John indicates not all are written in the book of life?

[Peacetroll]

Revelation 13:7-9
And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

If any man have an ear, let him hear.

Revelation 20:14-15
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire

[pickr]

Hi Peacetroll,

Just a couple of comments.

Revelation 13:7-9
And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

If any man have an ear, let him hear.

But that isn't the end of the story, Peacetroll. John tells us that there's a victory yet to be won! :-)

Rev 15:2-3  And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.

And do you want to know the extent of the victory? John tells us that, too, in the very next verse!

Rev 15:4 Who shall not fear thee, O Lord, and glorify thy name? for thou only art holy: for all nations shall come and worship before thee; for thy judgments are made manifest.

Did you catch that?! It ties in with that wonderful prophecy of Isaiah, that every knee will bow and every tongue confess.

Revelation 20:14-15
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire

But that isn't the end of the story either. The lake of fire is far from being the end.

You can read about at the end of John's vision when he talks about the new Jerusalem, where the gates are always open. And the leaves of the tree of life are for healing. Didn't you ever ask yourself who it could be that yet requires healing at this point in the story? What possible need could there be for any remaining ministry?

I think the answer measures up magnificently with the glorious purpose of God in Christ Jesus, the ministry of reconciliation that Paul so wonderfully outlines to the Corinthians. (Pay close attention to the pronouns "us" and "them." It's the key to understanding what Paul is saying.)

2Cr 5:18-20  And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

Do you see it, Peacetroll? The ministry of reconciliation is what we are all about as Christians. And it won't stop when Christ returns to rule and reign with His saints. The leaves of the tree of life are for healing!

I'll leave you with one more bit of scripture, again from Paul's words to the Corinthians. I don't think you can understand John's visions without bearing in mind these words from Paul.

1Cor 15:19-28 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.

But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

You see? It''s the sheer majesty of it all that just blows me away. It's the evidence that God really does know what he's doing! Nothing has been left to chance. Jesus really is the savior of the world. His elect really are ministers of reconciliation, ambassadors for their Lord. And one day, armed with the leaves of the tree of life, they will fulfill Jesus' prophecy that they will perform even greater miracles than Jesus did.

Peace and blessings and much love in Christ,

Andy

[Peacetroll]

Ahh.

The complexity of scripture and yet the simplicity.

For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

Notice its IN Christ.  Those IN Christ shall be 'made alive'.

IN Christ you are alive.  IF you are not IN Christ you are not alive.

You see all IN CHRIST certainly shall be made alive.  All those OUTSIDE OF CHRIST are dead and not alive!  ALL IN HIM ARE 100% MADE ALIVE!  I wish I could explain it better.

Check this out----------

John 6:53
Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

1 John 5:12
He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.


As for Paul, he spoke many things hard to be understood.

All nations shall bow to him, but not of their own will.  Therefore it can be stated that all nations shall bow (during the millinium), but only because he forces them too with an IRON ROD!!!

Just because you bow to him (because you have too), does not mean you love him.  I bow to the rules of the government, but I certainly don't love the government. 

These who hate Christ shall also bow, but they do this only because he FORCES PEACE AND JUSTICE AGAINST THEIR WILL!!

1 John 3:15
Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

Revelation 2:
26And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

27And he(Jesus) shall rule them (the nations) with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

Christ Overcame.  Period.  And we are victors only because of Christ in us. 

Revelation 12:5
And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

That man child is Christ.  The Iron rod means BY FORCE.  Why force?  Because the children of PRIDE HATE CHRIST and all he stands for.

Revelation 19:15
And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Again, lets take a look at this time when Christ returns:

Jude 1:14-16
And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

Paul even agree's with Jude:

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9

And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Once the cancer (darkness and his kin), is eliminated, Christ will certainly be all in all.

If you have a cancer, and it is removed, we can say that now your body is full of health and life.  Health reigns now within all your body because the cancer is gone.

Until the cancer is gone, we can not say you are healthy or that life and health reign all in all in your body.

Once the darkness is gone, Christ (life), will certainly be all in all.

Believe Christ before you take the hard things (to be understood), that Paul taught (which he made confounding for the elect sake).

Matthew 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.




Hope and truth in Christ Jesus (the word of God).

[SeekerSA]

Hey Peace

Only one name written in the BoL

Blessings

[Peacetroll]

I bet that name is Jesus Christ, possibly even MAN.  And who is MAN?  MAN = GOD (his real name).

And if we be not in him and him in us.

We have no life nor shall we see life.

Romans 3:24
being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,

Romans 6:11
Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Romans 8:1
[ Free from Indwelling Sin ] There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.

But of course I know you know this seeker.

[pickr]

Ahh.

The complexity of scripture and yet the simplicity.

For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

Notice its IN Christ.  Those IN Christ shall be 'made alive'.

IN Christ you are alive.  IF you are not IN Christ you are not alive.

You see all IN CHRIST certainly shall be made alive.  All those OUTSIDE OF CHRIST are dead and not alive!  ALL IN HIM ARE 100% MADE ALIVE!  I wish I could explain it better.

Hi again, Peacetroll,

I understand, you, I think. But I think you are missing something important. Critical, actually. You're familiar, I'm sure, with the other time Paul makes the counteranalogy between Adam and Jesus. And I believe it shatters your interpretation rather soundly.

Rom 5:12-19 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:  (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.

For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.

Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

I don't see how Paul could have made it clearer. What I think is tripping you up is that you cannot yet see that the day is coming when all men will be in Christ. That's what I was trying to show you about the ministry of reconciliation... that it is not merely for this age, but also for an age and for ages yet to come, until everything on the earth, under the earth and in heaven can be reconciled to its Creator.

Don't you wonder about the leaves of the tree of life and the healing they are foretold to bring? Don't you wonder how it is that the kings of the earth who warred against Jesus and were thrown into the lake of fire are to bring their gllory into the holy city, where nothing evil in God's sight may enter?

Check this out----------

John 6:53
Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

1 John 5:12
He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

As for Paul, he spoke many things hard to be understood.

All nations shall bow to him, but not of their own will.  Therefore it can be stated that all nations shall bow (during the millinium), but only because he forces them too with an IRON ROD!!!

Just because you bow to him (because you have too), does not mean you love him.  I bow to the rules of the government, but I certainly don't love the government. 

These who hate Christ shall also bow, but they do this only because he FORCES PEACE AND JUSTICE AGAINST THEIR WILL!!

That is not at all the picture painted by Isaiah's prophecy, my brother. Check this out! :-)

Isa 45:22  Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.

I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.

Surely, shall one say, in the LORD have I righteousness and strength: even to him shall men come; and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed.

As the verse clearly states, Peacetroll, this is all about salvation. And what will the bowers and swearers (which, clearly, is everyone) be saying? That "in the LORD have I righteousness and strength." The verse also suggests that certainly many, perhaps even all, will be ashamed. Paul provides the further insight that all this bowing and swearing (worship!) will serve to glorify God. Yet, your interpretation is not indicated in any manner, shape or form.

Christ Overcame.  Period.  And we are victors only because of Christ in us.

Yes. And all will one day be in Christ. The scriptures from 1Corinthians that I've already quoted to you demonstrate that.

Revelation 12:5
And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

That man child is Christ.  The Iron rod means BY FORCE.  Why force?  Because the children of PRIDE HATE CHRIST and all he stands for.

Revelation 19:15
And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Yes. He shall smithe them and rule them. And He will subject them. And they shall worship Him and confess with their mouths, believing in their hearts that He is the Lord. Isn't that great?!

Again, lets take a look at this time when Christ returns:

Jude 1:14-16
And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

Paul even agree's with Jude:

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9

And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Once the cancer (darkness and his kin), is eliminated, Christ will certainly be all in all.

If you have a cancer, and it is removed, we can say that now your body is full of health and life.  Health reigns now within all your body because the cancer is gone.

Until the cancer is gone, we can not say you are healthy or that life and health reign all in all in your body.

Once the darkness is gone, Christ (life), will certainly be all in all.

Believe Christ before you take the hard things (to be understood), that Paul taught (which he made confounding for the elect sake).

Matthew 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

It is my earnest prayer that the majesty and scope of God's salvation in Jesus Christ flows over you one day, Peacetroll. He not only has the power to save all men. He has the will to do so. And yet, you cannot believe Him.

God hates sin, but He yet loves the sinners. That's why Jesus came. It's why He gave His precious life as a ransom for all.

Peace and blessings to you,

Andy

[Taffy]

All nations shall bow to him, but not of their own will.  Therefore it can be stated that all nations shall bow (during the millinium), but only because he forces them too with an IRON ROD!!!

Just because you bow to him (because you have too), does not mean you love him.  I bow to the rules of the government, but I certainly don't love the government.

These who hate Christ shall also bow, but they do this only because he FORCES PEACE AND JUSTICE AGAINST THEIR WILL!!

yo Bro PT :icon_flower:

hope your well dude? :icon_flower:

Theres a misconception about this ROD , Its a Rod ( voice of Authority ) by correction Done in LOVE...hard Love MAYBE a  better term.?

Paul also had the Use of Such a ROD.

1Cr 4:21  What will ye? shall I come unto you with a rod, or in love, and [in] the spirit of meekness?

The nations are Individuals and their Pots need to be broken as with all flesh...but its the same pot which is remade..not two  seperate pots

Jer 18:4  And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make [it].


Jer 18:5 ¶ Then the word of the LORD came to me, saying,


Jer 18:6  O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? saith the LORD. Behold, as the clay [is] in the potter's hand, so [are] ye in mine hand, O house of Israel



Brother GOD IS LOVE..its HIS essence   thats  misunderstood

This is Just not a message to One type of people, this happens to US ALL.

The Tares and wheat Grow together?

Christ the hidden man of the heart restoring that which was LOST?

Blessings
Bro

Taffy

[Peacetroll]

So many issues open for rebutal,

but so little time at the moment.

One point of Isaiah I would like to pull out and expound on is this....

Surely, shall one say, in the LORD have I righteousness and strength: even to him shall men come; and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed. Isaiah

Who is the 'one'???

Let me give you the modern translation:

Surely, shall one (Christ Jesus) say, in the LORD have I righteousness and strenght: even to him (the 'one'...Jesus Christ) shall men come; and all that are incensede against him (the 'one'...Jesus Christ) shall be ashamed.

you might want to digest that for awhile.

Also, will we who believe in Christ ever be ashamed?

Lets go to scripture....

Isaiah 45:17
But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

Isaiah 50:7
For the Lord GOD will help me; therefore shall I not be confounded: therefore have I set my face like a flint, and I know that I shall not be ashamed.

Romans 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Romans 5:5
And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

Romans 9:33
As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

I hope that helps some in understanding that you who believe in Christ will not be ashamed.  And that it is Jesus (the 'ONE') of whom trusted in the LORD and all others fall short of this.  We are to believe in the 'One'.

Peace in Christ.

[Taffy]

Yo PT

For sure Matey you entitled to your thoughts.

Mes happy to leave it there.

But if you post others may take  on your rebuttal

Blessings
Taffy

[pickr]

So many issues open for rebutal,

but so little time at the moment.

Understood. I'll look forward to your more detailed response later, if you have time. (You do have a lot of irons in the discussion fire! :-) )

But I found your response on Isaiah 45 interesting. You said:

One point of Isaiah I would like to pull out and expound on is this....

Surely, shall one say, in the LORD have I righteousness and strength: even to him shall men come; and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed. Isaiah

Who is the 'one'???

Let me give you the modern translation:

Surely, shall one (Christ Jesus) say, in the LORD have I righteousness and strenght: even to him (the 'one'...Jesus Christ) shall men come; and all that are incensede against him (the 'one'...Jesus Christ) shall be ashamed.

you might want to digest that for awhile.

Interesting. I'd be interested in whence such a translation and interpretation comes. Perhaps the New King James?

I'd also be interested in how you square the universal worship (what else would you call bowing and confessing) of Jesus that is so clearly foretold with your earlier description of this as some sort of coerced sham. More importantly, how could such a sham provide any glory to Almighty God, as Paul says this bowing and confessing shall?

Also, will we who believe in Christ ever be ashamed?

In Isaiah 45, God is referring to "all the ends of the earth." In other words, to everyone. That's the point I was making. And many, perhaps even most, people will be ashamed. Nevertheless, they will fall down in worship to the Lord, and all that to the glory of God.

Peace and blessings to you, Peacetroll.

Andy

[willieH]

willieH: Hi PT... :hithere: ...Me again!  :eek:

Revelation 13:7-9
And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

If any man have an ear, let him hear.

Which is ALL MEN ...PT...  The POWER of ADVERSITY started with Adam and Eve, and ALL have continued in it...  Men seat themselves in the temple of GOD, and act as GOD... displacing the RIGHTFUL LORD that should be seated there... THIS is what causes EACH NAME to be be BLOTTED OUT of the Book of Life...

SIN makes us ALL ...ineligible to SPIRITUAL LIFE... only GOD can RECONCILE us to it...  (If any man hath an ear, ...let him hear!)

Revelation 20:14-15
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire

As IN ADAM [son of the natural/adversity] ...ALL DIE, so IN CHRIST [Son of GOD] shall ALL be made ALIVE!  (let him that hath an ear, hear)

Alive from what? From DEATH which is what REMOVES us from LIFE'S BOOK!  This isn't just about physical DEATH, it is about ALL DEATH... CHRIST came to conquer ALL DEATH (let him that hath an ear, hear)

Death and "hell" (hades) were cast INTO the LAKE OF FIRE... is DEATH not present in THIS LIFE, brother PT?  Is the GRAVE (HADES) not present in THIS LIFE, brother PT?  (let him that hath an ear, hear)

And whosoever was not found written in the book of life, was cast into the Lake of Fire, ...which is ALL MEN! ALL men are subject to PHYSICAL and SPIRITUAL DEATH... which means they are NOT in LIFE in either case... until DEATH is reconciled to LIFE...

THIS LIFE, ...IS... the Lake of FIRE...  (let him that hath an ear, hear)

(Rev 3:18) States that CHRIST's doings were TRIED in FIRE... well those doings took place in THIS LIFE...  CHRIST endured His sufferings HERE... and we follow Him in suffering, which also takes place, HERE!  (Let him that hath an ear, hear)

Mark 9:49 says ALL shall be "salted" with FIRE... well ALL are in THIS LIFE... and are continually amongst FIREY TRIALS... and face the FIREY DARTS of ADVERSITY (the devil) (let him that hath an ear, hear)

Peace...  :HeartThrob:

In  JESUS...willieH :gamer:

[bobf]

You can read about at the end of John's vision when he talks about the new Jerusalem, where the gates are always open.

Hey Andy,

Compare Revelation 21 with Isaiah 60 to see why the gates are always open.  In a nutshell, this is the reason "they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it."

Blessings,
Bob

[bobf]

Also, will we who believe in Christ ever be ashamed?

In the future, no.  In the past yes.

Isaiah 54:4 Fear not; for thou shalt not be ashamed: neither be thou confounded; for thou shalt not be put to shame: for thou shalt forget the shame of thy youth, and shalt not remember the reproach of thy widowhood any more. 5 For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called. 6 For the LORD hath called thee as a woman forsaken and grieved in spirit, and a wife of youth, when thou wast refused, saith thy God. 7 For a small moment have I forsaken thee; but with great mercies will I gather thee. 8 In a little wrath I hid my face from thee for a moment; but with everlasting kindness will I have mercy on thee, saith the LORD thy Redeemer.

Ezekiel 36:31 Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good, and shall lothe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations. 32 Not for your sakes do I this, saith the Lord GOD, be it known unto you: be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel. 33 thus saith the Lord GOD; In the day that I shall have cleansed you from all your iniquities I will also cause you to dwell in the cities, and the wastes shall be builded.

[giftsimple]

Revelation 13:7-9
And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

If any man have an ear, let him hear.

Revelation 20:14-15
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire

In Romans 8, the Spirit taught Paul that all the children God created were made subject to devils down here, but Father will remove them all "from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children above".

[pickr]

Hey Andy,

Compare Revelation 21 with Isaiah 60 to see why the gates are always open.  In a nutshell, this is the reason "they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it."

Blessings,
Bob

Thank you. Thank you. THANK YOU!  :happy3:

Peace and blessings,

Andy

[willieH]

willieH: Hi PT... :hithere:

Ahh.

The complexity of scripture and yet the simplicity.

For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

Notice its IN Christ.  Those IN Christ shall be 'made alive'. [?????]

:omg:  WHAT?????  :mshock:   :faint:  Where do you see the word "those" mentioned in this verse???   :dunno2:

Did you misquote these words from 1 Cor 15:22 purposely, PT?   :dunno:

It does NOT say: ..."those" IN CHRIST shall be made alive,

It says:  :dbook:  ...even so, IN CHRIST shall ALL be made alive...

IN Christ you are alive.  IF you are not IN Christ you are not alive.

This is correct, and the verse PLAINLY SAYS, IN CHRIST shall ALL be made ALIVE!

You see all IN CHRIST certainly shall be made alive.  All those OUTSIDE OF CHRIST are dead and not alive!  ALL IN HIM ARE 100% MADE ALIVE!  I wish I could explain it better.

Before ANYONE is IN CHRIST dear brother PT, ...they are NOT IN CHRIST! 

Before YOU or I were IN CHRIST, guess what?

We (you or I), were NOT ...IN CHRIST!  Can you not see this?  :dontknow:

Each one IN DUE TIME   :clock: ...shall find him/herself IN CHRIST (1 Tim 2:6)

Peace...   :boogie:

In  JESUS...willieH   :drummer:

[pickr]

Thanks for jumping into the fray, Willie. Appreciate your scholarship more than you know.

Me? I'm just a half-informed zealot!  :happy3:

Peace and blessings to you, and to Peacetroll,

Andy

[willieH]

willieH: Hi Andy... :hithere:

Thanks for jumping into the fray, Willie. Appreciate your scholarship more than you know.

Me? I'm just a half-informed zealot!  :happy3:

Peace and blessings to you, and to Peacetroll,

Andy

Thanks for your kind words brother Andy... Let us all praise Him for His use of us as instruments to help one another! 

May :bowing: JESUS be glorified IN and BY ...all of us!   :myahoo: :declare:

Peace...   :boogie:

In  JESUS...willieH   :drummer:

[FineLinen]

All nations shall bow to him, but not of their own will.  Therefore it can be stated that all nations shall bow (during the millinium), but only because he forces them too with an IRON ROD!!!

Nonsense. I suggest you acquaint yourself with the meaning of exomologeo and homologeo.

These who hate Christ shall also bow, but they do this only because he FORCES PEACE AND JUSTICE AGAINST THEIR WILL!!

All beings in all dimensions of the heavens, the earth and the underworld ultimately bow before Him in worship.  The Greek states that this is in willing worship and praise and celebration.  Not by rote or perfunctory genuflections and resounds to the glory of God. 

ejxomologevw =

To confess/ profess

To acknowledge openly and joyfully to one's honour.

To celebrate.

Robertson New Testament Word Pictures

That in the name of Jesus every knee should bow (ina en twi onomati Ihsou pan gonu kampshi).

First aorist active subjunctive of kamptw, old verb, to bend, to bow, in purpose clause with ina.

Not perfunctory genuflections whenever the name of Jesus is mentioned, but universal acknowledgment of the majesty and power of Jesus who carries his human name and nature to heaven. This universal homage to Jesus is seen in Romans 8:22; Ephesians 1:20-22 and in particular Revelation 5:13.

Rev. 5:13 -Robertson's Word Pictures of the New Testament-

Every created thing (pan ktisma).

Every creature in a still wider antiphonal circle beyond the circle of angels (from ktizw, for which see 1 Timothy 4:4; James 1:18), from all the four great fields of life (in heaven, upon the earth, under the earth as in verse 3, with on the sea epi thv talasshv added).

No created thing is left out. This universal chorus of praise to Christ from all created life reminds one of the profound mystical passage in Romans 8:20-22 concerning the sympathetic agony of creation (ktisiv) in hope of freedom from the bondage of corruption. If the trail of the serpent is on all creation, it will be ultimately thrown off.

[Redlettervoice]

I've got a feeling that what was NOT written in the BOOK of LIFE was NOT written in it
from the beginning! 

Might not want to take that stuff to heaven? ha Might be a part of the "generation" of
HIS wrath!
Selah!


Remember what it says about going into Cannaan, about when "all the MEN of WAR
had died off" how little piles were left behind all thru the wilderness?

But man, what emerged!

[Craig]

Hi Peacetroll,

Just a couple of comments.

Revelation 13:7-9
And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

If any man have an ear, let him hear.

But that isn't the end of the story, Peacetroll. John tells us that there's a victory yet to be won! :-)

Rev 15:2-3  And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.

And do you want to know the extent of the victory? John tells us that, too, in the very next verse!

Rev 15:4 Who shall not fear thee, O Lord, and glorify thy name? for thou only art holy: for all nations shall come and worship before thee; for thy judgments are made manifest.

Did you catch that?! It ties in with that wonderful prophecy of Isaiah, that every knee will bow and every tongue confess.

Revelation 20:14-15
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire

But that isn't the end of the story either. The lake of fire is far from being the end.

You can read about at the end of John's vision when he talks about the new Jerusalem, where the gates are always open. And the leaves of the tree of life are for healing. Didn't you ever ask yourself who it could be that yet requires healing at this point in the story? What possible need could there be for any remaining ministry?

I think the answer measures up magnificently with the glorious purpose of God in Christ Jesus, the ministry of reconciliation that Paul so wonderfully outlines to the Corinthians. (Pay close attention to the pronouns "us" and "them." It's the key to understanding what Paul is saying.)

2Cr 5:18-20  And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

Do you see it, Peacetroll? The ministry of reconciliation is what we are all about as Christians. And it won't stop when Christ returns to rule and reign with His saints. The leaves of the tree of life are for healing!

I'll leave you with one more bit of scripture, again from Paul's words to the Corinthians. I don't think you can understand John's visions without bearing in mind these words from Paul.

1Cor 15:19-28 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.

But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

You see? It"s the sheer majesty of it all that just blows me away. It's the evidence that God really does know what he's doing! Nothing has been left to chance. Jesus really is the savior of the world. His elect really are ministers of reconciliation, ambassadors for their Lord. And one day, armed with the leaves of the tree of life, they will fulfill Jesus' prophecy that they will perform even greater miracles than Jesus did.

Peace and blessings and much love in Christ,

Andy

Amen Andy.

[Andy]

I second that Amen Craig and Andy,

The salvation of all mankind is truely good news!

Anything less than the salvation of ALL mankind is not really good news at all is it?

Luk 2:11-14 KJVR
(11)  For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Savior, which is Christ the Lord.
(12)  And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger.
(13)  And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying,
(14)  Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men.

[SeekerSA]

Someone messed up their songsheets

14)  Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward (some) men

Blessings :laughing7:

[Peacetroll]

Willie.

You must be in Christ to be alive.

IN Christ.

Romans 3:24
Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Romans 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Romans 12:5
So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.

Romans 16:7
Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellow-prisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.

You see Paul himself KNEW that he was not IN CHRIST prior to believing IN CHRIST.

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.


I don't know how to make that much clearer.

And to be in Christ you must believe IN HIM.

Ah well.

[FineLinen]

Willie.

You must be in Christ to be alive.

Oh for sure, P.T.

The same all who die in Adam are the all made alive in Christ. And, the all made sinners are the same identical all made righteous. The fact is: in the dispensation of the fulness of times the Lord of Glory gathers together in, or into Christ Jesus, the radical all in the heavens and the earth and the underworld.