues(Isaiah 58) were about how they treated one another.

Wisdom and humility are higher than knowledge. Love edifies, knowledge puffs up.

That is all truth.

Paul became all things to all people. he had Timothy get circumsized even tho he adamantly rebuked those who were trying to bring the law and the holy days into force over Gentile believers.

Why?

Because in that moment he was trying to accomplish a higher purpose. So he(I am sure) asked Timothy if he was willing to be circumsized in order to continue in the work.

He was becoming all things to all people so that by any means he might save some.

There is a limit to that, of course. That limit is found in the heart of each person according to what God is doing in their world among those with whom they live and are a witness.

What we think we know for us may be absolutely true. What we do with that in regards to others must be guided by wisdom and humility.

To me, all days are the same. Every day is Today, the Day of the Lord. but I can celebrate with my family on Christmas and would consider myself a brute if I were to try to educate them with my knowledge on that day, or even in that season as they do what they do for their varyig reasons.

[rosered]

 :dsunny:   


  :goodpost:  John  ,

  LOVE    it .

                          :HeartThrob:

[Eduard]

Yes, yes, yes.  :thumbsup: eaglesway.

[jabcat]

 :thumbsup:

[marie glen]

Amen and very well said and is what I would think to be an attitude of a peacemaker.

I am so happy that I do not feel an urgency to convert people to faith in Jesus.. perhaps becoming obnoxious seeming to those I would most want to reach. It's a good freedom I believe to be content to merely plant seeds when the space and opportunity is granted. (And to pray!)

ET is a mixed bag for those believing it. Some who care the most may try hardest to convert folks.. Perhaps making holidays and gatherings trying for their family or friends. Yet if they do believe ET but do not try to convert, it may seem they lack love and concern for those not (yet) saved. I feel sympathy for any sincerely believing ET or even AT.. And I love what God's word says about days and meats. Even in the kingdom, I hope we will not all be clones or exact duplicates of one another! :o

[micah7:9]

Not usually this long winded, but the subject troubles me and it comes around every year about this time.

Founded on Truth or settle for tradition?

Hell...is Hades= the unseen..grave or pit....not a place of eternal torment.
Hell....Sheol= the grave or pit..where the dead go...not a place of eternal torment.

Going to "hell" a place of eternal torment, is a religious tradition, debunked by truth. In the Pentecostal churches "hell" is a word painting by loud preachers of human beings being tortured is searing flames of fire for eternity with articulate words. This has been heard on radio, seen in tent revivals and TV "evangelists" then and today. A preaching of fear that had NO Bible basis, but people embraced that doctrine of fear, and those who believed they weren't going there were almost gleeful many were.

Religious tradition.
I was still teaching "hell" as eternal torment in Pentecostal churches, when I was given to realize a truth... that the wages of sin was death...not a wage of eternal torment. 1 Tim. 2:3-4, Jo. 12:32, 1 Tim. 4:10, 2 Pet. 3:9 and many more verses that teach 1Jn 4:14  And we have beheld and bear witness that the Father hath sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.

It would seem that today men would rather follow a denomination rather than truth. Remember that all of us came out of a denomination, and some of us have held to a degree of than denomination's teachings and continue to build on that teaching rather than more truth.

Christmas..."Christ ...mas"...... "annointed  mass?" where is such a thing testified to in the Word of God?

It was back then, about 1985 that I also was given a truth, that christmas was just as traditional as the Christian teaching as hell! I was raised on the belief that Dec. 25th was the day Christ was born and it was a time at the end of the year for decorated trees, lights, the yearlong await for more presents than usual, frosty the snowman, reindeer that pulled a sled filled with toys driven by a jolly old guy dressed in red flying through the air...and oh yeah the birth of Christ..lest one forget.

Maybe someone could search like one brother is doing for "hell" as a place of eternal torment in the Bible, and show scripture and verse where "hell" is? But it ain't as he is posting. My point is, those who seek and dig to find truths in the Bible, who have left behind the traditional teaching of a "hell," continue to keep, embrace and stand for, and seem to believe in or at least give umbrage to a religious tradition that has no viable proof with scripture or verse that such a celebration exists or was instructed. Religious tradition.... most have found as we search is not true, men's traditions are not found in the Bible.

There is no place in the Bible that I have found of such a thing as a "Christmas" which means "anointed mass" No where can I find instructions for a celebration for the birth of Jesus Christ or a given month that denotes His birth a celebration, let alone with trees decorated with lights, and trading of gifts.... could this day Dec. 25 be a tradition of men? Could this be a day of celebration by men, a creation to make man feel good? Man and religion picked a month and day... and tradition set in... to make man feel good, so man felt like he was pleasing the Lord. Is it not just as untruthful as the teaching of a.... hell doctrine?
My desire is to do good and show the Love of the Saviour, to give with nothing in return, every day I am given breath should I be able.

I just find an "anointed mass" unexceptable. There is no "christ" in a "christmas" no matter how good it makes YOU feel. People teach and preach a hell of eternal fire as punishment for sin....is it true to the Word of God...No. Yet people who believe there is no hell in the Bible and seek His truth, embrace a tradition created by men, for the one purpose of making people "feel" good at a certain time of the year. Yeah I/we have celebrated Dec. 25th all our lives and people before us and people before them and people before them, cause it was a happy time, we got gifts, we gave gifts, we put up a tree with beautiful lights and we said that Jesus was the reason for the season, keep "Christ" in christmas [anointed mass]. We get upset because some people want to say "happy holidays" and not "merry Christmas," when it is just that, a happy holiday for the carnal man.
Paul said through the Holy Spirit... 2Co 6:17-8 Wherefore, Come out of their midst and be severed, the Lord is saying. And touch not the unclean, and I will admit you, and I will be a Father to you, and you shall be sons and daughters to Me, says the Lord Almighty."

Jer 10:2-4  thus saith Jehovah, Learn not the way of the nations, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the nations are dismayed at them. For the customs of the peoples are vanity; for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.

Exo 32:1  And when the people saw that [u ]Moses delayed to come down[/u] from the mount, the people gathered themselves together unto Aaron, and said unto him, Up, make us gods, which shall go before us; for as for this Moses, the man that brought us up out of the land of Egypt, we know not what is become of him.

2Ki 14:3  And he did that which was right in the sight of the LORD, yet not like David his father: he did according to all things as Joash his father did.  2Ki 14:4  Howbeit the high places were not taken away: as yet the people did sacrifice and burnt incense on the high places.

2Ki 18:3  And he did that which was right in the sight of the LORD, according to all that David his father did. 2Ki 18:4  He removed the high places, and brake the images, and cut down the groves, .....

Jesus Christ was born, Luk 2:10  And the angel said unto them, Be not afraid; for behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy which shall be to all the people:  for there is born to you this day in the city of David a Saviour, who is Christ the Lord.
Luk 1:32  He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
Mat 1:23  Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, And they shall call his name Immanuel; which is, being interpreted, God with us.

Is that not enough to rest in, Immanuel; which is, being interpreted, God with us.

:dsunny: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

[joeteekay]

Hey, Micah,
Well written. I agree 100%
:banana:

[micah7:9]

Hey, Micah,
Well written. I agree 100%
:banana:

Thank you my friend! :dsunny:

[sheila]

mass=to gather in a lump......is it not God's perogative to make a vessel of honour of the same lump?

   I was in a very legalistic religion....and they imposed their own conscience on the people in this matter.mostly so they could

  point that finger at the other churches and accuse..and boast in their flesh[ see they do thus and thus,but we don't!]

   there's a difference in  the servant class 'giving those of the household food at the proper time' and those who begin beating

  those of the household.   why should any of the household be beat due to another's conscience?  is that love?

     does the tradition 'set at naught" the word of God?

   they did the same with Mother's day and Father's day...a traditional day to honour your father and mother[see corban that nullify's

  the word of God to honour your father and mother]

   Jesus turned the water into wine..when it was not His time..as to not dishonour His mother....

   if you want to judge your family's practice of getting togather on that holiday as 'unclean/evil" and say get far away from me

  I am too pure for you...while you eat pork..God gives His opinion on that too. if you are righteous by keeping the letter of the law

  then keep it all!!!  or do we forget...Jesus ate and drank with sinner's?

   who is really nullifying the 'word of God' when Jesus  said 'judge not lest ye be judged?" and Paul said 'all things are lawful..but

not all things are expiedient"   evidently God loves and is going to save by His grace all these Christmas celebrater's...

   the purpose of the law[to lead to Christ] was to show you that no-one is made perfect under the law of written ordinances.

   and lead you to the grace that is of God through His son Jesus Christ.   every GOOD GIFT[Christ] that God gives is spoiled by

a little evil by the kingdom of darkness. Some make judge that the darkness and evil is in those that celebrate Christmas/by their

knowledge of good and evil;and completely miss the own darkness in their heart to disobey and judge as such. Thus the principle

of 'judge not lest ye be judged"  for I came,not to destroy the world..but to save it.  Ye must be perfect like the Father..freely

forgiving those who trespass against you.  So,if Father does in fact see Christmas as a trespass against himself and His Son..

do you not think He freely forgives?  Has He not chosen mercy/grace over judgement for His whole creation.


a little knowledge is dangerous,a little evil spoils much good.

     regarding the jezebel spirit that.. teaches my people to eat food offered unto idols...do you not know that an idol is nothing other

then thinking/believing that ye shall be saved/delivered by the work of your own hands? be careful how you build and with what material

the works of your hands[flesh] will be burnt up...and you will suffer loss. the foundation stone is GRACE! Seven eyes/spirits on that

foundation stone.

  after beginning in the spirit shall we then be perfected in the flesh? Gal 3;3 no flesh will be declared righteous..even those who don't

celebrate  Christmas.

  we must refrain from placing stripes on the back of your household of faith members!!! lest we be appointed to hypocrisy...........

   for the three things that remain are faith hope and love......knowledge puffs up..love builds up

[sheila]

 you don't boil a kid in it's mother's milk.  Babes in Christ identify with the Christchild/babe in the manger.  YOU DO NOT KILL THAT CHILD

  AND BOIL IT IN IT'S MOTHER"S MILK... Milk/that which is to nurture the child"s.[faith]..... apply that spiritually.


   and speaking of idols in houses...I hope none of us have any images of anything in heaven or on earth hanging on our walls. no

crosses nor last supper pictures,photos,household knick-knacks etc[amish keep this].

   apply that spiritually as your body being the temple and evil spirits on the wall of your mind[not all are clean]

  like a man that fled a lion and bear and come into his house and a serpent on the wall bit him. the accusor of the brethern in

your mind is that serpent.are you devouring one another like unclean beasts?...apply that spiritually

  no blended clothing please...apply that spiritually....law and grace..filthy garments of self-righteousness  vs free gift/grace/covered by

Christ's blood. are we walking around in blended garments?

....am I out of my mind?

[Seth]

if you are righteous by keeping the letter of the law

  then keep it all!!!

Yup.

....am I out of my mind?

Nope.

[Seth]

This whole question of whether Christmas is in the Bible is an interesting one.

There are lots of things that are not in the Bible that are permissible. The New Testament was not written to give us an exhaustive list for what is permissible and what is not. That's the old way. That's the way Jesus freed us from. He freed us to be given a spirit of a conscience. If we have to live our lives by an exhaustive list of what we may do and not do according to what is written, then we will never grow.

That's why the New Testament takes the whole law and reduces it to one word: Love your neighbor. It's easier to live our lives according to a list of "do this" and "don't do that" because we can get rid of the gray area that way. We feel we can simplify, feel that we can be clean according to the things which are easy to control. But loving a neighbor can be an internal wrestling match. What does it mean to love our neighbor? It's instinct. Faith has to do with our intention. Why did Paul have Timothy circumcised? Because he thought it would make Thomas more righteous, or because he wanted to gain entrance to the synagogue and preach Jesus? That matters; the why matters. Why do people celebrate Christmas? To make them more righteous? Or to have fun with family and friends? It matters, the why.

It doesn't matter if Christmas is in the Bible or not any more than it matters if Super Bowl Sunday is in the Bible or not. It only matters if people FORCE others, or pressure them to do it. I am trying to live a life according to the actual commandments laid out in the New Testament: believe in Jesus and love thy neighbor. I am not subject to the extra rules placed on me by Christians who'd like add to those commandments in the name of purity. And that is what makes me free.

[sheila]

now Peter found himself in the midst of a dilema..when he had freely ate with the uncircumcized....and the circumcized believers

come on the scene.[I have been on both sides of this dilema regarding Christmas]...Paul said..'if you being a jew are unable to

............why do you....compel these?.."  I choose to freely break bread..with both.Surely the Lord is the mediator of both!!!!

[Seth]

When we look at the pattern of the new church in the New Testament it was filled with accounts of people coming into the congregation and saying to freed people "you must do this, you must do that." Must be circumcised. Must follow these rules. The only restriction Paul placed on Christians was when their rights and privileges as free people conflicted with the commandment to love your neighbor. That's when it's not OK to eat meat sacrificed to idols. ONLY WHEN IT CONFLICTS with "love thy neighbor" and otherwise that it is permissible. That's the pattern I follow in regard to Christmas. You can tell me the Bible doesn't tell us to celebrate Christmas. To which I will tell you, the Bible doesn't forbid it either.