What about problem of evil?

[Molly]

That's two times he's called God in one sentence.

:thumbsup:

(Three times for us 'trinitarians':  Counsellor (Holy Spirit), the Mighty God (El Gibbor), and the everlasting Father.)

[willieH]

willieH: Hi Mac... :hithere:

Nice to see you, "jumping right in!"  :thumbsup:

Just for fun... "SUBJECTOR" is in fact, ...a WORD...

Not meaning to chime in but, there's no such word as "Subjector".

Of course there IS bro!  Tony just used it!  That it does not currently appear in the dictionary does NOT mean it is NOT a "word"...  There are many words which have come to BE found defined in the Dictionary of the English language, after ENOUGH usage of them necessitates them to be defined...  Because they are not DICTIONARY defined, does not mean they are not WORDS...

A DICTIONARY, is but a History of specific letter groupings, in a given language, which gives definitions of those letter groupings,  ...NOT a "written in stone"  EVERLASTING notation of what IS or IS NOT a "word", or CAN or CANNOT BE considered a "word"!   :laughing7:

Example:  "AIN'T"... this word CURRENTLY appears in the DICTIONARY of the English language, but upon its first appearance of lingual usages in English, was NOT a member of that collection, nor "defined" by it.  :dontknow:

How about "HOOD"... which by "STREET" definition is COMMONLY USED as a WORD understood and meaning "NEIGHBORHOOD", ...but is currently, NOT found DEFINED as such in the DICTIONARY?  :dontknow:


MERRIAM-WEBSTER online dictionary:

hood
10 entries found.


1hood (noun)

2hood (noun)

3hood (noun)

-hood

Hood

Hood

Hood

Robin Hood

Hood, Mount

Hood Canal

Main Entry: 1hood 
Pronunciation: \ˈhu̇d\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English hōd; akin to Old High German huot head covering, huota guard
Date: before 12th century
1 a (1): a flexible covering for the head and neck (2): a protective covering for the head and face b: a covering for a hawk's head and eyes c: a covering for a horse's head ; also : blinder
2 a: an ornamental scarf worn over an academic gown that indicates by its color the wearer's college or university b: a color marking or crest on the head of an animal or an expansion of the head that suggests a hood
3 a: something resembling a hood in form or use b: a cover for parts of mechanisms ; specifically : the movable metal covering over the engine of an automobile cchiefly British : a top cover over the passenger section of a vehicle usually designed to be folded back d: an enclosure or canopy provided with a draft for carrying off fumes, sprays, smokes, or dusts e: a covering for an opening (as a companion hatch) on a boat
— hood transitive verb
— hood·like  \-ˌlīk\ adjective

As we move in time, ...current definitions within the Dictionary are evolving to gain additional meanings as well...

GAY, for instance!   It once by Dictionary definition only meant "HAPPY" or "MERRY"... but today also means "homosexual" and, in street lingo... "lame"...  :laughing7:

WORDS are WORDS, if someone uses them (subjector)... or gain new perspectives, as people apply them in a new usage (gay)...  :cloud9:

Not trying to stir you up new brother...  :mblush: just noting that such indications as noting ..."subjector" as not a WORD, is a "straw man" proposal which distracts from the point you, in following its notation, endeavor to make...  :declare:

I'll answer the rest your post, in my next post...  :wink1:

(http://dl3.glitter-graphics.net/pub/117/117193tdajxe3wh8.gif)


PeacE...
...willieH   :ty:

[willieH]

That's two times he's called God in one sentence.

:thumbsup:

(Three times for us 'trinitarians':  Counsellor (Holy Spirit), the Mighty God (El Gibbor), and the everlasting Father.)

And for "quatritarians" (Prince of Peace)  :laughing7:

And for "quintritarains" (Wonderful)  :laughing7:

Jus kidn' ya sister M...  :cloud9:

If the notations given in Isaiah 9:6, were indicating the number of "persons", then there are FIVE, not THREE!  :dontknow:

However, a number of "persons" is not what is therein being stated... these notations are of ONE BEING which is continually noted by Isaiah in his writings as YHVH -- ALONE, and IS all these things:  (Is 44:8 / 43:11 / 45:5, 14, 15, 18, 22) ...which is the Father and Son as well as being Counsellor, Wonderful and Prince of Peace...

YHVH is ALL in ALL... the ALL that He is "IN", is found to be Himself... spin that around your crib a taste!

Order is defined in LIFE, by a FATHER being first, and from Him, emerges sons... Name one species that changes this order...  :dontknow:

YHVH began the human race from ONE FATHER -- Adam, from which ALL subsequent "SONS" came forth...

A SON is ALWAYS preceeded by his FATHER.... a FATHER is NEVER preceeded by HIS SON...  :dontknow:

It is soooooooo simple, yet most don't get it...  :sigh:

His FATHER was YHVH, ...no one "sired" YHVH, however ALL have come forth from...

HIM--->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> son, son, son, son, son, son...
(http://dl3.glitter-graphics.net/pub/117/117193tdajxe3wh8.gif)


PeacE...
...willieH   :ty:

[Tony N]

Hi Molly,
If Jesus is God, then Who sent Him into the world to save sinners?

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with, God [YHVH] and the Word was God [YHVH].
John 1:1

Sorry Brian but that does not answer my question.
Joh 3:17 For God does not dispatch His Son into the world that He should be judging the world, but that the world may be saved through Him."

God dispatched His Son into the world so that the world would be saved through him.
John 3:17 does not say that "God sent Himself into the world."

While Jesus was on the earth He heard God's voice above coming from heaven saying "This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased." If Jesus is God, was He the greatest ventriloquist ever?

While Jesus was on earth he taught His disciples to pray: "Our Father which art in Heaven." He did not teach them to pray "Your Father which is right in front of you."

Well, I'd say you're not taking into consideration the role of the Son of Man.

Now tell me how John can say He was God.

How can Thomas can call Him "my Lord and my God."

How Paul can call Him "our great God and Savior"

Without bearing false witness and committing blasphemy?

How Tony, how?

Hi Brian,
This is simple really. Thomas was saying "My Lord and my subjector/placer."
Paul said "to us there is one God, the Father." So in what way are we to take "our great God and Saviour"? Jesus can carry the title God. Jesus is our great subjector and Lord.

Surely you would not want the Scriptures to contradict Scriptures would you?

Since Jesus said he was ascending to the disciple's God, he was surely saying that, in the absolute sense, "I am not your God. I am ascending to where your God is, in heaven. Not only that but I am ascending to your Father. I am not your Father. Your Father is in heaven, hallowed be His name!

God told Moses that he, Moses, is God to pharaoh and Aaron was his prophet. Was God raising up a false God to pharaoh?
So in the sense that God made Moses "God" or "Subjector" so did God make Jesus God or "Subjector" of the whole human race.

Not meaning to chime in but, there's no such word as "Subjector".
God told Moses that, He God, would make Moses like God to Pharaoh.
Isaiah, John, Thomas and Paul are not God. God can say "I will make you like God" without committing blasphemy because He's God.
Isaih, John, Thomas and Paul are not God. Show one place where anyone besides God refers to Moses as God in any way. And Isaiah, John, Thomas and Paul don't say like God.

How do you want to reword,
"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace." Is.9:6

That's two times he's called God in one sentence.

Are you a "Jehovah's Witness" by any chance? :dontknow:

Peace.

Nope, never been a Jehovah's Witness.
Literally in the Hebrew it is "to Pharaoh God I give you see! Moses" It stands on its own.

Isaiah, John, Thomas and Paul are not God.

I never said nor intimated they were.

The basic idea behind "Theos" is "Placer." If you place a person somewhere you theos (or a derivative of theos) them somewhere.
The Hebrew "Elohim" would be "Theos" in Greek and can be Placer or Subjector.

How do you want to reword,
"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace." Is.9:6

"For a Boy, He is born to us,
A Son, He is given to us,
And the chieftainship shall come to be on His shoulder,
And one chall call His name Marvelous;
Counsel to the master shall he bring,
Unto the chief, well-being" (Concordant Version Isaiah 9:6)

So God is still here on the earth and in heaven (He fills both). If evil hath overtaken a city, did God not do it?

[Molly]

Isa 9:6  For3588 unto us a child3206 is born,3205 unto us a son1121 is given:5414 and the government4951 shall be upon5921 his shoulder:7926 and his name8034 shall be1961 called7121 Wonderful,6382 Counselor,3289 The mighty1368 God,410 The everlasting5703 Father,1 The Prince8269 of Peace.7965


"Father"

H1
אב
'âb
awb
A primitive word; father in a literal and immediate, or figurative and remote application: - chief, (fore-) father ([-less]), X patrimony, principal. Compare names in "Abi-"



H1.  You can't get more Alpha than that.


Galatians 4:6
And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

[MacPherson]

Nope, never been a Jehovah's Witness.

Is there any particular sect or denomination you learned this from?

Literally in the Hebrew it is "to Pharaoh God I give you see! Moses" It stands on its own.

Nonetheless it was God Himself who conferred it and not through anyone else.
And the above is still worded differently than what the prophet and apostles said to and about Jesus.

Isaiah, John, Thomas and Paul are not God.

I never said nor intimated they were.

I was making a point that the only reference you have so far for "Placer or Subjector" is God talking directly to Moses.

The basic idea behind "Theos" is "Placer." If you place a person somewhere you theos (or a derivative of theos) them somewhere.
The Hebrew "Elohim" would be "Theos" in Greek and can be Placer or Subjector.

Where can I find this from someone who's considered a respected authority?

How do you want to reword,
"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace." Is.9:6

"For a Boy, He is born to us,
A Son, He is given to us,
And the chieftainship shall come to be on His shoulder,
And one chall call His name Marvelous;
Counsel to the master shall he bring,
Unto the chief, well-being" (Concordant Version Isaiah 9:6)

What does it say in the original Hebrew?