Are these dead works from dead people of the dead church ?

[rosered]

I am  curious to what Jesus means when He calls the Church of  Sardis /red ones . The name "Sardis" means "escaping ones" or "those who come out"   you  have a name but you are  dead  ?
  Like they are sleeping   and there is a  verse that Paul also warns about some '' sick and sleeping in the  church/ escaping ones '' , those whom accepted Jesus Christ
and Hebrews 6  mentions     leaving behind those    carnal baby   things  and repentance  of dead works /deeds   and  press on  into maturity     being the seven  EYES    Spirits   in the Seven  Churches     Isaiah 11

Are they the red spots in the Love Feasts ,  the WHITE ROBE  GATHERING , they appear Holy before men and have a  good reputation   as ALIVE  , but Jesus says  you are dead to MY FATHER/GOD         , not Our Father ?

Saying this because its Jesus own words that says   If they change they will be given  White to wear as a covering  and   judges this  church  this is His judgments    and if   they receive   His Righteousness

Does this still apply to us to this day ?   
Revelation 3 Expanded Bible (EXB)

To the Church in Sardis
3 "Write this to the ·angel [messenger; see 1:20] of the church in ·Sardis [C the capital of the Roman province of Lydia in western Asia Minor]:

"The One [C the resurrected Jesus] who has the ·seven spirits [C referring either to angels or to the "sevenfold Spirit"—the Holy Spirit portrayed in his perfection; 1:4]

and the seven stars [1:16] says ·this [ these things]:

I know ·what you do [your works]. ·People say [ You have a name/reputation] that you are alive, but really you are dead.


2 Wake up! Strengthen what you have left ·before it dies completely [or which is about to die].


I have found that ·what you are doing is less than what my God wants [ your works are incompleted/unfulfilled before my God].

3 So ·do not forget [L remember] what you have received and heard. Obey it, and ·change your hearts and lives [repent].

·So you must wake up, or [L But if you do not wake up,]

I will come like a thief, and you will not know ·when [L at what hour] I will come ·to [upon; against] you.


4 But you have a ·few [few people; L few names] there in Sardis who have kept their clothes ·unstained [unsoiled; undefiled], so they will walk with me ·and will wear white clothes [L in white], because they are worthy.

5 Those who ·win the victory [overcome; conquer] will be dressed in white clothes like them.


And I will ·not [never; C an emphatic negation] erase [wipe out; blot out] their names from the ·book [scroll] of life [Ex. 32:32–33; Ps. 69:28; Dan. 12:1],

but I will ·say they belong to me [L confess their names] before my Father and before his angels. 6 Everyone who has ears should ·listen to [hear; obey] what the Spirit says to the churches.


  Have your name blotted out   is the same as not being His ?
Because your name is on the lambs book of Life      for it to be blotted out   by Him   correct?

[rosered]

I was wondering  how to make the scriptures  compare with scriptures

what if  the  7  candlesticks /churches are the       are   what we are to overcome in them  for those   rewards Jesus  announces  ,

  and this is    for the race Paul speaks of are the high calling Philippians  3 , 14I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.

15 Let us therefore, as many as are perfect/complete    , have this attitude; and if in anything you have a different attitude, God will reveal that also to you;

  Each Light is of the  7  IN BRIGHTER  LIGHT   in Isaiah 11   that Jesus Christ    received in HOLY SPIRIT  FULNESS [7 EYES] 


A ·new branch [sprout; shoot; C the Messiah] will grow

    from the stump of Jesse [C king David's father; the Messiah will restore David's royal line];

a branch will ·come [sprout; or bear fruit]

    from his roots.


2 The Spirit of the Lord will rest upon him 1[1 Sam. 16:13; Matt. 3:16 Then ·heaven [the sky/heavens] opened, and he saw God's Spirit ·coming down [descending and lighting/settling] on him like a dove].    the pouring out of Holy Spirit and fire on the day of pentecost,,, The rest Jesus speaks of in Him /Sabbath 7 th day   fulness rest from your labours and works follow


    The Spirit will give him 2 wisdom and 3 understanding, ·4 guidance [counsel] and 5 power.

    The Spirit ·will teach him 6 to know [L of knowledge] and 7·respect [the fear of] the Lord.



3 ·This king will be glad to [L He will gladly/with delight] ·obey [revere; fear] the Lord.

He will not judge by ·the way things look [appearances; L the vision of his eyes]

    or decide by ·what he hears [L the hearing of his ears].

4 But he will judge the poor ·honestly [with justice/righteousness];

    he will be ·fair [upright; just; fair] in his decisions for the ·poor [oppressed; meek] people of the ·land [or earth].

·At his command evil people will be punished [L He will strike the earth with the rod/scepter of his mouth],


    and by ·his words the wicked will be put to death [L the breath of his lips he will slay the wicked].

5 ·Goodness [Righteousness; Justice] will be like a belt around his waist,

    and ·fairness [faithfulness; integrity] like a belt around his ·hips [waist; T loins]. 

7 churches  in Revelation  are held in Jesus hand
  no one can take them out of my hand   John 10

...27"My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; 28and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. 29"My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.

[jugghead]

Hi Rose ..... I know it has been over three months since you posted this and I have no idea where the Lord has taken you with it ..... but if you have not yet come to an understanding of your opening question about the Church of Sardis being called red ones ..... I believe it has to go back to the beginning in Genesis where the nature of Adam is called ruddy/red

[rosered]

  Good   to see you posting Jugghead !!!

  Thanks ,   yes it has actually  been a year and 3 months  since posting this  !!   :laughing7:

I know that the more simplicity in Christ the better the clarity now!!   

  I have      seen the Adam  , Edom  root word  ruddy /red      but   not that connection , so thanks
Anything more to add would be appreciated  :dsunny:

[jugghead]

For me ..... I understand it in this way ..... we know that Christ has put to death the "nature" of Adam, but also, that nature casts a shadow, the spirit of Adam being a shadow to the nature of Adam "the flesh"

This is what I believe we see in religion, despite the fact that by Christ we have all been delivered from bondage (the nature of Adam by its death) the shadow (or residue) still lingers ..... and by the lingering of that spirit it has an effect of works on people ..... that they have to still do something rather than getting away from that spirit (that residue).

For you already know that we do not enter into His rest if we are still one (married) to the shadow rather than His Spirit who is in Christ

[rosered]

  I hope   to clarify  ,  to understand  your post    clearer   Jugghead ,,,

God knew   from the start  making what is weak   to show His strength/ power   and Glory to ALL ..

  For me understanding   this  would be  in Adam   ,   I honestly see this as a fall from grace  temporarily    ,   Adams eating the tree  of knowledge of good and evil opened up

  Death  and the power of satan /adversity to   destroy  the   good   though violence     /bloodshed      red ones ,,,,  the serpent of Old is a  red dragon [BEAST]

  Every    vile thing   that opposes the HOLY SPIRIT     ,  The  law  come as the shadow    to put to death the deeds of  the flesh and show man that there is NO GOOD THING IN THEM       ,    we have the  dead   works  of  Babylon       as proof of that


Still killing the prophets sent     by  God as a warning of the destruction to come doing evil from the heart of mankind  and   the evil that was found in him  , this weakness   intensified though the law    [Romans   6.7 8]  , the innocent for the guilty   ,   that started with Cain and Abel     

And will end in Christ Jesus     the CROSS  OF JESUS CHRIST is the turning around      ,  the   the path  that leads to Life [ tree of life ]     

  The shadow of the good things to come would be sending HIS SON  / LAST [ hear HIM ]       and should  respect HIM    ,
  For me    can only satan  accuse   over the Body of Moses [   the law  and  body of death    in Jude  ]   That only JESUS CHRIST THE LORD OF THE DEAD AND LIVING CAN   REBUKE    ,,,,
  for me this is the  Judgment    and we have the foretelling    , as  it was and is and  will be   , as some   are still     bound  in death / bondage to sin , and  some are still   bound under the Law   and some are in Christ     a new creation   

   For me personally I do believe that JESUS COME TO DESTROY the  WORKS OF SATAN    by rebuke   and   Judgment in mercy  on all  whom come with  bended knee   and surrender of will /desire    , and do believe the  tearing down of Babylon is also the last finished work of the   LORD JESUS  CHRIST  BY THE SPIRIT and power of God   His word is a fire    and So is His Holy Spirit and fire     , the world is  on fire  spiritually speaking    to me   in destruction    , no flesh pleases God  ,and the seed is Christ   / Word is a fire  and  if the Lord of Sabbath /armies of heaven had not left us this seed we  would   all be as Sodom and Gomorrah    ,  flying dust and ashes   



  and the very   result of this is dust and ashes   the  serpents food   when the flesh is done away with in Christ  , the      serpent will starve  and  burn out .

This is the short version without tons of scripture    , but there is scripture    lots of  testimonies  speaks the  same things     in CHRIST   , His testimony is the Spirit of prophecy         that our  fellow brethren     hold  in their bosom  by faith  in GOD  and have overcome the world by the LORD JESUS CHRIST IN THEM        Same seed / same son of God ...

[sheila]

 perhaps related to the woman riding on the scarlet beast...and one must remain for a short while........compromised church?

going to google more on Sardis....... :thumbsup:

[sheila]

dead=Christian in name only-void of the spirit......?virgins who run out of oil..light gone out...........

  escaped from Jerusalem..but didn't make it to the wedding feast?

[marie glen]

hi Rose,

did you say there's a verse which says red spots at your feasts.. oh I'm just being lazy.. it must be the verse in Jude.. I'll have to come back tomorrow.. (if I leave a post here, I'll be able to find the thread tomorrow if it's not on the forum home list, as you've gotten me interested..)
              :hiya:

[rosered]

  Hi Marie
  I was taking the red spots  as  drops of blood ,  or   drunken violence   against the white robes  as ,   pure white  is holy clean

I  was thinking about the  scripture ,  Though your sins be red as crimson ,  you will be makes white as wool    ..

I believe that spots   are just   certains behaviors  and beliefs in mankind that are not  permissible  , that Paul speaks of such being  the idols   of worship    the false prophets    deceivers  etc   drunken   wrathful  and NOT SOBER ...


  Like the man at the wedding   feast but with no garment  covering in   the blood of Christ   [ white robe ]      he was   exposed as  a red '' rock '' one  sinful state  still  under the law of death  and'    they Bind him hand and foot, and throw him into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'...
  this could be the spots in your love feast  to me  ..to me the love  feasts  is the union   in Christ  and they are the rock  that is not our ROCK   Jesus Christ

  I was surprised to see ''rock''   in the  definitions   for spots     stoney heart  perhaps ?


Young's Literal Translation
These are in your love-feasts craggy rocks; feasting together with you, without fear shepherding themselves; clouds without water, by winds carried about; trees autumnal, without fruit, twice dead, rooted up;

Isaiah 63Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

63 `Who [is] this coming from Edom? With dyed garments from Bozrah?

This that is honourable in his clothing, Travelling in the abundance of his power?' -- `


I, speaking in righteousness, mighty to save.'
2 `Wherefore [is] thy clothing red? And thy garments as treading in a wine fat?'
3 -- `A wine-press I have trodden by myself, And of the peoples there is no one with me,


And I tread them in mine anger, And I trample them in my fury, Sprinkled is their strength on my garments, And all my clothing I have polluted.
4 For the day of vengeance [is] in my heart, And the year of my redeemed hath come.

5 And I look attentively, and there is none helping, And I am astonished that there is none supporting, And give salvation to me doth mine own arm. And my wrath -- it hath supported me.

6 And I tread down peoples in mine anger, And I make them drunk in my fury, And I bring down to earth their strength.


Isaiah 63New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)

Vengeance on Edom
63 "Who is this that comes from Edom,
    from Bozrah in garments stained crimson?
Who is this so splendidly robed,
    marching in his great might?"
"It is I, announcing vindication,
    mighty to save."
2 "Why are your robes red,
    and your garments like theirs who tread the wine press?"
3 "I have trodden the wine press alone,
    and from the peoples no one was with me;
I trod them in my anger
    and trampled them in my wrath;
their juice spattered on my garments,
    and stained all my robes.
4 For the day of vengeance was in my heart,
    and the year for my redeeming work had come.
5 I looked, but there was no helper;
    I stared, but there was no one to sustain me;
so my own arm brought me victory,
    and my wrath sustained me.
6 I trampled down peoples in my anger,
    I crushed them in my wrath,
    and I poured out their lifeblood on the earth." 

comparing both translations here     .... both are beneficial    for  me  anyways   :friendstu:



  Jesus teaches   the way of peace  and fruits of the Holy Spirit    , it seems that those      still under the law are   prey  when they turn around   and  are  trampled  down by   the  violent  and drunken ones and the  LORD  is their helper ...    I can  certainly see this  as a judgment   of Christ  IN THE EARTH   of the   two  stones  ,

       from a dark /black   heart  to white / acquitted  one    free (someone) from a criminal charge by a verdict of not guilty.
"she was acquitted on all counts"
synonyms:   clear, exonerate, find innocent, absolve; More
2.
conduct oneself or perform in a specified way

Our hearts   are judged by the Law
  two tables of stone
  Jesus always says make the tree  good and its fruit  or make the tree corrupt a tree is known by its fruit   

  We know the law is good    by exposing the evil   and putting to death  the deeds of the flesh    that wars against the Spirit ,   till the perfect comes , being Christ  an the tree of  Life ,  giving  life from the dead ..

   Things  can  get so deep in meanings and symbolisms      Marie    , there is so much to learn !!!
  Love ya sister !!!!!!  :HeartThrob:

[jugghead]

Hi Rose,     just wondering, I have done some searching and I cannot find a direct connection between Sardis and red ones, just wondering how you made the connection?

[rosered]

Hi Rose,     just wondering, I have done some searching and I cannot find a direct connection between Sardis and red ones, just wondering how you made the connection?

Found it is the strongs  and  in another bible  dictionary... 
  here  is a  few     called out ones , red ones        http://www.bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Def.show/RTD/Easton/ID/3223

http://classic.net.bible.org/dictionary.php?word=Sardis

[jugghead]

Strike post number four by me ..... I think I may now see what you are asking. Escaping the mindset (or mind) of the world, but since religion is the only place they think they can find God (or the understanding of Him), they may have escaped the mind of the world only to become captive to the mind of men when it comes to understanding God rather than being taken captive by the mind of Christ.

Why "red ones"? Is it a sprinkling of the blood of Christ? and by it they are given a desire to know God but seek it from men rather than the Father, the one true source. This desire becomes a desire to work rather than a desire to know God.

For most Christians they ask how can I be a better Christian rather than How can I know God better? We know ..... as we get to better know Him we are made better automatically ..... getting to know Him is the imparting of Himself to us which purifies us.

[rosered]

Strike post number four by me ..... I think I may now see what you are asking. Escaping the mindset (or mind) of the world, but since religion is the only place they think they can find God (or the understanding of Him), they may have escaped the mind of the world only to become captive to the mind of men when it comes to understanding God rather than being taken captive by the mind of Christ.

Why "red ones"? Is it a sprinkling of the blood of Christ? and by it they are given a desire to know God but seek it from men rather than the Father, the one true source. This desire becomes a desire to work rather than a desire to know God.

For most Christians they ask how can I be a better Christian rather than How can I know God better? We know ..... as we get to better know Him we are made better automatically ..... getting to know Him is the imparting of Himself to us which purifies us.

:thumbsup:     Thanks brother ,Amen to know God  is to LIVE ..   though Jesus Christ  our gift of great grace  to mankind .
  I agree we are running a race  as Paul says I   always wondered if    those 7 hills /rulers  where the woman sits  and rides the beast [ red beast ]   being  Babylon   that the five foolish virgins went to buy of    and missed out on the return of Christ whom come in the night as all 10 slept , but those with Holy Oil were able to attend   the marriage supper of the Lamb ..

  When Jesus warns buy of Me   in Revelation  that golden oil    [Holy Spirit   that supplies the 7 lamps ..   the  5 wise   were given this  understanding in Rev   2 an 3  as what to   do and

what we are to overcome  in Christ    whom has given us the  7 churches [ eyes of   of Light    7 SPIRITS OF GOD ]    in Christ right hand of power

I have considered  both  in these studies  in the past   18  months  :dsunny:  God bless