Everlasting contempt?

[MacPherson]

Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.
Daniel 12:2

What's your take on what everlasting contempt means?

Young's Literal Translation reads:

And the multitude of those sleeping in the dust of the ground do awake, some to life age-during, and some to reproaches -- to abhorrence age-during.

It's not the everlasting/aionios part I'm wondering about, but rather the overall implication.

What is everlasting contempt?

[sheila]

Hi,

   I think it pertains to this.

    Rev 23;15

   OUTSIDE ARE THE DOGS,THOSE WHO PRACTICE MAJIC ARTS

   THE SEXUALLY IMMORAL,THE MURDERS,THE IDOLATERS

   AND EVERYONE WHO LOVES AND PRACTICES FALSEHOOD

    I beleive all these things above will expierence everlasting

   contempt.  Mere dirt, the dross, filthy rags, sinful flesh etc

   Jesus refining fire will cleanse and exclude with contempt

  such things listed above

                              :HeartThrob:

[sven]

I have problems with this verse also, more than with Matthew 25:46

[sheila]

   Hi Guys,

   Realizing He will remove such things from everyone, for all

mankind will bear the image of Jesus Christ.

  Each man has his own goat that perishes in the wilderness,

  and own sheep that enters into the kingdom.

   Each man has a mark of the beast that dies..and a seal from

  God in his forehead.  Man has and will bear two images

  the corruptible image will be destryed..the incorruptible

will have eternal life.

   There is a definite end and casting outside of these things

despised from the Kingdom of Heaven.  He does not throw the

baby out with the bathwater. But cleanses the child..and casts

away the mere dirt.

   does that help any?

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Amen  :thumbsup:

[MacPherson]

Hi,

   I think it pertains to this.

    Rev 23;15

   OUTSIDE ARE THE DOGS,THOSE WHO PRACTICE MAJIC ARTS

   THE SEXUALLY IMMORAL,THE MURDERS,THE IDOLATERS

   AND EVERYONE WHO LOVES AND PRACTICES FALSEHOOD

    I beleive all these things above will expierence everlasting

   contempt.  Mere dirt, the dross, filthy rags, sinful flesh etc

   Jesus refining fire will cleanse and exclude with contempt

  such things listed above

                              :HeartThrob:

Excellent correlation. 23:15 is the passage my pastor feels cements the Bible teaching eternal punishment as opposed to annihilation.

[MacPherson]

I have problems with this verse also, more than with Matthew 25:46

Most people have trouble with it. That's why I'm not bothered by most saints believing in and saying the Bible teaches eternal punishment.

[willieH]

willieH: How-D!  :laughing7:

Concerning Dan 2:2

FIRST --  God is UNCHANGING... so whatever point "angers" Him, shall always be a point of "anger"... however, His "anger" is for a MOMENT which is the actual DURATION of His "anger"...

IOW -- He doesn't "stay mad"... He "gets over it"... however the point or thing that made Him "mad" could never arise in Him other than "anger"... i.e. "everlasting contempt" (toward that "point")

EXAMPLE -- PAIN is a result of His Wrath... but PAIN shall CEASE, for the behaviors that BRING it FORTH, shall CEASE.  :dontknow:

SECOND --  The actual meaning of the word "CONTEMPT" in this verse is "repulsion" -- which solidifies what I just said... that which is REPULSIVE to GOD, shall (or would be even though it shall not re-occur) ALWAYS be REPULSIVE to GOD...

EXAMPLE -- KILLING -- even though DEATH is eliminated by the CROSS of CHRIST, concerning ETERNITY, does not mean that GOD would EVER be any less "REPULSED" by it.  For He is LIFE and the concept of DEATH is contrary to Himself.

THIRD --  In the story of Jonah -- He was actually tossed into the sea and swallowed up by the fish, for 3 Days and 3 Nights which was representative of the TIME period which CHRIST would be in the tomb -- Jonah 1:17 --  

The Hebrew word OWLAM translated "for EVER" (same word as used in Dan 2:2) is attached to this period in -- Jonah 2:6 -- as Jonah described the depth to which his sorrow had decended, but indeed it was NOT "for EVER" as Jonah was cast OUT of the Fish, within a 3 Day period.

What I am saying is that our sorrow, SHAME and regret IN THE MOMENT of God's Anger" can be so deep as to appear "never ending" for THAT MOMENT in its capacity to be SORROWFUL, is PERFECT and COMPLETE as HE is PERFECT and COMPLETE.

GOD shall not TORMENT anyone that rises from the dust, but as they, within their MOMENT (duration of God's "anger") are in the SHADOW of the CONTEMPT of PERFECT ANGER, ...said "MOMENT" shall not END "soon enough"  :dontknow:

The SHAME that shall be experienced in the resurrection (as with Jonah and his plight in the fish) will actually be very BRIEF, but because of the PERFECTION of the MOMENT, it will seem UNENDING.

I have given this example before...

TIME and its "duration" is a VERY RELATIVE entity.  A "7-day vacation in Hawaii",  goes by in a WISK!   However, put your hand on a stove burner for 5 seconds and compare that 5 seconds to the 7 days of the vacation, and see which YOU THINK is LONGER!  :laughing7:

:Peace:

...willieH  :cloud9:

[MacPherson]

  Hi Guys,

  Realizing He will remove such things from everyone, for all

mankind will bear the image of Jesus Christ.

 Each man has his own goat that perishes in the wilderness,

 and own sheep that enters into the kingdom.

  Each man has a mark of the beast that dies..and a seal from

 God in his forehead.  Man has and will bear two images

 the corruptible image will be destryed..the incorruptible

will have eternal life.

  There is a definite end and casting outside of these things

despised from the Kingdom of Heaven.  He does not throw the

baby out with the bathwater. But cleanses the child..and casts

away the mere dirt.

  does that help any?

Philosophically it sounds wonderful, but do you have hard Scripture to back it up? Say three that seem as strong and compelling as  Daniel 12:2 + Matthew 25:46 + Rev 23:15 (the ET trifecta)?

(I'm playing Devil's Advocate here)

[Paul Hazelwood]

We all have trouble with any verse because we bias what it says beyond what is actually written.

Revelation 22:15 all by itself does not mention they are outside forever, nor does it even say they are outside temporarily.  

[willieH]

willieH: Hi Brian... :hithere:

Philosophically it sounds wonderful, but do you have hard Scripture to back it up? Say three that seem as strong and compelling as  Daniel 12:2 + Matthew 25:46 + Rev 23:15 (the ET trifecta)?

(I'm playing Devil's Advocate here)

Devil's advocate, or not, bro... if EARS are not availed to the potential "listener" by GOD, ...a THOUSAND Scriptures will not convince an ET'er --  :dontknow:

...willieH  :cloud9:

[MacPherson]

willieH: How-D!  :laughing7:

Concerning Dan 2:2

FIRST --  God is UNCHANGING... so whatever point "angers" Him, shall always be a point of "anger"... however, His "anger" is for a MOMENT which is the actual DURATION of His "anger"...

IOW -- He doesn't "stay mad"... He "gets over it"... however the point or thing that made Him "mad" could never arise in Him other than "anger"... i.e. "everlasting contempt" (toward that "point")

I just got finished reading God dealing with Cain for murdering Abel (I'm going through a daily reader Bible where you read the entire Bible in one year - which I highly recomend to any reading this) and how God dealt with him. There was no, "Forever I shall inflict agony and torment upon you".

[MacPherson]

willieH: Hi Brian... :hithere:

Philosophically it sounds wonderful, but do you have hard Scripture to back it up? Say three that seem as strong and compelling as  Daniel 12:2 + Matthew 25:46 + Rev 23:15 (the ET trifecta)?

(I'm playing Devil's Advocate here)

Devil's advocate, or not, bro... if EARS are not availed to the potential "listener" by GOD, ...a THOUSAND Scriptures will not convince an ET'er --  :dontknow:

...willieH  :cloud9:

Many of course are concerned with not having itching ears. And on the surface, I can see how to many it sounds just like that. "Ye shall surely not die".

[MacPherson]

We all have trouble with any verse because we bias what it says beyond what is actually written.

Revelation 22:15 all by itself does not mention they are outside forever, nor does it even say they are outside temporarily.  

I think that at this point being in heaven forever has been established, so the conclusion is that those who are outside, are also outside forever. That the eternal order of things has been established at this point.

[Paul Hazelwood]

We all have trouble with any verse because we bias what it says beyond what is actually written.

Revelation 22:15 all by itself does not mention they are outside forever, nor does it even say they are outside temporarily.  

I think that at this point being in heaven forever has been established, so the conclusion is that those who are outside, are also outside forever. That the eternal order of things has been established at this point.

I know the reasoning, but the reasoning is not sound,  even the idea of being in heaven forever, what verse says we are in heaven forever specifically and to that point when there will be a new heaven and earth?   

What is the most common is many of us including me will have believed an interpretation given by religion more than a grounding in what scripture says as opposed to what it does not say.

I say this knowing that my reasoning for all I believe is often not sound, but based on what is pleasant.

[sheila]

Hi Brian,

   one is two men shall be sleeping in a bed, one will be taken

and one will be left behind. Seperate the people one from

another, goats go into everlasting cutting off, sheep to the

kingdom prepared.Genesis 25;23...The Lord said to her,

  TWO NATIONS ARE IN THY WOMB...and

  TWO PEOPLES FROM WITHIN YOU WILL BE SEPERATED;

   ONE PEOPLE WILL BE STRONGER THAN THE OTHER

   AND THE OLDER WILL SERVE THE YOUNGER

  Cursed be Canan the lowest of slaves will he be to his brother

   Romans 9;11,12   yet, before the twins were born,

or had done anything good or bad, in order that God's purpose in the election might stand, not by works but by Him who calls- she was told, the older will serve the younger. Just as it is written, Jacob I loved,Esau I hated...

   v 21 Does not the potter HAVE THE RIGHT TO MAKE

  OUT OF THE SAME LUMP OF CLAY SOME POTTERY FOR NOBLE

PURPOSES AND SOME FOR COMMON USE?



   Matthew 8;28  The Healing of "two" demon possessed men

     what do you want with us,son of God, did you come here to torture us before the appointed time?

     Mark 5  The healing of 'A' demon possessed man

v 2 when Jesus got out of the boat "a" man with an evil spirit came to meet him.....v 6  when HE SAW JESUS FROM A DISTANCE, HE RAN AND FELL ON HIS KNEES IN FRONT OF HIM

  ....v.15  when they came to Jesus they saw the man that had been possessed by the legion of demons, sitting there dressed and in his right mind.

   this is the same account  two men in one, one taken,one left behind.

  hope this gives him something to think about :HeartThrob:

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: :thumbsup:

[willieH]

willieH: hello me bratha's Brian  :afFro: and Paul  :icon_rr:

We all have trouble with any verse because we bias what it says beyond what is actually written.

Revelation 22:15 all by itself does not mention they are outside forever, nor does it even say they are outside temporarily.  

I think that at this point being in heaven forever has been established, so the conclusion is that those who are outside, are also outside forever. That the eternal order of things has been established at this point.

My  :2c:

The ETERNAL "order" of things HAS ALWAYS BEEN, IS, and ALWAYS WILL BE... :dontknow:

TIME and the revelation of the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL, which is GOD's KNOWLEDGE to begin with, ...is a temporal event for REVELATION only... not for "EXPERIENCE" in the ETERNAL.

MEN are emergent from the CREATIVE WORD of GOD... which contains the KNOWLEDGE and is SO displaying it for ALL in Heaven and Earth to see...

The CHILDREN of the MOST HIGH are the LIVING players in this LIVING portrayal (of the REVELATION of the KNOWLEDGE of the WORD)... and a GREAT GLORY is given unto the HEAD of them, as well as to the REST of them (the BODY) which NEVER CHANGES... and is therefore PREPARED unto that UNCHANGING and ETERNAL GLORY...

SPIRITUALLY = when JESUS came forth, ...His BODY came forth WITH HIM... The REVELATION of the KNOWLEDGE of GOD (the GOOD portion = CHRIST = the HEAD) IS FINISHED.

PHYSICALLY = But the REVELATION of the KNOWLEDGE of GOD (the EVIL portion = ALL in ADAM = the BODY) is NOT FINISHED -- and yet to find its fullness. (but its getting pretty doggone close!  :laughing7:)

The PERFECTLY GOOD -- HEAD NEVER SINNED and is the REDEEMER of the BODY which COMPLETELY SINNED and thereby became PERFECTLY EVIL...

Many shall observe EVIL as something "IMPERFECT"... but nothing of GOD or HIS WORD... which also NOTES EVIL, can be IMPERFECT...

The KNOWLEDGE that YHVH holds of EVIL as well as GOOD, is a PERFECT [full] KNOWLEDGE of both!  COMPLETE and ETERNAL...

For these are 2 sides of the same KNOWLEDGE, which is found in the HEART [Father] and WORD [Son - which is His expressed image and REVELATION of His HEART] --- of our complete and perfect, YHVH GOD.

:Peace:  willieH  :cloud9:

[Paul Hazelwood]

willieH: hello me bratha's Brian  :afFro: and Paul  :icon_rr:

We all have trouble with any verse because we bias what it says beyond what is actually written.

Revelation 22:15 all by itself does not mention they are outside forever, nor does it even say they are outside temporarily.  

I think that at this point being in heaven forever has been established, so the conclusion is that those who are outside, are also outside forever. That the eternal order of things has been established at this point.

My  :2c:

The ETERNAL "order" of things HAS ALWAYS BEEN, IS, and ALWAYS WILL BE... :dontknow:

TIME and the revelation of the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL, which is GOD's KNOWLEDGE to begin with, ...is a temporal event for REVELATION only... not for "EXPERIENCE" in the ETERNAL.

MEN are emergent from the CREATIVE WORD of GOD... which contains the KNOWLEDGE and is SO displaying it for ALL in Heaven and Earth to see...

The CHILDREN of the MOST HIGH are the LIVING players in this LIVING portrayal (of the REVELATION of the KNOWLEDGE of the WORD)... and a GREAT GLORY is given unto the HEAD of them, as well as to the REST of them (the BODY) which NEVER CHANGES... and is therefore PREPARED unto that UNCHANGING and ETERNAL GLORY...

SPIRITUALLY = when JESUS came forth, ...His BODY came forth WITH HIM... The REVELATION of the KNOWLEDGE of GOD (the GOOD portion = CHRIST = the HEAD) IS FINISHED.

PHYSICALLY = But the REVELATION of the KNOWLEDGE of GOD (the EVIL portion = ALL in ADAM = the BODY) is NOT FINISHED -- and yet to find its fullness. (but its getting pretty doggone close!  :laughing7:)

The PERFECTLY GOOD -- HEAD NEVER SINNED and is the REDEEMER of the BODY which COMPLETELY SINNED and thereby became PERFECTLY EVIL...

Many shall observe EVIL as something "IMPERFECT"... but nothing of GOD or HIS WORD... which also NOTES EVIL, can be IMPERFECT...

The KNOWLEDGE that YHVH holds of EVIL as well as GOOD, is a PERFECT [full] KNOWLEDGE of both!  COMPLETE and ETERNAL...

For these are 2 sides of the same KNOWLEDGE, which is found in the HEART [Father] and WORD [Son - which is His expressed image and REVELATION of His HEART] --- of our complete and perfect, YHVH GOD.

:Peace:  willieH  :cloud9:

Well, I see what your getting at, but it is also an example of what I am talking about.

Ec 1:13 I applied my heart to inquiring and exploring by wisdom concerning all that is done under the heavens: it is an experience of evil Elohim has given to the sons of humanity to humble them by it.



If your saying scripture says we do not experience evil but the knowledge of it is revealed, then I have to side with scripture.  It really doesn't matter how much people want to try to say Evil is just a perspective or an illusion, I have yet to see anyone actually live that premise in the face of even discomfort let alone full blown attacks of evil in ones life. Especially so when we are called to take action by resisting evil not finding ways to glorify in it.

When I find someone, or anyone else does, I'll be interested in seeing things differently perhaps.

[reFORMer]

It seem that even when all are resurrected, those who didn't have part in the 1st resurrection will yet be, at least for a while, somehow subject to some kind of inhibition, if not pain, as they are brought on into relationship with God and the holy ones.

"And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt." (Dan 12:2)  Here "contempt" (KJV) is from a root meaning repulse,something that may need to be yet done to control and train these.  "Shame" (fem.) here (which can mean pudenda) relates in the original to a condition due to a lack of grace.   This lack is applied in such examples as being of an enemy army, being barren, uncircumsied, or a widow; betroth, as if a surrender, etc.  "...to reproach for eonian repulsion" is how the Concordant Literal renders the phrase. 

Not being overcomers, not in sufficient likeness or similitude of God they are not quite free.  They can be externally herded.  They are yet disciplined by need and lack.  They are still subject.  This is understandable considering the massive powers of immortal beings in the image of God.

[willieH]

Well, I see what your getting at, but it is also an example of what I am talking about.

Ec 1:13 I applied my heart to inquiring and exploring by wisdom concerning all that is done under the heavens: it is an experience of evil Elohim has given to the sons of humanity to humble them by it.



If your saying scripture says we do not experience evil but the knowledge of it is revealed, then I have to side with scripture.

We certainly DO experience EVIL... but it is the WORK of GOD, Revealing His KNOWLEDGE (though we experience evil), that is the LARGER portion of what is actually going on in those experiences...

It really doesn't matter how much people want to try to say Evil is just a perspective or an illusion

,

Anyone who insists that EVIL is just a perspective or an illusion, hasn't been through life threatening, several hour, surgery!  :laughing7:  Nor has had a dibilitating long term disease, or lost a child, etc... :rolleye:

I have yet to see anyone actually live that premise in the face of even discomfort let alone full blown attacks of evil in ones life. Especially so when we are called to take action by resisting evil not finding ways to glorify in it.

Agreed.  We are, whether or not we enjoy it... are LIVING the FOREKNOWLEDGE of GOD which contains GOOD and EVIL... It is ONE KNOWLEDGE, and cannot be KNOWN unless BOTH are manifest within our experience...

The GLORY is found in GOD's rescue of us FROM this realm... and we shall BE that GLORY on display FOR EVER in the Heavens and in the Earth.

In my 64 years I can tell you that there have been so many moments in my life that have involved DISPAIR at the hands of the retributions of EVIL, I cannot even count them.

Years of life tell the tale... When I was 21, I...  probably like most 21 year olds, thought I knew everything, but comparatively speaking concerning the actual KNOWLEDGE only gained by EXPERIENCE, I had in truth, experienced literally NOTHING.  :blush:

In the EXPERIENCE of LIFE is knowledge OF IT, truly gained.  Observing knowledge in a textbook which tells you it is painful to be SHOT with a bullet (how obvious), is a far cry from actually getting SHOT and FEELING and EXPERIENCING that PAIN!  Yes the book indentifies a basic here & there, and can be somewhat informative... but the intangibles and DETAILS are only found within an experience of the information.

:Peace: ...willieH...  :cloud9:

[willieH]

willieH: Hi reFormer...  :icon_king:

It seem that even when all are resurrected, those who didn't have part in the 1st resurrection will yet be, at least for a while, somehow subject to some kind of inhibition, if not pain, as they are brought on into relationship with God and the holy ones.

I don't agree brother reFormer... GOD is no respecter of persons (impartial)...

If you did not RECIEVE PAIN or some "kind of inhibition" (whatever that might be), in your conversion from EVIL and another DOES... how has GOD remained IMPARTIAL to you both?  :dontknow:

If some have to experience PAIN in their conversion (because GOD did NOT "foreordain" them) and there are those who do not have to experience this PAIN (because GOD DID "foreordain" them), are not the latter grouping being favored by Him, displaying PARTIALITY?

I don't see it.  I do not see that PAIN concerning conversion is part of the "plan" for PEACE... and if it IS so... the how can it be said that CHRIST has "made PEACE" for ALL THINGS, and that ALL FULLNESS is dwelling IN HIM? -- Col 1:19-20

CHRIST took upon Himself, the PAIN and the DEATH that we ALL deserve for our lives and how they have been lived...  How shall He feel about MANY (most) of His SHEEP being run over the coals, when He has already endured this FOR THEM?  :mshock:

Isn't it "HIGH TIME" we began PREACHING that PEACE?  :dontknow:

As far as a relationship with "holy ones"... the only thing that makes anything HOLY is YHVH and His LOVE having been shed upon that one.

Again... a moment of SHAME (which is what these shall experience) might be as overestimated as "5 seconds" is in my example of time:

A 7 day vacation can go by in a WISK!  And 5 seconds with your hand on a stove burner trudges so slowly as to seem eternal... Try both and then tell us which of the 2 is the LONGER period of time.  :laughing7:

"And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt." (Dan 12:2)  Here "contempt" (KJV) is from a root meaning repulse,something that may need to be yet done to control and train these.  "Shame" (fem.) here (which can mean pudenda) relates in the original to a condition due to a lack of grace.   This lack is applied in such examples as being of an enemy army, being barren, uncircumsied, or a widow; betroth, as if a surrender, etc.  "...to reproach for eonian repulsion" is how the Concordant Literal renders the phrase. 

Not being overcomers, not in sufficient likeness or similitude of God they are not quite free.  They can be externally herded.  They are yet disciplined by need and lack.  They are still subject.  This is understandable considering the massive powers of immortal beings in the image of God

My question would be, "did anyone, OVERCOME, of themselves"?  And if not, then why should those insufficient in this category, be penalized when the "1st resurrectioners" were "helped over the fence", and these not?

Eph 2:9 -- for we are HIS WORKMANSHIP -- [designed by the designer] -- Created in CHRIST JESUS unto GOOD WORKS, which -- GOD hath FOREORDAINED that we should WALK in them

Those who "OVERCOME" have been FOREORDAINED (designed by a predetermined plan) to walk unto GOOD WORKS (overcoming)... Which said FOREORDAINATION was made by an IMPARTIAL God... Acts 10:34 -- 2 Sam 14:14 -- and 8 others

So why should GOD, give those NOT "foreordained", a "beatin" for not being FOREORDAINED by HIM? (chosen to be amongst the 1st resurrection)

I maintain that there is no PEACE found in such a concept... and that CHRIST has ALREADY established PEACE for ALL -- Col 1:20

...willieH  :cloud9:

[MacPherson]

We all have trouble with any verse because we bias what it says beyond what is actually written.

Revelation 22:15 all by itself does not mention they are outside forever, nor does it even say they are outside temporarily. 

I think that at this point being in heaven forever has been established, so the conclusion is that those who are outside, are also outside forever. That the eternal order of things has been established at this point.

I know the reasoning, but the reasoning is not sound,  even the idea of being in heaven forever, what verse says we are in heaven forever specifically and to that point when there will be a new heaven and earth?   

Rev 22:5 (In reference to the saints in the New Jerusalem)  And [there] they will reign for ever and ever....15 Outside are the dogs.

[Paul Hazelwood]

We all have trouble with any verse because we bias what it says beyond what is actually written.

Revelation 22:15 all by itself does not mention they are outside forever, nor does it even say they are outside temporarily. 

I think that at this point being in heaven forever has been established, so the conclusion is that those who are outside, are also outside forever. That the eternal order of things has been established at this point.

I know the reasoning, but the reasoning is not sound,  even the idea of being in heaven forever, what verse says we are in heaven forever specifically and to that point when there will be a new heaven and earth?   

Rev 22:5 (In reference to the saints in the New Jerusalem)  And [there] they will reign for ever and ever....15 Outside are the dogs.

Nothing in that verse about being in heaven.   The word "there" is a biased addition.

[Paul Hazelwood]

We certainly DO experience EVIL... but it is the WORK of GOD, Revealing His KNOWLEDGE (though we experience evil), that is the LARGER portion of what is actually going on in those experiences...

Well, scripture seems to indicate something a bit different than what your saying.  God works all things, but there a difference between God working something because it has no power over him and something that is a "work" of God.

This abomination here is not a work of God.

Jer 32:35 And they build the high places of Baal, that [are] in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through to Molech, which I did not command them, nor did it come up on my heart to do this abomination, so as to cause Judah to sin.

The GLORY is found in GOD's rescue of us FROM this realm... and we shall BE that GLORY on display FOR EVER in the Heavens and in the Earth.

We are not being rescued, we are being prepared.

Pr 5:21 For the ways of a man are before the eyes of Yahweh, Who ponders all his routes.







H6424  palac  paw-las'

a primitive root;

properly, to roll flat, i.e. prepare (a road); also to revolve, i.e. weigh
(mentally):--make, ponder, weigh.