The Anti-christ

[IceDash]

son of lawlessness, son of perdicten, son of satan, the one who oppose God to be the most high, he will exalted on god's seat in jew's home


So any idea who the anti-christ is?

[legoman]

Did you read all of the thread on 666 & the beast, that you started?  There is a lot of good info in it.

Anyway to your question:  Who is "the" antichrist?

Well there is no such thing in scripture as "the" antichrist (singular).  It is always just referred to as "antichrist" or "spirit of antichrist".  Read it for yourself in the KJV in 1 John 2:18, 1 John 2:22, 1 John 4:3, and 2 John 1:7.  Those are the all the verses that speak of "antichrist".  Now some other bibles add the word "the" in front of "antichrist", but that is not correct.

1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1 John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
2 John 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

Read the plain meaning of these verses and you will quickly see that what the church teaches about "the" antichrist is completely unscriptural:
- there are many antichrists, not just one
- there were antichrists "even now" in John's day, therefore antichrist is not only a future person/persons
- if one is a liar and denies Jesus Christ, he is an antichrist and has the spirit of antichrist.  Who can say they have never lied and never denied Christ?  NO ONE.
- there are many deceivers - these deceivers are antichrist

The antichrist is not some world leader who will rise to power and all will worship while he imposes a one-world governement/currency.  No.

Who is "the" antichrist?  YOU are the antichrist.  I am the antichrist.  WE are all the antichrist!  We have all denied Christ - we all have the spirit of antichrist.  That is, until we come to confess Jesus and know the truth.

Likewise, who is the son of lawlessness, son of perdition, the one who sits on God's throne... who is that person?  It is YOU.  It is ME.  It is EVERYONE.  We all deny Christ at some point and exalt ourselves before God.

But how do we sit in the temple of God?  What is the temple of God?


1 Cor 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

2 Cor 16 .. For we are the temple of the living God...

2 Thes 2:3 Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for (that day will not come) until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness[a] is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God.


We sit in the temple of God (our own body & self) claiming that we ourself are god!  We think we are in complete control, completely sovereign, exalting and worshiping ourself as if we were God.  We are the man of lawlessness, the son of perdition, an antichrist, when we fail to acknowledge that God is in control of our life and God is not in our temple (our body).  God is leading us whether we like it or not, but who believes it.

Make sense?

Legoman

[sparrow]

Great post, legoman.

[WhiteWings]

1 John 2:22
So every non Christian is an anti-Christ?

[sparrow]

1 John 2:22
So every non Christian is an anti-Christ?

Personally, I feel everyone on earth has an anti-christ spirit.
For me, the anti-christ is part of us, part of who we are, our carnal selves. The part that is doomed. The part of us that is dying and will be consumed by the lake of fire. That is why we suffer.


A person who lived in some remote jungle all of their lives and never heard the name "Jesus" offers kindness to his neighbor...that's the love of God. A Christian harboring jealousy in his heart towards his neighbor...that's anti-christ. I don't really see it as "christian versus non-christian" because a person's beliefs are not always reflective of their actions or the condition of their heart. God works in mysterious ways and we tend to want to package people up put labels on them. God doesn't work that way.

Every knee shall bow. All humans are touched by God and all humans must contend with their own "anti-christ".
Hope I'm making sense here..

[Molly]

7After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.

8I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.



17These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth.

18But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever.

19Then I would know the truth of the fourth beast, which was diverse from all the others, exceeding dreadful, whose teeth were of iron, and his nails of brass; which devoured, brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with his feet;

20And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows.

21I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;

22Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.

23Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

24And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

25And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

26But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.

27And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

--Daniel 7



The AC is the 'little horn' who speaks great words against the most High and wears out the saints of the most High.  And, he is already here, since the fourth beast (kingdom) was divided into ten horns.  He rose out of the head of the fourth beast (kingdom) after the ten horns.

[WhiteWings]

Yep, you do make sense with the jungle example. Very logical in my eyes.
But it also has a problem. What about an atheist that is just as caring as the person in the jungle?
The atheist lives in a country where s/he has heard often about Christianity but rejects it.
Is that an anti christ.

John 2:18 seems to say there are at least 2 types of anti-Christ.
It says there are many during the time of writing. (plural)
But it also mentions the one to come. (singular)
It doesn't say "the" or "a"; but to me it reads like anti-christ is used as a name.
Baiscly I read throught the ages there will be many anti-christs but at the end there is the biggest anti-christ of all.

[Molly]

John 2:18 seems to say there are at least 2 types of anti-Christ.
It says there are many during the time of writing. (plural)
But it also mentions the one to come. (singular)
It doesn't say "the" or "a"; but to me it reads like anti-christ is used as a name.
Baiscly I read throught the ages there will be many anti-christs but at the end there is the biggest anti-christ of all.

Yes, he's the 'little horn' and he's here.

The book of Daniel describes two systems growing up side by side.

[Molly]

2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

--2 Thess 2


"a falling away" [first]

G646
ἀποστασία
apostasia
ap-os-tas-ee'-ah
Feminine of the same as G647; defection from truth (properly the state), ("apostasy"): - falling away, forsake.


Apostasy!

There is only one other called 'son of perdition' in the Bible and that is Judas, who walked with Jesus and betrayed him with a kiss.

Jesus himself calls Judas the son of perdition.

John 17:12
While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.


"perdition"

G684
ἀπώλεια
apōleia
ap-o'-li-a
From a presumed derivative of G622; ruin or loss (physical, spiritual or eternal): - damnable (-nation), destruction, die, perdition, X perish, pernicious ways, waste.

[sparrow]

Yep, you do make sense with the jungle example. Very logical in my eyes.
But it also has a problem. What about an atheist that is just as caring as the person in the jungle?
The atheist lives in a country where s/he has heard often about Christianity but rejects it.
Is that an anti christ.

Yes. But.... an atheist also has the love of God... the atheist also can reach out in kindness..
All that is love... is from God. God works in all of our lives in different ways.
The "Christian" being not different from the "atheist" in God's eyes, in that respect, I believe.
We're all His children.
And He is doing His work in all of us.

Just because an person rejects christianity, doesn't necessarily mean they reject God.
They may be only rejecting the lies.... and not able (or maybe in some cases not wiling) to see the truths.

We're all on different paths...but again, thank God... every knee SHALL BOW! woo hoo!

Some atheists are more loving than some christians.
Little do they know where the love is coming from...but one day they will know and they shall bow.

We're all threads in the grand tapestry that God is weaving...we can't see the big picture now, but one day we all will.
It's going to be one heck of a beautiful tapestry.

Well... just my thoughts.

[legoman]

1 John 2:22
So every non Christian is an anti-Christ?

Yes you could say that.  And many Christians also have the spirit of antichrist, for they also deny Jesus.  Example:

"Jesus came to save the world right?"

"YES"

"But will he save the world?"

"OH no no, some will not be saved."

Hmm.  Big DENIAL right there - Jesus is not going to do what he said he will do.  They deny the saving power of Jesus - whether athiest or Roman Catholic or Protestant.

One has the "spirit of antichrist" - until, UNTIL, one has the "spirit of Christ".  Seems to make sense to me.  JMHO I could be wrong.

Legoman

[martincisneros]

There are many writings in the early Church that make the AntiChrist the equivalent of the Beast of the book of Revelation.  That's not a new teaching that came in with Dispensationalism in the 1830s.  Grant Jeffrey and Perry Stone in their books and videos document the prevalence of that teaching in the early Church although the early Church didn't teach dispensational premillenialism.  That came in later through Zoarastrianism.  I wish I still had the link to the online paper from someone in Australia that had written such a clear paper on that.  It was an amazing paper.  I haven't been able to find it in months and I'm starting to get angered that I didn't simply download that whole small website that was devoted to that paper. 

The AntiChrist according to John in 1John is anyone that denies the Father and Son and the incarnation of Christ Jesus in Bethlehem and in His resurrection.  So, that covers docetism as well as writings of the Enlightenment that tried to say that Jesus never existed.  That also covers Islam whose Koran and other writings say repeatedly that the doctrine of God having a Son is blasphemy and infidelity to God. 

As the reality of big brother government is growing larger and larger as the founding Fathers of the United States warned that if countries founded as republics ever degenerated into democracies then that would inevitably degenerate into socialism and then into dictatorships and many countries have tried to somewhat mirror the success of the United States's Constitutional Republic but have become democracies instead, I have to be honest with the facts that a singular individual may very well in fact someday sit at the top of all of the current world's chaos and bring some semblance of order to it -- although for sinister ends. 

Gary Amirault startled me a couple of months ago on the phone with acknowledging the possibility of one evil person ruling the world someday prior to the return of Christ Jesus that's promised in Acts 1.  We were talking about so many other things and he was a little pressed for time, so if he was looking for feedback at the time on that, I didn't have any to offer at the time.  And at the time, my thinking was still pretty far away from the possibility.  Were that to ever happen, though, there's nothing about that that necessitates a premillenial view of Revelation 19 that tries to make that spiritual vision of what's going on in heavenly places at God's right hand into the Second Coming.  Joel's prophecy about the same events in the Old Testament points instead towards the Outpouring of the Holy Spirit that's the result of fasting and prayer as what brings that AntiChrist system and all of his locusts to an end. 

Zechariah's prophecy about Israel beholding the one that they've pierced doesn't need to have a different fulfillment than it's had in each of our lives with God simply opening our eyes.  I'm saying this because the Hal Lindsey school of thought tries to connect things in that way that because the Beast is liable to be an actual individual that that necessitates their premillenial diagrams of how history will play out when their attempts of proving that the "c" that their "a" and "b" add up to leads to that conclusion isn't the way that most of the Body of Christ either historically or presently reads these Scriptures, even if they allow for the incarnated boogey man scenario that dances with the devil by the pale moonlight.

[micah7:9]

With no thought other than the thought and reasoning of one who has read the scripture and verse, of God's Word called the Bible (book), I will accept the revealings
of Sparrow and Legoman. Should one stop and consider with reason... the antichrist
most cetainly is man, Adam's nature. Should you seek elsewhere,you are seeking,
only a desire to form more excuses for man and his nature. THERE ARE MANY ANTI CHRISTS!  Great Peace to all. Dave

[willieH]

willieH: Hi Legoman... :hithere:

WOW bro!  I read this and it felt as if it were one of my own posts!

RIGHT freaking ON!   :first:

Couldn't agree with you more!  :goodpost:

Did you read all of the thread on 666 & the beast, that you started?  There is a lot of good info in it.

Anyway to your question:  Who is "the" antichrist?

Well there is no such thing in scripture as "the" antichrist (singular).  It is always just referred to as "antichrist" or "spirit of antichrist".  Read it for yourself in the KJV in 1 John 2:18, 1 John 2:22, 1 John 4:3, and 2 John 1:7.  Those are the all the verses that speak of "antichrist".  Now some other bibles add the word "the" in front of "antichrist", but that is not correct.

1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1 John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
2 John 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

Read the plain meaning of these verses and you will quickly see that what the church teaches about "the" antichrist is completely unscriptural:
- there are many antichrists, not just one
- there were antichrists "even now" in John's day, therefore antichrist is not only a future person/persons
- if one is a liar and denies Jesus Christ, he is an antichrist and has the spirit of antichrist.  Who can say they have never lied and never denied Christ?  NO ONE.
- there are many deceivers - these deceivers are antichrist

The antichrist is not some world leader who will rise to power and all will worship while he imposes a one-world governement/currency.  No.

Who is "the" antichrist?  YOU are the antichrist.  I am the antichrist.  WE are all the antichrist!  We have all denied Christ - we all have the spirit of antichrist.  That is, until we come to confess Jesus and know the truth.

Likewise, who is the son of lawlessness, son of perdition, the one who sits on God's throne... who is that person?  It is YOU.  It is ME.  It is EVERYONE.  We all deny Christ at some point and exalt ourselves before God.

But how do we sit in the temple of God?  What is the temple of God?


1 Cor 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

2 Cor 16 .. For we are the temple of the living God...

2 Thes 2:3 Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for (that day will not come) until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness[a] is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God.


We sit in the temple of God (our own body & self) claiming that we ourself are god!  We think we are in complete control, completely sovereign, exalting and worshiping ourself as if we were God.  We are the man of lawlessness, the son of perdition, an antichrist, when we fail to acknowledge that God is in control of our life and God is not in our temple (our body).  God is leading us whether we like it or not, but who believes it.

Make sense?

Legoman

In JESUS the name above ALL NAMES...

:laughing7:  willieH     :laughing7:

[WhiteWings]

1 John 2:22
So every non Christian is an anti-Christ?

Yes you could say that.  And many Christians also have the spirit of antichrist, for they also deny Jesus.  Example:

"Jesus came to save the world right?"

"YES"

"But will he save the world?"

"OH no no, some will not be saved."

Hmm.  Big DENIAL right there - Jesus is not going to do what he said he will do.  They deny the saving power of Jesus - whether athiest or Roman Catholic or Protestant.

One has the "spirit of antichrist" - until, UNTIL, one has the "spirit of Christ".  Seems to make sense to me.  JMHO I could be wrong.

IMHO misunderstanding isn't denial. It may seem odd but I think no Christian denies Jesus.
(Note: How can you be a CHRISTian without Christ?)
Some somehow read in the Bible that Christ isn't a real person or something similar.
Just as some read ET and others UR. I think none deny anything on purpose . They think they are on the right track.
The effect is the same. On that I can fully agree.

Question. Bit off-topic perhaps.
Is it correct to state:
- Anti-Christ=tare=flesh=sinner=goat
- (in) Christ=wheat=spirit=rightous=sheep
- People are dual nature

Then think about the verses where the goats and sheep are separated. The goat are kicked into the fire IIRC.
Mankind is just a beast (goat) until God put the spirit (sheep) inside.
God just undoes that by seperating goat and sheep again and permanently destroys the goats.
How insane does that sound on a scale of 1 to 666 ? :laughing7:

[legoman]

IMHO misunderstanding isn't denial. It may seem odd but I think no Christian denies Jesus.
(Note: How can you be a CHRISTian without Christ?)
Some somehow read in the Bible that Christ isn't a real person or something similar.
Just as some read ET and others UR. I think none deny anything on purpose . They think they are on the right track.
The effect is the same. On that I can fully agree.

Hi WhiteWings,

Yeah I think I basically agree with you.  Misunderstanding is not denial.  Many Christians believe in ET only because that is what has been taught to them.  They truly believe God is love, and can't quite reconcile how hell fits in, but they proceed on faith.  They know that God is all-loving, and follow that example, even though they don't understand hell or the Lake of fire.  Others fully embrace hell and are happy to send you there (they are a Christian without Christ!).    And of course what about the guy in the Jungle who has never heard of Christ, but believes there must be a God, and realizes he is not worthy, but is hopeful that God will save him?  I think he could have the spirit of Christ too, if only by divine revelation (isn't it always that way though?).  In anycase, only God knows their hearts, and who has a spirit of Christ and a spirit of antichrist.

Matthew 7:21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

Suffice it to say on Judgement day there will be a lot of surprises.  Many Christians who believe in ET will not make it into the kingdom on that day.  Many who believe in UR will also not make it in on that day.  And likewise there will be some who will enter into the kingdom who did not expect to.  They will be humbled to be part of the chosen few.

Mark 10:31 But many that are first shall be last; and the last first.

Belief in ET or belief in UR is not what gets you into the Kingdom of Heaven when Christ returns.  But if you still have the spirit of antichrist, you will not get into the Kingdom until you are converted and take on the spirit of Christ.  That is what the lake of fire is for.

Matthew 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

To be honest I don't think anyone can say for sure if they will make it into the Kingdom when Christ returns.  I know I myself am not sure.  And scripture tells us only he who "endures to the end will be saved."  This is speaking of when Christ returns, at the first resurrection.  This implies there is a process of conversion, which will take your entire life (or longer in the lake of fire).  We won't know if we are in the first resurrection until after our death.  However we do have the assurance that we will be saved, as Jesus is the savior of the world!

The best we can do now is "allow" God to guide us into his will, with the realization that everything that is happening is for a purpose and is part of God's plan.

Peace,
Legoman

[legoman]

willieH: Hi Legoman... :hithere:

WOW bro!  I read this and it felt as if it were one of my own posts!

RIGHT freaking ON!   :first:

Couldn't agree with you more!  :goodpost:

Thanks willie!

[Molly]

Gary Amirault startled me a couple of months ago on the phone with acknowledging the possibility of one evil person ruling the world someday prior to the return of Christ Jesus that's promised in Acts 1.

He must be reading prophecy because that is what prophecy says--that even the elect would be deceived if that were possible.

If it doesn't happen, it won't be for lack of trying--because they are trying as hard as possible to elevate man above God--and one man in particular, who Daniel calls 'the little horn,' 'the son of perdition.'

[legoman]

John 2:18 seems to say there are at least 2 types of anti-Christ.
It says there are many during the time of writing. (plural)
But it also mentions the one to come. (singular)
It doesn't say "the" or "a"; but to me it reads like anti-christ is used as a name.
Baiscly I read throught the ages there will be many anti-christs but at the end there is the biggest anti-christ of all.

In John 2:18 it just says "ye have heard that antichrist shall come".  This could be singular or plural, or just generally speaking a "spirit of antichrist."

Regarding the possibility of one final really evil yet sneakily deceptive world leader dude(s):  I have no doubt it could come to that.  And this person or persons would probably have the "spirit of antichrist", just like all of the other really bad (and not so bad) leaders ... Hitler, Sadam, etc.  Its actually looking fairly likely that the world will go this way with all the new big brother technology, the united nations, all the NWO conspiracy stuff, etc.  They may even set up some "mark of the beast" buy/sell one-world currency system.  But I don't believe that is what Revelations is talking about - although on the surface, Revelations could be a shadow of things to come.

The beast in Revelations ties into this as well.  As I stated in another post, I believe the beast is us - our own ego's -  we believe we are in control and sovereign.  We succumb to our beastly nature.  The false prophet causes us to worship the beast... this is not talking about some final ONE THE ANTICHRIST.  It is talking about us worshiping our selves. 

Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

What is this great deception that is being talked about?  Most people would not be tricked into worshiping another human, yet everyone (at some point) has worshipped themselves.  We worship our own beastly nature as we think we are in control of our destiny.  We become our own god.

Anyone here feel like they have been deceived in their life?  Have you fallen prey to this great deception that "deceives the whole world"?  If you say no, then you probably are deceived right now  :winkgrin: Satan uses the false prophet to cause us to worship the beast.  Most of the population doesn't even realize this deception.  That is why it is a deception, because you don't realize it  :winkgrin:  It would deceive the elect if it were possible.

So when judgement day comes, many will see that they were deceived, and there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.  They will feel great shame over being deceived... but it will bring about humility and eventually, repentance.

JMHO
Legoman

[Akira Takahashi]

My mom says it's this guy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xf2asA2J85w

[Nathan]

Leggoman . . . dead on every comment bro.  Everyone that's been churched cringes in fear at the mere mentioning of the antichrist . .truth is . . .he's in every one of us.

Romans 8
Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.


If ya got a mind, ya got an antichrist.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Exactly..... :thumbsup:

[sparrow]

If ya got a mind, ya got an antichrist.

ha! That would make a great bumper sticker... :laughing7:

seriously though, that's really good, Nathan. :thumbsup:

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: That would make a good bumper sticker, LOL! I'm so tired of all the stuff on the net about who THE Antichrist is...  :sigh: Blessings.....

[Nathan]

I wonder how many pastors would honk at you and give you the finger for displaying it!!