They lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years

[Molly]

No matter what you say, surface or not, I'm looking for a city whose builder and maker is God.  He has promised me this and I believe his promises.

The Jews perverted this to mean it would be a military kingdom where they would be top dog.  When they met the humble and loving God of the universe, it did not compute.

Every time I see someone standing up for truth against a juggernaut of lies, I see Christ.  Every time I see the stronger helping the weaker, the healthy helping the infirm, I see Christ.  Every time I see freedom and [agape] love, I see Christ.

Call it what you will, but I hope in my lifetime, I will see a new heaven and a new earth, and he will reign for 1000 years, King of kings and Lord of lords--and I don't mean the pope or some other world leader, I mean the Lord Jesus Christ.




and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.


the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.

---Daniel 2

[Nathan]

Just curious, after this 1,000 years comes to an end . . .in your opinion, what happens after that?  Start over? 

In my opinion, to understand any of Revelation, yes it is in symbols . .yes it's signed, but it's also signified, but no matter, you've already made your case on why you see it differently . . .but the symbolic piece in here is, if you want to understand it . . .you need to realize also that it's "the" substance after which the type and shadow was made.  To undertand the Revelation of Jesus Christ, first see that the tabernacle of Moses is the framework . .in there is the candlestick, the first thing John sees after he realizes the voice is behind him . . meaning he was facing the wrong direction . . . before he could "see" he had to repent. . .to turn around.

The 5th seal . . . my current favorite . . .it's where the martyred souls are beneath the altar . . .traditionalists would say that these are literal people . . .dimensionalists would say that it is I who lies beneath the altar as I have become a martyr for the purpose of Christ to live in me, I first must die (not sure if literalists agree with that one . . .) so that he may life in me.  The lake of fire . . .is the laver . . .the 24 elders worshiping .and the bowls being filled with the prayers of the saints . .that would be the altar of incense.  It's all there . . .and the 1000 years . . . it's not a definitive separation of time . . .it's a person.  The dimensions of the room for the holy of holies is . . .10x10x10 . . .

Did you read what I wrote on the other thread?  It was dealing with Daniel having to seal up the book . .which contains the same pictures as John also saw . . .but John was told the opposite, he was told to keep it open because the time was "at hand".

My question posed to you who choose to take things literally is, if Daniel was told to close it up . . .and it was only 600 years later when Jesus reopened it . .how then can you explain the reason to keep the book of Revelation open as the "time is at hand" when, according to you, is yet to happen 2,000 years after the fact . . .what does "time is at hand" really mean to you?

In Matthew 23 and 24 where Jesus specifically says that these things MUST happen to THIS (meaning their time) generation.

As for one of your concerns with Daniel 2 earlier in this thread . . . . .and with Revelation actually . I agree that there is a literal application to all of these things.  The things in Daniel came about during the 400 years of spiritual silence between Malachi and Matthew . . . there are historical accounts that fulfill Daniel's prophecies to the letter.  So much so that there are even scholars who believed Daniel was written later than what it proclaims . . .that it was written "after" Jesus came because the things described are so accurate, dealing with the Maccabees and such.

And for Revelation . .yes, there is a natural application to that as well . .. it was all fulfilled in A.D. 70 when Israel was wiped off the face of the map.  Not one stone was left on top of the other in the temple due to the claim that it was built with gold or silver between the stones .  . kind of like it was supposed to be what was used for mortar.  Jesus was forewarning Israel of their coming doom . . .and even though they've been through war after war in their heritage . .this is the only one where the temple system never recovered.  "That" is what Revelation was about naturally.  But to assume it's supposed to be unfolding 2,000 years later .  . it takes way more faith to believe that than it does to understand the spiritual applications of it.

Which, by the way, is what these things are all about . .walking in the spirit.  As Jesus told Peter, flesh and blood can not teach these things to us . . . the rock that Jesus used as his foundation was not Peter the man, but it was the method in which Peter knew who Jesus was . . .it was "revealed" by the Father.  God "reveals" the truth of who his Word is.  It's not about how much you meditate, study, memorize or are schooled on.  Paul even considers all of that as dung . .it's not about having credentials through knowledge . . .it's about having relationship with who is invisible to our understanding.  Christ is that spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is . .there is liberty.

Blessings.

[Taffy]

Yo Brud :icon_flower:

Taf and H . . .try as you will, explaining a spiritual truth to natural minds isn't going to get them to see any clearer.  I love what you guys have said, I respect how hard you've tried, but they've made it clear . . .even though Jesus himself would not speak literally, even though we're called to walk in the spirit and not in the flesh, even though Jesus said his words are "spirit" . . .even though John 1:1 states the Word is not what's on paper, but it's Christ himself . . . until people read these things with their hearts instead of their heads . . .it's just not going to happen.  They've made it clear . .they are going to take it literal.  So . . . if their minds have chosen this route . .just love them and let them go

Indeed your right Bro...but youll find not just I ,but willie Post for those who view ,its not a personal conversation, its out THERE for others to SEE.

PT and Molly are as EQUAL in the Lord as us all bud as ya Know..its NOT personal. altho IT may be percieved that way...whats said becomes a Learning curve for all those who take interest. :icon_flower:

I love your input matey

Taffy

[Molly]

15. I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.

16. They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

17. Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

18. As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

19. And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.

20. Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

21. That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

22. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

23. I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

24. Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

25. O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.

26. And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.

---John 17, KJV, 1611



Jesus' prayer for us---that we be protected from evil--keep them from evil--guarded.

He prays that we be sanctified through the word, through  the truth.

We abide in him, the true vine, and he in us and the Father in him.

This is both an inward and an outward manifestation of the Christ.

If he is in us, we have the fullness of the Godhead bodily within us.  We are walking temples, carrying the Christ wherever we walk in the world, until his return.

The book of Revelation is both symbolic and factual, metaphor and reality, natural and spiritual.

But this earth is his creation and he will have it back for his people.  The wicked will be removed by him.

The meek will inherit the earth.  And, war will be seen no more, because blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called the children of God.

[Nathan]

Hey Taf . . .that's incredible . . . that very thought occurred to me as I reread what I'd written.  I know I for one, as I read the conversation you were having with H . . .I was caught up myself .  .   . you guys were washing over me like a soothing rhthmic wave along with a cool breeze.  I do enjoy you two as your rivers converge with one another. 

Molly, interestingly enough, I agree with your entire last post.  I for one am a supporter of the idea of all living things returning back to the origin of all things.  Both "this" earth and "my" earth.  I believe that as the original alignment comes to it's full completion, we and this earth will return back to our garden state . . .we will be with bodies, but predominantly spirit-beings rather than physical beings . .and this earth will lose it's thorns and thistles . .all signs of curses removed because order will be fully restored . .  I agree with all of that.  I just don't think that's what Revelation is referring to.

No matter . . . I am in agreement with you in this prayer . . .may we all be one with the Son as the Son is one with the Father.

The book of Revelation is both symbolic and factual, metaphor and reality, natural and spiritual.


I had to do a double take as to who wrote that . . .it's what I'm saying exactly.  I'll go so far to tell you  that it doesn't stop with Revelation.  The entire Bible is that way . . .it's in dimensions.  The basic three . .for me, are . .natural, moral, and spiritual.  1st, 2nd, and 3rd . . they to line up with the tabernacle.

The 1st dimension is the natural story in every verse in every line.  There really was a Goliath, there really was a David . . . natural people, natural story, 1st dimension.  The outer court of the tabernacle is also 1st dimensional in relationship to God.  The altar of sacrifice and laver both deal with the infancy stages of our relationship to Christ.  Introductory to salvation by way of the altar of sacrifice . . .and the washing of the water through baptistm of the laver . . .both are illuminated by the "natural" light of the sun.

2nd dimension with David and Goliath is the moral value or the lesson of the story . .we all have felt at one time or another that we've had to face a giant in our live and if it were not for the complete trust in the Lord, we'd never have the confidence or energy to slay any giant ever.  Great application, but it's only 2nd dimension.  It'll give you a lift, but only for a time . . .moral application is pretty much a temporary fix. 

The inner court of the tabernacle is where the priests were required to participate in the activities required to keep the temple going.  Someone had to grow the olives, someone had to mash them into oil, someone had to store the oil, someone had to fill the little pots in the lampstand to keep the fire going.  Someone had to bake the loaves of bread, keep the wine full and someone had to gather the specific ingredients for the altar of incense.  Someone had to measure and grind the ingredients, someone had to keep the burning incense going . . .this room was not lit by natural light, but by cultivated light through the light of the candlestick. 

The third dimension . . in the tabernacle . . .was after passing through the third of three veils . . one at the entrance of the outer court, the second enters into the holy place, and the third is between the holy place and the holy of holies.  In this place, there is the ark . . .the mercy seat where God resided.  The only light in this room was the light of God's glory . . .totally spiritual all the way.  Men were required only to sprinkle blood on this once a year . .otherwise, no one was allowed to enter in it ever.

The third dimension to Goliath . .this is where it gets crazy for me . .I love staying in these rooms that do this. . .Goliath has 6 fingers, 6 toes, his spear weighs 6 cubics . . the number of man . .it's not the mark of the "beast" unless you see that the mark of the beast is simply the mark of man . .carnality.  Goliath was clothed in brass . . .brass is the same thing that the outer court articles are made of . .it's a sign for judgment. 

40 days Goliath taunted Israel but never actually advanced on them . . .there's a reason for that, I'll get to that in a sec.  But TO ME . .I know, many are going to say "testing" but I still like 40 as maturing, birthing . .because Romans 1:20 is one of the huge keys for following patterns. It states God uses natural things to reveal spiritual truth . . .he uses signs and symbols . .sorry Molly . . .I'm not trying to start a fight, but that's what it does say.  Anyway, it takes 40 weeks for a woman to go from conception to birthing . . .with that little scale . . .when you overlay it with whatever the circumstances are in Scripture dealing with the number 40 . . .a really cool pattern forms. 

Israel was not being tested by Goliath . .they were being taunted.  Noah was not being tested by the flood, he was being saved.  Israel was not being tested when Moses went up the mountain, they were being stupid.  And Israel was not being tested during the 40 years in the wilderness . . .they were being disciplined for their rebellion.  I could go on and on . . .But when you look at it from a birthing perspective . .you'll see that the 40 years in the wilderness birthed a nation with a promise land.  The 40 days on the mountain birthed the law . . .broken before delivered, and patterning after another conversation between Taf and H . . .twice spoken . .two covenants . . .hmm . . anyway, Jesus in the wilderness . . .birthed his ministry and purpose on the earth . . .Jesus on the earth 40 days after the resurrection birthed the true church . .before it became deformed into what it is . . .was . .. it's going through metemorphis as we speak.

And the 40 days of taunting by a giant produced a king . . .it was the day David emerged from his own wilderness.

So, Goliath is a picture of the carnal man . . .David steps into a stream . . .the spirit . . and selects 5 . .the number of grace . . .stones . . . not cut by human hands . .they were "smooth" stones . . stones that could fly straight as they traveled through the air. . .Christ, the cornerstone whose way is straight and narrow and few can see it.  So this stone is powered by a man with an anointing . .that would be you. . .and through the spirit of anointing, this stone is accurately directed at the head of the giant . .not just the head, but the "forehead".  It's a picture of Christ penetrating the mind of the carnal man . . .which used to be us . . right? 

The first thing that happens is, this giant collapses to the earth . . .because that's his place of origin, the natural, the carnality, the common logic . . and there he lays . .but that's not enough . . . David has to remove this head . . .this is where you come in . . .you need to lose your mind.  Your head must be severed from your body because you may be the body of Christ, but you, nor I am the head.  So the head must be removed and what is it removed with?  Ah, the sword and every breathing believer is quick to tell you that your sword is your Bible . . .not so fast.  Your sword is the Word of God . . ..that doesn't mean it's your Bible only.  But yes, the Word of God is what separates the head from the body.

Here's the kicker though . . . it is not my place to take my sword and use it against you. . .to prove you wrong . . nor am I to use it to prove I'm right.  Egad . . .this is what frustrates me most . . .it's not the sword that's the problem, it's our use of it . .our interpretations and applications.  My interpretation of the Word is not what separates your mind . . .nor is it my application against you.  It is HIS WORD that does the separating and it's to be applied . . .If I'm the one using the Word as a sword . .it's not to be applied to you in that manner . .I'm not to use my Bible to cut your head off . . .I'm to let the Spirit cut MY head off.

That "weapons of warfare" thing . . .it's not about bringing down the strongholds in others, it's to bring down the strongholds IN ME . . MY imaginations . .every high thing IN ME that exalteth itself above God proclaiming itself as God.  And there is where we part our ways from the traditionalists when reading Scripture.  Yes, it's the inspired word of God for building up and tearing down and reproofing and all of that . .but not against each other . . .I'm to apply it TO ME.

I personally no longer preach on the armor of God either . . .I believe that day for battle has come and gone  . . . I believe that my spirit has truly heard the sound of a trumpet blast, not calling me to war, but calling me to rest . . not the action of rest, but to the person of rest.  and in HIM I have laid my sword down and let it be transformed into a plowshare . . .no more sparring . . .only planting.  Share what I see . . .no intention to defend what I beleive . . we've seen enough Peter's cutting of the ears of the religious servants . . . it's time to let my lion (mind) lay (marry) with my Lamb (spirit.)

So, to recap all that . . yes there are more than just one way to read the Scripture.  Here's how I sum it up.

"Know" the historic truth.
"Apply" the moral value (TO YOU)
"Pursue" the Spiritual meaning.

3 dimensions, bring them together . .and now, you have a house that God built.

[rosered]

 
  wow that was great Nathan  :happygrin:, I percieve  alot in the same manner ..
Ps i so enjoy me ol mate Taffy as well  with the others , Taff and I go back aways , and a dear one to me ..
  God bless you  bro and all .........  rose

[rosered]

Know" the historic truth.
"Apply" the moral value (TO YOU)
"Pursue" the Spiritual meaning.

3 dimensions, bring them together . .and now, you have a house that God built.

  I love this  contribution  by the way ,
  and makes   what Paul says very  real to me 
     death reigned from Adam to Moses  1dimension  history  :winkgrin:
as one dead /the deep sleep of the Lord,  outer court

  reigening Law of Moses  moral law to us to reflect [mirror /glass darkly] 2nd dimension  moral conscienceness  .,  inner court
  3rd  Christ reigening [ Life  within  the new man of the heart ]
  and the temple  being the Body/Physical  , Soul/ awakened moral conscienceness  and Spirit /Christ   the annointed seed & new creation
heaven itself   :)
  peace  rose

[Taffy]

yo Brud

I second Rosiebud , me sis from old , a fine illustration my friend. :icon_flower:

youll enjoy Roses thoughts too matey... :icon_flower:

Blessings
T

[Taffy]

reigening Law of Moses  moral law to us to reflect [mirror /glass darkly][/

Good word Rosie. :icon_flower:

1Cr


13:10  But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

Paul speaking as Child, as one under LAW,counting YESTERDAYS FOOD as DUNG.


1Cr 13:11  When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

Paul becoming ALL THINGS....to all people, speaking as One moving from LAW unto Grace and TRUTH.
1Cr 13:12  For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
]

Taffy

[SeekerSA]

Good Post Nathan

[laren]

reigening Law of Moses  moral law to us to reflect [mirror /glass darkly][/

Good word Rosie. :icon_flower:

1Cr


13:10  But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

Paul speaking as Child, as one under LAW,counting YESTERDAYS FOOD as DUNG.


1Cr 13:11  When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

Paul becoming ALL THINGS....to all people, speaking as One moving from LAW unto Grace and TRUTH.
1Cr 13:12  For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
]

Taffy

But, here Paul is an apostle, given eyes to see, living by the faith of Christ, by grace; yet he uses "future" tense verbage. 

NOW see though a glass darkly, but THEN face to face

NOW know in part, but THEN shall .....


What are your thoughts on this??


Sometimes Paul uses NOW language, ie: Today is the day of salvation,

and other times future tense

such as Peter here;

1Pe 1:5  Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.



Heb 10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching.



Heb 10:36-37 For you have need of endurance, so that after you have done the will of God, you may receive the promise: "For yet a little while, And He who is coming will come and will not tarry."


Rom 13:11-12 And do this, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep; for now our salvation is nearer than when we first believed. The night is far spent, the day is at hand. Therefore let us cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.

[rosered]

  THIS thread is good food! thanks all who have contributed [and served] :happygrin:
  Lauren , these questions are so stimulating , thanks bro,

   Paul lets us know exactly what changes he is experiencing  personally to me
  and he gave a great clue  , in  the  fact being   present or future 
when He spoke of   that he was not perfect yet [complete mature in Christ] , but there were some that  are ! :)  and he  mentions this in

Phl 3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. 
and I am so comforted by his words   because it keeps my own  hope alive , where i am sure i would have all but gave up  already ...


here Paul acknowledges these perfect ones [ complete]  and  Jesus says in  one of his  sayings we are to be  perfect as the Father in HEAVEN
is perfect  ,but we must come as little children [ this is being tutored under the Law as Paul reveales more mysteries ]  here it is

Mat 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

  its Just the Way the Lord words  His words , that makes me think  some have obtained kingdom of  HEAVEN/ God   already , and Paul goes on the describe  what Heaven is in  romans 14
Rom 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

    I have found that  what Jesus  teaches , Paul  goes on to explain  very well   , to me anyways ,
Phl 3:15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you

   and to me the Kingdom of heaven / God ,
  they are interchangable  after being compared to each other , and yet  there are some differences  to be noted 
  I am conviced its a mindset  and Spiritual  plain , a process , set and established  through Jesus Christ by Faith in Him , His Word  by the FATHERS   promise fulfilling  covenant ..

 
plain  adjective, -er, -est, adverb, noun
–adjective 1. clear or distinct to the eye or ear: a plain trail to the river; to stand in plain view. 
2. clear to the mind; evident, manifest, or obvious: to make one's meaning plain. 
3. conveying the meaning clearly and simply; easily understood: plain talk.   
  some of them thoughts bro 
 
     there is alot to go into , I wont do right now ,  but see what your saying
  I hope this is plain speech lol ,    this is one reason I do not post much any longer
  love rose

[laren]

         I hope this is plain speech lol ,    this is one reason I do not post much any longer
  love rose

Hi Rose,

Hi would love for you to post more, in your own method/way; God speaks in many ways.   :LoveH1:

[rosered]

  Oh Laren ,
you are such a sweet soul  and I love  the way you bring out more  Truth in plain sight  !  :cloud9:  many of your  questions have  been  refreshing as a drink of water in a dry    well [within me ] , I look in to
  and would not  If not  ''prompted'' to

  you always do it in Love and edification  , which  i feel  pleases the Lord
  very much as He asks  us all to do ........

2Cr 4:13 We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak;Knowing that he which raised up the Lord Jesus shall raise up us also by Jesus, and shall present [us] with you. For all things [are] for your sakes, that the abundant grace might through the thanksgiving of many redound to the glory of God.


  one thing for sure  , I love His Word it always  blesses my soul and fills me with hope , He sure is faithful as promised

  I can never deny that    :HeartThrob:
love rose

[Taffy]

Hi Brud :icon_flower:

But, here Paul is an apostle, given eyes to see, living by the faith of Christ, by grace; yet he uses "future" tense verbage. 

NOW see though a glass darkly, but THEN face to face

NOW know in part, but THEN shall .....


What are your thoughts on this??

weh had this thread some months back bro...some thoughts on it shared within it...
http://www.tentmaker.org/forum/index.php?topic=1354.0

sometimes Paul uses NOW language, ie: Today is the day of salvation,

and other times future tense

such as Peter here;

sorta catches dun it..like rosie said..its just how the words are used bud..

Pe 1:5  Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

this can be read as future tense or understod in present tense, for that which IS HID will be revealed in the LAST time..LAST DAY, = FIRST DAY= TO DAY= 8TH DAY = SABBATH DAY= 5 DAYS ..FIVE MEANS GRACE COOL EGH?
,
Mat 10:26  Fear them not therefore: for there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid, that shall not be known.


Mat 10:27  What I tell you in darkness, [that] speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, [that] preach ye upon the housetops. Heb 10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching.

Gal 3:23  But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

Heb 10:36-37 For you have need of endurance, so that after you have done the will of God, you may receive the promise: "For yet a little while, And He who is coming will come and will not tarry."

The word MAY brud implies for mine  means simply recieved.

to not fall back, fall away , having received ,....for indeed he comes swiftly to those who sleep in the night...

Hbr 10:38  Now the just shall live by faith: but if [any man] draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
Hbr 10:39  But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

Rev 2:20  Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.


Rev 2:21  And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.


Rev 2:22  Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.


Rev 2:23  And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.


Rev 2:24  But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.


Rev 2:25  But that which ye have [already] hold fast till I come.

Rom 13:11-12 And do this, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep; for now our salvation is nearer than when we first believed. The night is far spent, the day is at hand. Therefore let us cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.

again Brud. ive written on this many times...some again were falling to sleep...one sleeps in the night, called in Genesis..darkness..falling away to former works..But paul admonishes them stating the NIGHT is far spent,( no longer under law) thats the DAY is NEARER than they FIRST believed...meaning for mine"now"".so shed those works of Darkness you are falling back to and PUT ON Christ...who is our salvation....


blessings Bro
T


[/quote]

[Taffy]

         I hope this is plain speech lol ,    this is one reason I do not post much any longer
  love rose

Hi Rose,

Hi would love for you to post more, in your own method/way; God speaks in many ways.   :LoveH1:

Amen to that Laren, Dont Hide Rosie, you sharing often gives me more to think on....forget your style and POST. :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower:

or ill come a searching   :duck: :HeartThrob:

Blessings
Gramster

[Taffy]

  THIS thread is good food! thanks all who have contributed [and served] :happygrin:
  Lauren , these questions are so stimulating , thanks bro,

   Paul lets us know exactly what changes he is experiencing  personally to me
  and he gave a great clue  , in  the  fact being   present or future 
when He spoke of   that he was not perfect yet [complete mature in Christ] , but there were some that  are ! :)  and he  mentions this in

Phl 3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. 
and I am so comforted by his words   because it keeps my own  hope alive , where i am sure i would have all but gave up  already ...


here Paul acknowledges these perfect ones [ complete]  and  Jesus says in  one of his  sayings we are to be  perfect as the Father in HEAVEN
is perfect  ,but we must come as little children [ this is being tutored under the Law as Paul reveales more mysteries ]  here it is

Mat 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

  its Just the Way the Lord words  His words , that makes me think  some have obtained kingdom of  HEAVEN/ God   already , and Paul goes on the describe  what Heaven is in  romans 14
Rom 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

    I have found that  what Jesus  teaches , Paul  goes on to explain  very well   , to me anyways ,
Phl 3:15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you

   and to me the Kingdom of heaven / God ,
  they are interchangable  after being compared to each other , and yet  there are some differences  to be noted 
  I am conviced its a mindset  and Spiritual  plain , a process , set and established  through Jesus Christ by Faith in Him , His Word  by the FATHERS   promise fulfilling  covenant ..

 
plain  adjective, -er, -est, adverb, noun
–adjective 1. clear or distinct to the eye or ear: a plain trail to the river; to stand in plain view. 
2. clear to the mind; evident, manifest, or obvious: to make one's meaning plain. 
3. conveying the meaning clearly and simply; easily understood: plain talk.   
  some of them thoughts bro 
 
     there is alot to go into , I wont do right now ,  but see what your saying
  I hope this is plain speech lol ,    this is one reason I do not post much any longer
  love rose

ya see Rosie..
Tis Nuggets like this , is why you post :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower:

Blessings sis
G

[Shadowland]

Well I think when you are in the Spirit you are in Heaven.....What man looks at/toward the millenium....seems to have happened to our Fleshly person (through a process) while we are alive now.  Like we are raptured when we believe!  We die....to ourselves!

A couple times in my life I almost walked up some invisable stair.  What holds us here in my opinion is our fleshly concerns.

To me, those who do not believe and the walking dead!  They are in their own state of hell.

[Taffy]

Well I think when you are in the Spirit you are in Heaven.....What man looks at/toward the millenium....seems to have happened to our Fleshly person (through a process) while we are alive now.  Like we are raptured when we believe!  We die....to ourselves!

A couple times in my life I almost walked up some invisable stair.  What holds us here in my opinion is our fleshly concerns.

To me, those who do not believe and the walking dead!  They are in their own state of hell.

Welcome Shadowland :icon_flower:

The land of the Shadow.... :icon_flower:

The purpose of the Thousand Years ( Christ) for mine , is LIFE.

Just depends, When in time , you may believe that to be.

And yes,  those who do NOT believe are Indeed ,asleep, Dead In NOT knowing WHO their Savior IS, Walking Dead.

:icon_flower:

[alihaymeg]

I see where you are coming from, but I can't help but think that there is more to being in the remnant that will judge the world than simply accepting Christ as savior. After all, He is the savior of all persons. Those who are part of that remnant will have risen to a higher order. The reason for the millenial reign (whatever period of time it actually is) is to finish the work of perfecting the human race by fire. Not literal fire. Fire represents a purifying force. That which is burned away is always the influence of the flesh. You are right to assume that we are not going to be able to get all persons to that level in this age. That does not mean that none will achieve it. The bulk of the new testament is about becoming holy as He is holy. It was not stressed in vein. We are meant to achieve it here and now. Those who do will be the remnant, not all who accept Christ. We will all have to achieve it in order for the ages to end and God to be all in all. No matter if it happens in this age, or the next, or the next, etc., it will have to happen for all. That is the reasn for the ages; to move through the stages of perfection.

[Shadowland]

Someone typed these scriptures.....let us take them apart.  Please reply to my questions.

Rev 20:1  And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. Jesus already did this!

Rev 20:2  And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

Rev 20:3  And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him,Is this the seal that was shut up...nuts where was that? .....that he should deceive the nations no more,...... till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. Why?   See Below! Rev 20:5.

Rev 20:4  And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Rev 20:5  But the rest of the dead( the walking dead????) lived not again until the thousand years were finished. when satan is again set loose???     This is the first resurrection.

Rev 20:6  Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years

[Taffy]

Someone typed these scriptures.....let us take them apart.  Please reply to my questions.

Rev 20:1  And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. Jesus already did this!

Rev 20:2  And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

Rev 20:3  And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him,Is this the seal that was shut up...nuts where was that? .....that he should deceive the nations no more,...... till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. Why?   See Below! Rev 20:5.

Rev 20:4  And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Rev 20:5  But the rest of the dead( the walking dead????) lived not again until the thousand years were finished. when satan is again set loose???     This is the first resurrection.

Rev 20:6  Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years

Speaks For me Of Law and Grace and , Specifically The Bondservant...Those who again Return, and Making Grace of No effect.

I cant Help But See Christ is the 1000 yrs,He is The END, The Completion of our Faith,. and satan being see likened to the Tongue ,That which Has the Power of Death, But Now defeated...unless ,we Return Once again to our Vomit....that which Doubts

???????????????????????????????????

[Shadowland]

Something to think about Taffy!  TY

[alihaymeg]

Rev 20:1  And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. Jesus already did this!

Jesus died and went into the realm of the dead and preached to the souls in captivity. He owns the keys to Hades (translated Hell but means the realm of the dead) and Thanatos which is death itself. If you simplify the statement, it is talking about an Aggelos (translated angel which actually means a messenger or envoy) who is sent with the key to lock death away so that it cannot trouble mankind for a while. Even though Jesus has had the keys (which is symbolic of the right to govern them, not a literal set of keys) He has not as of yet locked the grave and the realm of the dead away so that they cannot effect us. He is simply stating that He will do that for a season.

Rev 20:2  And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

All of these words translated to mean a person called Satan could be talking about a force or influence rather than a specific personage. That is something you should study for yourself. Drakon (Dragon) literally means dragon, Ophis (snake) literally means a snake, satanas (Satan) literally means adversary, and by these definitions you can guess that the language is meant to be symbolic rather than literal. All that is being said is that the influence of death will be removed for a time.

Rev 20:3  And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him,Is this the seal that was shut up...nuts where was that? .....that he should deceive the nations no more,...... till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. Why?

If I had to guess, I would say that the process of purification will require a little more exposure to the influence of death. The whole point of all of this is to lead us ALL to a state of purification.

Rev 20:4  And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Rev 20:5  But the rest of the dead( the walking dead????) lived not again until the thousand years were finished. when Satan is again set loose???     This is the first resurrection.

This seems to be talking about the remnant that will be selected for the first resurrection. These will be the people who have proven themselves worthy of becoming priests and Kings and reigning with Christ through the millennium. Verse 4 shows that it must be earned by revealing that these people have separated themselves from the influence of the world. Verse 5 proves who He is talking about by stating that this is the first Anastasis (resurrection). This word also carries the meaning of a lifting up in status as well as the traditional understanding of returning from death to life.

The walking dead are those who died before this time period. The remnant will govern the world and all who are still alive at that time. When he says that this refers to the first resurection, he is talking about the group selected to rule, not the ones who are dead. They will not be part of that resurection or exaltation to a higher office. Just look at the next verse if you have doubts.

Rev 20:6  Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years

This verse tells about those who are raised up to rule with Christ for the millennial age. It states that they will have no need of a second death because their perfection in Christ is already complete. It is also pretty clear that these people will be blessed and holy people which suggests that it is an earned privilege.

[Shadowland]

Snake = one who lies

Rise up oh ye people and worship me the King of Kings and Lord of Lords.
I will make unto you a clean conscious and lift you up.
When you praise me I will lift you up.
You are my free, my children whom I love.
Come with me and I will show you mercies beyond comprehension.
You will fly as the Eagle and give meat to those in need of me.

Praise the Lord! Wow....oh...neat!  That came into my brain!