Second resurrection

[marie glen]

Also of interest is how Firstfruits is the single sheaf of barley waved... (barley harvest)

And Pentecost, which came to be the beginning of "the church", is associated with wheat (as in wheat and tares) - and the first fruits of the wheat harvest .. and associated with the wheat harvest is two loaves (waved)

          the THREE harvests, not to be confused with the TWO at the "end of the age" and Revelation 14 - which is TWO harvest at Jesus' return.. the wheat gathered into His barn, and the grapes of wrath.. (the blood at the end of the chapter, oil? where Armageddon takes place, last great war-the fruits/consequences/judgment of man's doings)

But! we see the grape harvest again.. later! When Jesus hands the kingdom over to the Father.. so the Father can be all in all..

imo.. :gsmile:

[marie glen]

..I can't help thinking U.R. is THE key to understanding (fully) the feasts.. otherwise, the understanding is a bit off.. As with most/all? things Biblical?

...does ET believe 'souls' go to 'heaven or hell' at death.. then those in heaven - believers (some) are raised at Jesus' return.. but others not until the 1000 years are ended?  :Chinscratch: interesting.. strange, imo, but interesting.. so the unbelievers never even have a day in court? Some precious loved ones are screaming in agony even now!? NOT! ..but Jesus gives peace and joy.. which I take to mean it doesn't matter.. (I am being veRy, as in extremely, sarcastic. sorry.)

And, some folks, I think, believe each one of us has a first and a second resurrection. :mshock:

:Chinscratch: I'm convinced more than ever that U.R. is a/the key to understanding God's Word. ..And life. :Peace2:

[WhiteWings]

oil?

When you read about Pentecost in both old and new testament it often mentions: Farmers busy on threshing floors. Wine. Olive oil.
So while the focus is very much on wine all three are harvested in the same period of time. Likely grapes are harvested a few weeks before Pentecost.
Ultra purified top quality olive oil was used to burn the Menorah. And the oil flowing through it was seen as holy, HS.

Acts 2 is about Pentecost and speaking in tongues.

Acts 2:13 Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.

Wine isn't harvested. It's fermented grape juice. I must admit I don't know how long it takes to ferment juice into wine but I guess at least 2 weeks.
So Pentecost took place at least a few weeks after the grape harvest started.

[WhiteWings]

..I can't help thinking U.R. is THE key to understanding (fully) the feasts.. otherwise, the understanding is a bit off.. As with most/all? things Biblical?

Things can always be twisted in many directions. I would like to suggest that you read the sheep and goat judgement and after that share if you see any connection between that judgement and what was discussed in this thread.

[marie glen]

I do and I don't.. The same, except the tares includes all not yet saved since the beginning(?) but the goats I think of as being in the 'last' days scenario.. When Jesus says He will separate the sheep and the goats at His coming.. I believe it is an earthly separating. "He will send His angels out (at His return) to gather His elect from the four winds" - the wheat (the sheep) as opposed to "and they gathered to Armageddon"..

What think you?

[WhiteWings]

Matt 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy by thy name, and by thy name cast out demons, and by thy name do many mighty works?
Matt 7:23 And then I will profess to them, I never acknowledged you. Depart from me, ye who work lawlessness.

Matt 25:46 And these will go away (=depart) into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.



I think the sheep are the first fruits and the goats the second resurrection.
Both groups are Christians. The first group is obvious, the second group prophesied in His name so they must have been Christians too. And as we know all believers will see eternal life. Even those nasty ones not part of my denomination  :laugh:
The correction in Matthew is a nice word to research. It links to pruning, which once again brings us to farming (olive trees?)

[marie glen]

"oil"... it's all so connected.. yes? :cloud9:

I was thinking, however, or mideast oil, when mankind once again lets loose with split atoms.. at armageddon (all pure conjecture, of course, on my part).

One more note (although I'm still reading the web page article). on a personal level brought up by the page (inspiring) - Passover, one are saved.. Pentecost, the Holy Ghost Baptism, so one may walk the walk.. and Tabernacles, God resides.. :cloud9:

very interesting study.. thanks for posting it!

[WhiteWings]

I'm in no way trying to insult Jesus. Far from.
But He was like a broken record. He had sweet, short and simple teaching, He just rephrased in many ways.

[WhiteWings]

About splitting atoms. Well bloodshed started with Cain and never stopped. So I'll never try to prove we won't see a war in the Israel area. It could start just right now.

But I also believe His message was for, and could be understood by, people would couldn't split atoms. They managed to split harvested grain and nothing smaller.
Ok, perhaps the Pharisees were able to split hairs  :winkgrin:

[marie glen]

Matt 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy by thy name, and by thy name cast out demons, and by thy name do many mighty works?
Matt 7:23 And then I will profess to them, I never acknowledged you. Depart from me, ye who work lawlessness.

Matt 25:46 And these will go away (=depart) into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.


I think the sheep are the first fruits and the goats the second resurrection.
Both groups are Christians. The first group is obvious, the second group prophesied in His name so they must have been Christians too.
The correction in Matthew is a nice word to research. It links to pruning, which once again brings us to farming (olive trees?)

I just think they were not really following Jesus, so they will have their part with the unsaved. He "knows His sheep". But ultimately all will be His sheep.. all having been pruned, with the same sort of farming as the (firstfruits of the) wheat went through..

I think the 2nd resurrection is of all those who have not been saved (yet).

:Chinscratch:
Rev 20
12 And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne
13 and the sea gave up the dead in it, and death and hades gave up the dead in them

I think ultimately, as to 'class' there is no distinction (to God) between the folks saved during this life, and those saved later. That the division is for dramatic effect. You need (basically) more than one 'character' to have a good production/play/drama. (Truth proving.)

During the millennium, I believe His followers will be serving. Public servants, so to speak, politely or in a sense, called reigning. I also believe, because of the spacing of the Fall Holy Days, that 'day' of judgment (Great White Throne) will last about 500 years. And I believe by end of that 'day' most will have gladly bent the knee.. I can't help thinking it's only at end of that 'day' that it will be said, those (still) not believing will go to the lake of fire... Because who, or how many, after having experienced being resurrected from their grave, and having witnessed what surely(?) must be a very long day of the judging all things, how many will 'not believe'? Which is what it takes to have the name written in the book of life.

And previous to then, imo, there will have been no humans in the lof.. as the beast and false prophet of Rev 19 thrown into the lof at His return (imo) are institutions of men active at the time of Jesus' return (world body and biggest strong delusion of this age :smile: has turned christendom/western civilization on its ear).

So you believe there is no 'judgment' for the not yet saved? just lake of (purifying) fire? I figure but for the grace of God, there go I..

I see this whole thing - life and history - as a great illustration, a foundation lesson for all in heaven and earth. That God is both life and perfection. Imperfection, which came about within (the) rational creatures - choice being a side shoot of it - Yet imperfection is the opposite of life. (And the abyss?) And we are learning life from death/nonlife. (Good from evil; true from untrue/error/rending/death) - All of us learning that to turn away from God in any tiny way can only ever end in a wisp of self destructive smoke.. (apocalypse)

:dontknow: :dontknow: That's the way I see it anyway! :smile:

[marie glen]

I'm in no way trying to insult Jesus. Far from.
But He was like a broken record. He had sweet, short and simple teaching, He just rephrased in many ways.

Amen! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

About splitting atoms. Well bloodshed started with Cain and never stopped. So I'll never try to prove we won't see a war in the Israel area. It could start just right now.

But I also believe His message was for, and could be understood by, people would couldn't split atoms. They managed to split harvested grain and nothing smaller.
Ok, perhaps the Pharisees were able to split hairs  :winkgrin:

    :laugh2: :laugh2:

...no they couldn't but 'they' sure can now.. and, I think they/mankind did in rev 16:12-17 (but the description is a blend of its 1st time and its last?) which I believe is the same event as 13:13 :gsmile: but it's not recognized that the verse points to an office, not an individual. Also I think it is/was the "long sword" given to the 2nd horse and rider (war, a top element/seal of the latter age, the years of our Lord, A.D.) - It's my belief we are in a pause of the split atom used as warfare (rev 7:1, while many are being sealed on their forehead, from all nations, 'then', or and, 144,000 of Israel) (seal on forehead - 100% clarity? to go with the seal on the :HeartThrob: ? sorry about the heart, been hanging out at facebook too much.. 100% clarity, wouldn't that be awesome!!)
:Peace2:

[WhiteWings]

There also a rather weak, but interesting, study that goat can be understood as a young sheep. A sheep that needs training. Training = correction.

My take on LoF is that it means Lake of Life.
http://radical-reaction.com/MyChristianSites/LoL/index.html

It's, surprise, about cleaning. Fire and brimstone where the number one disinfectants in the ancient world.

[marie glen]

There also a rather weak, but interesting, study that goat can be understood as a young sheep. A sheep that needs training. Training = correction.

My take on LoF is that it means Lake of Life.
http://radical-reaction.com/MyChristianSites/LoL/index.html

It's surprise about cleaning. Fire and brimstone where the number one disinfectants in the ancient world.

:thumbsup:

At the waving of the one barley sheaf, all the crop was consecrated.. Not one kernal lost.. And not one grape. In the 'end', all being wheat/sheep. Ultimately all earth's harvest, one crop, one harvest..
:dsunny:

[WhiteWings]

My going back and forth all over the place is to show the evidence might be weak at some times. Could be misunderstood. But combined it's an unbreakable mesh.

EDIT: Want to add a goat is also a clean sacrificial animal.
If God was really angry I guess He would have used sheep and pigs.

[eaglesway]

"IMO this was the first fruits of the first fruits, and they ascended with Christ as intercessors, "caught up to His throne"- perhaps the 144,000."   "The tombs broke open, and the bodies of many saints who had fallen asleep were raised. 53After Jesus' resurrection, when they had come out of the tombs, they entered the holy city and appeared to many people."
But imo all they did was "appear" they showed no power of the throne. Perhaps this was just a representation of what was to come?

And imo how could they be the "first fruits of the first fruits" when.........
1Co 15:23 But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; then they that are Christ's, at his coming.

"There is nothing in the scripture that says whether they were resurrected temporarily or not. To insist on it either way goes beyond the pale of our knowledge, so it is useless to debate it."

Then imo a good part of our forum is useless, for much goes "way goes beyond the pale of our knowledge...."

"But, I also think the idea that God would put them back in their graves is a little strange. Did their bodies return to decay? Did they return to sheol? Just doesnt seem like God to me. Go from nothing to something and then back to nothing?"   

The way I see it imo, all of it belongs to Him and if it "be strange" so be it. The Bible speaks of no "resurrections" only of a first resurrection or resurrection.

Act 24:15 having an expectation in God, which these themselves also are anticipating, that there shall be a resurrection which is impending for both the just and the unjust."

Much of what our forum is for is discussion. Not establishing jot and tittle doctrine on peripheral issues. Discussing them is fine, as long as we keep the "spirit of discussion" in the discussing :o)

Something to note. The comas were inserted by translators. There were no comas in the original text, so it could be read...

"Christ(1), the firstfruits(2), those that are His at His coming(3) and then comes the end"(4) I say could be read this way, not "should be" :o). Also, in the Greek text there was no "the", in "the end"- it is another translator insertion and should be italicized like the NAS does with insrtions....and that is just another thought to consider.

When the Israelites took possession of the promised land, When they received the harvest they were to first offer a sheaf offering to the Lord with a male lamb(Lev 23). This was a "first fruits of the first fruits offering" imo. It was a "handful" of the first-fruits. I personally think it symbolized the day Christ, our promised land, was raised from the dead and took with Him many saints that were raised with him, who were seen around Jerusalem(Matthew 27:52).

"then comes the end".... "the end" in the verse is simply "telos". Same word Jesus used in Matthew 24..."then the end will come". In His usage of the word there it is refferring to a series of events that constitute the end so...

I think there are generally two major resurrections in "the resurrection" but they have "parts". The attempt to overcategorize them or "limit" them in specific terms may be simply specifying details of things not fully given, because in 1 Cor 15 itself, Paul clearly states there will be a wide variety in the resurrection(as a whole).

35But someone will say, "How are the dead raised? And with what kind of body do they come?" 36You fool! That which you sow does not come to life unless it dies; 37and that which you sow, you do not sow the body which is to be, but a bare grain, perhaps of wheat or of something else. 38But God gives it a body just as He wished, and to each of the seeds a body of its own. 39All flesh is not the same flesh, but there is one flesh of men, and another flesh of beasts, and another flesh of birds, and another of fish. 40There are also heavenly bodies and earthly bodies, but the glory of the heavenly is one, and the glory of the earthly is another. 41There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for star differs from star in glory.42So also is the resurrection of the dead.

Almost the whole chapter is about "the resurrection"- its nature, its elements, its conclusion. But the verses are not, imo, for setting jots and tittles of doctrine concerning these elements- but for establishing a general understanding of the principles and elements of a more complex picture we cannot yet see fully- as he often does.

If the scripture says there is a "first resurrection", and then speaks of another resurrection after the 1000 day, then I think a second resurrection is indicated by tbe verses that follow that..... but let each one form their own conclusion.

I still say to some extent we are speculating from our own perspectives.

For instance..... If the second death occurs after the first resurrection, what occurs to end the second death?

I mean, if one wants to make that all symbol and metaphor then for them this whole discussion is not relevant..

If there is a first ressurection followed by a second death, then I think we know "all death" must be followed by resurrection of some sort.

SO what I see thru the glass darkly is this.

Jesus said, "For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven."

Paul said, "So also is the resurrection of the dead"

So there is "the resurrection" as a term to include, generally all resurrection in Christ. Paull uses it. Jesus uses it.

But Paul says, almost in the same breath , describing "the resurrection" that it occurs, "each in its own order"- and gives the order, so to me it is clear that the resurrection includes categories, or "parts".

So it does go beyond the pale of what we kno to say either "there are no parts- there is only one resurrection" or, "there are exactly this many parts".

This doesnt mean we ought not discuss it. I love eschcatology. It means we ought not be so adamant and specific, after all the whole portion in Revelations about the first rez and the LOF is only a few verses long.

It was not given for forming specific facets of doctrine. It was given as a glimpse into the ages to come.

If there are specific insights into these things, I agree with White Wings and Marieglenn, they are hidden in the feasts- but there are also many possible interpretations of those things.

[micah7:9]

"IMO this was the first fruits of the first fruits, and they ascended with Christ as intercessors, "caught up to His throne"- perhaps the 144,000."   "The tombs broke open, and the bodies of many saints who had fallen asleep were raised. 53After Jesus' resurrection, when they had come out of the tombs, they entered the holy city and appeared to many people."
But imo all they did was "appear" they showed no power of the throne. Perhaps this was just a representation of what was to come?

And imo how could they be the "first fruits of the first fruits" when.........
1Co 15:23 But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; then they that are Christ's, at his coming.

"There is nothing in the scripture that says whether they were resurrected temporarily or not. To insist on it either way goes beyond the pale of our knowledge, so it is useless to debate it."

Then imo a good part of our forum is useless, for much goes "way goes beyond the pale of our knowledge...."

"But, I also think the idea that God would put them back in their graves is a little strange. Did their bodies return to decay? Did they return to sheol? Just doesnt seem like God to me. Go from nothing to something and then back to nothing?"   

The way I see it imo, all of it belongs to Him and if it "be strange" so be it. The Bible speaks of no "resurrections" only of a first resurrection or resurrection.

Act 24:15 having an expectation in God, which these themselves also are anticipating, that there shall be a resurrection which is impending for both the just and the unjust."

Much of what our forum is for is discussion. Not establishing jot and tittle doctrine on peripheral issues. Discussing them is fine, as long as we keep the "spirit of discussion" in the discussing :o)

Something to note. The comas were inserted by translators. There were no comas in the original text, so it could be read...

"Christ(1), the firstfruits(2), those that are His at His coming(3) and then comes the end"(4) I say could be read this way, not "should be" :o). Also, in the Greek text there was no "the", in "the end"- it is another translator insertion and should be italicized like the NAS does with insrtions....and that is just another thought to consider.

When the Israelites took possession of the promised land, When they received the harvest they were to first offer a sheaf offering to the Lord with a male lamb(Lev 23). This was a "first fruits of the first fruits offering" imo. It was a "handful" of the first-fruits. I personally think it symbolized the day Christ, our promised land, was raised from the dead and took with Him many saints that were raised with him, who were seen around Jerusalem(Matthew 27:52).

"then comes the end".... "the end" in the verse is simply "telos". Same word Jesus used in Matthew 24..."then the end will come". In His usage of the word there it is refferring to a series of events that constitute the end so...

I think there are generally two major resurrections in "the resurrection" but they have "parts". The attempt to overcategorize them or "limit" them in specific terms may be simply specifying details of things not fully given, because in 1 Cor 15 itself, Paul clearly states there will be a wide variety in the resurrection(as a whole).

35But someone will say, "How are the dead raised? And with what kind of body do they come?" 36You fool! That which you sow does not come to life unless it dies; 37and that which you sow, you do not sow the body which is to be, but a bare grain, perhaps of wheat or of something else. 38But God gives it a body just as He wished, and to each of the seeds a body of its own. 39All flesh is not the same flesh, but there is one flesh of men, and another flesh of beasts, and another flesh of birds, and another of fish. 40There are also heavenly bodies and earthly bodies, but the glory of the heavenly is one, and the glory of the earthly is another. 41There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for star differs from star in glory.42So also is the resurrection of the dead.

Almost the whole chapter is about "the resurrection"- its nature, its elements, its conclusion. But the verses are not, imo, for setting jots and tittles of doctrine concerning these elements- but for establishing a general understanding of the principles and elements of a more complex picture we cannot yet see fully- as he often does.

If the scripture says there is a "first resurrection", and then speaks of another resurrection after the 1000 day, then I think a second resurrection is indicated by tbe verses that follow that..... but let each one form their own conclusion.

I still say to some extent we are speculating from our own perspectives.

For instance..... If the second death occurs after the first resurrection, what occurs to end the second death?

I mean, if one wants to make that all symbol and metaphor then for them this whole discussion is not relevant..

If there is a first ressurection followed by a second death, then I think we know "all death" must be followed by resurrection of some sort.

SO what I see thru the glass darkly is this.

Jesus said, "For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven."

Paul said, "So also is the resurrection of the dead"

So there is "the resurrection" as a term to include, generally all resurrection in Christ. Paull uses it. Jesus uses it.

But Paul says, almost in the same breath , describing "the resurrection" that it occurs, "each in its own order"- and gives the order, so to me it is clear that the resurrection includes categories, or "parts".

So it does go beyond the pale of what we kno to say either "there are no parts- there is only one resurrection" or, "there are exactly this many parts".

This doesnt mean we ought not discuss it. I love eschcatology. It means we ought not be so adamant and specific, after all the whole portion in Revelations about the first rez and the LOF is only a few verses long.

It was not given for forming specific facets of doctrine. It was given as a glimpse into the ages to come.

If there are specific insights into these things, I agree with White Wings and Marieglenn, they are hidden in the feasts- but there are also many possible interpretations of those things.

By jove I think we got it..."42So also is the resurrection of the dead." There it is THE resurrection of the dead. Is there another resurrection other than of the dead? Just asking.  :Peace2:

[eaglesway]

Well, if you read the post, my answer was there :o)

IMO there is :"the resurrection"- the general state of being resurrected that will eventually include all(As in Adam all died so also in Christ shall all be made alive), and there is the "each in his own order" reffering to the various elements of that process which is "an administration suitable to the funess of times, the gathering together of all things into one in Christ".

IMO the first resurrection is only one part of "the resurrection"

[WhiteWings]

but it's not recognized that the verse points to an office, not an individual. Also I think it is/was the "long sword" given to the 2nd horse and rider (war, a top element/seal of the latter age, the years of our Lord, A.D.) -

You seem to like this kinda stuff so I have another war-puzzle for you.
When reading about horses they are most often linked to colors.
Compare those colors to colors of present day flags. To get you started in a big way, look for a flag with with a big sword on it :swordfight:

[marie glen]

how could they be the "first fruits of the first fruits" when.........
1Co 15:23 But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; then they that are Christ's, at his coming.

Firstfruits, which is in that week of the Srpring Holy Days, is the single sheaf of barley waved... (barley harvest)

Day of Pentecost, which, as we know, came to be the beginning of "the church", is associated with wheat (as in wheat and tares) - and the first fruits of the wheat harvest .. [and associated with the wheat harvest is two loaves (waved) - "then they that are Christ's, at his coming, then the end, when Jesus hands over the Kingdom to the Father... that He may be all in all." A two fold harvest, two loaves?]

:Peace2: :smile:

[marie glen]

but it's not recognized that the verse points to an office, not an individual. Also I think it is/was the "long sword" given to the 2nd horse and rider (war, a top element/seal of the latter age, the years of our Lord, A.D.) -

You seem to like this kinda stuff so I have another war-puzzle for you.
When reading about horses they are most often linked to colors.
Compare those colors to colors of present day flags. To get you started in a big way, look for a flag with with a big sword on it :swordfight:

I heard a teaching on this that compared the white to the RCC; the red to communism/socialism; the black to, not sure.. business? And the pale of green to Islam.. Not unreasonable.

But, I tend to see them a bit different, mostly horse and rider one - as I think of the seals as being the major elements of the latter age, which, imo, is the years of our Lord, A.D. (CE, as to how they changed the day's abbreviations to leaving out Jesus!)

So being the entire age we used to call A.D., in my mind, anyway, the white horse and rider with a crown (same word as in Rev 19) who goes forth conquering and to conquer ("triumphing over principalities and powers, making an open show of them") - not to say the shadow gospel hasn't ridden right alongside...

Then horse and rider two, a red horse and rider, who take peace from the earth.. war, man's constant unwanted companion, and this one "is given a long sword" or other translations, a "great sword" - I believe that is easy to see in this modern day/age; and yes communism/socialism is a huge factor in the war(s).

Then the rider on a black horse with scales, war's companion/follower, shortage and inequity-"but harm not the oil and the wine", luxuries for the wealthy.. (business; black suits of?)

All these continue their ride, once begun, to the end.. and escalate as 'the day' wears on.. They are described as a blend of what they are when they begin and what they are  fully mature..? (obscuring a lot of the vision/scroll for many days, as, in this way, things are recorded here, so early on in the narrative, which do not happen on the planet until veRy late days!? This is especially true of seal 6, if not true of any of the others..)

Then the pale rider and horse.. pestilence, which surely(?) includes chemical as well as biological, and when all is said and done, 1/4 perish. This one has a name "death" and the grave follows after him, including the mass grave. Which we have seen, and it sounds like we will continue to see.. and some translations say "wild beasts" - wild governments? terrorist regimes? but "beast" is the same here as anywhere else.. same word... (pale/or green)

Seal 5, the blood of the martyrs, like that of Abel cries out to God.. and He says, wait until the full number of martyrs is in.. metaphor.. just like the horses..

And seal 6, which I believe goes totally missed but was huGe, I believe was that first splitting of the atom. I believe it is also Rev 13:13-pointing to an office, not an individual as thought.. also is the long or great sword given to war/red horse and rider-communism a big factor of/red.

And what follows this seal 6? - a pause/interlude, "four angels hold back the winds from harming/blowing upon, the earth, sea or trees..
Which is where I believe we are, currently, and have been for a while. Meanwhile - the sealing upon the foreheads of a great crowd from all nations? and of 144,000 of Israel. (Mt 23:39?) And a great Spirit of praise and worship is poured out? experienced? As they are "before the throne" which imo, is worship. Not literal.

But lately I believe we are moving on to 8:1-4, not 5-6, not yet..

I did a study recently - https://bibleprophecy4today.blogspot.com/ - rev in pictures. Previously have done in outline, in lists, in articles, in poem.. :laughing7: when someone understands what i'm saying.. i may faint.. But I'm pretty convinced the insight was an answer to prayer "to know" so as to be able "to tell"... And there are one or two other things I'm praying to know (in order to tell).

The other day it seemed as though Babel Tower is like a barometer..? "Look, they are all as one" working together "and there will be nothing beyond them to do.." - when the world once again is 'one'? the system gone global..?
:Peace2:

P.S. - and the flag w/ the sword? Rev 20:4d.. the dove 'will' compatriot with the vulture? dove being world red beast/body of rev 13:1-10 (with its iron and bronze! of Daniel 2 & 7:7,19) - the last days ten divisions of (10 kings, toes) will (finally) devour capitalism (which went "pornos" and corrupted the 7 hills of earth; translated harlot, $ity babble.. whose forehead/psyche is all untruth? responsible for aLL slain upon earth.. the forehead, that is.

[WhiteWings]

Surely you have seen those ISIS guys waving a flag with a big sword on it.

Wikipedia:  "An Islamic flag is a flag that complies with Islamic rules. Traditionally Islamic flags were of solid color. The most favored colors were black, white, red and green."

The color of the 4 horses of the apocalyps.

[sheila]

my  :2c: satan has his horsemen[flesh/carnal mind] and God has His[God's spirit as chariots and horses] one"s in the

corrupted flesh image...the other in His incorrupt spiritual image.

   the beast that was not yet is...will wage warfare and go to his destruction.....and the armies of Heaven with Jesus

  Christ will wage spiritual warfare[not war against flesh and blood] in righteousness.

   the serpent eat's dust[flesh]all his day's and can not not stand before the Lord[crushed under His feet] Man's dust

vessel returns unto the earth[dust] from which it came..but his spirit returns unto God......man is told to lift yourselves

erect[god as belly in earth] your deliverance draws nigh.  deliverance from the wicked one and this body undergoing this

death.

[marie glen]

..and deliverance from flawed character..! :banana: :dsunny: :cloud9:

[marie glen]

Surely you have seen those ISIS guys waving a flag with a big sword on it.

Wikipedia:  "An Islamic flag is a flag that complies with Islamic rules. Traditionally Islamic flags were of solid color. The most favored colors were black, white, red and green."

The color of the 4 horses of the apocalyps.

...that's what I meant.. the beheadings of Rev 20, verse 4.. harnessed/encouraged? (imo) by a world beast(body) to bring about its vision of ruling a 'peace on earth' without YHWH! which of course cannot ever work..

Perhaps you can see that I believe there is more going on than only the M.E. beast(s) who wave the black, white, red, green flags - and which another study says is the green horse and rider.. green being, in that study, considered to be their color..

Bible prophecy interpretation is first heard as a new and unknown language..?

[marie glen]

Surely you have seen those ISIS guys waving a flag with a big sword on it.

Wikipedia:  "An Islamic flag is a flag that complies with Islamic rules. Traditionally Islamic flags were of solid color. The most favored colors were black, white, red and green."

The color of the 4 horses of the apocalyps.

P.S. - the reason I believe there is more going on than the sword wavers, is because the 'big' beast of Revelation is a direct cross reference with the "4th more terrible beast" of Daniel chapter 7, and in chapter 7 it's pointed out it has iron teeth (iron in Daniel 2, was Rome) and has bronze claws (which scatter what the iron doesn't subdue) and the bronze in Daniel 2, or Nebuchadnezzar's dream in Daniel 2, is Greece. Most Bible prophecy folks agree on that, as to Daniel 2.. Daniel 7 :dontknow:

[Do the iron teeth remind any one else in the universe of the 'iron' columns of Rome?] So, because of the Roman/Greek (western!) in this big beast of Revelation, I believe it is/will be a western based 'big' beast/governing - but because we can see Rev 20:4d - beheadings, even now occurring.. yet the BIG beast is western (iron/bronze - roman/graeco) in essence.. yet beheadings become so very prevalent..? I can only assume a sort of 'partnership' must go on.. That's my reasoning concerning the sword wavers / sword flag wavers..
:Peace2: :gsmile: