I saw the lake of fire

[CHB]

I am sorry for the confusion here.

I wrote:
"I am thinking this is the second death. I am also wondering if this second death and the lake of fire isn't just for Israel"?

I do believe Revelation was written mostly for Israel because of referring to "overcoming" which Christ has overcome all things for us. Also Christ being referred to as a lamb. Most everything referres to the Kingdom of God which will be here on earth. Most everything is happening,... I am thinking,... during the thousand years.

I could be wrong on all of this and more than likely wrong on some of it but God isn't finished with me yet, so be patient.  :Peace2:

God is a respector of persons in some cases, he chose Israel over all other nations to be an example to the world.

CHB   

[marie glen]

Oh! CHB, I thought, for some reason you were talking about the 1st and 2nd resurrections.. So that's why I posted the verses about them, oiye  :doh:

:Peace2: :smile:

[CHB]

marie, no problem at all.  :girlheart:

CHB

[marie glen]

 :thumbsup: thanks, I'm hoping all my senior moments don't start connecting one day! :faint:  :laugh2:

[darryl]

I am sorry for the confusion here.

I wrote:
"I am thinking this is the second death. I am also wondering if this second death and the lake of fire isn't just for Israel"?

I do believe Revelation was written mostly for Israel because of referring to "overcoming" which Christ has overcome all things for us. Also Christ being referred to as a lamb. Most everything referres to the Kingdom of God which will be here on earth. Most everything is happening,... I am thinking,... during the thousand years.

I could be wrong on all of this and more than likely wrong on some of it but God isn't finished with me yet, so be patient.  :Peace2:

God is a respector of persons in some cases, he chose Israel over all other nations to be an example to the world.

CHB   

He chose Israel to bless others, yes..

[Patinak]

For me ..... the Lake of Fire "IS" the Baptism of Fire ..... the Baptism of the Holy Spirit ..... the purification process ..... the testing by fire (a touchstone)

It is why the second death (second part) of death has no power over those who have already gone through it ..... already received it

the first part of death is the death of the nature (death of the Adam nature) which is also the first part of resurrection, because it has to die in order for it to be resurrected ..... so we are talking about the soul, the death of the old soul ..... which we know to be soul for soul ..... or IOW life for life

the first part of resurrection now being the death of the Adam nature now in turn brings about the inheritance ..... the giving of life ..... and when we understand that they are one in the same, we come to understand that the giving (increase) of life is the death (decrease) of death .... which we know Christ did on the cross ..... He put death to death

It is the finished work of Christ in us ..... His physical example is what we will all participate in spiritually ...... if not on this side of Jordan it will take place on the other side ..... and by the glory of God, all will be saved, all will be baptized in fire and when all, there will no longer be a need for it for "it is accomplished" what the Father started to do from the beginning ..... that being to have all of mankind baptized in fire

my  :2c:

Jugghead, what a great post!  Good food for thought.

Your line about 'life for life' reminded me about one from Joeteekay last year: "We live to die and we die to live."
Good stuff!

Since I used to work with precious metals quite a bit, I got 'hands on' refining experience, and actually I still own what might have been called a "torment" (touchstone), so I can relate (on the physical level) to the analogies in the bible about the purification process.  I read the other day an article on a site called Not1lost about this subject.  It was very good and I would guess the owner of the site might be someone that comes to 'the tent'. I would recommend the site.

As far as the touchstone, if anyone is interested, the way it is used (anyway, the way we used it):
There is a set of 'standards' of several known levels of gold purity (karats)
The item of unknown purity is streaked on the stone. (The modern test stone is a flat, black, natural stone. Smooth, and maybe 3" square and 3/8" thick). Generally you can guess the karat range by judging the color of the streak. 
After you guess the karat range, you streak one of the lower and one of the higher known standards on each side of the unknown.  Using a glass rod, acid is wiped across the streaks.  By observing the reaction, you can begin the process of determining whether to go up or down with the karat standard testing until you get a match.  (Lower karats will react sooner and disappear faster than the higher ones.)
When testing the higher karats, it is necessary to add salt to the (nitric) acid to promote a reaction.  Pure gold cannot be dissolved by a single acid, but requires a combination of nitric and hydrochloric acid which is called 'aqua regia' (latin translation- 'royal water'). 
Other precious metals can be tested on the torment with different methods (it seems to be impervious to (most) acids). Some metals require a lot of time to test out,  I would say "aionios basanizō" 

Smelting is fluidizing metal and burning off impurities (wood, hay, stubble (and 'garbage'))with fire.

Refining is the purification of the smelted material.  Refining can be done in more than one way.  Maybe we can talk about it another time.

"That's all I have to say about that." - F.G.


One more thing, a little off topic.  Did you know that sulphur (brimstone) is usually found in salt domes. (Sodom, brimstone, Lot's wife, pillar of salt).  I don't think there's anything to it, just a coincidence.

:HeartThrob:  Pat

[eaglesway]

Actually Pat, in Andrew Jukes book, "the Restiitution of All Things" he goes into quite a bit of detail about sulfur/brimstone.. What he wrote made a big impact on me when I was first searching out UR themes.

theio- brimstone/sulfur- is a word that occurs in Greek early writings and refers to the fire used to purify vessels used in oblations to the gods.

Sulfur is a purifying agent and a catalyst. All this goes along with Juggheads view of the LOF, which I agree with.

Whatever is not mortified through faith in Christ will be mortified in the lake of fire, in the form of light consuming darkness, dragging hidden things to the surface to be slain by the two edged sword of the living and active word that divide asunder soul and spirit and "makes manifest" the thoughts nd intentions of the heart.

[rosered]

I love how Jugghead simplified      the lake fire!!

I know the cross of Jesus Christ that baptism  of fire     was all the sinners against him  , we also must  think like Jesus  and  consider the joy before us , enduring the  same sufferings of Christ   that we to can glory in God  and not in man , not even in our own  abilities , He is the one who gave ALL   for ALL
We are just following His example      [Luke 12 ;49]
We also despise  the shame of being   trampled upon  and mistreated  and abused  and those in doing so   , think they have the victory in their moment  , it is their darkness  and ignorance   , that does bring judgment of fire upon themselves ... as they judge so shall they be judged   , GODS WORD IS TRUTH , and by the Fiery law     those steams  of fire from the throne     do    judge us all ..   
The very intent of the HEART   , If it be  for anything other than LOVE will fail utterly    in defeat

  Jesus went though all this for our sakes  , not of his own sake , He had the POWER to lay down His life and take it back up again at any time     as the FATHER  gave Him this work   this   power to do so.

   The Touchstone  is Jesus Christ    symbolically  as being the foundation   laid down   as SOLID    and cannot ever be moved out its place

It is us whom stumble over it  and fall and  fail and cannot get up on our own , this judgment is in effect     and has been    since the cross


Hebrews 12  2fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God. 3For consider Him who has endured such hostility by sinners against Himself, so that you will not grow weary and lose heart.

Loosing heart is loosing the LOVE   , because iniquity abounds/ lawlessness  the love of many  wane cold 

  But Jesus also said ,  though the revelation  given to   Paul , because iniquity abounds /lawlessness     the grace of God abounds the more ...


  Grace is how we are saved it is the gift of God AND  not of ourselves     ..
 
  The white stones purified in the fire  , verses the  black stones  that have not  yet been purified  in the fire  , these are symbolic of hearts     
Make in me a clean heart   oh Lord ........

This is seeing corruption    being in the world but not of it .....  not a partaker

  When Jesus was baptised in the    Jordan  , by John the  baptist   , that all righteousness be fulfilled    ,
  He set the example in place     , that we too     would  also     go though      , coming up out of the Jordan ,  meaning descent , lowering being humbled     as to  Receiving  the Dove / Spirit /CLOUD and Voice of God  this is my son  in whom I am well pleased ''Listen to HIM ''   

Being  sent  to the wilderness to be tested  , by the HOLY SPIRIT    and   satan was allowed to    sift   under the law

  We know for a  fact this is when Jesus cover come the world     by temptation ,  satan offered the kingdoms of the world to him and   asking the Father to send  messengers   to protect Him and   turning the  stones  hearts  of mankind to bread of Life ..

  JESUS REBUKED SATAN !!    WITH THE WORD OF GOD IN POWER BY THE  HOLY SPIRIT  WITNESS ..GOD makes a way of escape      ...

We war not against  flesh and blood but  spiritual principalities  in high places   , that temptation     [ Jesus prayer in John 17 ]   Holy Spirit lead us not into temptation but deliver us from evil    .



All the scriptures testify of the exact same things   and fit together perfectly     

  Spiritual warfare  is being prepared  by Gods Spirit though His Word   
  Blessed is He whom is in the first resurrection     , this baptism    of approval of God     [SEAL] and  the 2nd death has no power  / satan cannot touch you ...

satan   murderer / dead bodies  are held  in     is cast into the fire  with the false prophet[liars ] and  beast   carnal minded   where all death dwells  in   ....

All life and the Power of all Life dwells in Jesus Christ of Heavenly   things as always ,     the very opposite of   death and all that power in it  earthly things as temporary

GOD will save all by the POWER OF THE WORD AND SPIRIT   working in us all , not just a few , but all   
HE will accomplish   ''ALL THINGS ''  that He started   long before we ever   become aware .

[marie glen]

theio- brimstone/sulfur- is a word that occurs in Greek early writings and refers to the fire used to purify vessels used in oblations to the gods.

Sulfur is a purifying agent and a catalyst.

....... :thumbsup: very interesting! (to purify vessels) :dsunny:

[Cardinal]

Using a glass rod, acid is wiped across the streaks.  By observing the reaction, you can begin the process of determining whether to go up or down with the karat standard testing until you get a match.  (Lower karats will react sooner and disappear faster than the higher ones.)
When testing the higher karats, it is necessary to add salt to the (nitric) acid to promote a reaction.  Pure gold cannot be dissolved by a single acid, but requires a combination of nitric and hydrochloric acid which is called 'aqua regia' (latin translation- 'royal water'). 
"aionios basanizō" 

:cloud9: Great post. This in particular, caught my eye and my ear.  :winkgrin:

Gold speaks of the nature of God, which is why all the furniture at a certain point in the Tabernacle pattern was either covered with gold, or was made of pure gold. We are becoming one with those pieces of furniture as Christ is formed in us, and ultimately the Father will reside in revealed glory in us also, as our "double portion", for the priest's portion was God Himself.

So; first of all, something corrosive is used to test our "metal". The less we have, the quicker it disappears under the rigors of testing.

f we have more, it takes longer to wear away, and requires SALT to be added as a catalyst increase. All the offerings made to Him had to be salted with salt, save I think, one perhaps (will have to reread to be sure).

And it it's PURE, it requires DOUBLE PORTION (Job) to test it. It's ALL spiritual.  :thumbsup: Blessings....

[marie glen]

Thank you Cardinal! (and Patinak) for that post.. I've never really understood "why the animal sacrifices".. I know of course how they represent Jesus' cross for the "salvation of the world"..

Your post has helped to shed light on this for me! (and is another u.r. 'proof'? :Chinscratch: His revealing what the lof is..?)

[sheila]

TEST-I-MONY...Luke 16;11....of treasures of the heart

[rosered]

   This faith  when proved is  more precious than gold  ,When touched by God !!  1 Peter 1

A Living Hope

...6In this you greatly rejoice, even though now for a little while, if necessary, you have been distressed by various trials,

7so that the proof of your faith, being more precious than gold which is perishable, even though tested by fire, may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ;

8and though you have not seen Him, you love Him, and though you do not see Him now, but believe in Him, you greatly rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory,...

Job 23:10
But he knows the way that I take; when he has tested me, I will come forth as gold.

Psalm 17:3
Though you probe my heart, though you examine me at night and test me, you will find that I have planned no evil; my mouth has not transgressed.

Psalm 66:10
For you, God, tested us; you refined us like silver.

Luke 17:30
"It will be just like this on the day the Son of Man is revealed.

Romans 2:7
To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

Romans 2:10
but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile.

Romans 8:19
For the creation waits in eager expectation for the children of God to be revealed.

1 Corinthians 3:13
their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person's work.

James 1:3
because you know that the testing of your faith produces perseverance.

1 Peter 1:13
Therefore, with minds that are alert and fully sober, set your hope on the grace to be brought to you when Jesus Christ is revealed at his coming.

1 Peter 4:13
But rejoice inasmuch as you participate in the sufferings of Christ, so that you may be overjoyed when his glory is revealed.

1 Peter 5:1
To the elders among you, I appeal as a fellow elder and a witness of Christ's sufferings who also will share in the glory to be revealed:

2 Peter 3:14
So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him.

Revelation 3:18
I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear, so you can cover your shameful nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see.

Without faith you cannot See Jesus  or His kingdom  , with faith in God all things are possible and you  do SEE JESUS    and His Kingdom in the Spirit    in everything !! :HeartThrob:

[eaglesway]

Wonderful batch of scriptures!

[marie glen]

Wonderful batch of scriptures!

Amen! :iagree: :thumbsup:

[marie glen]

[note: literal as metaphor, and metaphor as literal? two, metaphor/literal bearing witness..]

I still believe the lake of fire to a refiner's crucible and fiery remorse.. Salted with fire, purified.. But also today, during morning reading and prayer time, it seemed very clear to me ( :2c: of course).. that, first, it occurs three times.. what fire will the (world) beast and the false prophet(teacher/teaching) be "brought to" (end Rev 19) (note: considering one potential of the Greek - to bring to) - they are, imo, institutions of man active/alive at the time of Jesus' return, but they go to the lake of fire, and seemed real obvious to me what lake of fire they go to.. that last fiery conflagration that occurs at Armageddon (shades of 2 Peter) - which element of the latter age, the days of our Lord, A.D. began in 1945 (imo) with the Opening of the 6th seal - then paused, Rev.7 - but described at opening/beginning as a blend of what it is at the first and what it is at the 'end' when fully progressed/galloped-though this seal is not written as riding a horse, lol.

Then, 1000 years later ("when the 1000 years are ended" just before the rest of the dead, those not yet saved, are resurrected "and the sea gave up its dead, and the grave gave up its dead.." ...John saw "all, great and small, standing before the throne of God"). But just previous to that, many are gathered by Satan and they surround the city of God (not yet the New Jerusalem of Rev 21) - but "fire comes down from heaven and devours them". (2nd lake of fire, fiery, liquid like conflagration(?) - This is before the resurrection of all those who die still disobedient (i.e. still "subjected to disobedience" until they repent).

After that surrounding the city and fire from heavens, is Judgment 'Day'... after which, death and the grave are cast into the lake of fire/2nd death. And also any (still?) not written in the book of Life -- Then next, we see, that "all things are made new" and "the sea will no longer be" which I think refers to the lof.

Which this time of the new heavens and earth, I have to think coincides with 2 Peter's "the present heavens and earth reserved for the day of judgment, within which ('day') the elements will melt with a ferocious heat.." And then John "saw a new heavens and a new earth" which Peter wrote "wherein righteousness" (100% "approved by God" :cloud9: ) "will dwell".

:2c: :Chinscratch: :Peace2:

[sheila]

 :2c:Eccl 3;16 Intheplaceof judgement,wickedness was there.In the place ofjustice,wickedness was there.

Job,1;6  The sinners in Zion were afraid...who can dwell with continual burnings?[satan and his angels[evilspirits]fearing the coming LOF

that will consume them..the 2nd death PREPARED FOR SATAN AND HIS ANGELS..of whom Christ will separate from men...when He appears

again..SEPERATE/apart FROM SIN..andyouwillbe just likeHim..separate from sin.

Wickedness...a woman..carried off to the land of Shinar/Babylon...of whom all man's spilled blood is credited.

Habakuk 1;4for the wicked encompass the righteous...therefore justice is perverted.

sin entered in through one man...thus allmen were constituted sinners[sin in flesh condemned in allmen]  through the righteousness of

one man..Jesus Christ...all men receive righteousness as a free gift..or justification.

now have spirits of'just[ified]men to be made perfect...By His knowledge He shall justify many!

God's judgement..all men subjected unto vanity..all men fall short of theglory..all men bear the imageof the corrupt one..that no flesh

shallboast. He bound up allmenindisobedience..in order toshowmercy unto all. THEN..the freegift!!!!

People are unaware that God has been sowingHisHoly spirit seed[children]in the earth from thebeginning...inthis way the Holycity

has been descending and ascending backup toHeaven.Yes,all men's spirits are Jesus descendants! See Peter's vision of the animals

on the sheet coming down from heaven and returning.

we should all recognize there is no longer any curse under the law. for man.because of the new covenant of Grace mercy through

Jesus Christ,if we areborn from above. Bless andcurse not..God with us! O'immanuel! not call any man unclean because of what

Jesus as 'the Word of God' has spoken..He came tosave..not condemn.

we are not to curse any man into the LOF....the true 'cursed' are satan andhisangels..ofwhom Jesus said that the LOFis prepared for!

There is a KINGDOM PREPARED FOR US BEFORE THIS WORLD WAS FOUNDED!! BEFORE WE WERE SENT DOWN!!SUBJECTED TO VANITY

BOUND IN DISOBEDIENCE!

   THEWORD OF GOD COME IN FLESH SAID SATAN AND HIS ANGELS[demons]ARE CURSED IN THE LOF..AND THAT MEN ARE SHEEP

AND BLESSED AND INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD PREPARED FOR THEM AND ARE SEPERATED FROM THIER EVIL SPIRITS[sin]!

being savedthrough fire=the removal and destruction of satan/sin/evil spirits/accuser/death in the LOF!!!!

[TheJason]

I'm thinking most in their interpretation of this would associate hellfire and brimstone cause that's what they were taught - what was put in the church via mythology.

[marie glen]

Amen Sheila and Jason! :hiya:

[Batty Bible Page]

If most ETers thought about it, they'd probably find that most of their honest and heartfelt repentance experiences came out of a kind of torment and were reaching for help.

Or, they're conversion experience came out of a deep and desperate fear that Hell was real.

Hades was the Greek's god of the underworld. Fire, brimstone, all of it , was his domain called Tartarus. Fascinating myth really. Said to be located in the center of the earth. Interestingly enough, that is the theorized core of our home planet that is said to be of molten lava. Which would be a literal lake of fire and brimstone.
https://youtu.be/BH23AKkFg1s