Help?!

[Marian]

I want to believe in Universal Salvation, but I feel like I'm destined to hell.

As I child I believed in God. Then I turned away from him and led a life of sin. I had several extremely influental experiences, where I felt touched by the Holy Spirit or I felt overwhelmed with fear about hell and saw all my sins before me. They were labelled "psychosis" and immediately medicated away. Even after that I would still go back to my old sins. I did not manage to break with my old lifestyle. At the moment I use medication, because without it I have only an overwhelming fear of hell. With the medication, I still have fear, and also feel no love for God or people anymore. Whenever I pray to God, I have very symbolic nightmares that point to my mistakes and not being able to come back to God again. I have nightmares of dead butterflies (symbol for resurrection), nightmares of the door to the way of God being to small for me to enter, because I stayed on the Way of Satan for too long, nightmares about me walking in darkness and a figure of Light (Jesus? Holy Spirit?) leaving me in anger and disappointment.

I am quite sure the Scripture speaks in Hebrews of people like me. People who have had a real experience with the Holy Spirit and have seen their sins and still chose to go back to a life of sin.

Any words of hope?

[marie glen]

Any words of hope?

Absolutely!! I know I can say without doubt, that Jesus and the Father love you very much! As a matter of fact as I sat down to my morning quiet time with the Lord I felt a nudge to come online first thing.. which I usually don't do, as I've not had my morning reading and prayer time. Not that I have great answers and solutions - tho we all do, as the answer is Him.. and here at tentmaker we are convinced of His utter 100% goodness..
:Pray:
I have had some experience with the dark forces (fallen angels which love to torment us). I had to re learn every thing. Although I never believed in a 'hell', my battle was with left over issues from childhood. At my lowest point I felt like I was being beat over the head with a very sturdy spiritual two by four.

Ooops! back in a minute! :Peace2: :HeartThrob:

[sheila]

some medications they use for severe anxiety..and psychosis....shut down the part of the brain that feels. some mental/organic brain

  conditions give what they call..a 'flat affect' you feel nothing...1John 4;20..if our heart condemn us...God is greater than our heart

  and knoweth all things.

   the man that lived naked among the tombs..do you suppose he had feelings of love for his fellow man...out there in the desolate

  places he dwelt..or was it an overwhelming sense of anxiety/fear? Do you think he as a child went to temple...and had a background

  as a child among the people of Israel? Do you think it was a choice..that lifestyle..do you think he could of delivered himself?

   or,rather,did it take a visitation of Jesus to heal his broken mind?

     minds can get broke,too..just like limbs/eyes/ears.....do we tell the deaf...you could choose to hear? or the blind..you could choose

to see? or the crippled..you could choose to walk?

      psychosis is a break of the mind from reality....I had psychosis and depression when I was in a very religious legalistic  cult.

     worms eating me..if I did not measure up to their standards[they believed in eternal annhilation/death]  if they would have been

a et group and hell adherent..it would have most likely been visions of that to torment my mind and drive me mad.

   Funny thing though.......when I had the revelation of the salvation of all......I had dreams of an old man with maggots falling off of him

in a hospital..to the floor.

   the armies of this natural world use psychological conditioning to break the mind of their enemies. so,too, does the kingdom of

darkness .

    God bound up all men in disobedience......GOD BOUND UP ALL MEN IN DISOBEDIENCE...ALL MEN IN DISOBEDIENCE..

  did you hear that? ALL men..that means you,too!    IN ORDER TO HAVE MERCY ON ALL...and that no flesh shall boast!

             :HeartThrob:

[guest5685]

Sure! Marian :dsunny:

There is help and hope for you. God didn't create you because he wanted to destroy you or abandon you but because you were something special in his mind first. You were with him in the beginning before you came here and you are going to return home because that was a promise to you before you left the spirit realm. The promise was in Jesus and the reason you were drawn to that name to begin with because you were told he would keep you in that name.

UR is simply an understanding of that promise. I've had as Marie and others times where we have felt the dark side of rejection and unworthiness. I've had similar fears at a few times in my life. I'm not sure exactly what you are believing but I've seen some folks so tormented believing they have committed "The Unpardonable Sin" believing they are doomed forever but that is a religious lie. Unpardonable just is another way of saying you will be disciplined or punished but not forever forsaken. So if that is causing you torment that is one religious lie you can forget.

Back in my early walk I felt and suffered with a great fear of sinning and displeasing God. Yet I loved him or lets say I loved Jesus and in my ignorance saw Father as a Stern Judge. The Holy Ghost rose up inside and told me to get a certain mans tape series on Righteousness and play them as often as I could for 7 months. I wore out two sets of those tapes. During that time God told me to play a childhood game of MAKE BELIEVE. I was to MAKE BELIEVE the things he said about me were true and all negative thoughts were lies. It was not easy but the more I listened to those tapes the easier it got. It was like walking from one end of an attic filled with cobwebs toward a lighted window on the other side. While I played the game I just had to believe I was righteous and loved and sinless and accepted just as much as Jesus. I had to treat other thoughts as if it was some other kid telling me I was not that person. When you play MAKE BELIEVE you just refuse to believe those negative thoughts even if they FEEL true. I had thoughts bombard my mind telling me I'm sinning and I'm just searing my conscience and I'd feel cold sweat on my forehead and my stomach would feel tight and uneasy but the more I played the fears grew weaker. At the 7 month mark I came home from work fell on my bed and in tears told God. I believe but I don't know if I can do this any longer.
Suddenly the Spirit of God came upon me and said Death is Swallowed Up In Victory. From that day on it seemed that 90% of
the fears that blinded me to his love left. Did I still have good victorious days and some down days sure I think we all do iwhile we live in these fleshly bodies. It's then we have to hold fast to the things he has revealed to us as truth until those rotten feelings fade away and our sunshine appears in our soul again.

If you want to believe UR so you can choose to just live or continue in fleshly sins or fleshly practices you know are inappropriate
you won't have peace of mind. On the other hand if you want to renew or refresh your walk with the Holy Spirit you will come through this period. Are you holding any grudges or unforgiveness towards anyone if so forgive them and if that seems hard to do tell God to help you but be serious about it. That doesn't mean you won't ever remember what they may have done but you won't have resentment and bitterness rise up within you at the sight of them or the mention of their name. It will be more like yeah I ate that meal last week didn't care for it but so what it's over with.

I don't know what medication you take but some medications like Prozac will cause you to be more like a zombie. My wife was on it once and said she couldn't feel anything. Not love-not fear-not happiness just felt like a zombie. So check the side affects of any medication you may be taking. :eek: :eek:

Finally know this regardless of the dreams-nightmares-etc. GOD LOVES YOU-YOU ARE SPECIAL and if you had a walk with the Holy Spirit-YOU ARE SEALED WITH A PROMISE :banana: :banana: :banana: :dsunny:

PLAY MAKE BELIEVE IF YOU HAVE TO MAKE BELIEVE YOU ARE FEARLESS-LOVED-HOLY-RIGHTEOUS-ACCEPTED IN CHRIST
If you play the game long enough you'll find it's not really make believe-it's really true.

One last thing! Go to this website and read the poems given by the Holy Ghost they will wash your soul with his love:

http://www.gentletouchcreationsministries.com/prophetic-poetry.html

Hang around TENTMAKER's SITE and this forum and you will come out of that dark place in your soul! :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :dsunny: :dsunny:

[marie glen]

I'm back! :hiya:

Amen to Sheila and He1MyHeart's words of encouragement and hope! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

I used to suffer from long dark and nameless depressions.. they would go on and on.. but one day I felt like the Lord prescribed for me a spiritual prescription.. Or package, if you will. And He's built on it since too..

It was a prescription for healing.. (and for me it worked, but basically of course, what is needed is Him and truth -  for "the truth will set free" ..and it does!:) the focus was deep inner healing. We are all so very flawed / sinners! But it made it easier to forgive myself drugs and alcohol extreme use, because I was influenced by a childhood beyond my control.

But that doesn't matter! Because God's love - demonstrated in the life and words of Jesus - set this world on fire from the beginning! He knew we all would be born imperfect and would live imperfect lives. He chose - likely by some throw of the dice, to save some of us men and women during this lifetime. Obviously, He has chosen you. :smile:

Who is the poet who called the Lord, the "hound of heaven"? Forever was chasing him.. had always been pursuing him down the corridors of his life..

Marian, I think you should stick around here, at 'the tent' as it's sometimes called. Every one's friendly here.. no threatening going on.. And a place where logic - and His Word!! - pierces through some of mankinds most ridiculous lies.. With the main focus on that absolutely most ridiculous lie of an 'eternal' hell.. or any kind of "hell" whatsoever. We meet lots of folks tormented or have been tormented by this lie and false belief.

At the root of what I learned from the Lord how to escape the darkness, was that I had to let myself be set free. The cords of (His) love is a braid.. a threefold cord which is very strong.. Beneath us "are the everlasting arms.." We can rest in His love and His "finished work" of our redemption.

A work which the Father Himself built and finished "from the foundation of the world".. from the very beginning! Before He did any act of creating..

That's how important we are to Him.

[It's not logical, nor biblical, that His intent be to create a lost condition or torment for the majority of all mankind. And so many have never even heard of Jesus! So how can they believe in Him before they've been told about Him?]

He, if He is God, and we know He is, can only be perfect. Or He wouldn't be God! So the end result of all this (our lives.. and all human and angel history) can only be the very best one possible.

"The lion will eat straw like the ox, the bear will graze with the cow.." .."every one will dwell under their own vine and fruit tree and no one will bother them.." .."His kingdom will never end.."

Some of the best verses about God's true plan and intent to save all of mankind, and favorites around here are -

From 1 Corinthians 15, that great "His return" chapter, from verses 22 - 28 "For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then those who are Christ's at His coming. 24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy that will be destroyed is death. 27 For "He has put all things under His feet." ...so that God may be all in all."

Another verse we love around here is -

John 12:32 "And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all unto me." (It's my belief Jesus on the cross is an image strong enough to pierce every psyche.)

and 1 Timothy 4:10 "God is the savior of all"..

There's tons more because the longer we're aware of the true slant of God's Word.. from condemnation to love, rescue, redemption, the more we recognize the verses.. He "says" (Jeremiah 31:3) "I have loved thee with an everlasting love, and with lovingkindness do I draw thee.." .."the eternal God is your refuge, and beneath you are the everlasting arms; He will thrust out the enemy from before you, And will say, 'Destroy!'

I had to retrain my brain! the Lord showed me how we burn pathways in our brain, through thought habits and I realized I should deny and turn away from every negative thought. Every dark or negative thought I consciously drew a big x or three big x's over them and replaced them with a positive thought and a prayer and thanked the Lord. And He taught me how to rest. Resting in Him IS the prescription! (For me.) All these years.. resting has been the key.. in Him.. quietness.. The world, and our own mind, is so noisy!

He showed me a frame, three times a day within four seasons of the year (with their special spiritual emphasis) to only rest in Him and have some daily bread (His word) and new wine (His Spirit/prayer/praise)

Nowadays I follow a reading schedule that helps me focus by a sense of experiencing the new testament as I read it.. http://inner-monastery.blogspot.com/p/daily.html (reading the gospels as one, and have to post the rest  :Chinscratch: I forgot to finish).

Bless you dear.. I hope things improve.. I know they will! The Lord never lets us down! Yes we meet lots of folks here who have been tormented by the untrue doctrine of condemnation of most of mankind!

Only one more thing I would add as emergency aid, I think of it.. in times of bad stress - say roads are icy and grand daughter who just got her license is driving somewhere and a spirit (fallen angel) comes by and keeps threatening concerning it and I feel overwhelmed ..too overwhelmed to remember to say "be gone in the name of Jesus" for "Jesus is Lord and He has cut the cords of the wicked" (for me, for you, for all!).. when I forget how to do that consistently, that's when I simply pray His name "Jesus" over and over.. He has always come to the rescue.. and sometimes I think He urges us to specifically yield, yield, yield to Him.. We are His "living temple".. humble temples of thanksgiving praise and prayer.. and listening ("but believe no bad report") ..yes, yield, yield, yielding to Him.. down to the very floor of our being.. so we can rest in and upon Him in full trust ansd assurance.

"God is love.. and in Him is no darkness at all.." John 4:8 and 1 John 1:5
God bless you dear! may his peace and love flow over us all like a heavenly oil.. and fill our heart with the love cry of father, my father!

[marie glen]

It was like walking from one end of an attic filled with cobwebs toward a lighted window on the other side..

..there's a Van Morrison song line - "from the dark end of the street" (dark alley!) "to the bright side of the road.." I love that line!! :cloud9:

[Marian]

Thanks you all,  for your kind and encouraging words. I wish to make a turn to the Light and will take your advices with me in my journey.

[rosered]

Thanks you all,  for your kind and encouraging words. I wish to make a turn to the Light and will take your advices with me in my journey.

   Hi Marian ,

It is not Gods   desire that any should perish   ,   Jesus come so we could have a more abundant life now and security  of our fate  in the hereafter  .
     I consider Paul  whom was Saul  , Who honestly thought he was serving God    rightly in his own eyes   
   but murdered  many innocent souls  in ignorance   and  the LORD   forgave him and   gave him a new name and    clean heart  also  set him on the course to be a light for the gentiles [ all nations ]

  THIS is what God can do   for anyone  ,  anywhere and at any time   ,,,,

  Just knowing the Holy Spirit  has  given you comfort  ,and is teaching you to depend on God for everything   , every need , the poor in spirit   will be filled ,  tells me that you are    in His  desire ..  God bless

[bushy]

Marian, here is a post by Roger Tutt today that tells of his struggles which might help you, at least you'll know you're not the only one. http://tentmaker.org/forum/discussions-on-universal-salvation/snippets-from-the-hard-copy-ur-library-of-rodger-tutt/msg194469/#msg194469

[sheila]

Babylon falls because of the way she treated you.  He is binding up the wounds of His people..it is a ministry of healing...this

salvation of all...this ministry of reconciliation.  Comfort ye,comfort ye my people. Tell them their hard service is over.

[Ross]

Romans 8;38,39 " FOR I AM CONVINCED that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor rulers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, NOR ANY OTHER CREATED THING, WILL BE ABLE TO SEPARATE US FROM THE LOVE OF GOD IN CHRIST JESUS  OUR LORD."

God's love is immeasurable.
Psalm 103;12 As far as the east is from the west so has He put our transgression far from us."
His love NEVER fails.

[GodIsLove]

It is hard, and many of us have been there in the grips of despair.

God is love.

Love never fails.

Perfect love casts out fear.

And some more verses:

So do not fear, for I am with you; do not be dismayed, for I am your God.  I will strengthen you and help you; I will uphold you with my righteous right hand. Isaiah 41:10

When I am afraid, I put my trust in you. Psalm 56:3

Do not be anxious about anything, but in every situation, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God.  And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus. Philippians 4:6-

When anxiety was great within me, your consolation brought joy to my soul. Psalm 94:19

Humble yourselves, then, under God's mighty hand, so that he will lift you up in his own good time.  Leave all your worries with him, because he cares for you. 1 Peter 5:6-7

Tell everyone who is discouraged, Be strong and don't be afraid! God is coming to your rescue Isaiah 35:4

'For I am the Lord, your God, who takes hold of your right hand and says to you, Do not fear; I will help you.  Do not be afraid, for I myself will help you,' declares the Lord, your Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel.  Isaiah 41:13-14

God is our refuge and strength, an ever-present help in trouble." Psalm 46:1

I prayed to the Lord, and he answered me.  He freed me from all my fears. Psalm 34:4

Then he placed his right hand on me and said: 'Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last.' Revelation 1:17

:HeartThrob:

[rosered]

 :HeartThrob:
  Well Glory  to God ,,,,  Godislove ,   you always  touch my heart with your   tender and merciful  thoughts !!!

Marian ,   may you know Gods love from the very core of you being  to the outer edges of your earth ..

You mentioned  Hebrews  and those whom willfully sin , but there is another scripture   that you should also  consider   as well

I am quite sure the Scripture speaks in Hebrews of people like me. People who have had a real experience with the Holy Spirit and have seen their sins and still chose to go back to a life of sin.

Any words of hope?

This scripture  , I believe you are in the grips of fear by the teaching of  many whom   failed to show you the Love of God in their message  , men with no hope  ,    whom  preach no hope and    and make you feel as though  it is somehow up to you to save yourself   , when we KNOW   it is   the LORD JESUS CHRIST  whom saves us  all  , any  one
God is proving to us all   we cannot save ourselves  , and HE SENT JESUS   to give us a more abundant life in and though Him      ,  just keep on asking Him for all your help and needs     ,  God faithul as promised     


Rev "But I also have a message for the rest of you in Thyatira who have not followed this false teaching ('deeper truths,' as they call them--depths of Satan, actually). I will ask nothing more of you

Just hang on to what you got  already , that hope !  :friendstu:

[eaglesway]

It sounds to me like you r being victimized a a false spirit representing itself as God. The scripture in Hebrews refers to people who have advanced far into the kingdom of God and then turned away.

I dont think you hav ever been truly free in Christ(if I am wrong feel free to correct me)

Jesus loves you with an everlasting love.

[watchman1706]

Small steps Marian,
Mental Illness is not an easy road to walk as you yourself know. Don't make any grand promises or decisions. No-one has any control over our carnal natures. Only God can make real changes within us through the dealings we go through and there are no short cuts. What you will need to learn to reconcile yourself with is that the battle is the Lords, not yours. You can't look at your failures as character flaws or assume that God judges you for failure. He judges us not trying. We have to keep our hand to the plow and keep going. It is his will for you to succeed and changes in character take time. Small steady steps. Universal Salvation is his plan, not ours. He knows what we needed before the foundation of the world.

:banana: :banana: :banana:

[eaglesway]

 :iagree: :banana:

[rosered]

 :banana: :2thumbs:

  Amen Watchman  !!!!!!! some excellent advice  for anyone struggling  with acceptance  of Gods love   !!!!! :HeartThrob:

[Ross]

"  What you will need to learn to reconcile yourself with is that the battle is the Lords, not yours."

Ephesians 6 gives us our protection promises.
The helmet of salvation- KNOW that you are saved by Christ. He did not fail.
The breastplate of righteousness - Christ is our breastplate; He has put us in right standing with God.
The shield of faith - Christ faith is perfect, He has delivered us.
The belt of truth - we are saved by Christ, undeniable truth.
The sword of the spirit -  the word - read heaps of the word- the truth sets us free from failure by recognising that Christ did all this for us; He never fails.

As a dad I remember with my growing children their struggles with circumstances and relationships. These take years to develop. There is joy, anguish, struggle, excitement, and many other emotions in these times. The key point I kept making to my kids was that whatever they did, they are my kids.
The enemy tries to distract us from our unfailing love provided by Christ and our Father.

[guest5685]

"  What you will need to learn to reconcile yourself with is that the battle is the Lords, not yours."

Ephesians 6 gives us our protection promises.
The helmet of salvation- KNOW that you are saved by Christ. He did not fail.
The breastplate of righteousness - Christ is our breastplate; He has put us in right standing with God.
The shield of faith - Christ faith is perfect, He has delivered us.
The belt of truth - we are saved by Christ, undeniable truth.
The sword of the spirit -  the word - read heaps of the word- the truth sets us free from failure by recognising that Christ did all this for us; He never fails.

As a dad I remember with my growing children their struggles with circumstances and relationships. These take years to develop. There is joy, anguish, struggle, excitement, and many other emotions in these times. The key point I kept making to my kids was that whatever they did, they are my kids.
The enemy tries to distract us from our unfailing love provided by Christ and our Father.

:goodpost: :goodpost:

[sheila]

Wonderful Word!

[darryl]

try not to worry...I too have had doubts in the past about whether or not I'll make it to heaven but I am coming to the belief that God in the first place would not have made any human that was absolutely irredeemable i.e. in His grace and wisdom He only allowed humans to come into existence that He foreknew He would ultimately be able to save..e.g. even Hitler loved animals and had some good in him...even Stalin was known to be somewhat 'generous' at times...and I sincerely believe these two evil men will ultimately be saved...we are nowhere as 'bad' as Stalin and Hitler so there's plenty of hope for us !.

[rosered]

try not to worry...I too have had doubts in the past about whether or not I'll make it to heaven but I am coming to the belief that God in the first place would not have made any human that was absolutely irredeemable i.e. in His grace and wisdom He only allowed humans to come into existence that He foreknew He would ultimately be able to save..e.g. even Hitler loved animals and had some good in him...even Stalin was known to be somewhat 'generous' at times...and I sincerely believe these two evil men will ultimately be saved...we are nowhere as 'bad' as Stalin and Hitler so there's plenty of hope for us !.

  I love that you shared this Daryll    :thumbsup:

I always considered     what if ,,,,     what if ?  God had made you  or me  Hitler  , or Judas , or Stalin ,

   instead of  whom we are in our out of the Body of CHRIST  ?

For me when you consider them  and their walk [  broad path that leads to destruction/ death]

  You have walked a mile    in their shoes  ....... MATT 5 has taught me   to be like    Jesus Christ was     to  my Heavenly FATHER , His heavenly FATHER   PERFECT   LOVE    holy union   that cannot ever be broken    ,,,, 
walk a mile  or  walk two   

, We cannot even begin to love  our own perfectly  much less an enemy   with a carnal mind    , death is  all it knows  , but Love is stronger than death      ,  God loved the world  so much He gave  His Sons Life    for the dead  / carnally minded ones   who is  totally  fighting against the Spirit of Love  and Life    ,,

JESUS CHRIST IS THAT WORD OF LIFE ,

    Love Your Enemies
...40"If anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt  [ rob you of your peace in Jesus  ]  , let him have your coat also[ covering is Christ ]   . 41"Whoever forces you to go one mile, go with him two. 42"Give to him who asks of you, and do not turn away from him who wants to borrow from you....

The  unjust mammon [riches ] treasures of the world    ...   and the true riches of faith / treasures of your heart , why  you are loving  TRUTH  against all  adversity ?, as Christ was on His cross  FORGIVE THEM FATHER  they do not know YOU as I do !! ,  It is death for you but Life  for   this enemy,  any enemy of the Cross  of Christ   ,  so  will you be given the opportunity to   die   to self and  gain Christ   , the  HOLY  mind over the matter ...

The new mind of Christ is loving and righteous and  humble  and   forgiving   LOVING GODS DESIRE THAT NONE SHOULD PERISH   , considers  everyone where they are in their walk in this life   , those poor in spirit   , have gave up their own spirit   for His  Spirit of Truth and LIFE over death ..
Would you not want mercy if you had never known the Lord Jesus Christ at all ? 
Every knee will bow before him     , Its just some do bow the knee before  HIM  NOW in this life and has an advantage over those whom missed out while   they were here ..   this is my faith on them things  ,  evil had been purposed in God to PROVE  GOD IS TRUE and every man a liar   , and thief   and robber  spirit  working in them   to   die  on that cross as a sinner   in this  short   mortal life   fixed     , two  criminals on the cross   one to the left and one to the right  and Christ in the middle   [fixed  , set in Place  by GOD  , one is  not ever mentioned at that point  on[old man ] no longer is  , the other is given Paradise  with Christ that day  made new in Christ  for His glory !  ....

Satan / adversity cannot ever enter heaven again / what is HOLY  REMAINS HOLY and what ever is outside of that  , stays  outside the BODY OF CHRIST

and is dead to God  THE LIVING GOD ,,, till it comes to Christ [bow the knee  / surrender , gives up its  own  desires ,  to make alive from   among the dead , HE IS THE LORD OF THE DEAD & LIVING

ROMANS 14Do Not Judge Your Brother???

...8for if we live, we live for the Lord, or if we die, we die for the Lord;

therefore whether we live or die, we are the Lord's.

9For to this end Christ died and lived again, that He might be Lord both of the dead and of the living.

10But you, why do you judge your brother???

Or you again, why do you regard your brother with contempt???


For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God.... THEY WILL , all will   BOW THE KNEE  give GLORY TO GOD ,    so God can have mercy on all   ....

   :HeartThrob:

[eaglesway]

IMO, no one will be reconciled "because they had some good in them". Whether me. you. or Hitler.

God created the world out of "tohu and bohu". it was without form and void. The Spirit hovered over the waters.

He is recreating the world in the image of Christ and the fulness of Christ.

In some way, in Adam.... every human shares the guilt of Hitler and Stalin. Mankind is judged as one in Adam

Forgiven as one in Jesus.

I think in Adam we all share, in someway, the guilt of all. In Jesus, all are forgiven- to the point of innocence. Altho Hitler and Stalin may be among the last of the adversaries subjected, "As in Adam all died so also in Christ shall all be made alive, but each in His own order", when they are subjected, reconciled, converted, transformed- it will be as clay being transformed into gold.

My personal belief is that this is the gift of the Creator, to bring all His creation into the fulness of Himself, to transform the Creation into Family.

[guest5685]

IMO, no one will be reconciled "because they had some good in them". Whether me. you. or Hitler.

God created the world out of "tohu and bohu". it was without form and void. The Spirit hovered over the waters.

He is recreating the world in the image of Christ and the fulness of Christ.

In some way, in Adam.... every human shares the guilt of Hitler and Stalin. Mankind is judged as one in Adam

Forgiven as one in Jesus.

I think in Adam we all share, in someway, the guilt of all. In Jesus, all are forgiven- to the point of innocence. Altho Hitler and Stalin may be among the last of the adversaries subjected, "As in Adam all died so also in Christ shall all be made alive, but each in His own order", when they are subjected, reconciled, converted, transformed- it will be as clay being transformed into gold.

My personal belief is that this is the gift of the Creator, to bring all His creation into the fulness of Himself, to transform the Creation into Family.

:iagree: Perfect Plan-brought to completion! What was that saying on the A-Team "I love it when a good plan comes together!" :thumbsup:

[GodIsLove]

IMO, no one will be reconciled "because they had some good in them". Whether me. you. or Hitler.

God created the world out of "tohu and bohu". it was without form and void. The Spirit hovered over the waters.

He is recreating the world in the image of Christ and the fulness of Christ.

In some way, in Adam.... every human shares the guilt of Hitler and Stalin. Mankind is judged as one in Adam

Forgiven as one in Jesus.

I think in Adam we all share, in someway, the guilt of all. In Jesus, all are forgiven- to the point of innocence. Altho Hitler and Stalin may be among the last of the adversaries subjected, "As in Adam all died so also in Christ shall all be made alive, but each in His own order", when they are subjected, reconciled, converted, transformed- it will be as clay being transformed into gold.

My personal belief is that this is the gift of the Creator, to bring all His creation into the fulness of Himself, to transform the Creation into Family.

Beautifully said.