The Book of Revelation

[micah7:9]

I feel the need now, I have not read one of the post on this subject. I want to say how I understand the Book of Revelation.
I have know and followed Tentmaker for some time. I find it great and full of warmth.
I just signed off on a bible/christian..debate forum that had me going mad/insane trying to show how we do not have free will......well i logged off.
The Book of Revelation as it is given to me to understand, the uncovering/manifestation of Jesus Christ in me, in my walk NOW. I do not see it as a book of prophetic stuff to come, yet it is, in me; but an inworking in me NOW. It is a work being done to those saints who have ears to hear. I believe this.
The Book of Revelation, as Bro. Ray Prinzing has said is a Positive Book, I truely believe that.
Peace and Love Through Jesus

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: I agree.  :thumbsup: The key is in the very first line.......the revelation of, Jesus Christ. Where is He now? In us. So where is He being revealed from? In us. Blessings...

[WhiteWings]

the revelation OF
or
the revelation FROM

Translations differ on that. I think that one word can make quite a difference.

[CHB]

One thing that stands out to me in the first verse is the words "which must SHORTLY come to past".

(Rev. 22:6-20) middle of verse. "Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants THE THINGS WHICH MUST SHORTLY BE DONE". 

(Verse 7) behold I come quickly. 

(Verse 10) FOR THE TIME IS AT HAND. 

(Verse 20) He which testifieth these things saith, surely I come quickly

(Rev 22:16) "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the Churches".  This book was for the 7 Churches which were all Jewish.

I wonder if most of these things in Revelation hasn't already come to pass?  Did Jesus come back in John's day and resurrect all the saints or firstfruits and take them along with those who were living at that time as Paul says in (1Thess. 4:17)?

I have really wrestled with this question for some time.

If this happened, and I do not know for sure if it did but a lot of scriptures would make more sense if it were true.

Remember when Jesus told one of the disciples that if John tarried till he came what was that to them? John was the last apostle to be alive when Jesus came back if this is the case. 

Just some things running through my mind.

CHB

[micah7:9]

I just went through about 25 translations and they all read OF. I will continue to look, but should there only be 1 or 2  that read FROM, I will use OF being it is used more.

I understand that Jesus Christ is being revealed IN me. The speaking of  "to come to pass quickly;" happens quickly as I, or you begin to understand. It may be, that that coming will stop, and it does stop being revealed, when I walk out of this spirit of revelation with earthy thoughts, taking my eyes off Him, and I am assured everyday that I do take my eyes off Him, which is very dishearting. It is a great mystery to me, blessed and full of joy, but can be horrifying and give me great fear as well when the fighting is going.
But I have come to understand that the  apocalypse is fought in my heavenlies. Not just me, but in all the saints in all their heavenlies, it is from the overcoming that strength is drawn and forged.
This war that is being fought will bring the adversary down, death and the grave are brought to an end. There is Victory IN Jesus as I am brought through my lake of fire, where the purging out takes place, as the fire of God is turned up. Glory! I have come to find that I am a hard case, but HE LOVES ME just the same.
I no longer accept that this last Book of the Book as the"end of the world" book of earthy prophecy.
Peace and Love Through Jesus

[WhiteWings]

I just went through about 25 translations and they all read OF. I will continue to look, but should there only be 1 or 2  that read FROM, I will use OF being it is used more.

OF is used far more often. That's a fact.

FROM is used by CB and TNIV

(CEV)  This is what God showed to Jesus Christ, so that he could tell his servants what must happen soon. Christ then sent his angel with the message to his servant John.

(WNT)  The revelation given by Jesus Christ, which God granted Him, that He might make known to His servants certain events which must shortly come to pass: and He sent His angel and communicated it to His servant John.

[Molly]

1The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants...

--Rev 1



[his]"servants"

G1401
δουλος
doulos
doo'-los
From G1210; a slave (literally or figuratively, involuntarily or voluntarily; frequently therefore in a qualified sense of subjection or subserviency): - bond (-man), servant.

[jabcat]

This is a link to the Greek Interlinear, including the specific Greek word(s) and showing the breakdown of the translation -  http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/NTpdf/rev1.pdf

[micah7:9]

Molly I found this to be interesting in a study I was making on soul/spirit.
You referenced "servants" G1401=slaves.
the only time "slaves" is used is Rev. 18:13 and in Strongs "slaves" G4983(soma) which when followed I found that "save(d)" G4982(sozo) and "body" G4983(soma)
Body, slaves, and save(d) all I find very interesting. Peace

[Novus-Ordo-Seclorum7]

 :dsunny:

[Cardinal]

1The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants...

--Rev 1



[his]"servants"

G1401
δουλος
doulos
doo'-los
From G1210; a slave (literally or figuratively, involuntarily or voluntarily; frequently therefore in a qualified sense of subjection or subserviency): - bond (-man), servant.

:cloud9: Interesting the revelation of Him is shown unto His SERVANTS......

[Cardinal]

Molly I found this to be interesting in a study I was making on soul/spirit.
You referenced "servants" G1401=slaves.
the only time "slaves" is used is Rev. 18:13 and in Strongs "slaves" G4983(soma) which when followed I found that "save(d)" G4982(sozo) and "body" G4983(soma)
Body, slaves, and save(d) all I find very interesting. Peace

:cloud9: Particularly since it talks about whatever you give yourself over to serve, you are it's slave, whether it be sin, or the Lord. Blessings....

[Molly]

Molly I found this to be interesting in a study I was making on soul/spirit.
You referenced "servants" G1401=slaves.
the only time "slaves" is used is Rev. 18:13 and in Strongs "slaves" G4983(soma) which when followed I found that "save(d)" G4982(sozo) and "body" G4983(soma)
Body, slaves, and save(d) all I find very interesting. Peace

:cloud9: Particularly since it talks about whatever you give yourself over to serve, you are it's slave, whether it be sin, or the Lord. Blessings....

Yes, it is interesting.  We already have [access to] the mind of Christ.  What needs to be saved is the body?  It's almost enough to make one a Puritan. :laughing7:

soma--greek, 'body'

somatic [english]

1. Of, relating to, or affecting the body, especially as distinguished from a body part, the mind, or the environment; corporeal or physical. See Synonyms at bodily.

Somatic: 1. Relating to the body. a. As distinguished from the mind (the psyche).




Romans 12:1
I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.




"bodies"
G4983
σῶμα
sōma
so'-mah
From G4982; the body (as a sound whole), used in a very wide application, literally or figuratively: - bodily, body, slave.



G4982
σώζω
sōzō
sode'-zo
From a primary word σῶς sōs̄ (contraction for the obsolete σάος saos, "safe"); to save, that is, deliver or protect (literally or figuratively): - heal, preserve, save (self), do well, be (make) whole.



And this is literal--  :mshock:

Romans 12:5
So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.

[micah7:9]

GLORY!

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: We are saved/spirit/outer court
             We are being saved/soul/inner court
             We are going to be saved/body/Holy of holies

This is being made every whit whole. The reason death could not hold Him is because He had already accomplished this before He ever went to the cross, which is what the mount of Transfiguration was displaying.

The reason His garments shone, is because it was a natural witness for what had already happened spiritually. The inner man who is light and life, shone thru the "denser" natural man and his garments (the soul is the "garment" of the spirit). He didn't have any garments spotted (darkened) by the flesh/soulish things.

This is why it says to take care about your eye not being darkness too. The eye speaks of understanding that comes to us via the Spirit in the twinkling of an EYE. Also ties in with being changed (as we see/perceive thru the Spirit) from glory to glory.

As we see/perceive Him as He is NOW, the darkness brought about by the union of the carnal mind and the flesh, is consumed by the light of the mind of Christ and He is formed in us. Blessings....

[Molly]

Romans 8:23
And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.


"the redemption"

G629
ἀπολύτρωσις
apolutrōsis
ap-ol-oo'-tro-sis
From a compound of G575 and G3083; (the act) ransom in full, that is, (figuratively) riddance, or (specifically) Christian salvation: - deliverance, redemption.


1And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,

2And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.

3And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.

--Mat 17



5While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.

--Mat 17

[Molly]

8To me, though I am the very least of all the saints, this grace was given, to preach to the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ, 9and to bring to light for everyone what is the plan of the mystery hidden for ages in God who created all things, 10so that through the church the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly places. 11This was according to the eternal purpose that he has realized in Christ Jesus our Lord, 12in whom we have boldness and access with confidence through our faith in him.
--Eph 3




"the plan"

G2842
κοινωνία
koinōnia
koy-nohn-ee'-ah
From G2844; partnership, that is, (literally) participation, or (social) intercourse, or (pecuniary) benefaction: - (to) communicate (-ation), communion, (contri-), distribution, fellowship.


[of the] "mystery"

G3466
μυστήριον
mustērion
moos-tay'-ree-on
From a derivative of μύω muō (to shut the mouth); a secret or "mystery" (through the idea of silence imposed by initiation into religious rites): - mystery.

[Dallas]

The Book of revelation was written as a church document by John, it was as, was Ezekiel, to be read side by side with Ezekiel, to give great reassurance and confidence to the Churches.

It was the promise of Jesus's defeat of the Old Covenant and the judgement that was about to take place upon Jerusalem for her apostasy. This was fulfilled in 70AD.

This isn't an internal spiritual walk book, it is a covenant legal document declaring the end of the old covenant and the establishment of the new.

The only way to understand this book, you need to understand the rest of the bible....seems logical  :laughing7:

It's not about what going on in me, it about what went on to the Hebrews for their part in the old covenant.

[Cardinal]

This isn't an internal spiritual walk book, it is a covenant legal document declaring the end of the old covenant and the establishment of the new.

:cloud9: Actually, it's both. Blessings....

[Dallas]

This isn't an internal spiritual walk book, it is a covenant legal document declaring the end of the old covenant and the establishment of the new.

  Actually, it's both. Blessings....

Just because I say Moby Dick is a spiritual book doesn't make it so. Just because you apply the words in the Book of Revelation as an internal personal thing doesn't mean that's what it's literary purpose is.

Peace.

[Cardinal]

This isn't an internal spiritual walk book, it is a covenant legal document declaring the end of the old covenant and the establishment of the new.

  Actually, it's both. Blessings....

Just because I say Moby Dick is a spiritual book doesn't make it so. Just because you apply the words in the Book of Revelation as an internal personal thing doesn't mean that's what it's literary purpose is.

Peace.

:cloud9: That's true......just saying doesn't make it so, unless of course, God said it. But EXPERIENCING it via the HS DOES make it so.

Joel 2 was fulfilled both naturally and spiritually on the day of Pentecost and it continues to be fulfilled the same way. What He speaks, He fulfills. Passover and the other feasts are fulfilled by the hand of the HS also. The Word is alive. Blessings....

[Dallas]

That's true......just saying doesn't make it so, unless of course, God said it. But EXPERIENCING it via the HS DOES make it so.

Joel 2 was fulfilled both naturally and spiritually on the day of Pentecost and it continues to be fulfilled the same way. What He speaks, He fulfills. Passover and the other feasts are fulfilled by the hand of the HS also. The Word is alive. Blessings....

Right, Joel 2 WAS fulfilled...not continual fulfilling. Why? Because it was an event, not a spiritual trueism. There wasn't a natural and spiritual, there was an event.

The whole idea that i recieve things via the HS is subjective mysticism. No different than people who believe that Odin gives them power, or Buddists who recieve visions. The reality seems second nature and the subjective seems to hold priority.

A true, historical and non-mystical usage of Revelation is the base for our understanding....then mystics can come in and make it mean whatever they want.

[jabcat]

Does this help at all - that every true "revelation" will line up with the scriptures?  The Holy Spirit will never reveal anything that is against the scriptures, whereas my imagination very well might (and has).

God's logos, rhema, and Word-made-flesh all agree - it's our subjective understandings with which we must be careful, be sure they "check out".

Yet we have this-

For God's Word is continually living and effective in operation;  it can cut much better than any two-edged sword;  it can penetrate even as far as to divide both the sentient being and the spirit into parts, both their outer connective part and their deepest inner parts;  and it can judge the feelings and thoughts of the heart.  Heb. 4:12

[Beloved Servant]

The whole idea that i recieve things via the HS is subjective mysticism.

Dallas, can you explain the Holy Spirit?

[Beloved Servant]

That statement precludes you from being a Christian.