Tentmaker Forum

Our God is a consuming Fire

Fire Is A Beneficient Agent

How shallow is the common view of "fire" as only or chiefly a penal agent. Fire, in Scripture, is the element of....

"Life"....Isa. 4:5

"Purification"....Matt. 3:3

"Atonement"....Lev. 16:27

"Transformation".....2 Pet. 3:10

And never ever of preservation alive for purposes of anguish.

And the popular view selects precisely this latter use, never found in Scripture, and represents it as the sole end of God's fiery judgments! If we take either the teaching of Scripture or of nature, we see that the dominant conception of fire is of a beneficent agent. Nature tells us that fire is a necessary condition of life; its mission is to sustain life; and to purify, even when it dissolves.

Extinguish the stores of fire in the universe, and you extinguish all being; universal death reigns. Most strikingly is this connection of fire and life shown in the facts of nutrition. For we actually burn in order to live; our food is the fuel; our bodies are furnaces; our nutrition is a process of combustion; we are, in fact, "aflame to the very tips of our fingers." And so it is that round the fireside of life and work gather: when we think of home we speak of the family hearth.

Fire Is The Sign Of God's Being

And what Nature teaches, Scripture enforces in no doubtful tone. It is significant to find the Great Source of life constantly associated with fire in the Bible.

Fire is the sign, not of God's wrath, but of His being.

When God comes to Ezekiel there is a "fire unfolding itself" (Ezek. 1:4, 27) and "the appearance of fire." (Ezek. 8:2)

Christ's eyes are a flame of "fire" (Rev. 1:14).

The seven lamps of "fire" are the seven Spirits of God (Rev. 4:5). So a fiery stream is said "to go before God," His throne is fiery flame, its wheels are burning fire (Daniel 7:9,10). His eyes are lamps of fire (Dan. 10:6); He is a wall of fire (Zeph. 2:5). At His touch the mountains smoke (Psl. 104:32). And God's ministers are a flame of fire (Psl. 104:4...Heb. 1:7). It is not meant to deny that the Divine Fire chastises and destroys.

Purification, Not Ruin Is The Final Outcome

It is meant that purification, not ruin, is the final outcome of that fire from above, which consumes--call it, if you please, a paradox--in order that it may save. For if God is Love, then by what but by love can His fires be kindled? They are, in fact, the very flame of love; and so we have the key to the words, "Thy God is a consuming Fire," and "Thy God is a merciful God" (Deut. 4:24-31). So God devours the earth with fire, in order that finally all may call upon the name of the Lord (Zeph. 3:8,9)--words full of significance.

So Isaiah tells us of God's cleansing the daughters of Zion by the spirit of burning (Isa. 4:4)--suggestive words. And, so again, "By fire will the Lord plead with all flesh." (Isa. 66:16) And Christ coming to save, comes to purify by "fire." (Mal. 3:2).

Fire A Sign Of Favourable Response?

Let us note, also, how often "fire" is the sign of a favourable answer from God; when God appears to Moses at the Bush it is in "fire:" God answers Gideon by "fire;" and David by "fire." (1 Chron. 21:26) Again, when He answers Elijah on Carmel, it is by "fire;" and in "fire" Elijah himself ascends to God. So God sends to Elisha, for aid, chariots and horses of "fire." So when the Psalmist calls, God answers by "fire." (Psl. 18:6-8)

And by the pillar of "fire" God gave His law. And in "fire" the great gift of the Holy Ghost descends at Pentecost."

Fire Is The Portion Of All

These words bring us to the New Testament. There we find that "fire," like judgment, so far from being the sinner's portion ONLY, is the portion of all. Like God's judgment again, it is not future merely, but present; it is "already kindled," always kindled: its object is not torment, but cleansing. The proof comes from the lips of our Lord Himself. "I am come to send fire on the earth," for it is certain that He came as a Saviour. Thus, coming to save, Christ comes with fire, nay, with fire already kindled. He comes to baptize with the Holy Ghost, and with fire.

Therefore, it is that Christ teaches in solemn passage (usually misunderstood, Mark 9:43) that everyone shall be salted with fire. And so the "fire is to try every man's work." He whose work fails is saved (mark the word saved), not damned "so as by fire," by consuming what is evil, saves and refines.

The antient tradition that represents Christ as saying, "He that is near Me is near fire," expresses a vital truth. So Malachi, describes Christ as being in His saving work "like a refiner's fire." And so, echoing Deut 4:24-31, we are told that "our God is a consuming Fire," i.e., God in His closest relation to us; God is Love; God is Spirit: but "Our God is a consuming Fire"--a consuming Fire, "by which the whole material substance of sin is destroyed."

When, then, we read (Psl. 18:12) that "coals of fire" go before God, we think of the deeds of love which are "coals of fire" to our enemies. (Rom. 12:20) Thus, we who teach hope for all men, do not shrink from but accept, in their fullest meaning, these mysterious "fires" of gehenna, of which Christ speaks (kindled for purification), as in a special sense the sinner's doom in the coming ages. But taught by the clearest statements of Scripture (confirmed as they are by many analogies of Nature), we see in these "fires" not a denial of, but a mode of fulfilling, the promise--

"Behold, I make all things new."

-Christ Triumphant-

QuoteI beheld till the thrones were cast down and the Ancient of Days took His throne. His clothing is white as snow, and the hair of His head is like pure white wool. His throne is a blaze of flames and His wheels are burning fire. A River of fire streams and issues forth from His presence. Thousand thousands minister unto HIm, and ten thousand times ten thousand stand before Him.

Quote from: GraceFull on September 05, 2007, 06:44:07 PM
Thank you, Fine Linen. This is a subject that I began to "ponder" just this morning. Admittedly, your posts are frequently "too deep" for me, but God used you this morning to clarify my "murmuring ponderings." May I save and share with others the wisdom God gave to you for this post?

Hi there GraceFull. The entire post is the work of Thomas Allin, but reflects precisely what I grasp. You can find this post (page 200-203) and a whole lot more in the remarkable work by him in the following link....

Christ Triumphant by Rev. Thomas Allin

HERE (http://www.tlchrist.info/tallin.htm)

Our Father's Essence Is Fire

Our usual thought of fire has been that it is a purely negative force, working only destruction and loss. But our God is a consuming Fire and, I would remind you, the very same God is Creator and is Life and is Love.

A recurring word throughout the Scriptures is, "Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God is ONE. -Deut. 6:4-

*** one=echad= compound unity 

What does it mean that God is One? It means infinitely more than that God is merely one person, for one in the numerology of Scripture means unity, united, unfragmented, undivided.

It means that every aspect of God's being and nature is moving in harmony; His justice is not warring against His mercy, His judgment is not pitted against His grace, His wrath is not striving with His love. Every part of the plan, purpose, will and nature of God is ONE unified, united, harmonious, in perfect accord and agreement, all moving toward the same end, the one complementing the other.

The God of love and the God of judgment is the same God and both His love and His judgment are unified to accomplish the same purpose. This is why the Scriptures declare that God is both the "Saviour of all" and the "Judge of all". He is not the Saviour of some and the Judge of others. The very same God who is the Judge of all is also the Saviour of all. He judges all and He saves all! Can we not see by this that His judgment and His salvation are unified and harmonious, working together to effect the same end the restoration of all into God. His judgments are thus unto salvation.

There Is No Conflict: God is One

All the consecration of the Royal priesthood is connected with Fire, for all three sacrifices were accompanied with fire, and perfection is promised through fire. O my brother! My sister! I am afraid there is a great deal of comfortable Christianity that wants to be saved, converted, delivered, Spirit-filled, blessed, prospered, healed, and continually made happy; but it is not the Christianity of Christ.

Many Christians who love the blessings, the gifts and the thrills would like to receive the baptism in the Holy Spirit without the baptism of Fire. But what God has joined cannot be sundered. "He will baptize you with the Holy Ghost and Fire" -Matt. 3:11-; there is the promise, what will you do with it?

One Baptism

There is only one preposition in the original, not two as in the English, to show the identity of the two baptisms, or rather that there is but ONE. The Holy Spirit and the Fire are not two items, they are one, for our God is a consuming Fire. Wherever the Spirit descends he brings Fire in His train. "There appeared unto them cloven tongues like as fire, and it sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost". -Acts 2:3-4-

Fire Is A Symbol Of Purification & Transformation

It consumes the dross and tin of self, the wood, hay and stubble of ignorance and folly. "The Fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is." Everyone shall be salted with fire, baptized in Fire and in the Holy Spirit. Hence the Spirit came upon the disciples in a fiery form because they needed purification, purging, change and transformation. Those baptized with this baptism will know not only the glory and blessing and power of God, but the subduing, melting, abasing, refining, transforming, elevating effects of the Spirit's Fire.

Living Sacrifices

Therefore, to present our bodies and our lives a living sacrifice unto God, is offering ourselves as a burnt offering unto Him. Then the Fire from heaven can come down and consume that which has been presented unto Him and set it aflame and make us a fiery minister of God. -Hebr. 12:29- Our God is a consuming Fire! If we faithfully present ourselves unto Him upon the altar as a continual sacrifice, God will consume the whole life and make us an able minister to manifest His Life unto the world. "He makes His ministers a flame of Fire." -Hebr. 1:7-

The Royal Priesthood -J. Preston Eby-

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It is an interesting fact that brimstone in the Hebrew text is tyrpg, transliterated as gophriyth, which figuratively means the breath of Jehovah. And, to add to this imaginative picture, we find in the New Covenant, as you have so clearly presented, brimstone linked with purification. And so the Greek defines brimstone as theion, and lo and behold theion is rooted in Theos. So the Lake of Fire is the Lake of Theos radiating with His breath and Presence. Escape the Lake? Perhaps we would like to escape our God who is consuming fire.  :mblush:

Brimstone=

Gophriyth= The breath of Jehovah

qei'on/ theion = Divine incense with the power to purify

Theion/ qei'on rooted in qei'o/Theios

Theios=

Used by the Greeks in reference to the only true God.

Theios rooted in qeov/ Theos

Theos= The Supreme Deity from which we get Theology. 

The Lake Of Fire= The Lake of Theos

The Baptism Of Fire

Such is the reason for salvation by the cross, that is through death; but the great illustration here as elsewhere is to be found in the law, that appointed "shadow of good things," (Heb. x. 1.) which in all its varied forms of sacrifice asserts the same great truth, that only by the fire of God and through death can the earthly creature be changed, and so ascend to God. The offerings were indeed of different kinds, some of a sweet savour, which were offered on the altar in the tabernacle; (Lev. i. ii. iii.) while others not of a sweet savour were burnt on the earth, in some place outside the camp of Israel; (Lev. iv. v. vi.) figuring the varied relations in which men's works and persons might stand to God, and the varying place and manner of their acceptance to Him. But in either case, whether offered in obedience voluntarily, or required penally for trespass and disobedience, the offering was made by fire, and so perished in its first form to rise in another as pillars of smoke before God. If then all this was "the pattern of things in the heavens," (Exod. xxv. 40; Heb. ix. 23.) we have another witness that a transformation wrought by fire is yet being carried on in the true heavens, that is the spiritual world. For no Divine change can be wrought even on God's elect, save by "passing through the waters and through the fires" which are appointed for us, waters and fires as real, though not of this world, as those which burnt on the altar of old, or moved in the laver of the tabernacle. Our Lord can no more spare our nature than the animal was spared of old by the priest who offered it.

And as He in His own body, made under the law, did not shrink from, but fulfilled, the types of suffering, so will He fulfill the same in the bodies of those who are His members, that "being made conformable unto His death, they may attain unto the resurrection from among the dead." (Phil. iii. 10, 11.)

The Way For All Is Through the Fire

In any case the way for all is through the fires, for fire is the great uniter and reconciler of all things; and things which without fire can never be united, in and through the fire are changed and become one. Therefore every coming of Christ, even in grace, is a day of judgment. Therefore there are fires even for the elect both now, (1 S. Pet. i. 7, and iv. 12.) and in the coming day; (1 Cor. iii. 13, 15.) for "our God is a consuming fire;" (Heb. xii. 29.) and to dwell in Him we must have a life, which, because it is of the fire, for fire burns not fire, can stand unhurt in it. Therefore our Lord "came to cast fire into the earth," and desired nothing more than "that it should be already kindled;" (S. Luke xii. 49.) therefore He says, "Everyone shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt." (S. Mark ix. 49.) For this is the very "baptism of the Holy Ghost and fire," (S. Matt. iii. 11.) that "spirit of judgment and burning," promised by the prophet, "with which the Lord shall purge away the filth of the daughters of Zion, and cleanse the blood of Jerusalem; after which He will create on every dwelling place of Mount Zion, and on all her assemblies, a cloud of smoke by day, and the brightness of flame of fire by night; and upon all, the glory shall be a defence; (Isa. iv. 4, 5.) for "He is like a refiner's <page 82> fire, and like a fuller's soap; and He shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver, and He shall purify the sons of Levi as gold and silver are purged, that they may offer to the Lord an offering of righteousness." (Mal. iii. 3). And as by the hidden fire of this present life, shut up in these bodies of corruption, we are able by the wondrous chemistry of nature through corruption to change the fruits and flesh of the earth into our blood, and from blood again into our flesh and bone and sinew; so by the fire of God can we be changed, and made partakers of Christ's flesh and blood. In and through Christ we have received this transmutation; (Rom. v. 11.) and through His Spirit, which is fire, is this same change accomplished in us.

NOTE

It is surely a significant fact, that the two words used in Hebrew to express destruction, signify also, and are used to express, perfection; and that the word for a sacrifice by fire in Hebrew is the same as that for a bride or wife; e.g. Numbers xxviii. 6. By this double sense a veil covers the letter, veiling yet revealing God's purpose; for His purpose to the creature is through destruction to perfect it, and by fire to make it a bride unto the Lord. For a kindred reason some of the angels are called Seraphim, that is burning ones; for like the Lord, whose throne is flames of fire, (Dan. vii. 9,10.) they also are as fire; as it is written, "He makes His angels spirits, His messengers a flame of fire." (Heb. i. 7, and Psalm civ. 4.)

As With The First-Fruits, So With The Full Harvest

And as with the first-fruits, so with the harvest. The world to be saved must some day know the same baptism. For "the Lord will come with fire," and "by fire and by His sword will He plead with all flesh, and the slain of the Lord shall be many." (Isa. lxvi. 15, 16.) The promised baptism or outpouring of the Spirit must be judgment, for the Spirit cannot be poured on man without consuming this flesh to quicken a better life;

HERE (http://www.auburn.edu/~allenkc/jukes2.html)

Finelinen I love when you share what God has made a 'fire' in your bones!
I loved getting to talk to you face to face and see that fire in your eyes....

great stuff brother  :thumbsup:

kept

Quote from: Kept on September 10, 2007, 05:28:14 PM
Finelinen I love when you share what God has made a 'fire' in your bones!
I loved getting to talk to you face to face and see that fire in your eyes....

great stuff brother  :thumbsup:

kept

Hi there Kept. It was a pleasure meeting with you face to face and partaking together of God's great goodness.

How difficult it is expressing what in many ways is truly inexpressable in words. St. Paul writing of the majestic outcome of the Last Adam's reconciliation in Rom. 5 uses Greek compounds that are translated into English as "how much more" & "much more then" and cannot express the magnitude of that which goes beyond beyond.

1 Cor.3:11-17

QuoteFor other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; every man's work shall be made manifest; for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss; but he himself shall be saved; yet so by fire.

"Every man's work shall be made manifest; for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is." 

In the plan of God, fire has a very outstanding place. Even in the natural world fire is the greatest known purifier. Disease and filth may resist water and any type of disinfectant or fuller's soap, but nothing can withstand fire. The garment in Israel wherein was the plague of leprosy was to be burned with fire, -Lev.13:52-, because that was the only sure way to destroy the disease, and the house wherein was the plague of leprosy was to be pulled down and carried away to an unclean place outside the city, presumably the gehenna of fire. -Lev. 14:24-

Fire in scripture is often, if not always, a symbol of God.

QuoteFor the Lord thy God is a consuming fire... -Deut. 4:24-.

"Did ever people hear the voice of God out of the midst of the fire, as thou hast heard, and live?" 

"Out of heaven He made thee to hear His voice, that He might instruct thee; and upon earth He showed thee His great fire, and thou heardest His words out of the midst of the fire." -Deut.4:33,36- 

Ezekiel saw the Lord as a fire enfolding itself. -Ezek.1:4-

John in his Patmos vision, beholding the Lord Jesus Christ, saw His head and hair white like wool and His eyes a flame of fire. -Rev.1:14-

At the revelation of Christ from heaven with His mighty angels, He will come "in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: who shall be punished with everlasting (aionian) destruction (olethros) from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of His power." -1 Thess. 1:7-9-

When John the Baptist spoke of the coming outpouring of the Holy Spirit, he likened the Spirit to a fanned fire, saying,

QuoteI indeed baptize you with water unto repentance; but He that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: He shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire: whose fan is in His hand, and He will thoroughly purge His floor, and gather His wheat into the garner; but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire. -Matt.3:11,12-

When God appeared to Israel in Sinai, the sight of the Lord was like devouring fire. -Exod. 24:17-

When the Holy Spirit fell upon the waiting host at Pentecost, He appeared unto them in cloven tongues like as fire, which sat upon each of them. -Acts 2:4-

The number of places throughout the holy scripture in which fire is mentioned in connection with the Lord are numerous.

Fire is a symbol of the Glorious One

We should also be aware of the difference between natural fire, with which we are all acquainted, and the fire of God, which is spiritual and descends from heaven. The fire that burned in the bush of the wilderness in Moses' day was not the same kind of fire that now destroys our forests, or burns in our hearths, and the fire that fell upon the altar of God in the wilderness, was not the same fire that was offered by Nadab and Abihu. -Lev.10:1,2-

Neither is the fire that fell on Pentecost to be confused with the bonfire the barbarians made when Paul was shipwrecked on the Island of Melita.

The Fire of Pentecost and the Lake of Fire are identical in substance. Both are related to God, the only difference being in their purpose and work, the Lake of Fire to consume all dross and corruption, and the fire of Pentecost to sanctify, fill, and empower that which is being purified.

There is an illuminating passage in Numbers 31:23 that appears to be a type of the judgement we are considering.

QuoteEverything that may abide the fire, ye shall make it go through the fire, and it shall be clean; nevertheless it shall be purified with the water of separation; and all that abideth not the fire ye shall make go through the water.

In verse 22 we are told what things were to be committed to the fire for purification. The gold, the silver, the brass, the iron, the tin, and the lead--all these things were to be purified by fire when they were brought back by soldiers from battle, but those materials which could not endure fire were to be cleansed by water.

What we must understand is that the way into the Presence of the Glory Being is by fire. We cannot escape it, nor do we desire such a road, for we long to know Him! The way into the Tree of Life is through the fiery swords flashing/swirling in every direction. The experience of baptism in both water, and the Spirit, is to bring us to an end of ourselves, where we enter into newness of life, the Life of God Himself. The way to life is by way of death. It is God's way. All of us must pass through the flaming swords of His Presence if we are to dwell with Him.

Hey Fine linen.....great post!!

You know...I've heard it said before that each of us have aspects of our personality that cannot exist on the other side.  I think for some of us this sounds kind of sad, but when you really get to thinking........it's a blessing because all that is Good cannot be harmed by God.

I was lighting one of my scent diffusers the other day, and I was looking at the flame and noticed that the colors of the rainbow reside in the flame.  To me it just reminded me of the promise that was shown in Noah's rainbow also exists in the flame.  Another thing that I thought which is really symbolic for me is that the hottest part of the flame is a sort of a pale royal blue, which symbolizes the Throne as being the hottest part with the most extreme intensity.

Anyway, for those that are left all alone in the wilderness or on some desolate island.......Fire is probably the most precious thing to have (other than food and water) because it brings warmth, protection, and lifts your spirits when you're all alone.  I think the same is true for God.  We feel that we need Him most when we've been deserted by everyone else and we're all alone trying to survive.

Two big thumbs up for finelinen and sharing these thoughts :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

QuoteFor we actually burn in order to live; our food is the fuel; our bodies are furnaces; our nutrition is a process of combustion; we are, in fact, "aflame to the very tips of our fingers." And so it is that round the fireside of life and work gather: when we think of home we speak of the family hearth.

Oh and thanks for the Rev.Thomas Allin link, i'll be checking that out. :bigGrin:

It's surprising sometimes in the ways God chooses to kindle a purifying fire.

James 3:5Even so the tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth!

6And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.


This is showing fire in a negative view, however without such contention how could love grow and overcome?

Romans 12:21
Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

Hi stained glass i really enjoyed your take on fire in relation to the throne, also:

QuoteAnyway, for those that are left all alone in the wilderness or on some desolate island.......Fire is probably the most precious thing to have (other than food and water) because it brings warmth, protection, and lifts your spirits when you're all alone.  I think the same is true for God.  We feel that we need Him most when we've been deserted by everyone else and we're all alone trying to survive.

When i read this i thought of a few things:
When the heat of the sun warms up the air in the morning, creating a wind and even dew as the frost thaws.
How the Spirit of God brooded over the cold dark face of the deep.
How staring into a fire is so hypnotizing in a warm and familiar way. As if we are looking into a window of our past and future at the same time.

Quote from: StainedGlass on September 11, 2007, 03:13:07 PM
Fire is probably the most precious thing to have (other than food and water) because it brings warmth, protection, and lifts your spirits when you're all alone. 

For me personally, being near and gazing at fire results in a calming rest.

awesome study

:dsunny:

Quote from: GraceFull on September 15, 2007, 06:27:15 PM

For me personally, being near and gazing at fire results in a calming rest.

Same here, Gracefull.  I've always loved fire.  Even more so now.   :HeartThrob:
Yes, I agree GF- awesome study.

By Fire

"For behold, the Lord will come in Fire, His chariots shall be like the stormy wind, to render His anger with fierceness, and His rebuke with flames of Fire.

For BY Fire will the Lord execute judgment, and by His sword, upon all flesh: and the slain of the Lord shall be many". (Isaiah 66:15-16 Amplified)

"For, lo, Jehovah in Fire cometh, and as a hurricane His chariots, to refresh in fury His anger, and His rebuke in flames of Fire. For BY Fire and by His sword, doth Jehovah do judgment with all flesh, and many have been Jehovah's pierced ones." (Isaiah 66:15,16) (Young's translation)

There has been much misconception concerning the Fire of God, and while we would not dare to think we grasp all the answers, we would like to present some of the thoughts which God has quickened to our heart by His Sprit. For "BY Fire" will the Lord plead with "ALL" flesh. The word plead (Hebrew, shaphat) is correctly translated by Young as "do judgment," with all flesh. The word "JUDGMENT" actually refers to the corrective processes of God, the training up, the disciplining or girding up, bringing into alignment wayward creation. And in this great process of restoration, the Lord is going to use Fire as part of his dealing with us all.

Let me give you Moffatt's translation for this verse: "On the WHOLE WORLD the Eternal will pass sentence with His Fire and sword." I like the emphasis that is given for ALL FLESH, when he says, THE WHOLE WORLD - for not one person is going to miss the hand of God in this operation. But, the application of Fire is going to be far different than much of our past conception, or shall I say, of traditional teaching of error. For first of all, God has quickened to us the truth which has changed our understanding greatly, when He caused us to know that Fire IS REMEDIAL IN ITS PURPOSE. And through we didn't always understand it that way, thank God for the revelation given by His Spirit. There is a remedy that is wrought out by the process of Fire.

Continued HERE (http://greater-emmanuel.org/books/fire.html)

Consuming Fire by Ray Prinzing

Consuming Fire - that now burns, Devouring all the flesh that spurns The move of God which now returns To fuse us into one with God.

Energy force - His power divine, In perfect balance to align Each soul that thou dost now refine Into the harmony of God.

Restoring to our first estate, Thou didst become the narrow gate Leading into the way that's strait, For our returning into God.

Consuming Fire - this we know, That though we're caught within thy throe, Ere thou dost turn our loss to praise Acceptable unto our God.

A friend, and not a foe, thou art, Thus on the altar of our heart Remain with us, to now impart The glorious triumph of our God.

Until in Christ we, too, shall be Fulfillment of the mystery - A living, bright reality, Consuming Fire of our God! 

DEVOUR THE ADVERSARIES

This doesn't say things which many teach, it doesn't say the Fire will eat up all the ungodly. The word "adversary" used here, in the Greek is actually a word meaning CONTRARY, or opposition. If we resist His inworkings, there remains for us a fiery experience that will burn out all the contrariness-- all the rebellion of our self-natures. It didn't say we would be burned up, nor does it imply that we'll stay there for ever, but merely speaks of purging out all the opposition and contrariness.

Fire is Three-Fold

Yes, Fire is three-fold. There are three statements in the Word which define "Fire". First, we read, "Our GOD is a consuming Fire." (Hebrews 12:29). There is no need to look outside the Word of God for answers; the scriptures contain the needed definitions. Amen?

God is spirit-- that is His substance. God is love-- that is His nature. God is also light and Fire, they are His manifestations. We speak of fiery trials, HE IS IN EVERY ONE OF THEM. May we go even farther? He is the source of the Fire in our fiery trial, "HE" is the Fire thereof. You say that God's hand is resting upon you-- you say that He has filled with His Spirit and His anointing is upon your life, guiding you into all truth. Then don't be amazed at the fiery testing that is your also, for with every advancing step into new truth, there needs to be a purging out of error and past traditions which are contrary to pure truth.

The Fire to burn out the dross is the Holy Spirit God has placed within, Your GOD is your Fire. The reason you are conscious of the Fire is because there remains something in resistance to the move of God, but after all is brought into submission, it doesn't matter if the circumstances don't change, for by then you have been so changed you no longer consider them as a Fire in your life. The Lord places you into a situation which almost "burns" you up, and by your unyieldedness to God you are completely miserable. But when you at last begin to yield to His will, you find that all of the situation has become a haven, and learning to be content in whatever state you are in, you are no more adversely affected by the Fire, you delight in it.

God knows the desire of your heart, and He is answering the desire within to be like Jesus. He says, "Lo I am with you always." Where are you, Lord? I'd like a blessing. God says, "Here I am, I'm the Fire which is purging you." HAVE YOU RECOGNIZED HIM AS SUCH? We see Him in the burning bush, don't be afraid, the bush won't be consumed - you aren't gong to be burned up by the Fire, all that is consumed is the opposition to the will of God. His presence, so holy and pure, is Fire to all uncleanness.

There are other kinds of fierce Fire, wild fire, they only destroy and lay desolate, BUT GOD IS A FIRE THAT PURIFIES AND BRING INTO RIGHTEOUSNESS. God's mighty Fire does not leave you in a state of devastation, He is the same Presence that also BUILDS YOU UP IN FAITH AND LOVE, so that your cleansed life is to His glory. Once the carnal thought and imagination of our mind is purged out, then that same Fire-PRESENCE illumines to your heart to the glorious life-giving verities of God.

Is Not My Word Like As A Fire, Saith The Lord?

Second, we find that the Word, also, is Fire. "Is not My WORD like as a Fire? saith the Lord." (Jeremiah 23:29).

"I will make MY WORDS in thy mouth Fire, and this people wood, and it shall devour them." (Jeremiah 5:15).

The Lord is going to plead with ALL FLESH BY Fire, it will be by the Fire of HIS WORD, and all the false and insipid creeds of man will turn into ashes before the mighty burning truth. Truth alone will cause every mighty burning down into nothingness. The anointed Word, given in a spirit of love, is Fire. And such truth needs no defense, for as a Fire it defends itself; mishandle it, and you will surely be burned.

Flashing Fire

Thirdly, and all of these do blend together into one, "Who maketh His angels (messengers) spirits, His ministers a flaming Fire." (Psalm 104:4). Note: they are HIS ministers, not some man's. "Ye are bought with a price, be not ye the servants of men." (1 Corinthians 7:23). GOD WILL MAKE HIS MINISTERS A FLAMING FIRE. Also note this word "flaming", it is the same as used in Genesis 3:24, "a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life." And it means A FLASHING Fire, speaking of a sudden or startling burst of light.

Think of it-- when God begins to plead with all flesh BY Fire, and into all those dark, secret assemblies, suddenly appear His ministers as a flashing, flaming Fire, to expose and reveal every under-cover, sneaky, corrupt thing of man. What a consternation it is going to produce. In the midst of the gross darkness covering the earth, suddenly a flashing outburst; GOD ANSWERING BY Fire, until all will have to shut their mouths and be still, truth at last prevailing. Amen.

The Purpose? To Purify!

"And He shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and He shall PURIFY the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the Lord an offering into righteousness." (Malachi 3:3). "When He hath tried me, I shall come forth as gold." (Job 23:10).

The Fire is to try, to assay, prove and purify. The Fire is to try, to assay, prove and purify. "The fining pot for silver, and the furnace for gold: but the Lord trieth the hearts." (Proverbs 17:3).

HERE

(http://greater-emmanuel.org/books/fire.html)

 :thumbsup: Good thread!

Good Article FineLinen,

I appreciate the time and effort used in the study.

Though, I do not fully agree with everything you presented. To generalize that all fire mentioned in Scripture is God is a common mistake. It is the same as saying all spirits are God, because God is Spirit (1 John 4:1) . Scripture states, we must test all spirits to make sure they are of God, because false prophets have gone out, that means not all spirits are from God.

It is a bigger mistake to justify it with the root word of fire being THEOS, because that is the root word fallacy.

Example of Root Word Fallacy in Greek:
The word "labour" is: kopiaō, literally means, "exhausting bodily effort"
The the root word  is koptō, literally means, "to cut, strike, smite; to cut from, cut off; to beat one's breast for grief"

So when we read:
Ephesians 4:28 He who steals must steal no longer; but rather he must labour, performing with his own hands what is good, so that he will have something to share with one who has need.

So is Paul is actually saying...
He who steals must steal no longer; but rather he must cut off his own hands, which is good, so that he will have something to share with one who has need.

It is a penalty in some nations even today, to cut of the hands of a theif; does that simularity mean that Paul was teaching we should cut off the hands of theives? Or was he telling the theif, to stop stealing and start to work for a change, so he can share instead of take from others?

Therefore, not every Fire is God, and not every fire serves the same purpose. The purpose of fire is multifacetted that includes a purpose where of a complete and utter destruction of that which is subject to it.

Quote from: Craig on November 06, 2007, 07:43:08 PM

The purpose of fire is multifacetted that includes a purpose where of a complete and utter destruction of that which is subject to it.

:mshock:

QuoteBut the other day I was looking at the farmer parable, about the bad seed taking root in the field, and the field being burned. It immediately occurred to me that when farmers burn a field it is not so that the field is then made useless... it's so that the field then becomes incredibly fertile. A field that has been burned is not destroyed, it's renewed.

In my life, particularly in the past few years, I've gone through alot of changes. Much my old self - my old World-View and the Doctrines I clinged to, have been burned away. My old understandings of God and of who I am in Him had to be literally destroyed before I could begin to be taught new things of the Spirit.

My friend: What a wonderfully terrible thing it is to have one's life, world-view and doctrines burned away by the One who changes worms into butterflies! For the past little while I have been exercised regarding our Lord's words to His follower's "If you save your life you will destroy/apollumi it.....if you apollumi/destroy your life for My sake and the Gospels, you will save it." In destruction there is most assuredly Life, and we can rest with absolute confidence in the One who rends that He may heal.

Our Father's Essence Is Fire

Our usual thought of fire has been that it is a purely negative force, working only destruction and loss. But our God is a consuming Fire and, I would remind you, the very same God is Creator and is Life and is Love.

A recurring word throughout the Scriptures is, "Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God is ONE/ echad (compound unity) -Deut. 6:4-

What does it mean that God is One? It means infinitely more than that God is merely one person, for one in the numerology of Scripture means unity, united, unfragmented, undivided.

It means that every aspect of God's being and nature is moving in harmony; His justice is not warring against His mercy, His judgment is not pitted against His grace, His wrath is not striving with His love. Every part of the plan, purpose, will and nature of God is ONE unified, united, harmonious, in perfect accord and agreement, all moving toward the same end, the one complementing the other. 

The God of love and the God of judgment is the same God and both His love and His judgment are unified to accomplish the same purpose. This is why the Scriptures declare that God is both the "Saviour of all" and the "Judge of all". He is not the Saviour of some and the Judge of others. The very same God who is the Judge of all is also the Saviour of all. He judges all and He saves all! Can we not see by this that His judgment and His salvation are unified and harmonious, working together to effect the same end the restoration of all into God. His judgments are thus unto salvation.

There Is No Conflict: God is One

All the consecration of the Royal priesthood is connected with Fire, for all three sacrifices were accompanied with fire, and perfection is promised through fire. O my brother! My sister! I am afraid there is a great deal of comfortable Christianity that wants to be saved, converted, delivered, Spirit-filled, blessed, prospered, healed, and continually made happy; but it is not the Christianity of Christ.

Many Christians who love the blessings, the gifts and the thrills would like to receive the baptism in the Holy Spirit without the baptism of Fire. But what God has joined cannot be sundered. "He will baptize you with the Holy Ghost and Fire" -Matt. 3:11-; there is the promise, what will you do with it? 

There is only one preposition in the original, not two as in the English, to show the identity of the two baptisms, or rather that there is but ONE. The Holy Spirit and the Fire are not two items, they are one, for our God is a consuming Fire. Wherever the Spirit descends he brings Fire in His train.

There appeared unto them cloven tongues like as fire, and it sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost. -Acts 2:3-4- 

Fire Is A Symbol Of Purification & Transformation

It consumes the dross and tin of self, the wood, hay and stubble of ignorance and folly. "The Fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is." Everyone shall be salted with fire, baptized in Fire and in the Holy Spirit. Hence the Spirit came upon the disciples in a fiery form because they needed purification, purging, change and transformation. Those baptized with this baptism will know not only the glory and blessing and power of God, but the subduing, melting, abasing, refining, transforming, elevating effects of the Spirit's Fire.

Living Sacrifices

Therefore, to present our bodies and our lives a living sacrifice unto God, is offering ourselves as a burnt offering unto Him. Then the Fire from heaven can come down and consume that which has been presented unto Him and set it aflame and make us a fiery minister of God. -Hebr. 12:29- Our God is a consuming Fire! If we faithfully present ourselves unto Him upon the altar as a continual sacrifice, God will consume the whole life and make us an able minister to manifest His Life unto the world.

He makes His ministers a flame of Fire. -Hebrews. 1:7- 

HERE (http://www.sigler.org/eby/priest.html)

The way for all is through the fires, for fire is the great uniter and reconciler of all things; and things which without fire can never be united, in and through the fire are changed and become one.

Therefore every coming of Christ, even in grace, is a day of judgment. Therefore there are fires even for the elect both now, (1 Pet. 1:7, and 4: 12) and in the coming day; (1 Cor. 3:. 13, 15.) for "our God is a consuming fire;" (Heb. 12: 29.) and to dwell in Him we must have a life, which, because it is of the fire, for fire burns not fire, can stand unhurt in it.

Therefore our Lord "came to cast fire into the earth," and desired nothing more than "that it should be already kindled;" (S. Luke 12: 49) therefore He says,

QuoteEveryone shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt. -Mark 9: 49-

For this is the very "baptism of the Holy Ghost and fire," (Matt. 3: 11) that "spirit of judgment and burning," promised by the prophet, "with which the Lord shall purge away the filth of the daughters of Zion, and cleanse the blood of Jerusalem; after which He will create on every dwelling place of Mount Zion, and on all her assemblies, a cloud of smoke by day, and the brightness of flame of fire by night; and upon all, the glory shall be a defence; (Isa. 4: 4, 5) for "He is like a refiner's fire, and like a fuller's soap; and He shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver, and He shall purify the sons of Levi as gold and silver are purged, that they may offer to the Lord an offering of righteousness." (Mal. 3: 3). And as by the hidden fire of this present life, shut up in these bodies of corruption, we are able by the wondrous chemistry of nature through corruption to change the fruits and flesh of the earth into our blood, and from blood again into our flesh and bone and sinew; so by the fire of God can we be changed, and made partakers of Christ's flesh and blood. In and through Christ we have received this transmutation; (Rom. 5: 11) and through His Spirit, which is fire, is this same change accomplished in us.

NOTE:

It is surely a significant fact, that the two words used in Hebrew to express destruction, signify also, and are used to express, perfection; and that the word for a sacrifice by fire in Hebrew is the same as that for a bride or wife; e.g. Numbers 28: 6. By this double sense a veil covers the letter, veiling yet revealing God's purpose; for His purpose to the creature is through destruction to perfect it, and by fire to make it a bride unto the Lord. For a kindred reason some of the angels are called Seraphim, that is burning ones; for like the Lord, whose throne is flames of fire, (Dan. 7: 9,10.) they also are as fire; as it is written, "He makes His angels spirits, His messengers a flame of fire." (Heb. 1: 7, and Psalm 104:4) 

And as with the first-fruits, so with the harvest.

The world to be saved must some day know the same baptism. For "the Lord will come with fire," and "by fire and by His sword will He plead with all flesh, and the slain of the Lord shall be many." (Isa. 66: 15, 16.) The promised baptism or outpouring of the Spirit must be judgment, for the Spirit cannot be poured on man without consuming this flesh to quicken a better life;

NOTE:

Isa. 40: 7; and compare Rev. 8: 6, 7, which describes the effect produced by the breath or spirit of the Lord sounding through the trumpets of the heavenly sanctuary, and "His sword, which cometh out of His mouth," (Rev. 19: 13, 15) is that Word, which kills to make alive again. God is indeed "a man of war;" (Exod. 15: 3) but His warfare and wrath, unlike the "wrath of man, which worketh not the righteousness of God," ( James 1: 20) works both righteousness and life, and is set forth in that "warfare of the service of the tabernacle" (See Numbers 4: 23, 30, and 8: 24, 25; margin: and compare 1 Tim. 1: eighteen) by which that which was of the earth was made to ascend to God through fire a sweet sacrifice. 

HERE (http://www.auburn.edu/~allenkc/jukes2.html)

Good  Posts indeed for mine F.L :icon_flower:

Blessings
Taffy

Quote from: FineLinen on November 07, 2007, 04:09:51 PM

One thing I keep wondering is: How can a physical thing like fire cause damage, pain or suffering to a spiritual thing like a spirit or a soul?

:cloud9: Maybe because it's spiritual fire?

Quote from: FineLinen on November 07, 2007, 04:09:51 PM

One thing I keep wondering is: How can a physical thing like fire cause damage, pain or suffering to a spiritual thing like a spirit or a soul?

When we are talking to others who believe in Universal Reconciliation, using an objection by those who believe in condtional salvation to say the Lake of Fire is literal fire, in not really relevant since they do not believe that. There is many spiritual things, that cause pain and suffering to a soul.

Psalm 39:2-5
But when I was silent and still, not even saying anything good, my anguish increased.
My heart grew hot within me, and as I meditated, the fire burned; then I spoke with my tongue:
"Show me, O LORD, my life's end and the number of my days; let me know how fleeting is my life.
You have made my days a mere handbreadth; the span of my years is as nothing before you. Each man's life is but a breath. Selah

Was it a real fire that burned within his heart? Or was it a soulish, spiritual fire that burned in his heart? Was it a positive, refining fire? Or was it a painful, anguishing fire that came out of a hurt heart? There is painful fires, that come from within a man.

Isaiah 33:11
You conceive chaff, you give birth to straw; your breath is a fire that consumes you.

Did mankind literally give birth to wheat or flax straw? Is their breath a literal fire that consumes them? No, but that fire was painful, so much so, that they afraid of the continual burning of the chaff they concieve and straw they birth by their own breath!

James 3:6
The tongue also is a fire, a world of evil among the parts of the body. It corrupts the whole person, sets the whole course of his life on fire, and is itself set on fire by Gehenna.

Is the tongue a literal fire? No, yet it is a world of EVIL, it CORRUPTS, and sets everything around it on fire. It itself set on fire by Gehenna....Gehenna... a literal dump outside Jerusalem... OR, a spiritual fire? Not every fire is God. Not every fire is good.

We can seer our own conscience; does that mean we use an actual hot iron to cauterize it? No, is your conscience even physical? No, it is spiritual.

It is good to rebuttle those who believe in Eternal Torment, that the Lake of Fire is not literal but metaphorical, a spiritual judgment. It is not a good rebuttle to say that all fire is God, and that any fire man is subject to is refining.

FineLinen,

Thank you so much for these post. You are and have been a blessing to me. It was through your post that God has shown me the truth about the second death and the lake of fire.

Keep up the good work.

CHB

Quote from: CHB on November 07, 2007, 07:18:22 PM
FineLinen,

Thank you so much for these post. You are and have been a blessing to me. It was through your post that God has shown me the truth about the second death and the lake of fire.

Keep up the good work.

CHB

Hi there CHB, it is a glorious fact that we receive nothing except it be given to us from above. Before I became acquainted with the writings of the man of spirit and life, George MacDonald, a wonderfully terrible experience over 20 years ago, opened my eyes to a great mystery concerning the Lake of Fire. I wish I could convey the majesty of that moment, but alas, these things are for us to come to discover as He unfolds the mysteries of His majestic Presence in His good time.  It is so good seeing you again!  :boyheart:

The Consuming Fire -George MacDonald-

HERE (http://www.ccel.org/ccel/macdonald/unspoken1.iii.html)

Quote.....The outer darkness is but the most dreadful form of the consuming fire—the fire without light—the darkness visible, the black flame. God hath withdrawn himself, but not lost his hold. His face is turned away, but his hand is laid upon him still. His heart has ceased to beat into the man's heart, but he keeps him alive by his fire. And that fire will go searching and burning on in him, as in the highest saint who is not yet pure as he is pure.

But at length, O God, wilt thou not cast Death and Hell into the lake of Fire—even into thine own consuming self?

Death shall then die everlastingly,

And Hell itself will pass away,

And leave her dolorous mansions to the peering day.

Then indeed wilt thou be all in all. For then our poor brothers and sisters, every one—O God, we trust in thee, the Consuming Fire—shall have been burnt clean and brought home. For if their moans, myriads of ages away, would turn heaven for us into hell—shall a man be more merciful than God? Shall, of all his glories, his mercy alone not be infinite? Shall a brother love a brother more than The Father loves a son?—more than The Brother Christ loves his brother? Would he not die yet again to save one brother more?

As for us, now will we come to thee, our Consuming Fire. And thou wilt not burn us more than we can bear. But thou wilt burn us. And although thou seem to slay us, yet will we trust in thee even for that which thou hast not spoken, if by any means at length we may attain unto the blessedness of those who have not seen and yet have believed.

Brimstone=

Gophriyth= The breath of Jehovah

Brimstone=

qei'on/ theion =

Divine incense with the power to purify

Theion/ qei'on rooted in qei'o/Theios

Theios=

Used by the Greeks in reference to the only true God.

Theios rooted in qeov/ Theos

Theos=

The Supreme Deity from which we get Theology. 

The Lake Of Fire= The Lake of Theos

Dwellers In Fire -G. Campbell Morgan-

HERE (http://www.gct21.net/~odecker/DwellersFire.html)

The man who partakes of God's character can live in God's fire. You may well fear fire if you are a sinner. You may well fear the burnings if your hands are full of bribes and there is blood in your garments. You may well fear the fire if you are unholy, unrighteous, but not if you are right with God.

To use the magnificent and daring word of Peter, the man who himself partakes of "the Divine nature" can live in the fire of the Divine nature. Hell and heaven are one in atmosphere, and the atmosphere is a burning, blistering pain, or a shining, beauteous glory, according to what I am in myself.

Nothing can live in fire but that which is of the nature of fire. Nothing can live in fire but that which will take hold of the fire and be unweakened thereby. Who is it that can dwell in everlasting burnings and be unafraid? He that walketh righteously and speaketh uprightly. He can dwell in the fire.

   This is the great rock upon which faith fastens in the midst of toil. I may be speaking to some tonight who are greatly overburdened in their toil for God. Perhaps there are some worshipping with us who have come from the country, and down there in your village or town it seems as though God was being beaten, it looks as though the Assyrian must triumph over Judah. It is not so.

God is in this age burning, burning, burning, and only that can remain which partakes of the fire nature, which answers the call of righteousness and becomes righteous. The mightiest foe cannot abide, God will burn it to destruction.

Assyria is very proud. She spoils, though none has spoiled her. She deals treacherously, though none has dealt treacherously with her. For a time evil has a glamour and apparent glory about it. Take heart, and be at rest, oh, warrior of the King! The one thing that evil cannot do is lock its door against God. He wraps it about in the flame of His own being, and there is no evil house in London, no evil man or movement that is not already in this all-embracing fire. I thank God that my heart knows it.

Heb 12:18  For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest,

Heb 12:22  But ye are come unto mount Zion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

QuoteBrimstone=

Gophriyth= The breath of Jehovah

Brimstone=

qei'on/ theion =

Divine incense with the power to purify

Theion/ qei'on rooted in qei'o/Theios

Theios=

Used by the Greeks in reference to the only true God.

Theios rooted in qeov/ Theos

Theos=

The Supreme Deity from which we get Theology. 

The Lake Of Fire= The Lake of Theos

As demonstrated six or so posts up. It is not the Lake of Theos, it is the Lake of Fire.

To demonstrate the Root Word Error:

Example of Root Word Fallacy in Greek:
The word "labour" is: kopiaō, literally means, "exhausting bodily effort"
The the root word  is koptō, literally means, "to cut, strike, smite; to cut from, cut off; to beat one's breast for grief"

So when we read:
Ephesians 4:28 He who steals must steal no longer; but rather he must labour, performing with his own hands what is good, so that he will have something to share with one who has need.

So is Paul is actually saying...
He who steals must steal no longer; but rather he must cut off his own hands, which is good, so that he will have something to share with one who has need. Or was he telling the thief to stop stealing from others, and begin to work to share with others.

Basing our theology on the root words, would have us believe Paul was telling us to make sure theives cut off their hands!

It is not the Lake of THEOS, it is the Lake of Fire and it is fueled by man's dead works and set ablaze by the judgment of Gehenna.

Quote from: Craig on November 10, 2007, 06:14:37 PM
It is not the Lake of THEOS, it is the Lake of Fire and it is fueled by man's dead works and set ablaze by the judgment of Gehenna.

But "our God is a consuming fire" is also associated with God's judgment of man's dead works.

Deuteronomy 4:23 Take heed unto yourselves, lest ye forget the covenant of the LORD your God, which he made with you, and make you a graven image, or the likeness of any thing, which the LORD thy God hath forbidden thee. 24 For the LORD thy God is a consuming fire, even a jealous God.

I understand, this is not like I have not studied the subject. We can find all you want all the Scriptures that say God is fire, none say He is the Lake of Fire and not all fires mentioned in Scripture is God. So exceptions make the rule here. Our dead works burn us, the Lake of Fire is of our own doing.

Isaiah 50:11
But now, all you who light fires and provide yourselves with flaming torches, go, walk in the light of your fires and of the torches you have set ablaze. This is what you shall receive from my hand: You will lie down in torment.

Isaiah 33:11-14
You conceive chaff, you give birth to straw; your breath is a fire that consumes you.
The peoples will be burned as if to lime; like cut thornbushes they will be set ablaze."
You who are far away, hear what I have done; you who are near, acknowledge my power!
The sinners in Zion are terrified; trembling grips the godless: "Who of us can dwell with the consuming fire? Who of us can dwell with everlasting burning?"

James 3:5-6
Likewise the tongue is a small part of the body, but it makes great boasts. Consider what a great forest is set on fire by a small spark. The tongue also is a fire, a world of evil among the parts of the body. It corrupts the whole person, sets the whole course of his life on fire, and is itself set on fires of Gehenna.

Quote from: Craig on November 11, 2007, 05:28:14 AM
It doesn't bobf, you can find all you want all the Scriptures that say God is fire, none say He is the Lake of Fire...

I didn't say that scripture says God is the lake of fire.  Nor does it say God is not the lake of fire. The lake of fire is a judgment proceeding from God. That matches "our God is a consuming fire" in every respect I know of. It doesn't much matter to me whether God is the lake of fire or not.  What matters more to me is to understand the purpose and timing of the lake of fire, not whether it "is" God or not.

Quote...and not all fires mentioned in Scripture is God. So exceptions make the rule here

Isaiah 50:11
But now, all you who light fires and provide yourselves with flaming torches, go, walk in the light of your fires and of the torches you have set ablaze. This is what you shall receive from my hand: You will lie down in torment.

I'm sure not every fire in scripture is God.  But the ones where fire is a methphor for judgment seem match "our God is a consuming fire".

You added some since I responded....

Our dead works burn us, but God's law turns each idolatrous man over to servitude to his dead works, and the act of God doing so (judgment) God likens Himself to a consuming fire.

I re-editted my reply, before you replied but forgot press send. Ihave no problem with God being the consuming Fire. The problem is that is what people continue to say is the lake of Fire. Nowhere, do we find this to be true; in fact, we find the only 'body of water' on fire, is mankind himself because of his own dead works. God didn't even have to do it Himself, but He made that prossess possible.

Quote from: Craig on November 11, 2007, 06:08:48 AM
I re-editted my reply, before you replied but forgot press send. Ihave no problem with God being the consuming Fire. The problem is that is what people continue to say is the lake of Fire. Nowhere, do we find this to be true; in fact, we find the only 'body of water' on fire, is mankind himself because of his own dead works. God didn't even have to do it Himself, but He made that prossess possible.

But "our God is a consuming fire" refers to that very process/law of God of turning man over to His dead works to "burn" in them.

Slippery slope reasoning. God created the process but is not always or even nessesarily the Fire. I understand that reasoning but He was the one who created it. The consuming fire in Isaiah, is mankind's own burning by continual birth of straw and chaff. The fire that sets our life ablaze, is the tongue and it was set on fire by Gehenna. Gehenna, a judgment created by God as a result of mankind's; especially Israel's idolatry. Since these fires are created things, and since God cannot be created, the fire isn't God. There is no proof in Scripture, the Lake of Fire is God. If we sum up every process God makes, as what He is, then we are left with God also being a Murderer, a Liar, etc.

Quote from: Craig on November 11, 2007, 06:27:20 AM
Slippery slope reasoning. God created the process but is not always or even nessesarily the Fire. I understand that reasoning but He was the one who created it. The consuming fire in Isaiah, is mankind's own burning by continual birth of straw and chaff. The fire that sets our life ablaze, is the tongue and it was set on fire by Gehenna. Gehenna, a judgment created by God as a result of mankind's; especially Israel's idolatry. Since these fires are created things, and since God cannot be created, the fire isn't God. There is proof in Scripture, the Lake of Fire is God. If we sum up every process God makes, as what He is, then we are left with God also being a Murderer, a Liar, etc.

God is the one who likened Himself to a consuming fire when He judges man by turning him over to his idols.  So whenever I see man being turned over to his idols to be judged by God, I see God being a consuming fire.

[1] When man chooses to serve idols he has lit a fire.
[2] When God turns man over to that fire, God is a consuming fire.

I'm not saying those two fires are one and the same.  I'm saying that whenever God turns man over to the fire man has lit, God is acting as a consuming fire.

I posted these earlier,and i think they are good verses. 

Heb 12:18  For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest,

Heb 12:22  But ye are come unto mount Zion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

The consuming fire, imo; is upon the works of those stuck in self righteousness, hardened like pharoah.   Those relying on works of the law.  Denying Christ come in the flesh.  Those imo, hardened and destined to see their house come crashing down, as they spent their whole life full of pride, preferring sacrifice over mercy.  Those who dont see themselves as needing a physician.   

IMO, the fiery trials of the christian in I Peter are not the same as the consuming fire upon those stuck in self righteosness.  One refines one's faith, builds upon the rock.

one comes crashing down. 

Noah didn't swim in the waters, he wasnt' destroyed.  He didn't spend his whole life in self righteousnes.  He was saved from the waters.  His fiery trial was what led to endurance to keep building the ark, despite persecution.   The consuming fire was upon those persecuting (the "Ishmael's, those who have come to mount SINai, not Zion. 

Quote from: laren on November 11, 2007, 06:52:07 AM
I posted these earlier,and i think they are good verses. 

Heb 12:18  For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest,

Heb 12:22  But ye are come unto mount Zion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

The consuming fire, imo; is upon the works of those stuck in self righteousness, hardened like pharoah.   Those relying on works of the law.  Denying Christ come in the flesh.  Those imo, hardened and destined to see their house come crashing down, as they spent their whole life full of pride, preferring sacrifice over mercy.  Those who dont see themselves as needing a physician.   

IMO, the fiery trials of the christian in I Peter are not the same as the consuming fire upon those stuck in self righteosness.  One refines one's faith, builds upon the rock.

one comes crashing down. 

Noah didn't swim in the waters, he wasnt' destroyed.  He didn't spend his whole life in self righteousnes.  He was saved from the waters.  His fiery trial was what led to endurance to keep building the ark, despite persecution.   The consuming fire was upon those persecuting (the "Ishmael's, those who have come to mount SINai, not Zion. 

We are narrowing it down. Thanks for the references, I did catch them. I did not reply immidiately but was going to comment.

Especially this:

IMO, the fiery trials of the christian in I Peter are not the same as the consuming fire upon those stuck in self righteosness.  One refines one's faith, builds upon the rock.

Quote from: Craig on November 11, 2007, 07:35:49 AMEspecially this:

IMO, the fiery trials of the christian in I Peter are not the same as the consuming fire upon those stuck in self righteosness.  One refines one's faith, builds upon the rock.

I agree that they are not the same. 

Psalms 11:5  The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth. 6 Upon the wicked he shall rain snares, fire and brimstone, and an horrible tempest: this shall be the portion of their cup.

God does not rain fire of "snares" on the righteous, nor does God "trieth" the wicked to since they have no faith to try.

But the "consuming fire" is not limited to those who are self-righteous (believe they are righteous before God by their own works). For example, IMO the prodigal son was subject to God's consuming fire. But he was not self-righteous.  His elder brother was. The prodigal son worshipped the creation over the Creator and traded his inhertance like Esau.

Fire, Sodom, Gehenna and the Lake

All fire is not the same.

Obviously the fire of the bush that burned, but was not consumed (when Yahweh first met with Moses) was not the same as the fire with which they cooked their meals. God's fire is different. Strange fire was not to be used in lighting God's altars. And even in the natural, lightning is different from fire that burns wood -- even though lightning can heat up a tree to the point of combustion, and thus we have a forest fire which was actually ignited by an electrical charge completing a circuit and "arching."

So how are we to know the character or nature of fire when we read of it in Scripture? The answer is the "context," or what the text says about it. Consider the situation with Sodom and Gomorrah in Gen. 19:24.

Sodom

The NIV says "Then the LORD rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah -- from the LORD out of the heavens." We are acquainted with the results. The whole burnable area was burned up, and vs. 28 tells us that the smoke (from the burnable items) of the country went up as the smoke of a furnace. Now this is interesting, in that we see that apparently there is burning sulfur in the heavens (or, is it here simply lightning from the sky?).

Are the heavens, then a storehouse of fire and brimstone (sulfur)? It would appear so, from this account.

Next, what was burned up?

Flesh, and other combustibles (probably wood, hay and stubble). The men died prematurely by an act of God. It was a physical judgement just like other physical judgments from God upon men throughout the OT. Yet, we read in Jude 7 that this judgment was "an example (a specimen; something pointed out to the sight) of fire pertaining to the ages (or: age-lasting fire; fire having its source in and qualities from the ages)..." Now please note: the fire did not continue burning after all the fuel was consumed. It is not burning now. So, the fire was not "eternal," which is a subject to be discussed at another time. The fire did what God wanted it to do: destroy the men and the towns of that area.

Fire & Brimstone

To compare the terms "fire and brimstone" (or: burning sulfur) here with that in the book of Rev., let's read it from the LXX (the Greek version of the OT): "And the Lord rained on Sodom and Gomorrah qeion (theion) and fire from the Lord from out of the midst of heaven." I give here the Gr. word often translated "brimstone," or "sulfur," for you to note its spelling. This word is actually the neuter form of qeioV (theios) which means: Deity. With the definite article (the) before it, it means "the Divine nature." The same words are in the Greek text of Rev. 19:20 where we read of "the lake (or: pond) of the Fire (a figure of God) continuously burning within [the] Deity (theion)." So if its the same as that which killed those of Sodom and Gomorrah, what will it do to those who take the mark of the beast? I suggest that it will kill them. But what does this mean?

Second Death

Well, it's called "the second death" when "death and the Unseen (hades) are cast into the lake of fire," in Rev. 20:14. But, in effect, the figure here (and I suggest that this is figurative language -- but that is for the Holy Spirit to show you) is the consuming of both death and the Unseen (hades), for these are both temporal things that have to do with His creation. It would also consume wood, hay and stubble (man's worthless works -- I Cor.3:12-15), as well as all flesh -- just as it did in Gen. 19:24. Now note vs. 15 of I Cor. 3: "but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire."

Now lets consider Sodom, again.

God calls Sodom Jerusalem's sister in Ezk. 16:48. And in vs. 49 lists Sodom's iniquity: "pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness... neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy."

Now in vs. 51, we see that Jerusalem "has multiplied [her] abominations more than [Sodom and Samaria], and has justified [her] sisters in all [her] abominations which [she] has done." This is echoed by Jesus in Matt. 10:15, "Truly I say unto you, 'It will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment, than for that city." Then, speaking to Capernaum, He says in Mat. 11:23-24 that Capernaum will be brought down "as far as the Unseen (Hades)," and, again, "it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom, in the day of judgment, than for [Capernaum]." So, it would seem, that although Sodom and Gomorrah were consumed by God's fire and deity, it was not the end for them.

Back to Ezk. 16:53, "When I shall BRING AGAIN their captivity, the captivity of Sodom and her daughters... then will I bring again the captivity of thy [Jerusalem's] captives in the midst of them."
And vs. 55, "When thy sisters, Sodom and her daughters, shall return to their former estate... then you [Jerusalem] and your daughters will return to your former estate."

The Fire Of Deity

Now here, we've been talking about the same fire that judged Sodom and Gomorrah, and the fire and deity in Rev. 14:10 & 19:20. Same exact words in the Greek. Now here in Rev. 14:10-11, they are being examined (tested, as gold is tested for quality) by the touchstone "in the presence of The Little Lamb" into "the indefinite periods of time which comprise the ages." Note that the figure is "the little Lamb," not the King or the Judge, nor the Jailor. Present before them, like the serpent on the pole in the wilderness, is the Lamb, having been slain, but living. And within the flames of His divine nature, they will be purged of their dross (ref. to Mal. 3:2-5), and when they behold Him, they will see the Glory of the Risen and Reigning Lamb, and will be transformed into the same image (2 Cor. 3:18).

Gehenna

Now consider the contexts of Jesus saying that it is better to pluck out your own eye or cut off your own hand than to be cast into the fires of Gehenna. Very few will think that Jesus was speaking literally of digging out a physical eye, or of chopping off a literal hand. He was using hyperbole, a figure of speech, saying "stop looking at things that cause you to miss the mark -- don't let the lust of the eyes lead you astray; stop doing (putting your hand to) things that lead you into failure and error."

Figures

If you can accept that He spoke figuratively here, then why should His words of the consequences of continuing in error not also be figurative? And if this be true, then of what is "the Gehenna of fire" a figure? It was a picture of the end of a criminal's life -- he might well end up being crucified by the Romans, and then thrown in with the burning garbage and manure and the bodies of dead inedible animals within Jerusalem's city dump: Gehenna. So what did it represent? I suggest it represented the end of a wasted life -- one of constantly missing the target (sinning). He came to call them higher, to proclaim the kingdom of God and to show them the Way, the Truth and the Life. Anything else is loss and waste, and He was simply saying, "Don't waste your life." And further, He indicated that one can be maimed, or have scars of the former life, and yet be in the kingdom -- in Life. Yet He is in the habit of making the waste places a garden (Isa. 51:3) -- because of His grace and mercy.

His love and grace are with you.

Jonathan Mitchell

HERE (http://greater-emmanuel.org/jm/On_Fire_Sodom_Gehenna.html)

Jonathan Mitchell New Testament

HERE (http://www.greater-emmanuel.org/jmt/)

willieH: Greetins dudes  :icon_king: and dudelettes  :icon_queen:

Heres my small fortune :2c:  ...concerning GOD=FIRE!

Many here at TM know that I believe the Lake of FIRE is THIS LIFETIME...

Heb 12:29  States that our GOD, is a consuming [pur]  FIRE He is consuming ALL men in THIS LIFETIME, for at the end of the SIN and suffering, is DEATH... not MORE SUFFERING! :rolleye:

Rev 3:18 uses the SAME Greek word Pur (#4442 Strongs) for FIRE, ...as do ALL references to the Lake of [pur] FIRE does...

JESUS was tried IN THIS LIFE... and the  [pur] FIRE which tried Him was contained in this REALM of TIME... NOT in some LITERAL PIT of PHYSICAL FIRE!

1 Pet 1:7  Uses this same term... and notes that our faith is TRIED in this [pur] FIRE!  How much more plain can it be?  The FIRE which is GOD, is (at THIS TIME), trying us ALL...

MEN burn in LUST... and LUST emerges from, and is of the FLESH... and SIN is born of these two which (through and after much SUFFERING physically, mentally & spiritually) eventually leads to DEATH... (consumed)

PAUL stated: Acts 17:28  ...IN HIM, we live and move and have our being...  IN HIM, He is a FIRE... and we are IN HIM!

pEace...   :angel4:

In ...willieH :gamer:

The Lake of Fire & Brimstone

The Lake of Fire and Brimstone signifies a fire burning with brimstone; the word "brimstone" or sulfur defines the character of the fire.

The word theion translated as "brimstone" is exactly the same word theion which means "divine." Sulfur was sacred to the ancient Greeks; and was used to fumigate, to purify, and to cleanse and to consecrate to the deity; for this purpose they burned it in their incense. In Homer's Iliad (16:228) one is spoken of as purifying a goblet with fire and brimstone. The verb derived from theion is theioo, which means to hallow, to make divine, or to dedicate to a god. (See Liddell & Scott Greek- English Lexicon, 1897 Edition)

Both theion and theioo are rooted firmly in Theos.

To any Greek, or to any trained in the Greek language, a "lake of fire and brimstone" would mean a "lake of divine purification." The idea of judgment need not be excluded (see chapter 10 on the judgments of God). Divine purification and divine consecration are the plain meaning of the ancient Greek. In the ordinary explanation, this fundamental meaning of the word is entirely left out.

Rev. Charles H. Pridgeon M.A.

President & Founder of the Pittsburg Bible Institute

Amen to your posts brother finelinen, our God is indeed a consuming fire.

It is out of fire/God the law was given, and the fiery judgments of the law lead us to Christ where all that is old is consumed that we might be purified.

ONE God, ONE fire, ONE judgment/correction unto righteousness.

Quote from: pneuma on November 19, 2007, 08:22:32 PM
Amen to your posts brother finelinen, our God is indeed a consuming fire.

It is out of fire/God the law was given, and the fiery judgments of the law lead us to Christ where all that is old is consumed that we might be purified.

ONE God, ONE fire, ONE judgment/correction unto righteousness.

My brother Scott you have expressed it well. The word for "pure" in the Greek is katharos and means to be purified by fire. The River that flows in and out of the Lake of Theos is a river of fire and it purifies and cleanses everything it touches. And those who follow the Lamb in the withersover of His movings are clothed in garments that are pure and white. Yep, fire garments they are, garments that are purified by the Katharos River of the Glory One. And their consciences? Oh yes, purified by the fire of His glory!

   In the following link there is a lovely song that expresses some of the magnitude of what we are beholding. 

HERE (http://www.hopebeyondhell.net/song.php)

I see an army - I hear a song
rise in the nations, beautiful and strong.
A song of mercy that shatters pride,
a song of great love that purifies.

I see warriors with hands upraised,
holding no weapon, but their swords of praise.
Strongholds shatter. Kings bow down
before the Master and yield their crowns.

And every eye will see Him as Love wins through at last.
And every heart be drawn unto the Lamb.
Every voice will cry out what every heart will know
and before the throne we stand.

I see the earth now, its groanings cease.
Creation lifts praise to the Prince of Peace.
Wars have ended and weapons fall.
An invitation to one and all.

I see the Church now as a passionate Bride.
I see her Lover with His fiery eyes.
All His longing and her desire
join as one flame in heaven's fire.

And every eye will see Him as Love wins through at last.
And every heart be drawn unto the Lamb.
Every voice will cry out what every heart will know
and before the throne we stand.

I see a kingdom that never ends.
I see a Judge now who calls sinners 'Friends'.
Who gathers rebels and overwhelms
Them with His mercy so He can dwell
in hearts He's captured and rules in love.
He wraps around them a robe dipped in blood.
His tears are washing their fears away
and then He lifts them to see His face.

And every eye will see Him as Love wins through at last.
And every heart be drawn unto the Lamb.
Every voice will cry out what every heart will know
and before the throne we stand.

All will gaze in wonder at the reach of heaven's plan.
How could mercy touch the lowest man?
Drawn from every nation, every voice,and every tongue, amazed at what the Lord of Love has done.
amazed at what the Lord of Love has done.

I see a King now and I believe.
I hear His voice now and He's calling me.

 Why is it so hard to express the truth without resorting to common logical errors? Once again using the root-word fallacy. It is no wonder those who believe in conditional or limited atonement continue in their course, why would the truth need a fallacy to prove itself? Honestly, until someone is able to address the rebuttle's head on, it demonstrates a lack of understanding on their part, no matter how much is written about it.

Quote from: pneuma on November 19, 2007, 08:22:32 PM
Our God is indeed a consuming fire.

It is out of fire/God the law was given, and the fiery judgments of the law lead us to Christ where all that is old is consumed that we might be purified.

ONE God, ONE fire, ONE judgment/correction unto righteousness.

Yes indeed! The purpose of the judgements of the Lord are always based in change and transformation. The most powerful word in the New Covenant for destruction is olethros, used by the Saviour of the whole world and the Apostle St. Paul, which can be easily demonstrated to encompass life at the consummation. In fact: in the Old Covenant Hebrew there are over 20 distinct words for destruction, a number linking destruction with newness of life and being brought to perfection.

Our fellowship within the Father and His Son Jesus the Christ is centered in the fire of His Person. And surrounding the Ancient of Days are those who stand before Him in the blaze of His eyes and the fire licking at the wheels of His throne, and the fiery River that flows from His mouth. There is only one way into the Shekinah and that way is by way of the flaming swords of the Lord swirling in every direction

I had a young fellow inform me recently that....

QuoteAll comes from God is true ... All exists "because" of God. All ends up either with God or away from God. This is what is Biblical.

All originates in the A & W, and all consummates in the A & W/ Alpha & Omega. All comes from Him as Source, all is sustained through Him as Guide or Agent, and all consummates in Him as Goal/ Eiv. The all, or the ta pavnte, means "in the absolute sense of the whole of creation, the all things, the universe, and, everything in heaven and earth that is in need of uniting and redeeming." It is not in the limited sense of "nearly all", "pavnte" minus "ta."


Of him (ex autou),

Through him (di' autou),

Unto him (eiv auton )

By these three prepositions Paul ascribes the universe (ta panta) with all the phenomena concerning creation, redemption, providence to God as the.....

Ex= The Source

Di= The Agent

Eiv= The Goal

Robertson N.T. Word Pictures HERE (http://www.searchgodsword.org/com/rwp/view.cgi?book=ro&chapter=011&verse=036)

Romans 11:36= ta panta.

"In the absolute sense of the whole of creation, the all things, the universe, everything in heaven and earth that is in need of uniting and redeeming."

It is not in the limited sense of "nearly all", "pavnte" minus "ta."

QuoteI see an army - I hear a song
rise in the nations, beautiful and strong.
A song of mercy that shatters pride,
a song of great love that purifies.

I see warriors with hands upraised,
holding no weapon, but their swords of praise.
Strongholds shatter. Kings bow down
before the Master and yield their crowns.

And every eye will see Him as Love wins through at last.
And every heart be drawn unto the Lamb.
Every voice will cry out what every heart will know
and before the throne we stand.

I see the earth now, its groanings cease.
Creation lifts praise to the Prince of Peace.
Wars have ended and weapons fall.
An invitation to one and all.

I see the Church now as a passionate Bride.
I see her Lover with His fiery eyes.
All His longing and her desire
join as one flame in heaven's fire.

And every eye will see Him as Love wins through at last.
And every heart be drawn unto the Lamb.
Every voice will cry out what every heart will know
and before the throne we stand.

I see a kingdom that never ends.
I see a Judge now who calls sinners 'Friends'.
Who gathers rebels and overwhelms
Them with His mercy so He can dwell
in hearts He's captured and rules in love.
He wraps around them a robe dipped in blood.
His tears are washing their fears away
and then He lifts them to see His face.

And every eye will see Him as Love wins through at last.
And every heart be drawn unto the Lamb.
Every voice will cry out what every heart will know
and before the throne we stand.

All will gaze in wonder at the reach of heaven's plan.
How could mercy touch the lowest man?
Drawn from every nation, every voice,and every tongue, amazed at what the Lord of Love has done.
amazed at what the Lord of Love has done.

I see a King now and I believe.
I hear His voice now and He's calling me.

Beautiful

I had a young fellow inform me recently that....


Quote

QuoteAll comes from God is true ... All exists "because" of God. All ends up either with God or away from God. This is what is Biblical.

Did you ask this young fellow what scripture says that all comes from Him, all exists because of Him,All end up with Him or away from Him?

Well he started right, all comes, all exists, all ends up with God

Then he went and added to the scriptures, or away from God.

When is the messages of the churches going to change to

QuoteI see an army - I hear a song
rise in the nations, beautiful and strong.
A song of mercy that shatters pride,
a song of great love that purifies.

I see warriors with hands upraised,
holding no weapon, but their swords of praise.
Strongholds shatter. Kings bow down
before the Master and yield their crowns.

And every eye will see Him as Love wins through at last.
And every heart be drawn unto the Lamb.
Every voice will cry out what every heart will know
and before the throne we stand.

I see the earth now, its groanings cease.
Creation lifts praise to the Prince of Peace.
Wars have ended and weapons fall.
An invitation to one and all.

I see the Church now as a passionate Bride.
I see her Lover with His fiery eyes.
All His longing and her desire
join as one flame in heaven's fire.

And every eye will see Him as Love wins through at last.
And every heart be drawn unto the Lamb.
Every voice will cry out what every heart will know
and before the throne we stand.

I see a kingdom that never ends.
I see a Judge now who calls sinners 'Friends'.
Who gathers rebels and overwhelms
Them with His mercy so He can dwell
in hearts He's captured and rules in love.
He wraps around them a robe dipped in blood.
His tears are washing their fears away
and then He lifts them to see His face.

And every eye will see Him as Love wins through at last.
And every heart be drawn unto the Lamb.
Every voice will cry out what every heart will know
and before the throne we stand.

All will gaze in wonder at the reach of heaven's plan.
How could mercy touch the lowest man?
Drawn from every nation, every voice,and every tongue, amazed at what the Lord of Love has done.
amazed at what the Lord of Love has done.

I see a King now and I believe.
I hear His voice now and He's calling me.

I am so thankful I can hear this song and I pray, soon others will also.

Thanks for posting this Finelinen. It is going up on my two blogs as a Thangiving post.

Jack

Hey Gerry redid his site and put that song on there too! I didnt even know  :thumbsup:

:boyheart:

by the way folks that is my husband singing and he wrote that song for me before he even believed in ur when it was life in me but just perculating in him

kept

perfect Kept ........... makes it all the more special!   :HeartThrob:

Awesome!  What a blessing for you, Kept!

Yes it was special. He called me one day from work and said listen to the song I just wrote and I cried all the way thru it!  :HeartThrob:

Thru out our married life he has written songs often without even knowing what exactly Im going thru spiritually that spoke so clearly for me. We truly are one flesh and more than one flesh for in the Spirit we are intertwined and find our gifts are influenced by one anothers journey.

I have a whole diary of songs from him that show my walk and its the most precious gift besides my daughter that he has given me


kept

 :cloud9: That's awesome, Kept.....love to see the giftings in the body.... :thumbsup:

Quote from: Kept on November 21, 2007, 10:18:09 PM

By the way folks that is my husband singing and he wrote that song for me before he even believed in ur when it was life in me but just perculating in him

kept

Kept: this song of your husbands has the anointing of heaven upon it.

http://www.hopebeyondhell.net/song.php

Many years ago when we first began to walk in the high things of the heavenlies of our God we had many songs born within our groups, hundreds of them. And before we could grasp the magnitude of the restitution of all things we were singing about it. "All God's sons are coming home, home to the Father, home to the Son, all God's sons are coming home. All creation is coming home, home to the Father, home to the Son, all creation is coming home."

Well, we are entering into that season when we can sing a song by Isaac Watts. In a pre-Christmas declaration lets sing together.....

No more sin,  no more sorrow Sing it HERE (http://www.cyberhymnal.org/htm/j/o/joyworld.htm)

Quote from: FineLinen on November 19, 2007, 05:15:44 PM
The Lake of Fire & Brimstone

The Lake of Fire and Brimstone signifies a fire burning with brimstone; the word "brimstone" or sulfur defines the character of the fire.

The word theion translated as "brimstone" is exactly the same word theion which means "divine." Sulfur was sacred to the ancient Greeks; and was used to fumigate, to purify, and to cleanse and to consecrate to the deity; for this purpose they burned it in their incense. In Homer's Iliad (16:228) one is spoken of as purifying a goblet with fire and brimstone. The verb derived from theion is theioo, which means to hallow, to make divine, or to dedicate to a god. (See Liddell & Scott Greek- English Lexicon, 1897 Edition)

Both theion and theioo are rooted firmly in Theos.

To any Greek, or to any trained in the Greek language, a "lake of fire and brimstone" would mean a "lake of divine purification." The idea of judgment need not be excluded (see chapter 10 on the judgments of God). Divine purification and divine consecration are the plain meaning of the ancient Greek. In the ordinary explanation, this fundamental meaning of the word is entirely left out.

Rev. Charles H. Pridgeon M.A.

President & Founder of the Pittsburg Bible Institute

"But at length, O God, wilt thou not cast Death and Hell into the lake of Fire—even into thine own consuming self? Death shall then die everlastingly, And Hell itself will pass away, And leave her dolorous mansions to the peering day." -George MacDonald-

Jonathan Mitchell New Testament

HERE (http://greater-emmanuel.org/jmt/)

Please consider...

Rev. 9:17

"....Fire & Smoke and Deity"

Rev. 9:18

"....out of the Fire & the Smoke & the Deity"

Rev. 14:10

"And he will be examined (scrutinized with the touchstone to test his "metal") within Fire and Deity (Divine qualities) in the presence of (before; in the sight of) the set‑apart agents, and in the presence of (before) The Little Lamb."

Rev. 19:20

"....the two were cast (thrown) into the lake of the fire, the one continuously burning within [the] Deity.

Rev. 20:10

"...is cast (or: was thrown) into the lake of the Fire and Deity, "

Rev. 21:8

""But for the timid (cowardly) ones and for faithless ones (unbelieving ones) and for abominable ones (detestable ones) and for murderers, and for prostitutes and for sorcerers (enchanters; users of drugs) and for idolaters and for all the liars (the false ones): their portion [of the inheritance?] [is] within the lake continuously burning with Fire and Deity, which is the Second Death."

-Dr. Stephen Jones-

The lake of fire is portrayed in Scripture as the final place where the great Refiner sits to purify the hearts of men and prepare them to dwell in the divine presence in fellowship with God. This is the true purpose of the laver. At present only the true priests of God and of Christ (Rev. 20:6), that is, Christians in this present age, have access to that great laver. Even as the Levitical priests of the Old Testament purified themselves daily at the laver, so also are we baptized to signify that God has purified our hearts. In that final Age, the Lake of Fire shall be applied universally to those in need of purification. 

TY Finelinen, I will be sure and tell my husband how that song has blessed you as he really needs some encouragment in his life at this time! I appreciate all of your wonderful encouraging words.

:HeartThrob:

I very much would like to see ur musicians do a worship conference and do a recording so we could get all this great music on cd and available.

kept

Quote from: Kept on November 25, 2007, 04:14:21 PM
I very much would like to see ur musicians do a worship conference and do a recording so we could get all this great music on cd and available. Kept

:cloud9: Wow, wouldn't that be something to hear and you know the anointing would be on it..... :thumbsup:

Those Glorious FireWalkers

If we may, we'd like to share a brief little thought with you. We believe it will be worth the time it takes to read it, in that it may help to reveal the purpose of God behind some of those increasingly difficult spiritual trials and testings with which you've been confronted of late. And perhaps it may answer the question why, in spite of your most ardent prayers for relief, they have not just gone away. Obviously, God has had a reason for their intensification!

Recently, the Lord spoke a word to my heart concerning a brother for whom we had been praying. It was a word which we felt was to be taken positively, as a form of encouragement. Moreover, in the course of the dealing, He made me to know that this word was not just applicable to this brother alone, but to ALL who have been called to conform to the glorious image of Christ. The Spirit said quite simply to me,

QuoteI have determined to hold his feet to the fire, until they look like Mine.

Immediately following these words, John's description of the resurrected Christ in Rev. 11:5 came to mind...

QuoteAnd His feet were like unto fine brass, as if they had been burned in a furnace...

The thought is almost frightening, isn't it?

Have you ever heard anyone use the age-old idiom of "holding one's feet to the fire"? What they meant by this was that they were going to keep the pressure on that individual, they were going to give him no rest, they were going to bear down upon him with such force and intensity, that he would finally assume his moral obligations, line up with their desired expectations, conform to a certain standard of conduct or consciousness, etc. It was another way of saying that they were not going to release that person from the heat of intense scrutiny and high expectation, until they saw a change in him.

Now, does this not describe how our Lord is dealing with all of His children in this hour? Yes, it is true that Jesus loves us just the way we are. And, yes, His love for us is unconditional.

QuoteBut aren't you glad that He loves us so much that He will not leave us in that condition? His highest desire for each of us is that we should ultimately look like Him; and He will go to any length to make this a reality. Therefore, He holds us in the fire, even when we kick, and scream, and think we've had enough. He knows just what it will take to achieve the objective. And He works incessantly toward that goal, in spite of our objections. He is settled with the idea that once we share His vision, then we shall understand why all this was necessary for our making!

There are several things we might mention about the appearance of Christ's feet. Firstly, John's description of them was never meant to be taken literally. This should be apparent, since he referred to them as being "like unto...". This shows plainly that he was speaking in a metaphorical sense. He was creating a word-picture in the minds of his readers...and what an excellent picture he gives!

Secondly, the mention of His feet speaks figuratively of His walk (which incorporates the consciousness, character, conversation, and conduct expressed or displayed in the sight of men and angels). It's another way of commenting on the expression of His life in general; the demonstration and exhibition of that life, as He makes contact with the earth (the realm of humanity).

Brass

As many of you know, brass, in biblical symbolism, represents judgment. This is seen by the fact that both the altar and the laver, in the outer court of Moses' tabernacle, were made of brass. And this, of course, was where the disobedience and defilements of the people were dealt with. Sacrifices were offered upon the brazen altar for the sins of the people; while the brazen laver was for the cleansing of the priests. Jesus was the fulfillment of both of these (as well as every other piece of furniture in the tabernacle), in that He took the judgment, and bore the sins of the whole world upon Himself at Calvary. He vicariously absorbed the penalty for all our transgressions, so that we would not have to! Praise God! Because of His virgin birth, because He came into this world without the sinful legacy with which others were born (Psa. 51:5), He did what no other human being was qualified to do. But besides that, has it ever occurred to you that Jesus, in order to remain eligible for His all-important role for lo, those thirty-three long years, had to be judged Himself? This is a fact that is worthy of consideration.

QuoteNot only during those forty days and nights in the wilderness, but throughout His entire life, He had to be subjected to the extreme fires of testing, not as the Son of God, but as the Son of man, that He might be able to completely identify with mankind, and that He might perfectly fulfill His calling and election. He took the heat like a man, in order that we might become the sons of God!

Burned= Glowed

While I was reading over this passage from Rev. I :15, I noticed something conveyed in the original Greek which is almost overlooked when read only from the Authorized version. There is a condition described here which plainly reveals God's ultimate, eternal purpose for holding, not only Christ's feet to the fire, but ours, as well. The word, "burned", as is used in the King James translation, should more accurately be rendered, "glowed" (this is the way it appears in the Greek New Testament). Is there a difference? Most assuredly there is!

QuoteWe know that in order for something to burn, it's composition must be of a combustible nature. But for something to glow (perpetually), it must be of a more enduring substance.

Now, both burning and glowing are responses to the fire. And for a short duration, even that which is in the process of being burned may emanate a momentary glow (much the same way a "falling star" shines temporarily, until it burns out). But we know that in the fulness of time, the fire will at length reveal the true constitution of a thing. Beloved, it is an undeniable fact: the fire cannot be fooled! If the substance is ignitable, it will eventually be reduced to ashes. But if it is not, then it will simply be refined to the highest degree of purity. The fire makes manifest the basic make-up of the material, and openly declares its consistency for all the world to see.

Feet Like Fine Brass

Looking again unto Jesus, our Author and Finisher who gives us faith, we see that when our Lord trod upon this earth, He gave us the perfect example of what it's like to have "feet like unto fine brass". Why, He was the greatest "firewalker" that ever lived! For centuries, men in various parts of the world have mystified multitudes of spectators, by walking (or, at least, creating the illusion of walking) upon hot, glowing coals of fire. In fact, in some cultures, a walk among the fiery embers was even required of those who had hopes of being initiated into the ranks of their priesthood. It was looked upon as an act of moral purification.

QuoteBut without fear of contradiction, we can boldly declare unto you that no one ever did it quite like Jesus! You see, He encountered all the trials and temptations common to mankind. He was faced with the same kind of pressures wherewith each of us are familiar. There was no area of His life which escaped the all-searching flame; in no thing was He spared.

In fact, we are persuaded that the pressures He encountered were more intense than what any of us might even imagine at this time! Many years ago, the question was posed by wise old Solomon, "Can one go upon hot coals, and his feet not be burned?" (Prov. 6:28). The answer, up until that time, was a resounding NO! Every man (or woman) who had ever passed through the fiery path of fleshly lusts, trials, or temptations had always come out with "charred feet", so to speak, in one form or another. Every one of them had "flammable" elements in their "soles"; that is, elements which responded poorly to the heat! Oh, they might have been victorious in one situation, only to turn around, and find themselves "flame-broiled" in another form of testing over which they had no power. We know this to be true, because according to the divine Record, "ALL have sinned (missed the mark), and come short of the glory of God." But when Jesus stepped forth on the human scene, He bore an entirely different testimony. We read that He "was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin" (Heb. 4:15)! It mattered not whether He was being tempted with one of the common sensual allurements which appeal to the natural appetites in man, or whether He was being led along the fiery pathway which passed by the house of that "great harlot", religious Babylon, whose sweet, seductive influences had slain many strong men (Prov. 7:26, 27). Regardless of whether He was walking through one of those challenging natural circumstances, which is generally of a frustrating nature (which had the potential of causing Him to "lose His cool", so to speak), or whether He was being forced to pass through the flaming words and false accusations of His chief critics (whose tongues set on fire the course of nature, being set on fire of hell; James 3:6). ..He always did what was right. And He calmly kept His composure.

QuoteNo matter how hot "the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire" made them (Isa. 54:16), and no matter how intense the heat became under His feet, there was absolutely nothing in Him that would ignite! Much to the devil's dismay, Jesus simply would not burn! The flame would not kindle upon Him! Why, He wouldn't even blister! In fact, the hotter the adversary made the trial, the more fervently Christ's feet "glowed"! He radiated with such an intense purity, such indescribable peace, such absolute discipline and self-control, the multitudes were absolutely astonished by Him.

They could not help but admire this Man's walk! It was totally above reproach! Ah, beloved, we believe that it was because of this very thing that He had such influence with the people. They understood that what He taught them, He had first walked out Himself. He not only instructed them in the overcoming life; He demonstrated what it was like to have power over the fire! That made all the difference in the world!

The Lord Of The Fire

The question might be asked: how was it that Christ was able to walk through the midst of such tremendous fires, and remain unsinged? How did He keep from being completely overwhelmed by them? We believe that one of the main reasons was that He stayed focused in the heavenlies. He kept His eye on the Lord of the fire, instead of looking at the fire itself. You see, while His feet were walking out the purposes of God in the earth, His head was in the heavens (John 3:31). He was not the least bit overwhelmed by the fire, because He understood it's origin. He knew from whence it came! We read that "His eyes were like a flame of fire", which, among other things, could be taken to mean that He had a vision of the fire; He knew and understood it's purpose in His life. Unlike Peter, who, while walking on the water took his eyes off the Lord, and filled them with the wind and waves (thus allowing those agitated waters to engulf him), Christ always stayed above the fire, by beholding the presence of the Father in the midst of it. This was reflected in His eyes! (Furthermore, He understood that satan only operated God's "bellows"; which is to say, the power which he had to "heat up" the coals in the fire was first given to him by God; Rom. 13:1, Job 1:6-12)! This enabled our Lord to walk in full assurance of faith through the most challenging, tempting, and life threatening circumstances ever encountered by man, without flinching, and without being distracted from His goal. He was kept in perfect peace, because His mind was stayed on Him (Isa. 26:3)!

Eyes Like His: Feet Like His

Beloved, what was true of Him can also be true of us. We can have eyes like His; which will, in turn, enable us to have feet like His. This walk is available to us today! We read in I Corinthians 10:13 that "there hath no temptation (trial, testing) taken you, but such as is common to man; but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted (tried, tested) above that ye are able: but will with the temptation also make a way of escape, that ye may be able to bear it".

QuoteThe key-operative line in this passage is that God is faithful. He is in control. He will not allow us to be tested beyond our ability to endure (and, mind you, none of us are going through anything that has not been faced to some degree or another by someone before us). Our God can be trusted in this! He knows our limitations better than we; and when we have reached those limits, He makes a way of escape, that we might bear some more!

It should be pointed out that His way is not an evacuation from the fire, or around the fire; it is a way through it! And through it we shall go, until finally we emerge on the other side of our great tribulation, bearing His victorious testimony of peace which passeth understanding!

This is the destiny of all those who yield themselves unreservedly to the Lord. Even now, the feet of God's king-priestly company of "firewalkers" are being conditioned in the flames of fiery trials and daily tribulation. And even as we speak, a bed of coals heated "seven times hotter" than in any previous generation is being prepared! The stage is being set; the world will be watching. What a breathtaking sight this will be!

QuoteWe need not fear, however, for once He has consumed everything in us that can be burned, and refined the metal of our inner nature to its highest degree of purity, then, regardless of the temperature, we will simply "glow" all the more with the glory of God.

Isn't this our real purpose in life, anyway? You see, at such a time, we trust that God will have already taken "the burn" out of the fire for us. And by then, there will be nothing there to threaten us, to make us afraid! (The fire is an enemy to us only so long as there are things in us that respond negatively to it, or as long as there are things that we are afraid of losing to it. But when we truly get victory over it, it will not matter! The sufferings of this present time, or any time in the future, for that matter, are certainly not worthy to be compared to the glory which shall be revealed in us)! As did our Lord Jesus, we, too, will "glorify the Lord in the fires" by walking in a way that magnifies and radiates His holy name (nature) to the rest of creation. As a prophetic confirmation to these thoughts, Isa. 43:1-2 says, "Fear not; for I have redeemed thee, I have called thee by thy name; THOU ART MINE... when thou walkest through the fire, thou shalt not be burned; neither shall the flame kindle upon thee". Praise God for the hope of His calling! As we become victorious over every Adamic tendency in us now, we will then be able to stand calmly and triumphantly with the Lamb on a "sea of glass" (which speaks of a transparent walk, having nothing to hide or be embarrassed of) "mingled with fire" (Rev. 15)! Then it shall be said by the inhabitants of the world, "How beautiful are the feet of Him... and how beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things" (Isa. 52:7; Rom. 10:15)! Our feet will glow like His! Hallelujah!

-Terry Crisp-

Is it not strange the long seasons that can elapse on the back-side of the desert? Year by year falls into the great abyss, and at the juncture where we can no longer speak, and the great struggle to do the will of God vanishes into weakness and death, the Bush appears pulsating with Deity. It is there at the asamuth of death and weakness the Living One speaks.

"Take off your shoes from off your feet!"

Holy ground! The place where dust and Divinity meet! It is there in absolute weakness and inability, the Lord manifests Himself as the God that raises the dead. The road into the Tree of Life is by way of the flaming swords swirling in every direction. Those who reach for the Tree will suffer the loss of the hand, the fingers, the grasp of all they are! And as the process of the swirling swords of Fire rage upon these ones, great loss is inflicted, for nothing, no one, comes to the other side the same as it enters...Nothing! nothing! nothing!

The great stages of the Living One's glory must be by degrees of doxa. We are changed from one degree of glory to another and another and another! It requires a thought process in the mind of the caterpillar that ultimately leads to the building of a cocoon from which caterpillars become flying objects of grandeur. Yes, caterpillars become butterflies, and dust moves from one road of life into the Divine One, described as "the Living", the "I AM", not the I was, the "I AM."

It is this Heavenly Road that has grasped us, the Heavenly One, the Source leading to the Road, the sustaining Guide of the Road, and the Goal of the Road. All things lead to Him, through Him and for Him! And by Him all things consist. It has taken me over 60 years to go a journey that could have been accomplished in 11 days, but dust and Divinity must meet, the goal is not all the story, the path is of equal value in the I AM! Each of us are on different stages of our Father's drawing hand, some so wrapped up in themselves they cannot see the bush that is aflame and is not devoured. It is just a common bush for many, but

"Earth's crammed with heaven, and every common bush afire with God; and only he who sees takes off his shoes."

Thank you FineLinen, I really needed this message today.  :thumbsup:  :bgdance:   :girlheart: :happy3:

CHB

 :cloud9: Amen....

Quote from: CHB on May 04, 2009, 06:04:37 PM

Thank you FineLinen, I really needed this message today.  :thumbsup:  :bgdance:   :girlheart: :happy3:

CHB

My dear Charlotte: you and your son continue to be in my prayers to Father.

As you know the Fire of God is an aspect of His purposes that were quickened to F.L. over 20 years ago when I was working on a nasty job behind a concrete saw....dust, dirt, water spraying over my shoes and pants, in our work for C.N.N. (among others), building satellite earth stations around this terrestial ball.

My friend, and former boss, had a sweet mother who possessed not one nasty bone in her body. But she believed our Father's word indicates one either turns to Christ in this lifetime or, well, she is a wonderful Southern Baptist. My friend was hammering on poor Mrs. Hall, and I sat simply listening to the conversation over to the side of the room.

It was the next day, as I worked thinking of what had been said, the Presence began to sweep over me, around me: the Presence I knew I could not dismiss. And in that awfully fearful day, my heart was overwhelmed with six words I had never heard before, never considered. Panic gripped my heart and spirit....David you are going mad! I vowed in that moment that I would never ever disclose what the Living One had broken upon me that day, but alas, the years went by, and I became aware of George MacDonald who had written what the Lord showed me 150 years later. If you can round up the Unspoken Sermons, and the Consuming Fire, and reach down to the last 3 paragraphs you can behold why I feel like I do. God bless you and yours my dear!

The way for all is through the fires, for fire is the great uniter and reconciler of all things; and things which without fire can never be united, in and through the fire are changed and become one.

Therefore every coming of Christ, even in grace, is a day of judgment. Therefore there are fires even for the elect both now (1 Pet. 1:7; 4:12), and in the coming day (1 Cor. 3:13-15); for "our God is a consuming fire" (Heb. 12:29); and to dwell in Him we must have a life, which, because it is of the fire, for fire burns not fire, can stand unhurt in it.

Therefore our Lord "came to cast fire into the earth," and desired nothing more than "that it should be already kindled" (Luke 12:49); therefore He says,

QuoteEvery one shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt (Mark 9:49).

For this is the very "baptism of the Holy Ghost and fire" (Matt. 3:11), that "spirit of judgment and of burning," promised by the prophet, "with which the Lord shall purge away the filth of the daughters of Zion, and cleanse the blood of Jerusalem; after which He will create on every dwelling place of Mount Zion, and on all her assemblies, a cloud of smoke by day, and the brightness of a flame of fire by night; and upon all, the glory shall be a defence" (Isa. 4:4-5); for "He is like a refiner's fire, and like to fuller's soap; and He shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver, and He shall purify the sons of Levi as gold and silver are purged, that they may offer to the Lord an offering of righteousness" (Mal. 3:3).

Note:

Luther's well-known words are to the purpose here, for though originally written by him as a test of prophets, they are no less true in their measure of all who are taught of God:—"Quaerendum num experti sunt spirituales illas angustias, et nativitates divinas, mortesque, infernosque. Si audieris blanda, tranquilla, devota, (ut vocant,) et religiosa, etiamsi in tertium coelum sese raptos dicant, non approbabis. Quia signum Filii Hominis deest, qui est Basanos, probator unicus Christianorum, et certus spirituum discretor. Vis scire locum, tempus, modum, colloquiorum divinorum. Audi:—'Sicut leo contrivit ossa mea,' et 'Projectus sum a facie oculorum tuorum:' 'Repleta est malis anima mea, et vita mea inferno appropinquavit.' Tenta ergo, et ne Jesum quidem audias gloriosum, ni videris prius crucifixum."—Epist. lib. ii. p. 42.)

And as by the hidden fire of this present life, shut up in these bodies of corruption, we are able by the wondrous chemistry of nature through corruption to change the fruits and flesh of the earth into our blood, and from blood again into our flesh and bone and sinew; so by the fire of God can we be changed, and made partakers of Christ's flesh and blood. In and through Christ we have received this transmutation (Rom. 5:11; τὴν καταλλαγήν); and through His Spirit, which is fire, is this same change accomplished in us.

Note:

QuoteIt is surely a significant fact, that the two words, תמם and כלה, used in Hebrew to express destruction, signify also, and are used to express, perfection; and that the word for a sacrifice by fire, אשה, is the same as that for a bride or wife; e.g. Numb. 28:6.

By this double sense a veil covers the letter, veiling yet revealing God's purpose; for His purpose to the creature is through destruction to perfect it, and by fire to make it a bride unto the Lord. For a kindred reason some of the angels are called Seraphim, that is burning ones; for like the Lord, whose throne is flames of fire, (Dan. 7:9-10,) they also are as fire; as it is written, "He maketh His angels spirits, His messengers a flame of fire." Heb. 1:7, and Psalm 104:4.)

And as with the first-fruits, so with the harvest.

The world to be saved must some day know the same baptism. For "the Lord will come with fire," and "by fire and by His sword will He plead with all flesh, and the slain of the Lord shall be many" (Isa. 66:15-16). The promised baptism or outpouring of the Spirit must be judgment, for the Spirit cannot be poured on man without consuming his flesh to quicken a better life; (Note: Isa. 40:7; and compare Rev. 8:6-7, which describes the effect produced by the breath or spirit of the Lord sounding through the trumpets of the heavenly sanctuary.) and "His sword, which cometh out of His mouth" (Rev. 19:13-15), is that Word, which kills to make alive again. God is indeed "a man of war" (Exod. 15:3); but His warfare and wrath, unlike the "wrath of man, which worketh not the righteousness of God" (James 1:20), works both righteousness and life, and is set forth in that "warfare of the service of the tabernacle" (See Numb. 4:23, 30; 8:24-25; margin: and compare 1 Tim. 1:18), by which that which was of the earth was made to ascend to God through fire a sweet sacrifice.

Andrew Jukes {The 2nd Death & The Restitution Of All Things}

HERE (http://www.alampthatburns.net/jukes/restitution/restitutionofall-contents.htm)

The Writings Of Andrew Jukes

HERE (http://www.alampthatburns.net/jukes/jukes.htm)

in light of recent discussions, bumped this thread for anyone to at least take a look at it for review...

Much thanks to Michael Phillips

HERE (http://fatheroftheinklings.com/behind-the-wardrobe/topics-on-gods-justice-the-atonement-and-the-potentiality-of-universal-reconciliation/1549-2/)

Fire

It is commonly assumed that fire in Scripture is exclusively a symbol of destruction and judgment. But as George MacDonald makes repeatedly clear, fire is also used throughout Scripture as an image of purification. To understand the full imagery, we have to look at the whole picture. Because of sin's entry into the world, man's reconciliation with God necessarily involves a two-step process—a negative and a positive, a tearing down and a building up. Sin must be destroyed in the world and in us, so that we and the universe can be restored and become what God created us to be. As sinners, we must repent...so that we can grow into Christlikeness.

Restoration is always a process containing these two aspects. Throughout Scripture fire provides an image of both. God's judgment will indeed fall on sin...so that his creation may be purified, healed, and restored. The fire of judgment burns away dross, so that the fire of purification can produce gold.

The ultimate purpose of God's fire, therefore, is purposeful, chastening, and redemptive, not vengeful or punitive. Its aim is growth, redemption, and cleansing. Whatever punishment is involved points toward that ultimate redemption.

God's true perspective of the purpose of fire is found in the Old Testament prophets, rising to a climax in Malachi. There we see clearly that fire is always primarily a means of purification. We further note that it is not a purification reserved for sinners alone, but for God's people and priests.

The Old Testament prophets understood this purpose of fire:

"I will thoroughly purge away your dross and remove all your impurities. I have refined you...I have tested you in the furnace of affliction. (Isaiah 1:25; 48:10)

"This third I will bring into the fire; I will refine them like silver and test them like gold." (Zechariah 13:9)

"For he is like a refiner's fire and like fuller's soap; he will sit as a refiner and purifier of silver, and he will purify the sons of Levi and refine them like gold and silver, till they present right offerings to the Lord...For behold, the day comes, burning like an oven...the day that comes shall burn ...But for you who fear my name the sun of righteousness shall rise, with healing in its wings." (Malachi 3:2-3; 4:1-2)

Misunderstanding this principle, as did the Children of Israel at the foot of Sinai, much Christian theology has mistakenly interpreted the fire of Scripture as exclusively a vehicle of judgment and punishment. But this is wrong. God's purpose is not to punish sin, but to eradicate sin from his creation. In "Justice" MacDonald writes, "Primarily, God is not primarily bound to punish sin; he is bound to destroy sin."

Judgment and punishment may be required in the process, but they are not in themselves the objective nor the final result. And note this imperative point: The fire does not burn forever. Malachi's purifying fire burns until the sons of Levi present right offerings to the Lord...after which the sun of righteousness shall rise with healing in its wings. In Scripture there is always something that follows the fire of judgment—healing.

The minor prophets are key in understanding the prophetic restoration that lies ahead. To grasp their message one must read their words on several levels, and perceive temporal, future, and eternal frames of reference.

A word like "forever," for example, might be used, and then be followed by a description of what will happen after that forever, as in a statement along the lines of, "I will punish my people Israel forever...until they repent of their sin and I restore them in the land I gave their fathers." This is the way the prophets wrote. Duration of time may mean something different than is obvious at first glance. Healing always follows judgment. "Forever" doesn't always mean literally forever.

In Malachi 3, after asking "who can endure the day of the Lord's coming," the prophet goes on, with that oft-used word that signals the shift from judgment to restoration, "Then the Lord will have men who will bring offerings in righteousness."

In Zephaniah 3, we see first judgment: "I have decided to assemble the nations...to pour out my wrath upon them—all my fierce anger. The whole world will be consumed by the fire of my jealous anger." But everything is not consumed, for the judgment is followed by healing: "Then I will purify the lips of the peoples that all of them may call on the name of the Lord." It is one more example of this "forever...until" progression.

Examples of this progression in the prophets are literally legion. Once you see it, the reconciliatory purposes of God begin jumping off the page everywhere you look. The ninth and final chapter of Amos is wonderfully illustrative. For ten verses Amos prophesies the destruction of Israel. Then he shifts to healing and restoration: "In that day I will restore...I will repair...and build...I will bring back my exiled people Israel...never again to be uprooted from the land I have given them."

Those who interpret such passages in the context of physical, temporal Israel, and the "land" as physical, temporal Palestine, have not yet begun to recognize the true high theme of prophecy in Scripture. God is here speaking through the prophets of the restoration not of temporal Israel alone, but of his entire creation! Once the fire has done its work, the season for healing has come.

From the failure to recognize this imperative progression, along with a subtle but damaging mistranslation of Matthew 25:46, a completely erroneous doctrine of hell has emerged that has miscolored the entire Christian message in the eyes of the world. It has caused most of Christ's Church to misunderstand the true purposes of God in the universe and in the heart of mankind.

How astonishing it is that Christians do not read the New Testament prophecies with the perspective of this scriptural progression, nor ask what wonderful healing and reconciliation will take place in Malachi's purifying furnace between Revelation 20:15 and 22:3. What comes after the lake of fire and the second death—God's defeat, or God's triumph in the hearts of the billions of souls of his creation?

God's eternal purpose is to bring his children home. Nothing will satisfy and fulfill his love but to see them pure and perfect as he is pure and perfect. So now it is time to ask how Malachi's furnace of purification actually works. What does the fire do to accomplish its cleansing? The fire of God's purification does not burn us, our essential being created in his image. That's why we need God's purifying fire. It burns away the parasites of sin that cling so close that they suffocate our true selves.

The purpose of fire in the economy of God is to purify the heart of saint and sinner alike. Recognizing the nature of the Lord's sacrifice (Not my will, but yours be done), we appropriate God's cleansing by making the same sacrifice. By obedience we make ourselves the executioner of our own sin. Sin will be eradicated from the universe by being eradicated from each individual human heart. The fire is not the enemy, but is the agent of God's work. We lay our self on God's altar, and then beseech him with all the desperate hunger of a will that desires to be pure, "Come, fire of God, and burn me clean!"

The fire in MacDonald's economy, however, is not merely for the burning out of sin. It is also the fire of light, the fire of God's love, the fire of comfort, the light of purity—what he calls "the fire-core of the universe." The child of God who desires to be pure and clean will thus welcome God's fire.

MacDonald writes: "The fire of God, which is his essential being, his love, his creative power, is a fire unlike its earthly symbol in this, that it is only at a distance it burns—that the farther from him, it burns the worse, and that when we...approach him, the burning begins to change to comfort." MacDonald amplifies his thoughts on the purifying nature of God's fire throughout his writings, most notably in the sermons entitled, "The Consuming Fire" and "The Fear of God."

Meet Michael Phillips

HERE (http://fatheroftheinklings.com/michael-phillips/)