The Book of Revelation

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Make that 2 Amen's........Blessings....

[Beloved Servant]

Amen.

1 Now this know, that in the last days perilous periods will be present,
2 for men will be selfish, fond of money, ostentatious, proud, calumniators, stubborn to parents, ungrateful, malign,
3 without natural affection, implacable, adversaries, uncontrollable, fierce, averse to the good,
4 traitors, rash, conceited, fond of their own gratification rather than fond of God;
5 having a form of devoutness, yet denying its power.
6 These, also, shun. For of these are those who are slipping into homes and are leading into captivity little women, heaped with sins, being led by various lusts and gratifications,
7 always learning and yet not at any time able to come into a realization of the truth.

[Molly]

"In the Last Days, God is
going to shake everything
that can be shaken so that only that which can not be shaken may remain."

-- Heb 12:26-27

[micah7:9]

The Word witnesses the Spirit and the Spirit witnesses the Word. Blessings....

Right, and to deny the origon of Revelation's historical and make it an internal goes against the witness of the written word. For it's a document dealing with Hebrew covenant, not internal life.

So you deny yourself.

What does what you said mean? "origin of Revelation's historical"?

[Dallas]

What does what you said mean? "origin of Revelation's historical"?

The origonal literary use of Revelation is the historical situation of Jerusalem and their destruction in AD70.

This is no longer considered a religous view, but as historical fact.

[micah7:9]

I have long since given up on historical facts when it comes to religion and theology. I do not believe that the Book is a book that concerns itself with historical facts. I believe man has to have those historical facts to make him believe.
Should man find what he claims to be Noe's ark I would not believe man; if Noe's ark is found, then the book is false, I say the same of the Ark of the Covenant.
God is Spirit and Jesus is my Redeemer. From Genesis to Revelation the Book is food spiritual food for the saints and believers to grow up in Christ and He is us; it is for our walk through the valley of death, His words are my rod and staff.
No I do not believe in historical facts when it comes the The Book.
Peace and Love Through Jesus.

[eaglesway]

For the Sons of Korah, Contemplating A Song of Darlings- My heart bubbles over with good words; I shall recite my compositions concerning the King; My tongue is the pen of a swift scribe."
(Psa 45:1)



Jesus answered and said to him, "Verily, verily, I am saying to you, If anyone should not be begotten anew, he can not perceive the kingdom of God."
(Joh 3:3)

BEHOLD I am making all things new!

Jesus answered, "Verily, verily, I am saying to you, If anyone should not be begotten of water and of spirit, he can not be entering into the kingdom of God."
(Joh 3:5)

And the spirit and the bride say, 'Come!' and let him who hears say, 'Come !' And let him who is thirsty come. Let whosoever wills, drink freely of the water of life."

"The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit."
(Joh 3:8)

Then said he unto me, Prophesy unto the wind, prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live.


My joy is full. Nothing can resist the will of the Almighty Creator and the Lamb. Alpha and Omega. All things gathered into one. That God may be all in all.

Begin with us Lord Jesus!

And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, bright as crystal, going forth out of the throne of God and of the Lamb: in the midst of its broad place, and of the river on this side and on that, is a tree of life, yielding twelve fruits, in each several month rendering its fruits, and the leaves of the tree are for the service of the nations; and any curse there shall not be any more, and the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, and His servants shall serve Him, and they shall see His face, and His name is upon their foreheads, and night shall not be there, and they have no need of a lamp and light of a sun, because the Lord God doth give them light, and they shall reign--to the ages of the ages.(Rev 22:1-5)

If we walk in the light as he is in the light, we have koinonea together, and the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin

`A new commandment I give to you, that ye love one another; according as I did love you, that ye also love one another; in this shall all know that ye are my disciples, if ye may have love one to another.' (Joh 13:34-35)

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9:  :thumbsup:

[Dallas]

I have long since given up on historical facts when it comes to religion and theology. I do not believe that the Book is a book that concerns itself with historical facts.

That's great! So that means the bible doesn't need to be true, or historically accurate because jeez, that makes things much easier to invent strange and fantastical new doctrines!

Seriously, if your base of knowledge isn't based on truth it's not based on anything, and so validates your beliefs as, meaningless.

Without reality the man in the moon is real...honestly I hope you re-read what you said.

No I do not believe in historical facts when it comes the The Book.

Have you ever read the bible, it's the HISTORY of a people! The Jews don't read it as a spiritual book, it's thier nations HISTORY. Just as you went to school to learn about you nations history the Jews history book is the bible. If it's historically inaccurate then so is the claims made in it and your beliefs are as false as worshiping a peice of wood.

[micah7:9]

I have long since given up on historical facts when it comes to religion and theology. I do not believe that the Book is a book that concerns itself with historical facts.

That's great! So that means the bible doesn't need to be true, or historically accurate because jeez, that makes things much easier to invent strange and fantastical new doctrines!
Friend, I believe the err is when you use words like "history and facts" as tho they are truth. The Book is real and becomes alive and nourishing, to the one who is seeking with a spirit hunger.
Seriously, if your base of knowledge isn't based on truth it's not based on anything, and so validates your beliefs as, meaningless.

Without reality the man in the moon is real...honestly I hope you re-read what you said.

No I do not believe in historical facts when it comes the The Book.

Have you ever read the bible, it's the HISTORY of a people! The Jews don't read it as a spiritual book, it's thier nations HISTORY. Just as you went to school to learn about you nations history the Jews history book is the bible. If it's historically inaccurate then so is the claims made in it and your beliefs are as false as worshiping a peice of wood.

I am quite sure to the Jewish people the book is history and is accurate for their belief, BUT the WORD of GOD through His Holy Spirit has much to offer the spirit filled believer in Jesus Christ. I believe all there history is  spiritual food for the believer.

[micah7:9]

I believe all there history is  spiritual food for the believer.

But you deny the reality of the writtings....

Mystisicm, next we are going to be using tarot and reading tea leaves too...this site is getting hokey :sigh:

You my friend accept the Bible as a history book and a religious guide. As for myself it is a Book of Life, full of treasures and riches for my spirit walk, yes the words in the Book are Spirit. Joh 6:63  It is the spirit which gives Life. The flesh confers no benefit whatever. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and are Life.

[jabcat]

good post, micah.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: AMEN Micah.... :thumbsup:

[eaglesway]

But their minds were hardened; for until this very day at the reading of the old covenant the same veil remains unlifted, because it is removed in Christ. But to this day whenever Moses is read, a veil lies over their heart;
(2Co 3:14-15)

[Novus-Ordo-Seclorum7]

I know that there are rules to this forum, but please remember that Humans all have their thinking mind to work with. and hopefully lead by the Spirit of the Father, (God).      That said-

Gary, @ tentmaker.org has much to say about how the words are written in the KJV. which is what most people have started with and formed their belief system on.   Which is not even close to being perfect in UR's understanding.  So when anyone says that they do not believe that the "book" is not history , and is for us to use for other things (Spiritual) or other, who are we to judge.

think of all the systems that the mother church made up out of their bible, and the KJV too.


So what that person said about it not being historical fact is ok with me too.
We all know that "ALL HISTORY IS WRITTEN BY THE WINNERS" Just like in our own history of the USA , which is some real messed up "facts" in history. and a lot of out and out Lies. by our own government....

A NEW ORDER HAS BEGUN IN AMERICA. for better or worse

[WhiteWings]

think of all the systems that the mother church made up out of their bible, and the KJV too.

I'm getting more and more convinced it are not really translation errors. Pagan beliefs slipped in an that why thing are translated wrong on purpose. Partly. :2c:

[eaglesway]

     Our mother is the New Jerusalem from above, who is free. The sooner someone understands the difference between that harlot, Babylon, and the city of God that is "coming down out of the heavens adorned as a Bride for the Bridegroom- dressed in fine linen, the righteous acts of the saints"; the sooner they will understand "His kind intention which He purposed in Himself", the summing up of all things in Christ.

The histories of the "churches" (often synagogues of Satan, bearing living names but more like open graves in the night) of men do not often include the true stories of the "ecclesia" of God, called out to suffer with Him, outside the camp. Babylon means "confusion" or "confusion by mixture". As WW posted, the pagan mixture of the harlot is responsible for most translation issues. They translated as they had been taught, and ruled, by the "confused". Those who trace their heritage through that confusion are also "confused".

The confusion vanishes, when "the veil" is removed- and we behold His face in single hearted love of our betrothal. Then we are truly "bound to Christ" in "first love". Rember in the song of Solomon how the Shulamite girl wanders the street being cuffed about by the watchmen who cannot understand her passionate search for her "beloved"? This is the fate of all who "Come out of her".

     First the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of God sets us free from confusion and binds us to Christ as the Bride. Then we join the Wedding Feast. We must have our wicks trimmed(prophetic awareness, "Today, if you hear His voice- Everyday). hen we must have our vessel full of oil(walk in the Spirit, be ye filled with the Spirit). Then we become the Lamp set on the Lampstand.  Our testimony agrees with the testimony of the Spirit. The Spirit and the Bride say "Come, drink freely of the water of life!"

[Novus-Ordo-Seclorum7]

Here, I think I can copy an article that says it much more clear in "todays" thinking.  "and the mother I was referring too is The Universal Church i.e. the Catholics"

Try this on for Light.

From Lenny's Meditations, 7/7/01
Neosho, MO

Let's talk about being born again. First of all, the words "born again" means that you were born spiritually at one time, but you died, and now you have been born over again. We were as spirits with God in the eternal, and then when we came into our earthen vessels, the earthen vessels destroyed our spirit and so our spirit became dormant within the earthen vessel and now the born again experience is just like the experience a man and woman have when they have intercourse. The sperm enters into the dormant egg that is within the womb and impregnates that egg. What I want you to see is that once that egg is impregnated, the sperm does not leave the egg, but the sperm has to stay in the egg and develop with the egg into a new creation, a new being. The egg itself cannot do that. It takes the egg and the sperm together to do that. It is the same thing in the born again experience. Our spirit is that dormant egg within our physical being and the Holy Spirit comes and impregnates our spirit, the egg, and the Holy Spirit has to stay there together with our spirit to develop into a new creation.

So many people think that it is just we alone who are trying to develop as Christians, but that is not true. It is the Holy Spirit and our spirit together that is being created into a new being by God. "Therefore, if any one is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has passed away, behold, the new has come" (2 Cor. 5:17, RSV). Up to this point, the egg was dormant within our physical being and it had to be totally controlled and ruled by our physical being, but now, as the egg has been impregnated and there is a born again experience, we have put off these things of the natural body. The natural has nothing to do with this born again creation that is being formed within our physical body. Our physical body has now become the womb, inside of which, this new spiritual being is being developed. It is not just God in us and it is not just our spirit, but it is a combination of our spirit and God's Spirit developing within us, bringing forth a new creation. A spiritual wonder is being formed and developed and increased within us to the point where we are birthed forth as a total new creation, and I believe that this takes place when the word of God, being sharper than any two edged sword, separates soul and spirit (Heb. 4:12).

The spiritual being within the soul, within the physical body, has now been developed to a point where there has to be a separation of the two so that the spiritual being can soar into the eternal. This is the work of the sword of the Spirit. That new spiritual being is learning to live in the eternal day, in the eternal now, while at the same time, our physical being is living in time, space and gravity. There's a tremendous difference between the two areas of life. The physical does not want to give up the control and the rule over the egg and the egg is not an egg anymore. It is a new spiritual being, the combination of our spirit and God's Spirit has developed and been brought forth. The two are still living together, but there is a clear understanding that the sinful nature is the sinful nature and the spiritual being is the spiritual being and there is a total separation between the two even though they are living together. There is nothing more exciting than the new adventures of this new spiritual being, which I call the life giving spirit. We are going to give life and light to all creation. For this purpose, we have been born again. For this purpose, we were created, and for this purpose, all of the cosmos is yearning for the manifestation of the sons of God to come forth and bring them life and light. The eternal day is gradually opening up to all of us and we see what our purpose is in life. Our God is not someone high above us in heaven, but our God is one and we are in that One. "for 'In him we live and move and have our being'; as even some of your poets have said, 'For we are indeed his offspring'" (Acts 17:28, RSV). We are from Him, in Him, through Him, and to Him. And as we move in His omnipresence, everything becomes life and light and love.

The flesh was the womb and the new creation has come forth out of the womb so the flesh has been totally put aside, but it acts like a mother that has to control the child. It is not so. We have to tell our flesh to step aside and be ourselves in God. We are spiritual and the flesh is natural. The flesh must recognize that it has nothing to do with the spiritual part at all. Just like the spiritual part sees that it has nothing to do with the flesh. We have to recognize that the flesh is not the mother. It has nothing to do with the spiritual. God is both mother and father! Just like we were codependent to our children. We gave them money and gifts to try to control them to a certain extant, so the flesh is codependent to the new creation that we are, and it will try anything to try to control that new creation. The more we feel sorry for the flesh, the more control the flesh has over us as the new creation. It is exactly the same thing as our feeling sorry for our children for what they have to struggle and go through. Just like we have to step away from our children and not be able to help them so that they have to totally depend on God, so the flesh has to step away from us as the new creation to let the Father have His perfect way with us. "For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings" (Heb. 2:10, KJV).

Jan and Lenny Antonsson
17178 Highway 59, Neosho, MO 64950 (Snail Mail)

[eaglesway]

I agree heartily with the article you put up, but I still don t get the mother /UniversalCatholic thing, are you being sarcastic? Hep me I 'm a lil slow on the uptake :o)

[Nathan]

I see we are to identify all dimensions of Scripture in their rightful order.  There is a natural truth there.  There was a Goliath, there was a David . .on and on.  Hebrews tells us God manifested his nature through the lives of men as living examples.  I see the Old Covenant of God as God manifesting his nature through the literal lives of men and in the New Covenant, God manfiests his nature through the "hearts" of men. 

Just as the tabernacle of Moses had three major dimensions to it, outer court, inner court and holy of holies . . .so there are three dimensions to God via Father, Son, Holy Spirit.  In the same way there are three major components that make up man through Spirit, soul and body.

So when I read Scripture, I see it also in dimensions of three in historical, moral and spiritual.  To separate one from the other would have the same affect as you separate one part of the three componants from man . . .it only results in death.  We leave truth incomplete when we choose to omit one or more factors to it.  Having said that, I also see that the Spiritual always has precedence over moral and historical. 

And, just as the rules of law change from the six days of labor versus the Sabbath day, so it is with seeing spiritual truth versus understanding historical and moral truth.  The former comes through revelation through relationship, the latter two come through study and reasoning.

Just my op.

[Novus-Ordo-Seclorum7]

The mother referral was meant to mean, that when the corruption crept into the system of God's Chosen , the ruling and controlling of the peasants became an organization called The Catholic Church ,"that mother" was what I was saying... not any bible whore , or meaning of any bible mother....

[eaglesway]

IMO The Catholic Church never had anything to do with God's Chosen at anytime. The "called out ones", or ecclesia were called out long before that thing called a "church" became what it became.

[micah7:9]

IMO The Catholic Church never had anything to do with God's Chosen at anytime. The "called out ones", or ecclesia were called out long before that thing called a "church" became what it became.

:thumbsup:

[WhiteWings]

IMO The Catholic Church never had anything to do with God's Chosen at anytime. The "called out ones", or ecclesia were called out long before that thing called a "church" became what it became.

I think they did. They oppressed and slaughtered them from the start.

[eaglesway]

Absolutely true!!!! How could I miss such a monumental aspect of the true history-- Thanks so much for the correction :o)