Time is at hand. I come quickly

[WhiteWings]

It isn't logical. It isn't logical either that it is unuseble because  it can't be understood

Its Only seems Illogical because its Figuarative...
Extremely Logical To me, so simple a Child could reason with it. :icon_flower:

Bud you reason after the Flesh, Not after HIM...I dont mean to be anything that I understand it..

[Taffy]

Bud you reason after the Flesh, Not after HIM...I dont mean to be anything that I understand it..

Meaning that you reason by that which is Not figurative \ metaphorical or parabolic. :icon_flower:

[WhiteWings]

When I ask what the non figurative meaning is you answer that you don't understand it either.

[Taffy]

When I ask what the non figurative meaning is you answer that you don't understand it either.

Extremely Logical To me, so simple a Child could reason with it.

The conclusion of my statement, Not the Book itself :thumbsup:

[Taffy]

When I ask what the non figurative meaning is you answer that you don't understand it either.

Extremely Logical To me, so simple a Child could reason with it.

The conclusion of my statement, Not the Book itself :thumbsup:

oppps ya Must have edited ya Post just as I was responding

[martincisneros]

Martin, could you give scripture that explains what you are talking about here?  I'm not aware of what you are saying.

It seems like the covenant with David would over ride anything else.  Also, this idea that Christ can't be High Priest if he were on earth--?  He is a priest forever.  So does that mean he will never return to earth?

Jeconiah is designated by three names in the Old Testament. He is called "Jehoiachin" (2 Kgs. 24:6; 2 Chron. 36:8), "Jeconiah" (1 Chron. 3:16-17; Jer. 24:1), and "Coniah" (Jer. 22:24,28; 37:1). In Matthew's genealogy, the Greek form, "Jechonias," is found (1:11-12).

The curse on this descendant of David is in Jeremiah 22:30, that none of his seed would rule upon the throne.  But abolish the present form of heaven and earth and the difficulty is removed.  Christ Jesus is only a high priest to the age when a high priest is no longer needed, which would be 1Corinthians 15:28.  The new birth is a completed birth and not a mutilated half birth like we got after we were cast from Eden.  For whatever reason we were created of corruptible seed in Genesis, but 1Peter 1:23 says that our newborn selves are born again by incorruptible seed.  If Christ Jesus is only King to the ages of ages, then His High Priesthood would have to be of the same duration, as Hebrews bares out because it's a unified Kingship/Priesthood after the precise [to the letter] pattern and orders from God to Melchezedec in Genesis.  His ongoing cleansing, reconciliation, and subjecting work does come to a close and this involves His Priesthood in a special way along with His Kingship.

Christ Jesus returns to raise the just and the unjust from the dead at the close of Revelation 20 and the start of Revelation 21.  And He makes all of us immortal immediately before delivering up the Kingdom to the Father in 1Corinthians 15:28 when He hands in His resignation, as when Washington delivered the command of the Army back to Congress at the close of the American Revolutionary War and forever sealed a greater place of honor for himself in the eyes of the people [and of history] in a unique way that he'd of never achieved had he become our new Caesar.  In that way, Washington was a type of Christ although some may find it sacreligious to find a type that's extrabiblical.  He held it all together through the strength of his character, and God's grace, inspite of seemingly endless defeat, knowing that the important battle was the final one.  He wore down the enemy until ultimately all things were literally his and without making the mistake of his predecessors [throughout all of history] when in possession of absolute power he proved himself the humblest man of modern history by giving it all back to God and to the people he'd served all of his life.  And he wasn't loved less for it.  He was loved all the more for it -- much more than he could have ever thought possible.  It's about 4:59am where I'm at, so I've got to call it a night 'cause I've got a very busy week.  I hope to add more comments/Scriptures later.

[Taffy]

When I ask what the non figurative meaning is you answer that you don't understand it either.

For me There are Mulitple Symbols , its sort Building up another Vocabulary ,A symbol here and then a Symbol there.

I believe the framework speaks of the Natural man becoming a Spiritual Man, moving from Death to Life ,By which ALL symbols explain the same .

Just why would Christ have SO MANY different Titles, Why Not Just Have One , well he does Have One "The Appointed one" .but each explain a Little more of His charachter.

http://www.tentmaker.org/lists/names.html

[Nathan]

Martin, could you give scripture that explains what you are talking about here?  I'm not aware of what you are saying.

It seems like the covenant with David would over ride anything else.  Also, this idea that Christ can't be High Priest if he were on earth--?  He is a priest forever.  So does that mean he will never return to earth?

Jeconiah is designated by three names in the Old Testament. He is called "Jehoiachin" (2 Kgs. 24:6; 2 Chron. 36:8), "Jeconiah" (1 Chron. 3:16-17; Jer. 24:1), and "Coniah" (Jer. 22:24,28; 37:1). In Matthew's genealogy, the Greek form, "Jechonias," is found (1:11-12).

The curse on this descendant of David is in Jeremiah 22:30, that none of his seed would rule upon the throne.  But abolish the present form of heaven and earth and the difficulty is removed.  Christ Jesus is only a high priest to the age when a high priest is no longer needed, which would be 1Corinthians 15:28.  The new birth is a completed birth and not a mutilated half birth like we got after we were cast from Eden.  For whatever reason we were created of corruptible seed in Genesis, but 1Peter 1:23 says that our newborn selves are born again by incorruptible seed.  If Christ Jesus is only King to the ages of ages, then His High Priesthood would have to be of the same duration, as Hebrews bares out because it's a unified Kingship/Priesthood after the precise [to the letter] pattern and orders from God to Melchezedec in Genesis.  His ongoing cleansing, reconciliation, and subjecting work does come to a close and this involves His Priesthood in a special way along with His Kingship.

Christ Jesus returns to raise the just and the unjust from the dead at the close of Revelation 20 and the start of Revelation 21.  And He makes all of us immortal immediately before delivering up the Kingdom to the Father in 1Corinthians 15:28 when He hands in His resignation, as when Washington delivered the command of the Army back to Congress at the close of the American Revolutionary War and forever sealed a greater place of honor for himself in the eyes of the people [and of history] in a unique way that he'd of never achieved had he become our new Caesar.  In that way, Washington was a type of Christ although some may find it sacreligious to find a type that's extrabiblical.  He held it all together through the strength of his character, and God's grace, inspite of seemingly endless defeat, knowing that the important battle was the final one.  He wore down the enemy until ultimately all things were literally his and without making the mistake of his predecessors [throughout all of history] when in possession of absolute power he proved himself the humblest man of modern history by giving it all back to God and to the people he'd served all of his life.  And he wasn't loved less for it.  He was loved all the more for it -- much more than he could have ever thought possible.  It's about 4:59am where I'm at, so I've got to call it a night 'cause I've got a very busy week.  I hope to add more comments/Scriptures later.

I take this idea of Christ "not" being a high priest now to mean that again, he's not coming to fill a natural seat.  There are already high priests here in the flesh and that was never his purpose, to literally be apointed as a physical priest . . . but instead of being in the levitical priesthood (natural), he is of the line of Melchezedek . . .which is the spiritual priesthood.  And because he "has" filled that seat, and we are grafted into him, we can now also be called kings and priests ourselves. . . .spiritually speaking, not naturally.

[WhiteWings]

but instead of being in the levitical priesthood (natural), he is of the line of Melchezedek . . .which is the spiritual priesthood.  And because he "has" filled that seat, and we are grafted into him, we can now also be called kings and priests ourselves. . . .spiritually speaking, not naturally.

So the 1000 year reign (literally 1000 years or not) is right now taking place with Christians as spiritual kings. All other people spiritually dead (those not resurected from the grave).

Is that a correct summary?

[Nathan]

but instead of being in the levitical priesthood (natural), he is of the line of Melchezedek . . .which is the spiritual priesthood.  And because he "has" filled that seat, and we are grafted into him, we can now also be called kings and priests ourselves. . . .spiritually speaking, not naturally.

So the 1000 year reign (literally 1000 years or not) is right now taking place with Christians as spiritual kings. All other people spiritually dead (those not resurected from the grave).

Is that a correct summary?

For me, the 1000 year reign is a realm, not an event in time.  It's the Holy of holies.  It's the position and person of rest.  There are many Christians that are still trying to mature in labor so no, this isn't something all Christians have experienced.  They "can", but they first need to lay their heads down . .as Jacob did when he found "the place" and laid his head upon "the rock" and when he did, all of heaven opened up to his understanding and revealed to him God was the god of the House, and he changed the name of his dwelling place (identity) from Bethel (house of God) to El Bethel (God of the house of God). 

Just as the tabernacle had more than one veil to it, so does our procession in Christ.  There are still many who have chosen to serve Christ that still have veils over their minds . . .Scripture backs this up as well. 

2 Corinthians 3
14But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.  15But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.  16Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.

If I have time today, I want to start a new thread dealing with the difference between a servant and a bondservant . . . just as not all 12 disciples had the honor to see Christ in his glorified state, not all of the church is willing to find this place of rest and see the completed work in the spirit.

[Molly]

For me, the 1000 year reign is a realm, not an event in time.  It's the Holy of holies.  It's the position and person of rest.  There are many Christians that are still trying to mature in labor so no, this isn't something all Christians have experienced.  They "can", but they first need to lay their heads down . .as Jacob did when he found "the place" and laid his head upon "the rock" and when he did, all of heaven opened up to his understanding and revealed to him God was the god of the House, and he changed the name of his dwelling place (identity) from Bethel (house of God) to El Bethel (God of the house of God). 

Nathan, since the seventh day is the day of rest, and since 1000 years are as a day to the LORD, and since we are six thousand years from Adam, couldn't us literal folks postulate we are entering into the thousand years of rest, that is, entering the seventh day, that is, entering into the millenium reign of Christ,  right about now?

You're probably not the one to ask about this, but I could hope...

[Nathan]

YES, YES AND YESSSSSSS!!! Exactly right!  It's what I see and say all along!!  "That's" what is bringing about change to the bride . . .she's seeing the setting of the son upon the days of labor and the dawning of a NEW DAY upon the Sabbath, the day of REST!  Christ is the day!  He is the Sabbath!  In this Sabbath day, Christ is manifesting himself to a bride in ways as never before.  There is an expansion of the reality of who Christ is in the minds of man BECAUSE the timetable for the SABBATH Day has come.

I believe this interest in UR is a part of that.  Truth is being revealed to the hearts of man . . .all in preparation for the full and complete manifestation of Christ himself.  That's why I say we are pioneers . .we are the first generation . .we are in the "dawning" of this great sweep of change that's coming to the church.

And many will also argue that our calendar is not accurate . . .that the Jewish calendar is more accurate and it's hundreds of years off from ours . . .fine . . .let them argue that because as long as they choose to live in the natural realm of things, they'll remain in the days of labor themselves.  But for those who choose to simply open their wings and LET the wind of the spirit LIFT, elevate them into the realm of the upper room, the outpouring of spirit and fire into the bride making her spotless and without wrinkle . . .spotless . . . a picture of purification . .without wrinkle . . .bringing us out of our old man funk and into our youthfulness and innocence of vibrant life IN Christ.

This day is a Spiritual Sabbath day and anyone who lets themselves be carried in the spirit will experience this position, this person of Rest in ALL that they do  . . . including their study habits.  You can put your confidence in a written translation of Truth that may or may not be accurate if you want . . . but I choose to read the Word and embrace the Word that is no longer written on stone, but is written in the HEARTS (spirit) of men.  It is there that dominion returns to the body over their earth.  "See" it in the spirit, call it out in the flesh and walk in it through faith.

[Taffy]

Nathan, since the seventh day is the day of rest, and since 1000 years are as a day to the LORD, and since we are six thousand years from Adam, couldn't us literal folks postulate we are entering into the thousand years of rest, that is, entering the seventh day, that is, entering into the millenium reign of Christ,  right about now?

You're probably not the one to ask about this, but I could hope

The same Day as This Molly...This Is Christ, This is Not stating The Day of salvation is In Two Thousand years Time.


2Cr 6:2 (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now [is] the accepted time; behold, now [is] the day of salvation.) 

Same Day as This Molly, not another ONE

Rev 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

Paul Himself stating...ITS earlier than believed, because its NOW IS, but Only for those who walk In the DAY( Christ), as it states In Revelation It comes QUICKLY the Time is NIGH, Its Nigh FOR THOSE WHO believe Molly


Rom 13:11 And that, knowing the time, that now [it is] high time to awake out of sleep: for now [is] our salvation nearer than when we believed.


Rom 13:12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light


Do those who walk, walk In the Day OR do they walk in the Night?
all this mean people were falling away, back to former beliefs...

Those who ARE Drunkard HEAR the CROWN of PRIDE....its spiritual Talk Molly, we compare Spiritual with spiritual




Rom 13:13 Let us walk honestly, as in the day; not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying.


Rom 13:14 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to [fulfil] the lusts [thereof].






(http://deephousepage.com/smilies/jackson.gif)

[Molly]

Nathan, I'm going to step out a little further in my literal-ness.  (mind you, I learned from my mother how to walk in Spirit as a child, how to call what is not into being, how to walk through open doors, how to ask, seek, and knock.  So I understand that and have done it all my life).  

What Martin said last night, if I understand him correctly--the Lord Jesus himself won't return to this earth until after the fire of purification.  Could we understand that to be Armageddon?  But we see in Rev 20 that this doesn't happen until after the thousand year reign of Christ.  So, then how does Christ reign if he is not returning until the end?

Christ was made manifest two thousand years ago, and now--

19 ... the creation eagerly waits with anticipation  for God's sons  to be revealed.


--Romans 8


Could the new heavens and new earth be us?

Nathan, when Christ says he is come to give life and give it abundantly [without measure], I believe him in a literal sense.   What if the hologram--God's sons--literally took over the rule of this world in the thousand year millenium, ruling --in the place of--with the High Priest-- Christ, as kings and [Melchizedek] priests?  I don't want to sound too crazy, but the science of the last 100 years has been completely hidden and suppressed (that's what the occult worshippers do, and have always done, but never to this extent).  There is a picture of Tesla standing in an open field 100 years ago, with nothing in sight but fields, holding a light bulb to the ground and it is completely lit up.  His dream was to provide free energy--wireless-- to the entire world.  Suppressed by satan and his minions (banksters and industrialists)!   Nathan if the sons of God were to rise up and take control of the science which has been suppressed and hidden for a hundred years--everyone on the globe could live like kings, and probably live 'forever'.

I know you have never given birth, but I'm sure you could take my word for it that you reach a point where you are groaning: enough!, I can't stand one more minute of this--and that is about half way through.  I have been feeling this groaning in the Spirit for some time now,--I am on my last nerve--and I know you have, too.  I've never felt this way before in Spirit--enough, I can't stand one more minute of this, let this child be born!

22We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. 23Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.

--Romans 8


I don't really quite understand this, yet, as I'm only seeing glimpses of it.  I'm too wrapped up in the process to see the end.  But I do take it all literally--that Christ will reign with the sons on this earth, and it will be the seventh day of rest for all people.



13Suddenly a great company of the heavenly host appeared with the angel, praising God and saying,


14Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men.

--Luke 2

[Nathan]

I believe it to happen in both realms, but the clouds of understanding come when we assume that the natural is going to be in our present understanding of what natural is.  But "this" natural is result of the curse.  The curse is the reversal of the original order God created Adam in.  Christ reversed that curse by way of the cross and we can enter into the blessing through the spirit . .and the completion of that blessing is when this earth we live on will also be reversed to it's original state, where spirit took precedence over natural.  So, yes, I believe there is going to be a completeness to what we're seeing in the spirit and it's going to happen just as you say . .when the bride, this body of Christ that has life planted in her womb has come full term and she's ready to birth it out . . .to call it forth.  There is a man-child in the corporate bride that has been finally conceived in her womb.  Many may not be aware that they are pregnant yet, but you can only hide that one for so long.  But it's our responsibility, not to plant this babe in the womb, but to call it forth. 

Keeping in mind "When" it happens the earth's curse will be reversed and the natural things won't be in the same manner as natural things are to us now.

[martincisneros]

Christ Jesus has been High Priest and King since He rode the donkey into Jerusalem, according to Zechariah 9:9, if His coronation wasn't in fact at the transfiguration because of Peter's comments about that in 2Peter about having been with His Majesty.  But there are restrictions on Him being bodily here (i.e. as an individual) until the New Earth.  Hebrews says that He couldn't be priest on earth because of the existing priesthood.  Some premillenialists might object that that was prior to 70AD, but Christ set up His own priesthood on earth with Ephesians 4, 1Corinthians 12, and various statements in Romans 12 and the pastoral epistles, as they're called, that St. Paul wrote.  The same language of Hebrews could be slightly rewritten that if He were on earth, then what's the reason for all of the appointments and endowments in the Body? 

Revelation 20 says that the resurrected reign with Christ a thousand years.  That has nothing to do with the duration of the reign of Christ Jesus, or it's starting point.  That only reflects that those that are made alive at that time from having been stomped out by Islam -- since it's those resurrected whose heads had come off specifically with the ax, in the Greek -- are reigning with Christ a thousand years.  Someone can be a sheriff with the county for X-number of years, but that doesn't mean that at the termination of their "reign" that there's no longer authority with the county and that there couldn't be further appointments and even reappointments.  There are some Old Testament Scriptures that indicate His reign began the moment He was born in Bethlehem, or previous to that in that His reign has always been through each principle and command of the Old Testament Scriptures. 

But His style on the present heavens and earth has been delegation of all power and all authority because He's making things right with us after they went so wrong in the Garden of Eden.  I can take you to Scripture after Scripture in the Gospels and in Paul and John that indicate that if we're not reigning here, then we'll never reign in the ages to come 'cause we buried our talent through presumption.  But Christ Jesus is out of here, as far as the present heavens and earth are concerned, with brief exceptions where He has to step in to restructure things in the Body of ministers with either personally anointing someone for something or having the appropriate angel that's over this or that assigned to the life of the believer that's supposed to do such and such (Hebrews 1:13-14).  I know of some folks that Christ Jesus has laid His hands on for them to have a healing ministry with a special anointing on their hands and others that simply have the angel Rapha-el working with them in ministry to the sick.  Couldn't begin to tell you why in this case, but not in that case, - any more than I could tell you why that the same anointing on physically ordinary men like Sampson and David could tear a lion in half, but when it was placed on Daniel simply made those lions his pillows for the night.

I think that too many times the hands, knees, arm pits, and toes of the Body of Christ have been trying to tell the Head how things ought to be done.  And then have been trying to gouge out the liver if it wasn't doing it's job according to their definition of the will of the Head that's based upon their religious pride, not realizing that the liver is genuinely one of the filtration systems and not the thyroid or an adrenal gland.  1Corinthians 5 does say that He'll exfoliate if we don't get it together and allow Him to run the Body and the order of the ages and His place in them as He sees fit.

[Nathan]

The one thing that seems to be getting more obvious for me when dealing with the comparison between "a" body and the body of Christ is, "a" body can not function unless it has opposites.  There must always be a right hand to compliment the left hand.  A right foot to carry the weight while the left foot advances . . . if we had two left feet, how would that affect the balance of the over-all body?

For me, that's what becoming one is all about.  Even though my perspectives may be opposite from that of another, we still need each other in order to retain balance within the body.  Even though our reflex may be to try to steer the other toward our way of thinking, it may not be the original purpose or call of God in everyone's life.  Perhaps that's why the warring isn't really that effective when we get into our debates with each other.  Maybe that's why it's more effective that we just plant the seeds we have and let God take it from there . . .clarification  . . .sure . . .defending one's stance?  Not so much.