death:an ending?

[Molly]

The question is --when did he become a quickening spirit?

That is a spirit which brings others alive--gives life to a newborn.

That word, quickening, is associated with the baby coming alive in the womb.

Did this really happen, then, in all its fulness,  before his resurrection?

Think of Peter before [clueless] and after Christ's resurrection.


John 7:39
(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

[micah7:9]

Amen Eaglesway  :grin:

[eaglesway]

 :laughing7:

[WhiteWings]

Well, I dont believe you can have it both ways. Either we can accept that Jesus was related to man with mans physical infirmities and He had them, then He must have KNOWN sin. (I dont accept that) but thats how I see your reasoning.

Clear. So you believe Jesus sinned like any mortal man.
That's in your line of reasoning. He died like a mortal man so that also means He was a sinner.
See how flawed such reasoning is?

[micah7:9]

Well, I dont believe you can have it both ways. Either we can accept that Jesus was related to man with mans physical infirmities and He had them, then He must have KNOWN sin. (I dont accept that) but thats how I see your reasoning.

Clear. So you believe Jesus sinned like any mortal man.
That's in your line of reasoning. He died like a mortal man so that also means He was a sinner.
See how flawed such reasoning is?

I understand that it was your line of reason that began perhaps is flawed. I dont accept that Jesus was infirm nor do I accept that he could possibly sin.
I believe He was aware and felt the emoition of mankind in their infirmities and the presence of the essence of the Father went from the Son and made whole the weak; Jesus could identifiy with mankind, He was meant to KNOW the infirmities, and He certainly KNEW the weakness in the flesh to sin. Knowing, having a full knowledge of something, does not mean one has to have it.

[WhiteWings]

I understand that it was your line of reason that began perhaps is flawed.

My Jesus is sick thought can be flawed. Same for your view; that can be flawed also. But I tried to back up my view with verses and other writings. But I have yet to read a verse that says that Jesus was healty whole His life. Or at least some proof I read "my" verses wrong.

Jesus also knew what crucifixion, death and resurrection means. Does that mean He experienced them on a "I know the emotion" level?

About my line of reasoning: I have none. I just quote verses.

[Lefein]

The question is when was it meant for Him? In the last hours of His life or much earlier? What verse says it was only meant for His last hours?

There is not a single verse in the whole of the New or Old Testament (that I have yet to find) that speaks of God incarnate getting a disease, or suffering any form of physical destruction aside from the Fasting in the desert (deprivation of sustenance), and the Passion (violation of his being).

Sola Scriptura.

By his stripes we are healed - During the Passion, the portion where he was beaten, he took our diseases, the ravages of our bodies upon himself.

But I have yet to read a verse that says that Jesus was healty whole His life. Or at least some proof I read "my" verses wrong.

If you are not sick, then logically you are well.

If you are not dead, then logically you are alive.

Then Jesus not only carried sickness and infirmities he also must have sinned to know and relate to us.

Exactly; if he has to get sick to relate to us, he has to sin to relate to us too.

Just because he never got pneumonia doesn't mean he can't relate to us - because he took that pneumonia "in essence" (I wasn't there) during the Passion when he began to fulfill his appointed hour.

But here is another question for the crowd...

Since it is being stated that Christ had to get sick in order to be Human, normal, all that and etc...In order to be a high priest who sympathises and relates to us...going through all things...

Was Jesus ever sexually molested, or raped?

If he wasn't violated like that, then how can he relate to rape victims, or molestation victims?  Does he have to have been raped, or molested in order to still relate to us?  If not, why does he have to experience sickness then to relate the same?

[micah7:9]

I wonder why I scanned that chapter....

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
YLTHeb 4:14 Having, then, a great chief priest passed through the heavens--Jesus the Son of God--may we hold fast the profession,
YLTHeb 4:15 for we have not a chief priest unable to sympathise with our infirmities, but one tempted in all things in like manner--apart from sin;
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
YLTLuke 4:23 And he said unto them, `Certainly ye will say to me this simile, Physician, heal thyself; as great things as we heard done in Capernaum, do also here in thy country;'
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
KJV+Isa 53:4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
=> Grief=illness
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
EBRMatt 21:42 Jesus saith unto them––Have ye, never, read in the Scriptures, A stone which the builders rejected, the same, hath become, head of the corner: From the Lord, hath this come to pass, and is marvelous in our eyes.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
EBRMatt 8:17 that it might be fulfilled, which was spoken through Isaiah the prophet, saying,––Himself, our weaknesses, took, and, diseases, bare.

All these verses are the presumption "Physcian, heal thyself." is assuming that Jesus was sick or infirm. these verses also tell me He was AWARE and could relate to the diseases, had knowledge of.  So now you have some verses.

[WhiteWings]

The question is when was it meant for Him? In the last hours of His life or much earlier? What verse says it was only meant for His last hours?

There is not a single verse in the whole of the New or Old Testament (that I have yet to find)

It's good you added "(that I have yet to find)"

But I have yet to read a verse that says that Jesus was healty whole His life. Or at least some proof I read "my" verses wrong.

If you are not sick, then logically you are well.
If you are not dead, then logically you are alive.

So? What's your point? If you can't find a verse about health or sickness you assume health? Then the only proper answer is "I don't know."

Then Jesus not only carried sickness and infirmities he also must have sinned to know and relate to us.

Exactly; if he has to get sick to relate to us, he has to sin to relate to us too.

You are twisting things Lefein. Father decided what Jesus had (not) to suffer. So if Father deceided say 10 things that doesn't automaticly mean He also suffered 30 other things. Scripture speaks about Jesus being sinless. And Jesus being ill. How often, the severity and the type of illness I don't know.

[WhiteWings]

All these verses are the presumption "Physcian, heal thyself." is assuming that Jesus was sick or infirm. these verses also tell me He was AWARE and could relate to the diseases, had knowledge of.  So now you have some verses.

Micah it's your assumption that verse means "be aware".
You are accusing me of assuming things but while it's me that is giving verses and explantions while you simple without the tiniest prove state the verse means "be aware".

YLT Heb 4:14 Having, then, a great chief priest passed through the heavens--Jesus the Son of God--may we hold fast the profession,
YLT Heb 4:15 for we have not a chief priest unable to sympathise with our infirmities, but one tempted in all things in like manner--apart from sin;

Sympathise can indeed mean be aware of. But tempted? Does the verse say the same thing twice?
πειράω
peiraō
Thayer Definition:
1) to make a trial of, to attempt
1a) taught by trial, experienced
2) to test, to make trial of one, put him to proof
2a) his mind, sentiments, temper
2b) in particular, to attempt to induce one to commit some (especially carnal) crime
2c) tempted to sin

YLTLuke 4:23 And he said unto them, `Certainly ye will say to me this simile, Physician, heal thyself; as great things as we heard done in Capernaum, do also here in thy country;

So the people ae just saying that He should stop being aware of other people illnesses?

KJV+Isa 53:4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
=> Grief=illness

Grief is

EBR Matt 21:42 Jesus saith unto them––Have ye, never, read in the Scriptures, A stone which the builders rejected, the same, hath become, head of the corner: From the Lord, hath this come to pass, and is marvelous in our eyes.

Builder reject a stone because it doesn't look very well. Not because it looks perfect stone.

[Lefein]

It's good you added "(that I have yet to find)"

You've yet to show anything saying "And so Jesus did become ill with <leprosy, palsy, pox, boils, any of the billions of diseases that exist today>" either.

So? What's your point? If you can't find a verse about health or sickness you assume health? Then the only proper answer is "I don't know."

God gave me the ability to infer for a reason.

You are twisting things Lefein.

No, I'm using my God given ability to logically reason that if he didn't have to Sin to relate to us Sinners, then he doesn't have to have cancer to relate to cancer patients.

He never broke a bone, does that mean he doesn't can't relate to people with broken bones?

Common sense, if that be twisted, then so be it done, a winding road to the truth is better than a straight road to lies.

Father decided what Jesus had (not) to suffer. So if Father deceided say 10 things that doesn't automaticly mean He also suffered 30 other things.

The Father never once mentioned that Jesus had to suffer being diseased "in himself" either...So I'll say it quite clearly then based on that fact - He was never diseased by germs, viruses, or the like.

And Jesus being ill.

It Never!  Says that Jesus was ever ill...it only ever, and I repeat, absolutely-ever says that he bore our illnesses, it never said he was ever by his own contraction "ill" in or of himself.

IE: He never woke up one morning, looked at Peter and said; "Ugh!  I feel like I got hit by a chariot...Oh dear Father!  I have the measles!"

How often, the severity and the type of illness I don't know.

That is because it is never, ever, ever mentioned in all of the scriptures "I Jesus was indeed sick with the pox, and thus healed mine self of mine infirmity" or any variation of thus.

You have no scriptural ground what so ever to say that Jesus was ever once under the affects of any disease a day in his life outside of the Passion when he basically got the whole fist of God's wrath flung at him, I've seen scriptures stretched to near breaking to try and cover such a far flung limb of thought...but to even touch it with the light of Truth and Reason snaps it half way across the universe.

Again, did Jesus have to be raped in order to relate to rape victims?  Did he have to learn by experience what it is like to be violated sexually?  It is never mentioned, he never did...Yet he relates to victims of sexual abuse and trafficking all across the globe and beyond.

[jabcat]

Micah, I think it's not about sinning but about avoiding sinning. Satan tempeted Him. He resisted. Many other would have made the deal with Satan. So imo Jesus mission was not to bear own sin but resist our sin.
Jesus came to teach us things. We surely didn't need a lesson on how to sin...

I agree with everything you say here Tony, but I also believe it's a crucial fundamental of the faith to believe that Jesus did bear our sin.  But I agree, I don't believe that necessarily means "all throughout His earthly life".

I feel pretty confident that when Jesus bore our sin, it was on the cross.  He understood our sin because of temptation (and because He is the Son of God so already technically knows everything - though not necessarily had experienced it).  But I believe when He prayed in the Garden "Father not my will but Yours be done", another phase of the process kicked into motion, and at some point during the crucifixion period, all our sins were put upon Him - thus the great sacrifice.

"It is through union with Him that we have liberation by means of the ransom payment of His blood, the forgiveness of our offenses..."  Ephesians 1:7 TCB

[WhiteWings]

It's good you added "(that I have yet to find)"

You've yet to show anything saying "And so Jesus did become ill with <leprosy, palsy, pox, boils, any of the billions of diseases that exist today>" either.

If you want exact names of diseases; no in that case I didn't give a verse.

No, I'm using my God given ability to logically reason that if he didn't have to Sin to relate to us Sinners, then he doesn't have to have cancer to relate to cancer patients.

It's not about have to or why? It's only (for me) about what's written. Of course we can find certain things odd. But that doesn't make those things more or less odd.

He never broke a bone, does that mean he doesn't can't relate to people with broken bones?

If believe He can relate to people with broken bones.
But I also believe He can relate to crucified people without being crucified.

Common sense, if that be twisted, then so be it done, a winding road to the truth is better than a straight road to lies.

Question: Who is on teh straight road?

Father decided what Jesus had (not) to suffer. So if Father deceided say 10 things that doesn't automaticly mean He also suffered 30 other things.

The Father never once mentioned that Jesus had to suffer being diseased "in himself" either...So I'll say it quite clearly then based on that fact - He was never diseased by germs, viruses, or the like.

Then I state based on several verses and many Jewish scholars I state: Jesus was ill.

You have no scriptural ground what so ever

:laughing7:

Again, did Jesus have to be raped in order to relate to rape victims?

Did Jesus have to die to understand death?
Did He have to be crucified to to know how it feels?
Did He even have to be born to know how our life is?
Did He ..... etc

[thinktank]

well that's the point, you think that sickness is normal and that was so, but Jesus came to restore health to all people and overturn it, so that we are no longer sick, but healed spiritually and physically. If our great master is someone who cannot even have the faith to overcome a cold, how can we hope to achieve better?

You seem to believe that faith always overcomes illness.
imo that's not the case.
Sin can be punished with illness.
Illness can be removed by prayer/faith.

But it's always Father who decides on induvidual basis is the can turns out to be a "yes or no"
So the worst sinner ever can be a healty person. And the greatest saint ever can be sick person.

I already said that one must obey the commandments to avoid sickness i.e follow the commandments and one does not sin.

I often find that you repeat the same things I say when we discuss but in a different way.  :dontknow:

I perceive that you are prone to arguing for argument sake. It is good to ask questions and discuss but there's a time one needs to humble ourself and not try and 'win'. If you know what I mean.

Remember that we are discussing Jesus here and not people who sin, Jesus according to the scriptures did not sin ,even though he was tempted as we are.

The argument that he needs to experience our sickness to know what it's like, is not proven in scripture and is counteracted with the scripture that says

by his stripes we are healed.  It doesn't say, by him experiencing our sickness we are healed.

Think it through, if Jesus did indeed experience our sickness, then who's sickness?

Did he experience cancer
Aids
Fungus
Broken knees
Sprained wrist
Anorexia
Depression
you get the picture? did Jesus walk around for 3 mins, then say

" hold on chaps here's a big one coming, my next disease I must experience is diarrhea"
And in about 3 mins it will be constipation, then hemmoroids, so I think we better avoid the towns and camp here in the mountains, oh no"

"What now" said John

Jesus "My knee has snapped, could you carry me to the mountain, i'm about to be transfigured, oh and bring some toilet tissue"

"Oh look its Moses and Elijah" said Jesus

"John" I think he's experiencing shchizophrenia

"I am the lord" said Jesus

"Yep, he's deffinetly going through that" Said Peter

"Ha your a bright one, mr I am the leader of Christ" said Thomas

Peter "lets focus on our lord, any minute now he's about to experience the agonizing disease of pregnancy"

Thomas "Is that a really a disease?"

Peter "Well its an affliction, how else would Jesus know what it feels like for a pregnant woman if he did not go through the same.

Thomas "It's gonna be a long night"

[WhiteWings]

Micah, I think it's not about sinning but about avoiding sinning. Satan tempeted Him. He resisted. Many other would have made the deal with Satan. So imo Jesus mission was not to bear own sin but resist our sin.
Jesus came to teach us things. We surely didn't need a lesson on how to sin...

I agree with everything you say here Tony,

James, even if I sound that way sometimes/often it's not about me being right. It's the statement my views (well not really my as you know) is based on nothing. And to prove that assumptions are made and used against me. That just won't work.

but I also believe it's a crucial fundamental of the faith to believe that Jesus did bear our sin.  But I agree, I don't believe that necessarily means "all throughout His earthly life".

But what exactly is bearing our sin? Sin means nothing. It's extremly easy to do. At least for me it is. So what is baring? Doing the sin?-No because it's very very clearly stated Jesus never sinned. Everyone on this forum agrees with that so lets no longer spend time on that point. Some say sin is death and that's being "disconnected" for Father. Jesus was "disconnected" for a short while. So could that be it?
Or is it in the word bare. I don't remember the exact ritual (I'm sure Cardinal will correct me if needed) The Jews had a goat. A scape goat. They layed all the sins on that goat. So the goat bared/carried their sins. Then they pushed the goat over the cliff. Understand what I mean?

I feel pretty confident that when Jesus bore our sin, it was on the cross.

Agreed. Me too.

He understood our sin because of temptation (and because He is the Son of God so already technically knows everything - though not necessarily had experienced it).

True. He knew that and much much more. Father also  knew it. So I think it's safe to say Father and Son didn't do it to learn something about creation. Father already knew what crucifixion feels like before the universe was created.

But I believe when He prayed in the Garden "Father not my will but Yours be done", another phase of the process kicked into motion, and at some point during the crucifixion period, all our sins were put upon Him - thus the great sacrifice.

Again agreed. But perhaps His illness was also part of of that process. But surely the whole thing went into the extreme in that last day.
---
I think I'll quit posting in this thread for today because I hear hearts pounding and blood rushing across the Atlantic. It's not very productive and I want to know the proven answer before this thread gets locked :icon_jokercolor:

[WhiteWings]

well that's the point, you think that sickness is normal and that was so, but Jesus came to restore health to all people and overturn it, so that we are no longer sick, but healed spiritually and physically. If our great master is someone who cannot even have the faith to overcome a cold, how can we hope to achieve better?

You seem to believe that faith always overcomes illness.
imo that's not the case.
Sin can be punished with illness.
Illness can be removed by prayer/faith.

But it's always Father who decides on induvidual basis is the can turns out to be a "yes or no"
So the worst sinner ever can be a healty person. And the greatest saint ever can be sick person.

I already said that one must obey the commandments to avoid sickness i.e follow the commandments and one does not sin.
I often find that you repeat the same things I say when we discuss but in a different way.  :dontknow:

I repeat things because I don't agree TT.
Being 100% saint doesn't guarantee that you stay healty. A good example is Job. Job avoided sin but still got ill.

I perceive that you are prone to arguing for argument sake. It is good to ask questions and discuss but there's a time one needs to humble ourself and not try and 'win'. If you know what I mean.

I know what you mean TT. I also know I didn't wrote my previous message and this one to win. I just don't agree with your conclusion. I prercieve you start answering before your even have read my post. :winkgrin:

Remember that we are discussing Jesus here and not people who sin, Jesus according to the scriptures did not sin ,even though he was tempted as we are.

Then why you mentioned sin in relation to illness if everyone knows Jesus never sinned.
<...snipped comedy...>

[Lefein]

about what's written.

Problem is, it isn't written.

But I also believe He can relate to crucified people without being crucified.

Then it is settled, he never had to get sick, and for Sola Sciptura's mentioning; he never was.

Question: Who is on teh straight road?

Not to sound arrogant, but I'd believe based on a system of two or three witnesses that it is I who am on the road to truth, straight or not.

1: Logical reasoning says that God incarnate can't get sick if he's able to heal people by his very shadow.

2: Common sense says that if no scriptures mention him being specifically ill, then it must be assumed that he was healthy.

3: Sola Scriptura

4: He has the power to lay down his life, and take it up again, heal the sick, raise the dead, make crumbs of bread and filet of fish into a buffet for thousands, he created the Earth, he transfigured before his disciples, he was pretty darn smart...he turned water into wine...

I think I can have a great deal of faith in the fact that he can keep himself from getting a sniffle or two in his lifetime.

I have  four witnesses right off the top of my head, one of which is the whole span of holy writ.  You have stretched verses, and a few scholars that I don't even think I can trust.

Then I state based on several verses and many Jewish scholars I state: Jesus was ill.

Those verses are so far stretched that I'd have an easier time proving that Peter was Satan incarnate...

And Jewish Scholars?  Are these Judaic scholars who would do anything to prove Christ isn't the Messiah?

Did Jesus have to die to understand death?
Did He have to be crucified to to know how it feels?
Did He even have to be born to know how our life is?
Did He ..... etc

He's God, he did not.  But you are the one claiming he had to get sick in order to fulfill obedience...Not me.

So your point is moot.

[micah7:9]

Im done. Peace and Love Through Jesus.

[Lefein]

As am I.

[willieH]

willieH: Hi Lefein...  :cloud9:

You have noted you are done here, ...but I have a few questions, which others might consider...

The Bible is silent on the health of Christ (from anything I've ever seen regarding his body)

Before I get into my questions...

I do not think it is as "silent" as you might propose... Here is a bit of what L. Ray Smith has written on this ...the entire article is quite extensive and can be found here:

http://bible-truths.com/23-minutes-in-hell.html

L. Ray Smith (Hell is a Christian hoax):

Here's how the Concordant Literal Old Testament translates Isa. 53:2:

"NO shape has He NOR honor when we shall see Him, And NO appearance NOR loveliness that we will covet [desire] Him."

See what I mean? "Who has believed our [Isaiah's] report?" We just read it, but will you believe it? God said through Isaiah that the coming Messiah (Jesus the Christ) would be fragile and have absolutely NO COMELINESS, NO GOOD LOOKS, that anyone would ever "desire Him."

Say, has anyone ever noticed Isa.53, verse 3? "He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief" [Heb: 'choliy,' also defined as, "malady, disease, and sickness" (Dr. Strong's Hebrew Dictionary). Let's look at a couple of other translations of verse 3:

"A Man of pains and knowing ILLNESS." (Concordant Literal Old Testament).

"Man of pains, and familiar with SICKNESS" (Rotherham's Emphasized Bible).

"A Man of suffering, accustomed to INFIRMITY" (The New American Bible For Catholics).

"A Man of pain, Who knew what SICKNESS was" (James Moffett Translation).

Of the 38 times that this Hebrew word 'choliy' and it's root appear in Scripture, 33 times it is translated as "sick, sickness, or disease." Are you beginning to see something about Jesus you didn't know before? Imagine that: Not only was Jesus not handsome, but was also familiar with and accustomed to "sickness & disease." Let's look at some New Testament proof of Jesus' sickness & disease:

And He [Jesus] said unto them [religious leaders and congregation], "Ye ['Ye' means 'ALL of you'] will surely say unto ME this proverb, Physician [Jesus is the Great Physician], heal Thyself: whatsoever we have heard done in Capernaum, do also here in thy country [Jesus healed many in Capernaum, and now they want to see Jesus HEAL HIMSELF].

"And He said... No prophet is accepted in his own country... many widows were in Israel in the days of Elijah... But unto none of them was Elijah sent, save unto Sarepta... a widow. And many lepers... and none of them was cleansed, saving Naaman... And all they in the synagogue [the congregation and Church leaders], when they heard these things, were filled with wrath... and thrust Him out of the city, and led Him unto the brow of the hill where their city was built, that they might cast Him down headlong" (Lk. 4:23-28).

Now for my questions...  :winkgrin:

God incarnate until he is beaten half the death, and then nailed the rest of the way.

1.  Where does it SAY in the WORD, that JESUS (the man) was "God incarnate"?

2.  The WORD says that GOD is EVERLASTING... CHRIST died, therefore was not "everlasting", as He spent time in DEATH (interrupting LIFE) and was not ALIVE... How can it therefore be said that He was GOD which is EVER LASTING (without interruption of LIFE)?

3.  The WORD says that GOD cannot be tempted with evil -- James 1:13 -- yet also says that CHRIST was tempted -- Heb 4:15 -- is the WORD contradictory?  Or maybe indeed, the understanding of men as they observe that WORD, that is in contradiction?  :dontknow:

4.  The WORD says via the WORDS of CHRIST Himself, that He has a "god" -- Mark 15:34 -- How can GOD have a "god"?  (I do not mean this in ANY WAY, to sound at all disrespectful toward the Lord JESUS CHRIST), ...But are you saying that CHRIST is His own "God"?  :dontknow:

5.  How can CHRIST be a SON of God, and GOD also (a SON being an "offspring")?

6. The WORD says that GOD is not a MAN -- Num 23:19 -- but also notes that CHRIST was a MAN -- 1 Tim 2:5 -- and that this MAN was a mediator between GOD and MAN...  If He is GOD, then does He "mediate" between Himself and Himself?

7.  Did a portion of GOD, die?  If so, then that portion of God (Him/them) is NOT PERFECT... for PERFECTION (which means COMPLETE) does not change (nor does it need to)... CHRIST (the man) went from LIFE to DEATH then back to LIFE, which is a notation and progression of change.

I think I can have a great deal of faith in the fact that he can keep himself from getting a sniffle or two in his lifetime.

Also... above, you maintain that CHRIST was never "sick"...  Then how can He relate?  :dontknow:  It is one thing to observe others suffering from disease... it is an ENTIRELY DIFFERENT THING to suffer it yourself.

Please explain how it can be stated that He was TOUCHED "with the FEELING of our infirmities" -- Heb 4:15 -- when (according to you) He had no experience with them at all? 

That is just like a MAN, stating to a WOMAN amidst childbirth -- "I know" what you're going through"...  :rolleye:

Crucifixtion, beatings, humiliations are definitely sorrowful endurings, but are not the SAME as enduring the INFIRMITIES of disease.  I got my butt kicked more than once being raised in East Los Angeles...  :swordfight:  ...but those beatings, as sorrowful as they were, do not compare to, nor are they the SAME experience as the CANCER that I am presently battling!  :mnah:

...willieH  :cloud9:

[Lefein]

A new topic to discuss would be a good idea.  Something worth while and edifying that doesn't insult Jesus's divinity might be nice...

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: @ Willie......something jumped out at me in your L. Ray excerpt......did you notice that the Greek word "choliy" was used THIRTY EIGHT times???  :mshock:

I heard a long time ago that all disease comes from 38 "root" diseases, which someone else (don't remember who) pointed out corresponds with 38 stripes He received.... and thus we are HEALED BY HIS STRIPES. Wow.....Blessings....

[willieH]

willieH: Hi Lefein...  :cloud9:

A new topic to discuss would be a good idea.  Something worth while and edifying that doesn't insult Jesus's divinity might be nice...

This is nothing but an attempt to enflame and bait...  :thumbdown:

As far as the "divinity" of JESUS, ...it is a matter of perception as well as CAREFUL examination of the Scriptures and what they SAY, as to whether JESUS is "God" or not.  

I asked legitimate questions, which you are either unwilling or unable to answer... and to be honest, it does not matter to me, one way or the other. :nod:   You had noted you were done with this thread, ...I was posting for others to consider...  :dontknow:

In the asking the questions, I did not insult anyone or anything... ESPECIALLY the Lord JESUS CHRIST...  

Maybe you missed it:

4.  The WORD says via the WORDS of CHRIST Himself, that He has a "god" -- Mark 15:34 -- How can GOD have a "god"?  (I do not mean this in ANY WAY, to sound at all disrespectful toward the Lord JESUS CHRIST), ...But are you saying that CHRIST is His own "God"?

As is EASILY seen, ...I was quite specific in carefully noting that I meant no disrespect to the Lord JESUS CHRIST... I have the utmost respect and LOVE for Him... but I do not give unto Him that which even HE noted Himself, was not His -- Matt 19:17 -- Mark 10:18 -- Luke 18:19

:Peace: brother Lefein...  :winkgrin:

...willieH  :cloud9:

[willieH]

:cloud9: @ Willie......something jumped out at me in your L. Ray excerpt......did you notice that the Greek word "choliy" was used THIRTY EIGHT times???  :mshock:

I heard a long time ago that all disease comes from 38 "root" diseases, which someone else (don't remember who) pointed out corresponds with 38 stripes He received.... and thus we are HEALED BY HIS STRIPES. Wow.....Blessings....

WOW!  Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrreat stuff!!!  :bgdance:

I was unaware of this sis... Thanks for posting it!  Gotta say it one more time...

WOW!   :cloud9:

...willieH  :cloud9:

[Lefein]

This is nothing but an attempt to enflame and bait...

My apologies...I suppose saying that God the Healer was disease riddled isn't destructive, faith killing blasphemy that kicks Jesus right in the face like the rest of the Pharisees who tried to bring God down to their dead, filthy, sin encrusted level...

Forgive me Father, for the next time I want the topic to be changed to something that is WORTH your attention...rather than pale attempts to make your almighty majesty after the image of sinful, powerless Man.  Forgive me Father, for being bold enough to stand for you, and to stand for who you are!  That great I AM!

As far as the "divinity" of JESUS, ...it is a matter of perception as well as CAREFUL examination of the Scriptures and what they SAY, as to whether JESUS is "God" or not.  

If Jesus isn't divine, then Christianity is a liar, and a whore...

I'll thank you not to come so close to blaspheming my Father.

I asked legitimate questions, which you are either unwilling or unable to answer... and to be honest

No, its because of your post format.  I refuse to answer them until I can read them.

...peace...