Demons!

[micah7:9]

" I still struggle with the same sins nothing really has change except I know that they are sins. Is anyone here on the same boat?"

Yep; still struggle.
Difference being the desire to change is ever increasing; fortunately the key being that Christ covers everything.
Paul talks about his struggle in Romans 7; Then makes the statement of statements in chapter 8

There is NO condemnation to those in Christ Jesus.....

For me, the concept of taking up the  cross daily is the reminder of being paid for IN FULL by Christ. His faith has saved me- mine is being developed as He leads and corrects. The flesh is always there till the resurrection, so will always have these temporary setbacks.

:thumbsup:

[Molly]

There is a dimension that many people never see or understand--

The Full Armor of God

...11Put on the full armor of God, so that you will be able to stand firm against the schemes of the devil. 12For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places. 13Therefore, take up the full armor of God, so that you will be able to resist in the evil day, and having done everything, to stand firm....

--Eph 6


King James Version:

12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

"wrestle"

Strong's:
πάλη
another form for G906); wrestling
Derivation: from πάλλω to vibrate;

Thayer:

1) wrestling (a contest between two in which each endeavours to throw the other, and which is decided when the victor is able to hold his opponent down with his hand upon his neck)
1a) the term is transferred to the Christian's struggle with the power of evil


So --we are in a match with an opponent, and one of our weapons is to vibrate against them.

God creates the world through the spoken word, the vibration of his voice.  All speech is vibration.

And God said, "Let there be light..."

Creation through vibration.   Music also is vibration and we are given a new song to sing when we are indwelt by the Holy Spirit.  This experience was not open to most in the OT.  Some had it, like King David, but most did not.   Moses would go away for a few weeks and they would forget everything they had just witnessed with their own eyes--pillar of cloud, pillar of fire, seas parted, miraculous salvation--all gone as though it never happened.  They are unable to hang onto the high vibration of the miracles and sink back into the slow, sluggish, low vibration slavery of sin.

We are not yet like Christ--the one on whom the Spirit alights and does not depart.  Paul tells us we must wash daily with the word.

5:26  So that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the Word,

Commentary:

Ephesians 5:26 tells us that we are cleansed "with the washing of water by the word." There are things that will be cleansed—things in our minds, things that deal with conduct, things that have to do with character and attitude—that are cleansed by water. The word "water" here is symbolic, referring to the Word of God, as well as to the Holy Spirit.


Does this imply that we are now perfect and never sinning, never attacked by principalities, powers, the rulers of the darkness of this world, spiritual wickedness in high places?

No.

It implies we are daily overcoming through the washing of the word and the wearing of the armor of God, so that we can vibrate a new song, which so doing together will change the world!  Through Christ we are more than conquerors...



1Sing to the LORD a new song; Sing to the LORD, all the earth. 2Sing to the LORD, bless His name; Proclaim good tidings of His salvation from day to day.

--Psalm 96


Living Sacrifices

1Therefore I urge you, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies a living and holy sacrifice, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service of worship. 2And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect...

--Romans 12



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtzCD_8KbjI

[marie glen]

All these posts, and I still have no idea what these creatures are.  I even decided that alien greys are demons, but where did they come from, and how did they come to be?  I'm just glad the Lord Jesus is on our side!

I know not all believers agree, but I believe they are (the) fallen angels (who "left their first place" and are now "in chains of deepest darkness" locked into judgment - locked into judgment, imo, because having left their 1st place/estate of perfection and now being imperfect, they cannot in any way reverse their course making their selves again perfect - what with being not only imperfect, but downright rebellious and workers of evil! :doh:

Revelation 12, which I believe is an insert and a whole history on its own - history of the faith. In it is Herod the Great, altho indirectly, as he was used by the dragon to try to devour the Son of man when born, but instead of the dragon destroying Him He is lift up to the right hand of God.. at which time, war in heaven/half the battle was won and satan&co were no longer allowed access to the heavens.. the dragon was angry at this and persecuted (inquisitioned) the faith but it was given the two wings of an eagle for a 2nd (major) migration of the faith to a new place-(for context)

Jesus said I saw Satan like lightning fall from heaven.. this was the fall, imo, not the battle with Michael and his angels in rev 12, when the dragon&co were cast out of heaven (as to be thrown i would think is different than falling)

At the end of Revelation chapter one it says "the stars are angels"

The dragon dragged 1/3 of the stars with his tail... metaphor for? imo, dragged 1/3 with him in his rebellion, his falling away from God and into imperfection (of character!)

Today, while Jesus is not in advent, just like in the Old Testament, people did not outright observe or see the fallen angels (dark entities I sometimes think of them.. grey men/shadows I believe are of these fallen messengers/angels.. untrue messengers..)

"the god of this world" .."principaltities and powers" ..we wrestle not against flesh and blood but against principalities/ruling forces/prevalent spirit(s) ...darkness

"God is light and in Him is no darkness at all"

I believe every negative thought or impulse, we can rebuke it in the name of Jesus. "According to your faith so be it.."

"Lake of fire prepared for the devil and his angels"

I have heard a lot of Christians say they don't struggle with certain sins but I have never experience that. I still struggle with the same sins nothing really has change except I know that they are sins. Is anyone here on the same boat?

I'm thinking they are likely minor, as opposed to major sins or flaws-like murder, fraud, oppression..

The reason the wage (result, consequences) of 'little' sins is the same as for the big ones, is because (imo) God is perfection (and also life) so imperfection is the opposite of God/life/perfection.. so the wage is still imperfection/death/nonlife. Simplicity, but man has many inventions..

And I think we all struggle with flaws.. And remember the churches lump some things under the column of "sins" which the bible makes no mention of.. "God made wine/hebrew "fermented" to make merry the heart of man" but! "woe to those who follow after strong drink/drunkeness for in the end it bites like a serpent"

Just saying, as an example, the churches may forbid any wine at all, but the Word simply tells us the truth.. Albeit not all things are useful.. Not trying to encourage wine.. just making an example of how the churches have added on a bit..

But if we are living a life of habitual sinning, without training the mind to be subject to God's Spirit and Word, via the washing of the Word/truth, then the truth is not in us.. I.E. a preacher who seduces women or a priest who is a pedophile is not (imo) a true believer!

I'm going to say something totally shocking here.. I don't believe we are supposed to go around flogging ourselves mentally and spiritually.. If I should cuss, I breathe a prayer of sorry to the Lord.. and then I forget about it.. Some things indeed can be more of a struggle.. smoking cigs.. being overweight.. whatever.. are still what I would think of as not major sins (which major I believe usually do more harm especially unto others)

I think we all struggle with being imperfect.. (otherwise, i guess we'd be perfect, which for now, would surely lead to imperfect! for pride would be sure to raise its ugly head)

I don't know about others, but my flaws sure do work to make me humble. I think the truest measuring rod we can use to measure ourselves by.. is love. Do we love? For God is love. "Draw near to God.." One rule, love God. "Be being filled with the Spirit" of God.. God is love. The answer to all things is more of Jesus...

There is a dimension that many people never see or understand--

The Full Armor of God

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: Very  :goodpost: Molly! "...implies we are daily overcoming through the washing of the word and the wearing of the armor of God" Amen!

..except for one minor difference - "so that we can vibrate a new song, which so doing together will change the world" - I am more of the more pessimistic opinion man's world will vibrate into utter collapse.. and redemption of it is only by Jesus' coming on the clouds and initiating His long second advent, then the elect will reign (make right/serve) with Jesus during the 1000 years millennium.. :smile: But the shaking may bring a huge harvest..?

[rosered]

" I still struggle with the same sins nothing really has change except I know that they are sins. Is anyone here on the same boat?"

Yep; still struggle.
Difference being the desire to change is ever increasing; fortunately the key being that Christ covers everything.
Paul talks about his struggle in Romans 7; Then makes the statement of statements in chapter 8

There is NO condemnation to those in Christ Jesus.....

For me, the concept of taking up the  cross daily is the reminder of being paid for IN FULL by Christ. His faith has saved me- mine is being developed as He leads and corrects. The flesh is always there till the resurrection, so will always have these temporary setbacks.

:thumbsup:

  My biggest flaw now is NOT judging   anything before the time   GOD openly exposes it   for what it is .

   Being patient and waiting on the Lord  working in you too  give cause  and not letting the tongue  , that fiery  little member  be tamed of the Lord  , jumping the gun so to speak  :sigh:

   Paul died daily as to  getting a hold on them offensive things of the carnal mind  that is an enmity to the Holy Spirit  of grace   in those whom he dealt with and the very warring within himself ..

1 Cor  15 30Why are we also in danger every hour? 31I affirm, brethren,

by the boasting in you which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily. 32If from human motives I fought with wild beasts at Ephesus, what does it profit me? If the dead are not raised, LET US EAT AND DRINK, FOR TOMORROW WE DIE....

I am convinced the Christ in you rises up in victory   over all the enemies  , that daily battle from the moment you committed to serving the LORD and confessed Him as your Savior !!!   Greater is He that is in YOU that in the world    !!   :HeartThrob:

[Aerex]

But if we are living a life of habitual sinning, without training the mind to be subject to God's Spirit and Word, via the washing of the Word/truth, then the truth is not in us.. I.E. a preacher who seduces women or a priest who is a pedophile is not (imo) a true believer!

I don't think it is just to say that a person who is a pedophile or a seducer is not a believer. It almost feels like God expects us to be almost perfect before he accepts. Its like trying to be fit, someone can spend hours, months or years trying to get fit but fail horribly. You tell yourself you can do it but you keep failing. You do have a training coach but he is long distance and can't really help you when you are at your weakest. Eventually you get frustrated and just quit. Does this mean that you were never trying to be fit?

In this case does this mean I am not a believer if I habitually sin or I give up on the race?

[Lazarus Short]

I have heard a lot of Christians say they don't struggle with certain sins but I have never experience that. I still struggle with the same sins nothing really has change except I know that they are sins. Is anyone here on the same boat?

Yes, but keep in mind that God can and will resolve such things in His own good time.  It is a teaching tool.

[rosered]

  Most certainly , :thumbsup:
   You can be judging yourself  before the time  ,  none  can see the forest for the trees   ,  when dealing with personal sin    , that tree and those in the way  of seeing the Big picture , the Forest     ...   GOD  not only sees the big picture , He made   it and all in it  ,   something out of nothing  but His Word     spoken .

Like the race , dont sweat the small stuff , many have   gave  up  just from stubbing a toe  , that is no reason to quit ..

   Take time to tend to it  and get   back in that RACE !!  :banana: :banana:  Today is a new day   Lord fresh and clean ...

[sheila]

   just remember...we are all sinners saved by grace.  Those poor in spirit[ye have no life in yourselves] He made rich in faith.

    the token of the spirit He gives us..is sown in corruption. Love is the perfect[ion] bond of union.


     the faith,hope and love remains....and is raised up in incorruption.  The faith in Him to finish this good work He has begun in us,

   and all His creation....the hope in us of His raising us up in incorruption...and the Love that will perfect these three strands in a

  perfect bond of union with Him.   And He shall draw all men unto Himself with this rope of loving-kindness.


     Remember the PROMISE....and  His WORD..and His spirit that does not return unto Him void...but fulfills His purpose.

    take heart...the battle is the Lord's...and He has overcome....the victory is assured.


   keep putting up with one another in love/now does that sound like your'e dealing with a  perfect sinless people?

   no.......but the perfection is of the spirit, the bond of love that keeps putting up with one another


    God's love is testified to..by His sending his son..to die for us while we were yet His enemies..our love is testified to that we

   will listen and keep in our hearts His sons word to us..from the Father.

[sheila]

'you may be judging yourself before the time"  awesome thought Rose.  are we judging ourselves before His finished work in us.....

  before we are raised up in incorruption,maybe?  Satan's works are already judged in us/the prince of this world is judged.......

   that His works are wicked. Could we in reality be judging God's work? before He has finished it?


   if our own hearts condemn us...He is greater than our hearts.......

[guest5685]

But if we are living a life of habitual sinning, without training the mind to be subject to God's Spirit and Word, via the washing of the Word/truth, then the truth is not in us.. I.E. a preacher who seduces women or a priest who is a pedophile is not (imo) a true believer!

I don't think it is just to say that a person who is a pedophile or a seducer is not a believer. It almost feels like God expects us to be almost perfect before he accepts. Its like trying to be fit, someone can spend hours, months or years trying to get fit but fail horribly. You tell yourself you can do it but you keep failing. You do have a training coach but he is long distance and can't really help you when you are at your weakest. Eventually you get frustrated and just quit. Does this mean that you were never trying to be fit?

In this case does this mean I am not a believer if I habitually sin or I give up on the race?

Here's my take on your question. Once coming to a real awakening or salvation experience I went through years of struggling trying to "Be Perfect". Sometimes it seemed I was doing fine and began getting that "Self-Righteous Holier Than Thou Attitude" against others. Then I'd fall miserable because of one reason or the other. I had problems and thought God was unfair. Without admitting it I was really mad at God so there were times I just continued to give in to the works of the flesh and didn't care if God cared about it. I justified my actions because I thought God unfair. Then eventually I'd get so miserable and feel so dead inside I'd be calling out to God in desperation to pick me up again. Sometimes it seemed He waited to do this until I just wished I was dead but really wanted to live. Then suddenly His Spirit would come to my rescue. I could sense his presence and his love and it felt just like a first love again. I hate to admit it but this happened at least 3 different times and some of those times lasted quite a while. Never once when he lifted me (my soul) up did he ever recall or upbraid me for my failure or outright rebellion. All I ever felt at those times was his extreme pleasure in me as his child. I was quite ashamed of my bad behaviour but it was like the Prodigal Son story. I wanted to rehearse my failures and He just loved on me. Each time that happened I began to be More Merciful and Less Judgemental of others who were not perfect. I began to understand His Great Grace and it was awesome. Those experiences humbled me kind of like old Nebuchadnezzar. I believe from my experience that once you have a salvation experience and know the love of God you might fall-you might quit-you might give up--BUT HE WON'T. You will be like the children of Israel and in time you will get so miserable if you are on purpose rebelling you will cry out until He comes and rescues your soul again. You will appreciate his Love more and his Grace more. You will be less judgemental and more forgiving realizing He Never Fails Us. :thumbsup: :2c: :thumbsup:

[sheila]

Dan 11;35   and some of them of understanding shall fall....TO TRY THEM...AND TO PURGE....AND TO MAKE THEM WHITE.....

[guest5685]

Yup! :thumbsup: :iagree: :thumbsup:

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Great posts, everyone. @ Molly......GREAT to see you back with us.  :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

This is something He gave me to simplify things and change my attitude years ago. When your toddler was outside playing in the mud, and came in looking like a chocolate bar, chances are you didn't beat them up, yell at them over and over again about the same thing, and you probably had a good laugh about it after their 2nd or 3rd bath.  :mock:

God looks at His children the same way. He's a lot more patient with us, than we are with each other, especially ourselves. Wash yourself off, tomorrow's another day. Blessings....

[guest5685]

 :thumbsup: :iagree: :thumbsup:

[rosered]

:cloud9: Great posts, everyone. @ Molly......GREAT to see you back with us.  :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

This is something He gave me to simplify things and change my attitude years ago. When your toddler was outside playing in the mud, and came in looking like a chocolate bar, chances are you didn't beat them up, yell at them over and over again about the same thing, and you probably had a good laugh about it after their 2nd or 3rd bath.  :mock:

God looks at His children the same way. He's a lot more patient with us, than we are with each other, especially ourselves. Wash yourself off, tomorrow's another day. Blessings....

  So Right Cardinal ,
  I remember thinking   years ago ,so many children what is a mother to do!!   I cleaned you up all fresh and white and   wait till I get these others ready to go too , and    leave my sight for a moment and your in the  mud hole playing again !! and got all dirty   again , well we will clean you up best we can , but you better not do this again lol    or I will blister your bottom next time   around     ha !      :dsunny:

[GodIsLove]

:cloud9: Great posts, everyone. @ Molly......GREAT to see you back with us.  :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

This is something He gave me to simplify things and change my attitude years ago. When your toddler was outside playing in the mud, and came in looking like a chocolate bar, chances are you didn't beat them up, yell at them over and over again about the same thing, and you probably had a good laugh about it after their 2nd or 3rd bath.  :mock:

God looks at His children the same way. He's a lot more patient with us, than we are with each other, especially ourselves. Wash yourself off, tomorrow's another day. Blessings....

I love this. I often notice situations with my own kids and then will get a lightbulb moment that this is how God is with us, his children.

Sometimes my son (who is 3) will be having big tears over a limit I have set (like, no you can't have chocolate right now), or something of his own doing (like he threw his toy and broke it) and I will look at the anguish in his little face over this silly little thing, and reach my arms out to him...he will still be mad and will run away...and I will just wait...eventually he will come over and melt in my arms. My arms were outstretched but he couldn't feel my love, he was so upset about the silly little thing (silly in my eyes not his).

[strainerofcamels]

Hi Lazarus, I don't think I'm getting off topic when I write the below because as I read all the good posts, I still get the feeling you're looking for an answer that hasn't yet been given. Maybe I'm wrong but I'll just share my 2c anyway and maybe it will help. I haven't logged on in a week or so because I've been busy and I felt led to check in real quick and saw this post, so maybe something to it idk.

I've looked into what the Bible teaches about demons over the years, and in fact felt led to do so, and came to some rather unconventional conclusions. I'll be as brief as possible.

It appears, scripturally speaking, that demons and fallen angels are two different things. Summary would be to say that fallen angels, spiritual beings which do not change (i.e. created beautiful and perfect retain beauty and perfection but are darkened); whereas demons, grotesque, ugly creatures appear to be some sort of hybrid creation, possibly the spiritual/soulish offspring of whatever took place at the beginning of Genesis 6. After these giants died, their souls and/or spirits left to wander the earth. I do not suggest that the Bible clearly teaches this, I am simply sharing my understanding after looking into it somewhat extensively, as led by the Spirit. I wouldn't even mess with the topic if the Lord didn't lead me to look into it for whatever reason.

And not to get too far into it, but the grey "aliens" I understand to be some form of engineered body for these particular wandering spirits. We know from the story of the Gadarenes that they seek flesh to inhabit, and they keep getting kicked out of their human hosts since the victory of the cross... 

If this is totally unrelated to your question I apologize, but I think I'm on the same page with it. In any case, the Spirit of God can satisfy the questions you have as you keep searching. He gives wisdom without reproach. God bless :)

Cory in Kzoo

Added: Rev 12 is not clear as to past or future imo, but does appear to be more future from John than a past pre-time event. 

[idontknow]

I have been though demonic experience and mine had a UFO aspect to it which i found really bizarre. When i was looking for answers i found a channel on youtube by the name of Godrules. He seems to believe UR so i started watching his videos looking for answers to what i went though. I found one video interesting he thinks that "demons" (kind i experienced) are the disembodied evil spirits from the nephilim that were killed in the flood. A lot of his theories seems to match with what i had experienced so i think he might be on the right track.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-Uvb5OrBWc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZJkN7vZWl4

[eaglesway]

 6 And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their proper dwelling—these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day.

[Cardinal]

I have been though demonic experience and mine had a UFO aspect to it which i found really bizarre. When i was looking for answers i found a channel on youtube by the name of Godrules. He seems to believe UR so i started watching his videos looking for answers to what i went though. I found one video interesting he thinks that "demons" (kind i experienced) are the disembodied evil spirits from the nephilim that were killed in the flood. A lot of his theories seems to match with what i had experienced so i think he might be on the right track.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-Uvb5OrBWc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZJkN7vZWl4

:cloud9: I'll throw another wrench into the mix. My friend who I witnessed get almost possessed, asked God about 4 months later where that demon had come from. She suspected it was the demon that had got her nephew a few months before her (long creepy story). God told her and I quote, "You created it out of the hate and murder in your own heart."

I have no explanation for just "how" that works exactly, but I know for a fact she hears Him, and that's what He told her. Gives new meaning to the scripture about eating of the fruit of your own lips,  :eek:  (they possess you by going down your throat).

I also believe that the so called "aliens" are the nephalim, reserved in chains of darkness until the end, and have been loosed, because it's their time to be. My  :2c: Blessings...

[Ross]

  Likewise, Sodom and Gomorrah and the neighbouring towns, which indulged in sexual immorality in the same way as the angels pursued unnatural desire, are exhibited as an example by undergoing punishment of age of fire.
Yet in the same way, these people also relying on their dreams defile the flesh, reject authority, and blaspheme the glorious ones.
But when Michael, the archangel, in debate with the devil, was arguing about the body of Moses, he did not presume to condemn him for blasphemy, but said, ' the Lord rebuke you'.

Behold the Lord comes with 10,000's of his holy ones to execute judgment on all, and to convict all the ungodly of all their ungodly acts, that they have committed in their ungodliness, and of all the harsh things that ungodly men have spoken against Him."
These people are grumblers, malcontents, who follow their sinful desires, their speech is arrogant, they flatter others to gain advantage.

But you dear friends, must remember the predictions foretold by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ, how they said to you,
' In the final age there will be scoffers driven by their own ungodly desires. These are the ones causing division, worldly minded and devoid of the Spirit.'
But you, dear friends, build yourself up in the most holy faith and pray in the Holy Spirit. Keep yourself in the love of God as you wait the mercy of the Lord Jesus Christ to grant you age of life.

[marie glen]

This makes for an interesting study! :smile:

The word translated demon is the same as the one translated devil, G1140-daimonion  (demonaic G1139)

In the Old Testament - 8163 "shaggy from 8165 - he-goat" and 7700 - "shade, from 7736 - to swell up (insolence, devastate)"

the old testament verses from Young's Literal Version
Lev 17:7 -  "and they sacrifice not any more their sacrifices to goats after which they are going a-whoring; a statute age-during is this to them, to their generations."

Deut 32:17 - "They sacrifice to demons -- no god! Gods they have not known -- New ones -- from the vicinity they came; Not feared them have your fathers!" ('gods' of the nations)

2 Cronicles 11:15 - "and he (King Jeroboam) establisheth to him priests for high places, and for goats, and for calves, that he made.."

Psalm 106:37 - "And they sacrifice their sons And their daughters to destroyers,"

In the New Testament -

"cast out demons" "under the power of demons" "driven out demons"

Matthew 8:16 - "When evening came, they brought to Him many who were under the power of demons, and He drove out the spirits with a word and restored to health all who were sick."

Mark 1:34 - "He did not allow the demons to speak, because they knew Him."

Matthew 9:34 -But the Pharisees said, "It is by the prince of demons that he drives out demons."

------
From ISA3 interlinear version (program) and the CLV version,

Jude 5-8 - "Now I am intending to remind you, you who once are aware of all, that he Lord, when saving the people out of the land of Egypt, secondly destroys those who believe not.
Messengers besides the no ones-keeping the of-themselves original but from-lacking the own home-place into judging of-great day to-bonds leaving the own habitation into judging of-great day to-bonds un-perceived under gloom He-has-kept. And as Sodom and Gomorrah.. likewise these dreamers (in the church, are).. waterless clouds carried aside by winds.."

dragon and serpent roots have to do with looking.. unlike voluntary (enchanting?)..

[strainerofcamels]

You guys are awesome :) what a great place to seek the Lord and His truth together.

Cardinal, I believe what you shared about "created with your own lips..." is indeed from the Lord. I don't understand it yet but that is the direction I have been contemplating for some time as to unclean spirit origins. I think it must be a mistake to lump everything in the kingdom of darkness under the term fallen angel, as that just leaves us open to ignorance and deception. I appreciate your sharing that I find it very helpful as a testimony that the Lord can and will fill in the gaps in our understanding that He wants to fill.

And thanks marie for the good word study and everyone else who contributes. I know it's not my thread lol but I just wanted to express thanks :)

[sheila]

 the judas goat...do a google search...they lead flocks of sheep to slaughter.........

[Lazarus Short]

Hi Lazarus, I don't think I'm getting off topic when I write the below because as I read all the good posts, I still get the feeling you're looking for an answer that hasn't yet been given. Maybe I'm wrong but I'll just share my 2c anyway and maybe it will help. I haven't logged on in a week or so because I've been busy and I felt led to check in real quick and saw this post, so maybe something to it idk.

I've looked into what the Bible teaches about demons over the years, and in fact felt led to do so, and came to some rather unconventional conclusions. I'll be as brief as possible.

It appears, scripturally speaking, that demons and fallen angels are two different things. Summary would be to say that fallen angels, spiritual beings which do not change (i.e. created beautiful and perfect retain beauty and perfection but are darkened); whereas demons, grotesque, ugly creatures appear to be some sort of hybrid creation, possibly the spiritual/soulish offspring of whatever took place at the beginning of Genesis 6. After these giants died, their souls and/or spirits left to wander the earth. I do not suggest that the Bible clearly teaches this, I am simply sharing my understanding after looking into it somewhat extensively, as led by the Spirit. I wouldn't even mess with the topic if the Lord didn't lead me to look into it for whatever reason.

And not to get too far into it, but the grey "aliens" I understand to be some form of engineered body for these particular wandering spirits. We know from the story of the Gadarenes that they seek flesh to inhabit, and they keep getting kicked out of their human hosts since the victory of the cross... 

If this is totally unrelated to your question I apologize, but I think I'm on the same page with it. In any case, the Spirit of God can satisfy the questions you have as you keep searching. He gives wisdom without reproach. God bless :)

Cory in Kzoo

Added: Rev 12 is not clear as to past or future imo, but does appear to be more future from John than a past pre-time event.

Thanks, that is food for thought, and begins to answer my question somewhat.  It may be that we already have the information we need from God on this subject.