#1 -- Is Drinking alcohol, SINFUL?

[Jerm]

Here's a good link

http://www.godandscience.org/doctrine/wine.html#M2SlBPPoIkCf

And also, where did this idea of the wine being "alcoholic" but watered down come from?  Not saying it's not true but I usually only hear this from people who are against drinking.  Is there actual proof (no pun intended) that ancient wine was watered down.  Then again, even if it was it still must have had enough alcohol in it to warrant a warning against excess.

[fire walker]

Personaly I see no sin in others drinking an alcoholic beverage, I myself used to drink beer yet since I've become older with lots of years behind me I seldom desire a drink now and so go months without drinking, sometimes when a family member or friend shows up I might have a beer with them if they want, I don't push the subject one way or the other.

Some religious people also say drinking coffee is a sin let alone drinking alcohol yet they don't have any trouble with sitting around MR. & MRS. Self Righteousnesses gossip parlor drinking tea and discussing how awful old so and so  who lives down the street from their place is because he is always drinking coffee or at least so they say, so what is that? nothing new in this world for sure,  it is still no less hypocricy which appears to me to be the sin, not anyone drinking alcoholic beverages,not anyones drinking coffee, not anyones smoking or anyone else drinking their blessed tea.

Fire Walker

[WhiteWings]

Here's a good link

http://www.godandscience.org/doctrine/wine.html#M2SlBPPoIkCf

And also, where did this idea of the wine being "alcoholic" but watered down come from?

Isaiah 1:22   Thy silver is become dross, thy wine mixed with water:
=> Seems to imply mixed wine is of lesser quality. But I admit this verse is not about the quality of wine.

John 2:9  When the ruler of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine, and knew not whence it was: (but the servants which drew the water knew;) the governor of the feast called the bridegroom,
=> There was no difference in taste so the author of the article is not correct when he wrote it was very young unfermented wine. Firstly unfermented wine is grapejuice and not wine. Secondly the ruler surely would have noticed it was grapejuice instead of wine

1 Peter 4:3  For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries:

John 2:10  And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until now.
=>This verse confuses me a little. Clearly the people the party are already (nearly) drunk. Why would Jesus make more wine so they become even more drunk. Would Jesus help to sin (even more)?

[HartleyDamboiseII]

Sorry, I don't buy into the "Church" Lies, IMO , you really have to chose what is sin "too you"...

I personally don't sin at all. According to the CLV of the Bible... Because I Transgress no law... nor do I "Live" with Death as "My" outcome. Because I don't transgress the law.

Man's rules of living in my country, yes I brake the law like speeding, etc.
but God's Law? No... I am under the law of the new law IN Christ... inwhich there is NO DEATH.. OR SIN....

Lee

[natcat86]

Sorry, I don't buy into the "Church" Lies, IMO , you really have to chose what is sin "too you"...

I personally don't sin at all. According to the CLV of the Bible... Because I Transgress no law... nor do I "Live" with Death as "My" outcome. Because I don't transgress the law.

Man's rules of living in my country, yes I brake the law like speeding, etc.
but God's Law? No... I am under the law of the new law IN Christ... inwhich there is NO DEATH.. OR SIN....

Lee

Hi Lee,


I was wondering how you reconcille that you do not sin at all with 1John 1  8If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.

Just curious,

Nat  :icon_flower:

[HartleyDamboiseII]

because John is speaking to the Jewish law Christians and that book was not addressed to me as a gentile

[Molly]

Sorry, I don't buy into the "Church" Lies, IMO , you really have to chose what is sin "too you"...

I personally don't sin at all. According to the CLV of the Bible... Because I Transgress no law... nor do I "Live" with Death as "My" outcome. Because I don't transgress the law.

Man's rules of living in my country, yes I brake the law like speeding, etc.
but God's Law? No... I am under the law of the new law IN Christ... inwhich there is NO DEATH.. OR SIN....

Lee

Every time you reference this, I am intrigued.  I can't quite comprehend what you are saying.  There is no sin?  What if you break one of the ten commandments?  Then you are still not sinning?  Or one of the two royal commandments of Jesus which are all inconclusive--Love God, Love your neighbor--that doesn't apply to you?  Sometime, could you spend a little more time explaining your position on this with scripture?

Also, what books do apply to you?

[HartleyDamboiseII]

k-sometime-am leaving to work soon

but in the simplest terms, you have two choices, to not know that you are not living in a world bought and paid for by God's Christ and that all things have been made alive (past tense ) , lets say about 2009 years ago,

or live in the knowledge that you are the living God on earth in JC and God and HS, and in this knowledge of the Tree of Life, there is NO death ever.

there is no wrong in God, because God is ALL.
Yes we all make errors in dealing with God's other people, but He is not changed or offended because of braking mans rules.

Quick version

[natcat86]

Romans 3: 9What shall we conclude then? Are we any better[a]? Not at all! We have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under sin.

[HartleyDamboiseII]

Nat. IF you put a lot of thought into the first few chapters of Rom. you will see what I am saying. IF you don't then it ain't your time to see it yet.