Lake of fire?

[meefsgirl]

And the soul contains the flesh nature? (I'm having an online discussion with someone who believes in annihilation)

[fullarmor2]

     You have to remember that the lake of fire is of God, or created by God for whatever reason. And God is love.    So the lake of fire is the fire of love.  What do you think the fire of love is for?  :happy3:

[sparrow]

     You have to remember that the lake of fire is of God, or created by God for whatever reason. And God is love.    So the lake of fire is the fire of love.  What do you think the fire of love is for?  :happy3:

:goodpost:

[meefsgirl]

     You have to remember that the lake of fire is of God, or created by God for whatever reason. And God is love.    So the lake of fire is the fire of love.  What do you think the fire of love is for?  :happy3:

That's what I'm asking????

I know that it is God, and that He is love and that the LOF is for purification and cleansing, but....

What is it that is destroyed in the LOF?

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Everything that is not of His nature IN us. We were made, spirit, soul, and body. You know where 2 went, now you know what happens to the other one. Blessings....

[meefsgirl]

:cloud9: Everything that is not of His nature IN us. We were made, spirit, soul, and body. You know where 2 went, now you know what happens to the other one. Blessings....

Are we raised, and I mean this mostly of unbelievers, with the flesh nature still intact, with all it's sin and demons, etc?

[Beloved Servant]

The flesh has been nailed to the Cross; FOR ALL — FOREVER

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: No.....

[Zeek]

     You have to remember that the lake of fire is of God, or created by God for whatever reason. And God is love.    So the lake of fire is the fire of love.  What do you think the fire of love is for?  :happy3:

That's what I'm asking????

I know that it is God, and that He is love and that the LOF is for purification and cleansing, but....

What is it that is destroyed in the LOF?

pride,

the self defined person,

fear

[meefsgirl]

The flesh has been nailed to the Cross; FOR ALL — FOREVER

Then what is cleansed away from mankind in the Lake of Fire?

Why can't I get a direct answer to a direct question?

I think I'll start another thread....

[Doug]

The flesh has been nailed to the Cross; FOR ALL — FOREVER

Then what is cleansed away from mankind in the Lake of Fire?

Why can't I get a direct answer to a direct question?

I think I'll start another thread....

In the judgment, delusions, i.e., the "covering cast over all people" in the scripture below, that have veiled the minds of people to the truth, will be destroyed.

Isa. 25:7-8
And he will destroy in this mountain the face of the covering cast over all people, and the vail that is spread over all nations.
He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the LORD hath spoken it.

Doug

[Cardinal]

The flesh has been nailed to the Cross; FOR ALL — FOREVER

Then what is cleansed away from mankind in the Lake of Fire?

Why can't I get a direct answer to a direct question?

I think I'll start another thread....

:cloud9: I did give you a direct answer. Everything that is not like God. So; that means the lusts of the flesh nature of man (not talking skin here) such as greed, lust, avarice, malice, envy, jealousy, pride, hate, ect. These things are what is being burned up in the Lake of Fire.

Compare with the 3 Hebrew children who were cast into the fiery furnace. Only their bonds were consumed with fire, but they themselves were unharmed. Blessings.....

[eaglesway]

God is love. 1 Jn 4:8,16
God is light and in Him there is no darkness at all. 1 Jn 1:5
Our God is a consuming fire.Deut 4:24, Hebrews 12:29
"Every man's work will be tested by fire, for the "Day" shall reveal it.(1 Cor 3:15)
For He must reign until every adversary is made a footstool for His feet, the last enemy to be done away with is death(1 Cor 15:25,26).

We see death and sheol cast into the lake of fire.
They are adversaries to the "glorious liberty" into which all creation is redeemed(for freedom Christ has set you free).
Every chain, every veil, every "adversary" to the love of God is consumed in the fire because God is light and in Him no darkness is.
For all to be gathered together into one in Christ(Ephesians 1:1-11), for all to be reconciled unto the Father(Col 1:16-21), for God to be "ALL IN ALL"(1 Cor. 15:28) all darkness, rebellion, ignorance, deception, any separation from the divine nature must be consumed in the fire.

Thats why any branch that does not "abide in the vine", "whithers", gets pruned, and thrown into the fire- it's all about partaking of the divine nature- LOVE Y'ALL- WE ALL GONNA FLOW IN LOVE!  :happygrin:

Rev 20:12-15  And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.  (13)  And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.  (14)  And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.  (15)  And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

[Taffy]

The flesh has been nailed to the Cross; FOR ALL — FOREVER

Then what is cleansed away from mankind in the Lake of Fire?

Why can't I get a direct answer to a direct question?

I think I'll start another thread....

Whats destroyed is the Cause of DEATH[ death of death] itself , where does DEATH live[ well in the grave of Course after a Spiritual Truth ], The soul being The Heart/ mind, will desire and emotions of that which is Flesh , as Paul states to BE CARNALLY minded is DEATH , and is Not subject to the Law of the Spirit ....Romans 8 is a great chapter..

TIS a reneweing of the Soul  :icon_flower:

[CHB]

Taffy,

Loved your post.  :HeartThrob: Anything that is associated with death whether it be physical or spiritual will be cast into the lake of fire!!!  This is what you are saying, right?     :thumbsup:

CHB

[Taffy]

Taffy,

Loved your post.  :HeartThrob: Anything that is associated with death whether it be physical or spiritual will be cast into the lake of fire!!!  This is what you are saying, right?     :thumbsup:

CHB

:icon_flower:

The soul which is cleansed, as In moving from DEATH to LIFE in HIM. :icon_flower:

[eaglesway]

I see the second death and the lake of fire a little differently than some. The gathering together of all things in Christ is an administration suitable to the fulness of times, there are historical periods involved, for instance, as in the 'world before Noah", as in partial hardening of Israel until the fulness of the Gentiles is brought in, all Israel will be saved but...."each on his own order." The ressurection of life is assured for all, but we were once enemies, hostile of mind and darkened in understanding. We have "Now Received the reconciliation" by repentance and faith which is the gift of God. We are no longer enemies, "if we continue in the faith". Some are still enemies, in varying degrees. All will be reconciled-every enemy will repent and believe the gospel-every single one. They will all alike confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of the Father. The second death and the lake of fire play a part in that. Before anyone gets crazy- I am not talking about burning flesh or any such thing.
   Those who have died.....who have reckoned themselves dead because of faith in Christ's tasting death for them and faith in His resurrection.....who have stood in the fire(and having done all to stand), whether they were hired in the AM or the eleventh hour (parable of workers in a field) will participate in the first resurrection and will reign as a kingdom of priests (a divine reign of love and reconciliation) 1000 years. All the rest of the dead will appear before the judgement seat of Christ to be judged by the secrets of their hearts(romans ch 1&2). Everyone whose name has not been written in the book of life (to Him who overcomes I will not blot his name out of the book of life) will enter directly into whatever the joy of the Lord is. The rest will experience the lake of fire- whatever that is, and "the Day"(1 Cor 3:15- 17) will reveal, make void and unravel the darkness, adversaries, veils, rebellions etc. The flesh is nailed to the cross fr all forever- but it has no benefit until it is received. Psalm 51..... Against thee and thee only have I sinned and done that which is evil in thy sight....purge me with hyssop and I will be clean..... repentance and faith are the way that the adversaries become reconciled.

[Seth]

I am sure this has been answered here many times, so forgive me for asking again. I am trying to read as much as I can about the UR doctrine, but reading about the Lake of fire last night, and seeing plainly that there will be souls judged and thrown into it, how do you reconcile that with UR?

And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Rev 20:15


Thanks,


S

Hi friend,
If you can accept that revelation is symbolic, you will be able to understand what my presented view on it is, because I think it is clearly symbolic. Here is what I see, regarding the PICTURE of the lake of fire presented in Revelation.

We cannot separate the LOF from the picture of "New Jerusalem" which is described in the Book of Hebrews as "the church of the firstborn." In Revelation God says "I make my tabernacle with man" then the book proceeds to describe a descending city, which is the SYMBOL of the "church of the living God." That city is not brick and mortar. It's not anything physical like that. It's the church. It's the Spirit filled OBEDIENT (ie not just the faith claimers).

One CANNOT analyze Gehenna/Lake of Fire without also considering Jerusalem, because this is a picture. You cannot look at only one part of a painting and think it is the whole painting. You have to look at the whole thing. What is the picture Jesus painted with the parables?

Gehenna is the garbage dump outside the city? What city? Jerusalem. What does that symbolize? Heaven and Hell? No. New Jerusalem is the church, the bride, not heaven itself.

Does it not stand to reason that the picture of the LOF is therefore, not "hell" but that which is spiritually outside the Spirit filled obedient church? That places the lake of fire spiritually in the world TODAY and YESTERDAY and TOMORROW, until ALL people are brought in to the church.

This is why I do not say that members of the Body are currently in the LOF. No, that would be to ignore the picture. We WERE in the LOF until we heeded the words of the Bride:

Revelation 22:17
The Spirit and the bride say, "Come!" And let him who hears say, "Come!" Whoever is thirsty, let him come; and whoever wishes, let him take the free gift of the water of life.

The "water of life": another symbol in this unveiling of Jesus Christ, the body, the bride (who is ONE with that Christ). The book of revelation is the unveiling of Jesus Christ, and who is Jesus Christ: The Lord and his increase. Revelation is symbolic of the church whose head is the man Jesus Christ, and whose members are his obedient.

The Bride does not TOMORROW say "come drink" do they? No, that's not future stuff. That's NOW. Come drink, is what that bride, that New Jerusalem says. Come drink the water we drink from, that Spirit. Who do they speak these words to, even today? The Spiritually DEPLETED: the dogs (spiritual Gentiles) whoremongers, liars, all in the LOF.

This is why you do not need to fear sscoulter. The Lake of Fire is not carnal, but spiritual. It is not physical, but a spiritual condition which exists even today. Paul said that the INVISIBLE things of God are understood by the things which are MADE.

We understand the invisible spiritual condition of slavery to sin as a burning lake of fire, in which those who are in it today (look around you at the lonelyness of Spirit in the ghetto, in the war theatres, in the abusive homes etc) by the physical SYMBOL of the Lake of Fire. You cannot see what the LOF symbolizes. FIRE is that which is MADE by which we understand the invisible condition of lacking in Spirit on the inside of all them who are there right now even on this earth.

Look at the Prodigal Son parable and you will understand how those who were in the House, were cast out into the outer darkness and eventually returned to drink from the water of life. The Prodigal Son did the same thing. He left the house, went out into a burning lake of fire where he was a slave to sin, thirsty for water, and then returned to his father's house where his father received him. He was dead, then he was alive. He was lost, then he was found.

How we reconcile this with UR is incredibly simple: Righteousness in the Spirit and deliverance from sin is a gift purchased on the Cross (Romans 5) and that gift cannot be refused. So God will inspire all to drink from the water of life, be buried in baptism of the Spirit and planted together in Christ's death to the flesh, and therefore be saved from sin and loneliness of Spirit.

That is what I believe about the LOF. It just makes sense to me based on the NT's testimony of the gift of the Spirit and salvation from sin, and spiritual circumcision, and spiritual Gentile and Jew etc etc etc.

[Seth]

Also, I have been considering the idea that the term "second death" is not necessarily a statement of sequence (by which one death follows another) but a statement of supremacy (that one thing is over another). All things are placed under Christ's feet, which is why the last enemy to be destroyed (according to Paul) is death. Which death is the enemy: dying to the flesh, or dying in the flesh. I would say that the second death mentioned in that last sentence is the enemy.

Perhaps the term "second death" means that death TO sin in Christ is so far above death IN sin apart from Christ, that the very term "second death" is a statement of Christ's superiority over the flesh. Therefore he able to deliver those who suffer in the lower death into a much higher death by the Spirit away from the flesh. Just something I am considering, that the term "second death" may not be horizontal, but vertical, one thing over another. That would certainly reconcile Revelation 21-22 with the fact that God is love and being love, He will indeed destroy all barriers to be all in all.

[Zeek]

Wondering if most here see the "wrath of God" as the same thing as the LOF/second death? 

Through this wrath, death of death (ministration of death, law mindset). 


Or is the wrath of God not the same as LOF??


Where I'm coming from, is we know the LAW worketh wrath.  And the wrath of God is revealed against all ungodliness (liars, etc). 

And the law is the tutor to lead us to Christ,

but once faith is come, one is no longer under a tutor.

but


under grace, (chastening by fire as a son).


The law came through Moses

grace came through Christ. 



So the trial of one's FAITH by fire, can not be the same as the LOF/second death (if it is the same as the wrath of God, via law abiding mindset).



and if all go through lake of fire for purification; then personally; my lake of fire (from law to FAITH) wasn't that "horrible of a lot".  As long as I can remember (since 4 years old), I've had faith in Christ, and had my faith tried; but to come to that faith, wasn't that horrible. 

Anyway, my point really being; I don't see how the trial by fire (of our faith) is the LOF, when I am not under LAW. 



any thots?

[Zeek]

This is why I do not say that members of the Body are currently in the LOF. No, that would be to ignore the picture. We WERE in the LOF until we heeded the words of the Bride:

so do you believe you once were "hurt" of the second death? 

[Zeek]

what does it mean to be "hurt of the second death", since per Rev 2; some won't be hurt of it; which implies some will be hurt of it??

[Zeek]

Is the wrath of God the same as second death??

[Zeek]

Seems to me the second death is not those in the "outer court", but rather the "wrath" revealed against those in the outer court.

Rom 1:18  For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

but for those "who hold the truth in unrighteousness",


those who "will never be forgiven"


not for the ignorant, who "forgive them for they know not what they do".


Rom 1:21  Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

Heb 10:26  For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

1Jn 2:23  Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that confesseth the Son hath the Father also.'

2Ti 2:12  if we endure, we shall also reign with him: if we shall deny him, he also will deny us:

Heb 6:4  For as touching those who were once enlightened and tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit,

Heb 6:5  and tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the age to come,

Heb 6:6  and then fell away, it is impossible to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
 

[Seth]

and if all go through lake of fire for purification; then personally; my lake of fire (from law to FAITH) wasn't that "horrible of a lot".  As long as I can remember (since 4 years old), I've had faith in Christ, and had my faith tried; but to come to that faith, wasn't that horrible. 

Anyway, my point really being; I don't see how the trial by fire (of our faith) is the LOF, when I am not under LAW. 



any thots?

I agree. It's not the trial of one's faith.  :thumbsup:

I currently understand the LOF this way: take everything that New Jerusalem is not, and whatever you have left is the LOF.

New Jerusalem is:

Galatians 4
21Tell me, you who want to be under the law, are you not aware of what the law says? 22For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the slave woman and the other by the free woman. 23His son by the slave woman was born in the ordinary way; but his son by the free woman was born as the result of a promise.
24These things may be taken figuratively, for the women represent two covenants. One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children who are to be slaves: This is Hagar. 25Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present city of Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children. 26But the Jerusalem that is above is free, and she is our mother. 27For it is written:
  "Be glad, O barren woman,
     who bears no children;
  break forth and cry aloud,
     you who have no labor pains;
  because more are the children of the desolate woman
     than of her who has a husband."

28Now you, brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise. 29At that time the son born in the ordinary way persecuted the son born by the power of the Spirit. It is the same now. 30But what does the Scripture say? "Get rid of the slave woman and her son, for the slave woman's son will never share in the inheritance with the free woman's son."[c] 31Therefore, brothers, we are not children of the slave woman, but of the free woman.

---------

Hebrews 12
22But you have come to Mount Zion, to the heavenly Jerusalem, the city of the living God. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly, 23to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the judge of all men, to the spirits of righteous men made perfect, 24to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.

25See to it that you do not refuse him who speaks. If they did not escape when they refused him who warned them on earth, how much less will we, if we turn away from him who warns us from heaven? 26At that time his voice shook the earth, but now he has promised, "Once more I will shake not only the earth but also the heavens." 27The words "once more" indicate the removing of what can be shaken—that is, created things—so that what cannot be shaken may remain.

------------

Ok, so the heavenly New Jerusalem is the city of the living God, the church of the first born etc. This is something we HAVE come to, an something we will continue to be perfected within. To know what the LOF therefore is, just work back from what you know about New Jerusalem and THAT is the LOF/Gehenna.

The LOF, the "city dump" is OUTSIDE the "city."

James 3:6
And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of Gehenna.

I believe the LOF is a "world of iniquity" (not meaning a planet, but a state of being.) That I do believe to be a judgment of God, but in a different way than the church is tried. I believe this is the manner of the judgment of the LOF:

1 Cor 5:5
Hand this man over to Satan, so that the sinful nature may be destroyed and his spirit saved on the day of the Lord.

God gives grace to the humble and resists the proud. In Ecclesiastes we learn that God has given the travail of evil to the sons of man to be humbled thereby. That is how I believe God uses the "world of iniquity" to humble the proud. I don't pretend to know all the symbols in Revelation and how they all piece together, but this is a view of the LOF that I believe matches the NT.