If Torment is Forever......
Jesus is Alpha, but He is NOT Omega.
If Torment is Forever......
Behold, I am NOT MAKING ALL THINGS NEW
If Torment is Forever.....
And
every created thing which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all things in them, I heard saying, "To Him who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb, be blessing and honor and glory and dominion forever and ever."
(Rev 5:13)
NEVER HAPPENS
If Torment is Forever........
"If I be lifted up I CANNOT DRAW ALL MEN UNTO ME!"
If Torment is Forever.....
If I be lifted up, I MIGHT ONLY DRAW A FEW MEN TO ME!
feel free to add :o)
If torture is forever...
Jesus has failed, is failing, and will fail.
But...
Jesus has not failed, is not failing, and will not fail.
Therefore...
Torture is NOT forever.
If torture is forever...
While the Good Shepherd saving that one sheep, the wolves raid the pen with the other 99 sheep.
If torture is forever...
Abortion clinics are the most effective churches.
If torture is forever...
There shall be two folds. (John 10:16)
If torture is forever...
God won't be all-in-all
If torture is forever...
The HS is of marginal effect. (Acts 2:17)
If torture is forever...
Satan wins.
If torture is forever...
Israel won't be saved because of unbelief. (Romans 11:26)
If torture is forever...
All creation won't praise God (Rev 5:13)
If torture is forever...
Most things will remain old.
If torture is forever...
God's is unable to do His pleasure (Isa 46:10)
If torture is forever...
The veil won't be destroyed. (Isa 25:7)
If torture is forever...
Sodom won't be restored of God's vengance justice. (Ezekiel 16:55)
If torture is forever...
Very few decendants of Israel will be justified. (Isa 45:23)
If torture is forever...
He won't raise all who have fallen into sin. (Psalm 145:14)
If torture is forever...
It did enter His mind to torture with fire. (Jer 32:35)
If torture is forever...
His arm will stay hidden. (Isa 52:10)
If torture is forever...
God doesn't love His enemies.
If torture is forever...
God won't overcome evil with good.
If torture is forever...
Most of humanity wasn't created by God. (
If torture is forever...
His counsel will be crumble under the power of humanity.
If torture is forever...
We should be scared of the future. (Mat 6:25-34)
If torture is forever...
God doesn't do as He commands (bless who curses you) (Luke 26:28)
If torture is forever...
Hell will be in heaven. (Lam 3:31-32)
If torture is forever...
God doesn't guide steps. (psalm 37:23)
If torture is forever...
Won't retrieve man from destuction (Psalm 90:3)
Nuff said.... :-)
there is no peace for the wicked. opposite of peace is torment...but Praise beto God who justifies the wicked....
How does God justify the wicked? It is by His will that there are vessels of dishonour/wrath and vessels of mercy/grace..for this
exercize good/evil education of His children.. it is written....but that is what SOME OF YOU WERE.....
and who can contend with His work of His hands? When He states...I will put a new spirit in you...and give you a new heart...
and Christ's words...and I will gather out of my Kingdom all things that 'cause" sin..and all things that offend
wherte does that leave any man..who has in fact borne the corruptible image in Adam...to raise his voice against the judgements of God.
that all men shall be clothed in grace of God and bear the image of the incorruptible3 one.
Now..it is the last day...His judgements are made manifest..that the prince of this world is evil....
it is 2000 yrs later..and that day ..as decreed in the Word..is to get brighter and brighter...
the stone of stumbling..the cheif cornerstone was laid......it shattered the image of the King of Babylon..men as kings ruling in the matter
and sitting on God's throne of judgement as to who is 'worthy" of grace.
that 'STONE" not cut out by human hands is grace that grows into the Mountain of the Lord and fills the entire earth...it is God's Glory...
the salvation of ALL mankind. It is the work of HIS HANDS...and it is our righteousness..."I must do the works of My Father who sent me"
'I will not let you go entirely unpunished...but will discipline you with justice" Thus sin in the flesh is condemned in all men....
Quote from: sheila on August 29, 2012, 06:18:28 PM
there is no peace for the wicked. opposite of peace is torment...but Praise beto God who justifies the wicked....
How does God justify the wicked? It is by His will that there are vessels of dishonour/wrath and vessels of mercy/grace..for this
exercize good/evil education of His children.. it is written....but that is what SOME OF YOU WERE.....
and who can contend with His work of His hands? When He states...I will put a new spirit in you...and give you a new heart...
and Christ's words...and I will gather out of my Kingdom all things that 'cause" sin..and all things that offend
wherte does that leave any man..who has in fact borne the corruptible image in Adam...to raise his voice against the judgements of God.
that all men shall be clothed in grace of God and bear the image of the incorruptible3 one.
Now..it is the last day...His judgements are made manifest..that the prince of this world is evil....
it is 2000 yrs later..and that day ..as decreed in the Word..is to get brighter and brighter...
the stone of stumbling..the cheif cornerstone was laid......it shattered the image of the King of Babylon..men as kings ruling in the matter
and sitting on God's throne of judgement as to who is 'worthy" of grace.
that 'STONE" not cut out by human hands is grace that grows into the Mountain of the Lord and fills the entire earth...it is God's Glory...
the salvation of ALL mankind. It is the work of HIS HANDS...and it is our righteousness..."I must do the works of My Father who sent me"
'I will not let you go entirely unpunished...but will discipline you with justice" Thus sin in the flesh is condemned in all men....
mmm hmm, mmm hmmm, mmm hmmm :thumbsup:
AWESOME!
Quotethat 'STONE" not cut out by human hands is grace that grows into the Mountain of the Lord and fills the entire earth
I was just reading that in Daniel last night! And when I read sheila's post I felt a God explosion in my spirit, that's the only way to describe it lol! :goodpost:
If torment is forever then the sins of the wicked will mock the futile cross throughout eternity.ol. 1:16-21
Quote from: lomarah on August 29, 2012, 08:11:33 PM
AWESOME!
Quotethat 'STONE" not cut out by human hands is grace that grows into the Mountain of the Lord and fills the entire earth
I was just reading that in Daniel last night! And when I read sheila's post I felt a God explosion in my spirit, that's the only way to describe it lol! :goodpost:
Yes, I love that bit of Scripture too. You know, it means that the Kingdom cannot be established by the arm of flesh, something man has been trying to do for thousands of years, beginning with Nimrod. It is all God's doing.
If torment is forever then the arm of the flesh will hav triumphed over the Spirit of Grace
If torture is forever omniscient creator is a sadist.
If torture is for ever then God, in sustaining its existence, must constantly monitor it with approval or He would have to change it. This is an abominable God of great evil.
Of course, the true God is not like this, bless His Holy Name for ever! Praise You Lord Jesus, that You are full of tender pity and delighting in lovingkindness! We thank You that You have opened our understanding to the Truth, delivering our thoughts from bondage to hatred and our passions from controlling anger. Bless You for the glorious peace and mercy of Your Own Nature You have revealed within us, changing us into the same image. We give You thanks for ever!
Quote from: reFORMer on September 03, 2012, 05:29:47 PM
If torture is for ever then God, in sustaining its existence, must constantly monitor it with approval or He would have to change it. This is an abominable God of great evil.
Of course, the true God is not like this, bless His Holy Name for ever! Praise You Lord Jesus, that You are full of tender pity and delighting in lovingkindness! We thank You that You have opened our understanding to the Truth, delivering our thoughts from bondage to hatred and our passions from controlling anger. Bless You for the glorious peace and mercy of Your Own Nature You have revealed within us, changing us into the same image. We give You thanks for ever!
Oh Yeah! (that's modern English for AMEN! just in case anyone needs the translation :o)
If ET is forever, Wouldn't Christ have to be tormented forever in order for anyone to escape this torture?
CHB
The thing is when someone says the word "torment" we instantly go to a dark, deep, medieval dungeon where an image of a 6.5 tall guy, with a black mask is whipping people just because he wants to.
Torment and and many other words mean something entirely different to us than what the Biblical writers had in mine when they wrote them.
Torment was a touchstone that they used to test precious metals.
Maybe that is what they meant
And maybe some of us are going to end as a pretty worthless metal, and will be ashamed!
Shame may last for a moment, but redemption shall last for eternity. The Lamb has shed His blood for the sins of the whole world(Col 1:16-20). God will be all in all(1 Cor 15:23-28).
If anyone is caught in a trespass, let those who are spiritual among you restore such a one in a spirit of meekness, considering your own selves, lest you should stumble.
IMO, Torment is the word ET'ers use because they can stand the thought of "torment" but not the idea of torture. At least, that's my ET wifes excuse. When we've discussed it, she doesn't mind if I say eternal Torment but if I say eternal torture she gets angry because deep down, she knows God well enough to believe he couldn't torture forever.
"This will hurt just a little bit - FOREVER
A steady drop of water falling next to a thirsty man that is unable to reach it- that is torment for a few minutes or hours but FOREVER this same thing is torture. :Peace2:
Perhaps there are forms of torment that would not be considered torture. However, once you add the word FOREVER to any of them, they definitely become TORTURE.
I've heard people soft-peddle Hell, by saying it consists of existing forever outside the presence of God - or forever in that hard-to-define "outer darkness."
If Torment is Forever ...................
then God IS NOT the Savior of ALL men, ESPECIALLY those that believe.
Doh! :doh: Theres another one of those lying voices from the scriptures.
Quote from: GodIsLove on December 03, 2012, 08:39:59 AM
The thing is when someone says the word "torment" we instantly go to a dark, deep, medieval dungeon where an image of a 6.5 tall guy, with a black mask is whipping people just because he wants to.
Torment and and many other words mean something entirely different to us than what the Biblical writers had in mine when they wrote them.
Torment was a touchstone that they used to test precious metals.
Maybe that is what they meant
And maybe some of us are going to end as a pretty worthless metal, and will be ashamed!
"Torment" is more mental. "Torture" is more physical. That's English. The Greek just means "suffering."
Yea, and suffering FOREVER would be "torment" AND "torture" ;o)
Denomination-doctrine-denomination- doctrine-denomination-doctrine...on and on :mshock:
Quote from: micah7:9 on January 29, 2013, 04:50:23 AM
Denomination-doctrine-denomination- doctrine-denomination-doctrine...on and on :mshock:
Yea, but, thank God, not forever :o)
Quote from: micah7:9 on January 29, 2013, 04:50:23 AM
Denomination-doctrine-denomination- doctrine-denomination-doctrine...on and on :mshock:
Demonination is the recovered spelling. Some of the moderators, including myself, have thought my little puns might be too inflammatory. You know the teaching that the gifts of the Spirit are not for now, not for the Church "parenthesis," but only for the people God really loves: the racial Jews? Among other features of that teaching, that is the foremost reason I like to write, "DipSINsationalism" rather than the right spelling. It's more commonly irritating than "demoninationalism." Whatever the doctrine, right or wrong, it's NOT the same thing as the person holding it. I think we're better off with a little laughter. Sometimes we take this all too seriously. Scripture says, "In Isaac shall my seed be called." "Isaac" means "Laugh Causer." A joke is a "laugh causer." "Sarah laughed."
Oh reF I completely agree and I love you and your posts!
reFORMer, your puns are just like my use of "theoillogical." Keep it up! Yuck it up!
I am not a dispensationalist, but I can see how someone who is would be offended by being called a "DipSINsationalist", sorry- I must disagree slightly. It is only funny to people who are not of the persuasion being characterized.
I think you're right eaglesway. Even to say they shouldn't be so pompous about their belief, though true, doesn't stop their burning with offense, at least some of them. The Proverbs says, "The words of the wise are like ox-goads, to find the path of life." It just seems faded and like root beer that's lost its fizz if I eliminate using colorful adjectives and words like "demoninations," for instance. Such organizations are not The Church and they're not the gift of "governments," or, "rudders." They're what scripture calls, "Sects with peculiar opinions." They're bureaucratic gentile authorities, another kingdom. Shouldn't we disturb people a little with what we say? Maybe they'll, "Awake to righteousness and sin not." Maybe they'll figure out why calling it "demoninationalism" irks them and get up and get out of Babyloon.
:dsunny: :HeartThrob: :banana: :gimmefive:
IMO, mental or physical - torment forever is torture
If torture, the savior is not a savior for twist it as you will,
the ET people have Jesus the Savior being Jesus the Torturer
because you didn't love him. I'm sorry, that is just sick. :sigh:
Quote from: reFORMer on January 29, 2013, 07:41:15 AM
I think you're right eaglesway. Even to say they shouldn't be so pompous about their belief, though true, doesn't stop their burning with offense, at least some of them. The Proverbs says, "The words of the wise are like ox-goads, to find the path of life." It just seems faded and like root beer that's lost its fizz if I eliminate using colorful adjectives and words like "demoninations," for instance. Such organizations are not The Church and they're not the gift of "governments," or, "rudders." They're what scripture calls, "Sects with peculiar opinions." They're bureaucratic gentile authorities, another kingdom. Shouldn't we disturb people a little with what we say? Maybe they'll, "Awake to righteousness and sin not." Maybe they'll figure out why calling it "demoninationalism" irks them and get up and get out of Babyloon.
Well yea, maybe, but then we might need to redefine the purpose of the board and the nature of our discussions :o) There are a whole of of "awaking ups" needed. Most of them don't get done through offences and sarcasm. I have seen this same pompous burning from about everyone(including myself ) at one time or another. Whether Preterist, or Literalist, or Whateverist, I have smelt the fires of Babylon coming from the chimneys of them all.
If Torment is Forever ....
No prayer has ever meant a thing.
If torment is forever, prayers, masses, penance, memorials, kind words, and all the rest, are for...
...NOTHING.
You heretic. :cloud9:
Quote from: Lazarus Short on January 30, 2013, 06:33:34 AM
If torment is forever, prayers, masses, penance, memorials, kind words, and all the rest, are for...
...NOTHING.
If torment is forever then 90% of the human race will be for nothing :faint:
Quote from: eaglesway on January 30, 2013, 02:42:30 AM
Quote from: reFORMer on January 29, 2013, 07:41:15 AM
I think you're right eaglesway. Even to say they shouldn't be so pompous about their belief, though true, doesn't stop their burning with offense, at least some of them. The Proverbs says, "The words of the wise are like ox-goads, to find the path of life." It just seems faded and like root beer that's lost its fizz if I eliminate using colorful adjectives and words like "demoninations," for instance. Such organizations are not The Church and they're not the gift of "governments," or, "rudders." They're what scripture calls, "Sects with peculiar opinions." They're bureaucratic gentile authorities, another kingdom. Shouldn't we disturb people a little with what we say? Maybe they'll, "Awake to righteousness and sin not." Maybe they'll figure out why calling it "demoninationalism" irks them and get up and get out of Babyloon.
Well yea, maybe, but then we might need to redefine the purpose of the board and the nature of our discussions :o) There are a whole of of "awaking ups" needed. Most of them don't get done through offences and sarcasm. I have seen this same pompous burning from about everyone(including myself ) at one time or another. Whether Preterist, or Literalist, or Whateverist, I have smelt the fires of Babylon coming from the chimneys of them all.
I fail to see how a little hot pepper in the stew overthrows the purpose of tentmaker. I intend to paint pictures with vibrant colors, though it may come off as pastel and boring. As touchy an issue as it is to some, I am confidant in my clarity of vision concerning the immorality of our times. Fornication is common as rain. Marriage has fallen into disrespect due to the constant propagandizing of the Marquis de Sade's worldview through televised fictions. It is also my intent to splash some salt in gay wounds to the healing of the body. It's very similar to recovering from alcoholism, the process of changing one's mind about living a homosexual lifestyle. I get the impression from some "mis-leaders" of mankind to take a vocal stand against this sin is not supposed to be done in America these days. This is not a change I can believe in. People need to know the love of God, not so they can multiply their sexual sins with impunity, but love's power to experience the miracle of His deliverance from the power and penalty of sin. If I said I was without the knowledge of God or was uncertain of it in this matter, I would be lying.
The convicting power of the Holy Spirit upon those we call to change their minds (to repent) and turn to God may temporarily produce some suffering, some torment. Are we to protect them from God? People have undergone great torment, God inflaming their hearts with the question of what they should do to be saved. If we understand somebody to be wrong, trapped into servitude to the devil, why wouldn't we speak up as God has told us to do, to speak the truth in love, specially here, perhaps the most wonderful and truly Christian website in existence. I don't know of one better. But we have to face the fact that the preaching of the gospel with signs following also produced people who sought to kill the preachers of it. Why were they that set against it? You just can't get it bland enough to slip it by the censors and it still be the vademacum it is.
Whoever bears testimony to the truth and takes note of those with whom you're dealing along spiritual lines, if you're in fellowship with other believers and you're all willing to clean fish, God will grant you new believers to be responsible for in this time of increase. Even if you find only yourself for now, an individual before God to serve those newly reborn, be willing to clean fish, as Jesus dealt with those with Him. This is compatible with what we're doing here. We're not just going over aspects of Universal Salvation, were sharing a full spectrum gospel, a coat of many colors as it were, to the saving of many souls alive, that they may walk in fellowship with our wonderful savior and others of His children. Our emphasis here on Universal Salvation is due to the great need for truth contradicting error in the present apostasy. Just as cleaning a fish, producing a new form, filets, is a messy stinky job, so is helping people along into the image of God. You can get your hand pricked with their carnal spines, too. We're offering something up to God for His consumption. He's a consuming fire.
Mark 9
49-50, CLV...
49 For everyone will be salted with fire, and every sacrifice will be salted with salt.
50 Ideal is the salt, yet if the salt should be becoming savorless, with what will you be seasoning it? Have salt in yourselves and be at peace with one another."
These "fires" though, it indicates something I can't settle yet. There's definitely torment, suffering due to states of mind. Maybe we just have to live in the tension of unresolved identities, wondering if the fire of conflicting carnal nature is the fire of the lake of fire. Is the lake of fire the flesh? We're 3/4 water in that aspect of our being. By being mortal, and sin reigns in the realm of death (cf., Rom 5
12 and 21,) it is what must change. It cannot remain. It is not "for ever." It burns around 98.6 degrees F. (while 90 % of the matter in the Universe exists at temperatures near absolute zero in giant clouds of methane or hydrogen. The remaining 10% is in suns at temperatures inconceivably hot.)
I agree with most of that post. The problem is, imo, as it regards the forum, is that we cannot define the "truth" so succinctly that we do not wind up with many people feeling like they are fulfilling the roles you portrayed in your post- but opposed to one another and sure that the other is of Babylon and apostate.
Then the fires that burn are the "false fires" of human indignation. There are forums where that is the function and the purpose- not sure myself, if that would be a profitable direction for Tentmaker.
I still believe focusing on the Salvation of All, the Reconciliation of All and the Restoration of All Things is where the Holy Spirit desires us to dwell right now so that those who come, and even those who pass through, get that message and take it wherever they go.
I spent many years throwing rocks at the gates of Babylon before I realized the Lord had commanded me to GO TO ZION AND REBUILD THE TEMPLE.
IMO the lake of fire is the effect of the presence of God upon the wicked and the rebellious- beings with dark hearts and corrupted spirits chained in the light until all becomes light.
Quote from: eaglesway on January 31, 2013, 06:55:43 AM
I agree with most of that post. The problem is, imo, as it regards the forum, is that we cannot define the "truth" so succinctly that we do not wind up with many people feeling like they are fulfilling the roles you portrayed in your post- but opposed to one another and sure that the other is of Babylon and apostate.
Then the fires that burn are the "false fires" of human indignation. There are forums where that is the function and the purpose- not sure myself, if that would be a profitable direction for Tentmaker.
Fuzzy headedness about what is true or good should not be thought a place engendering warm feelings for all. God's satisfaction is our foremost concern. I don't intend to evade my responsibility to "llift up my voice as a trumpet...with no uncertain sound." God has changed my life and I am to bear witness to it. As salt and light, my purpose is not to ignite "the 'false fires' of human indignation." That would not be a profitable direction for anybody; and, (not "if", but,) when people are offended by the truth spoken in love, perhaps we can remember how unlike the present drift of godless society love really is...
[4] Charity suffereth long, [and] is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, [5] Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own,
is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; [6] Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; [7] Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. [8] Charity never faileth..." (1 Cor 13
4-8, KJV)
Quote from: eaglesway on January 31, 2013, 06:55:43 AM
I still believe focusing on the Salvation of All, the Reconciliation of All and the Restoration of All Things is where the Holy Spirit desires us to dwell right now so that those who come, and even those who pass through, get that message and take it wherever they go.
We understand our emphasis here at tentmaker is Universal Salvation. It is in the context of all truth. It is in agreement with the whole of scripture. We are not to shrink from proclaiming "the whole counsel of God." Unlike many others we genuinely have a "full gospel" to proclaim. Jesus speaks of this bringing a sword. Not only am I warned in the word, my experience has been that the gospel of peace has been fought against. Our goal can't be not to upset anybody.
It is wrong to counsel ourselves to not mention this or that sin, to not illuminate how a certain course of action is harmful lest others misunderstand and reject me. We sometimes justify this with the thought they'll be convicted if they get to know the Lord. Let Jesus handle it. Peter at least had changing of the mind, as well as being buried into Jesus death and raised in the newness of His life, in fact, "the remission of sins," as prior to receiving the gift of the Spirit of God. "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. "(Acts 2
38, KJV) I'm sure this order of events was not quite meant as an invariable law, but it can be relied on as a good understanding of the work of God in the gospel which we are to preach to EVERY creature.
Quote from: eaglesway on January 31, 2013, 06:55:43 AM
I spent many years throwing rocks at the gates of Babylon before I realized the Lord had commanded me to GO TO ZION AND REBUILD THE TEMPLE.
IMO the lake of fire is the effect of the presence of God upon the wicked and the rebellious- beings with dark hearts and corrupted spirits chained in the light until all becomes light.
I'm sure torment cannot be for ever! I do not doubt it either. What is already true of Jesus has to come to pass everywhere. As He says in Revelation, "There shall be...NO MORE PAIN. (It has been done.") One thing implicated in this is that we have to grow up. God is worthy of a people upon whom His name is written. We are to "maintain the unity of the spirit in the bond of peace..." while we are on the way to bearing His exact image. That is, "...until we ALL come in the unity of the faith, and knowledge of the son of God, unto a Perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ..." (Eph 4
13, KJV)
one persons fuzzy headedness is another persons truth and vice versa. In a discussion forum engendering good feelings is the means of allowing positive discussion from different points of view- hopefully arriving at the truth.
Truth is, sometimes when you are absolutley sure of yourself I may think you are fuzzyheaded- but if I speak to you as if you are fuzzy headed, instead of giving you due respect and reasoning from the scriptures- not as if I am establishing final truth, but rather as one who is reasoning with another due simple respect(regardless of how wrong I think they are)- the odds of a genuine exchange of grace is more likey.
The absolute truth of Babylonite and Zionite forum is somewhere else on the internet :o)
If Torment is forever... we should hate our neighbors by imitating Christ (1 Cor. 11:1)
If Torment is forever, than Christ, while on the cross, should have said was: "It is Kinda Finished."
Quote from: VineBranch on February 11, 2013, 08:51:32 PM
If Torment is forever, than Christ, while on the cross, should have said was: "It is Kinda Finished."
HAHA GOOD ONE.
Kinda Sorta Wished It Was But Isnt Really Finished eh? LOL
I'm glad we follow a Christ who did NOT say things like, "Listen up! There is a measure of truth in what I say..."
If torture is forever, you'd be roasting in hell right now. Forever spans 'all' time.
The word 'age' springs to mind. Something mainstreamists just can't grasp.
Quote from: marcmarc on February 14, 2013, 04:13:39 AM
If torture is forever, you'd be roasting in hell right now.
Lots of folks believe just that, but believing doesn't make it true. As to "forever," I think people mean it in the sense of "until the end of time" - a forward-pointing infinite span of time. Whatever, Hell is a 404.
Whoever bears testimony to the truth and takes note of those with whom you're dealing along spiritual lines, if you're in fellowship with other believers and you're all willing to clean fish.
Sorry but I don't clean fish.
I can sell the fillets and be in charge of the money.
The secret to the successes of the early church was,
that they had no secrets.
I think the early church success was due to a couple of factors
1.) The holy Spirit
2.) recentness of miracles
3.) No powerr guys in control saying, "This is the way it's always been done"
Bob Coy from Calvary Chapel Ft. Luaderdale (6 to 10,000 in 12 years) said, "the reason this church is successful is that we are just average guys that have never done this before and have no idea what we are doing. We HAVE TO rely on the Holy Spirit for guidance and direction."
Quote from: dajomaco on February 14, 2013, 06:41:47 PM
Whoever bears testimony to the truth and takes note of those with whom you're dealing along spiritual lines, if you're in fellowship with other believers and you're all willing to clean fish.
Sorry but I don't clean fish.
I can sell the fillets and be in charge of the money.
The secret to the successes of the early church was,
that they had no secrets.
How long has that been known: no one told me. :laughing7:
Acts 5
Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
Lying to the Holy Spirit
5 But a man named Ananias, with his wife Sapphira, sold a piece of property. 2 However, he kept back part of the proceeds with his wife's knowledge, and brought a portion of it and laid it at the apostles' feet.
3 Then Peter said, "Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and keep back part of the proceeds from the field? 4 Wasn't it yours while you possessed it? And after it was sold, wasn't it at your disposal? Why is it that you planned this thing in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God!" 5 When he heard these words, Ananias dropped dead, and a great fear came on all who heard. 6 The young men got up, wrapped his body, carried him out, and buried him.
7 There was an interval of about three hours; then his wife came in, not knowing what had happened. 8 "Tell me," Peter asked her, "did you sell the field for this price?"
"Yes," she said, "for that price."
9 Then Peter said to her, "Why did you agree to test the Spirit of the Lord? Look! The feet of those who have buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out!"
10 Instantly she dropped dead at his feet. When the young men came in, they found her dead, carried her out, and buried her beside her husband. 11 Then great fear came on the whole church and on all who heard these things.
Apostolic Signs and Wonders
12 Many signs and wonders were being done among the people through the hands of the apostles. By common consent they would all meet in Solomon's Colonnade. 13 None of the rest dared to join them, but the people praised them highly. 14 Believers were added to the Lord in increasing numbers—crowds of both men and women. 15 As a result, they would carry the sick out into the streets and lay them on cots and mats so that when Peter came by, at least his shadow might fall on some of them. 16 In addition, a large group came together from the towns surrounding Jerusalem, bringing sick people and those who were tormented by unclean spirits, and they were all healed.
The secret that is not so secret.
You can not be part of a group of truth seekers,
if you keep secrets from that group.
All of us, who see, see that the village is not afraid to mock you.
They are not bringing out there sick and lame.
Those who don't see ie;(the world) see Christians who partake in religion.
They see them as the most secretive society there is.
The Pope has had some of his secrets bared and he just wishes he was dead.
He will be kept alive by those who secretly want him dead.
Please avoid the above by not going any further with the lord.
Unless you have no secrets between you and those you travel
with you seeking the truth.
If torment is forever.................................
The Comforter will have His name changed to "The Torturer".
Quote from: eaglesway on February 15, 2013, 05:02:47 AM
If torment is forever.................................
The Comforter will have His name changed to "The Torturer".
On that note, if torment is forever, the Father will be thought of as a Step-Father or a Foster Father. Nice to know He isn't!
Father of the Damned ? Now that is a powerful argument against ET and for UR. How could He be Father of all without being Father of the damned in the ET paradigm?
If torment is forever, we trolls will have to endure bighunk/marcmarc/immaturesillyboy forever.
Quote from: VineBranch on February 16, 2013, 04:06:35 AM
If torment is forever, we trolls will have to endure bighunk/marcmarc/immaturesillyboy forever.
I was hoping we could put that behind us now brother and perhaps even become friends through time. I know it won't be easy, but I'm willing to try. Not much damage has been done, and it can be healed.
Quote from: VineBranch on February 16, 2013, 04:06:35 AM
If torment is forever, we trolls will have to endure bighunk/marcmarc/immaturesillyboy forever.
You two are going to be sharing the kingdom for all eternity. Might as well make up now and get it over with. :)
Quote from: lomarah on February 16, 2013, 04:17:15 AM
Quote from: VineBranch on February 16, 2013, 04:06:35 AM
If torment is forever, we trolls will have to endure bighunk/marcmarc/immaturesillyboy forever.
You two are going to be sharing the kingdom for all eternity. Might as well make up now and get it over with. :)
And isnt that what makes life so FUN!? The yings and yangs! The ups and downs...We need both! It's all there to teach us. But I think vinebranch will love me once he gets to know me...and Vinebranch, Iomarah is correct....we have.....FOREVER......Wha hahahaha! WHAR HAR HAR oink squak har!
Quote from: bighunk on February 16, 2013, 04:19:49 AM
...Wha hahahaha! WHAR HAR HAR oink squak har!
You crack me up, dood! Grawr!!
Quote from: eaglesway on February 15, 2013, 05:48:46 AM
Father of the Damned ? Now that is a powerful argument against ET and for UR. How could He be Father of all without being Father of the damned in the ET paradigm?
If ETERNAL torture was true, God would have to be the Father of the Damned since everlasting existence is a Divine attribute. This is another way God becomes evil by the implications of ET doctrine.
Yes, exactly my point. ET makes God the Father of the damned for all eternity. We're all sitting by "the lake of fire", can you just hear it?
"I tried to tell them, really I did. I never wanted this. They insisted. I gave them a choice (well, sorta). Or did I? I chose their counterparts for salvation, or did I? maybe I apointed them to damnation, but damn them, they wouldnt listen! So I HAD TO DO IT. REALLY. I HAD NO CHOICE IN THE MATTER. Oh No, What am I gonna do now. Guess I'll just have to live with it. We all make bad decisions once in awhile. Turn around children. Close your ears to their suffering, they deserve it, sorta."
Quote from: eaglesway on February 16, 2013, 05:01:23 PM
Yes, exactly my point. ET makes God the Father of the damned for all eternity. We're all sitting by "the lake of fire", can you just hear it?
"I tried to tell them, really I did. I never wanted this. They insisted. I gave them a choice (well, sorta). Or did I? I chose their counterparts for salvation, or did I? maybe I apointed them to damnation, but damn them, they wouldnt listen! So I HAD TO DO IT. REALLY. I HAD NO CHOICE IN THE MATTER. Oh No, What am I gonna do now. Guess I'll just have to live with it. We all make bad decisions once in awhile. Turn around children. Close your ears to their suffering, they deserve it, sorta."
EW you forgot to ad, "I did it out of love."
EW also forgot, "Give me a break people - I did My best!" :footmouth:
Quote from: eaglesway on February 16, 2013, 05:01:23 PM
Yes, exactly my point. ET makes God the Father of the damned for all eternity. We're all sitting by "the lake of fire", can you just hear it?
"I tried to tell them, really I did. I never wanted this. They insisted. I gave them a choice (well, sorta). Or did I? I chose their counterparts for salvation, or did I? maybe I apointed them to damnation, but damn them, they wouldnt listen! So I HAD TO DO IT. REALLY. I HAD NO CHOICE IN THE MATTER. Oh No, What am I gonna do now. Guess I'll just have to live with it. We all make bad decisions once in awhile. Turn around children. Close your ears to their suffering, they deserve it, sorta."
You know the really sad thing?
I think I know people who would picnic at that lake and feel very vindicated; they would think themselves ever so brilliant.
Thank God I am not like that floating roasting over in the middle of the lake. I was a good girl/boy and now I get to see them suffer for ever. Pass the sandwiches would you sweetie, watching people burn alive gives me an appetite.
Quote from: eaglesway on February 15, 2013, 05:02:47 AM
If torment is forever.................................
The Comforter will have His name changed to "The Torturer".
!! Wow! I think that says it just perfectly!! Whole thing not logical. Not possible. (imo) :smile:
This thread exemplifies so powerfully the problems with ET!!!
I loved the picnic analogy!!!
Quote from: VineBranch on February 16, 2013, 06:05:17 PM
Quote from: eaglesway on February 16, 2013, 05:01:23 PM
Yes, exactly my point. ET makes God the Father of the damned for all eternity. We're all sitting by "the lake of fire", can you just hear it?
"I tried to tell them, really I did. I never wanted this. They insisted. I gave them a choice (well, sorta). Or did I? I chose their counterparts for salvation, or did I? maybe I apointed them to damnation, but damn them, they wouldnt listen! So I HAD TO DO IT. REALLY. I HAD NO CHOICE IN THE MATTER. Oh No, What am I gonna do now. Guess I'll just have to live with it. We all make bad decisions once in awhile. Turn around children. Close your ears to their suffering, they deserve it, sorta."
You know the really sad thing?
I think I know people who would picnic at that lake and feel very vindicated; they would think themselves ever so brilliant.
Thank God I am not like that floating roasting over in the middle of the lake. I was a good girl/boy and now I get to see them suffer for ever. Pass the sandwiches would you sweetie, watching people burn alive gives me an appetite.
Someone please pass the manna.....Hey, watch out there brother, a little fire splashed onto the hem of your glorious white robe there. Napalm anyone? ;o)
Okay, how did you get, "Someone please pass the manna.....Hey, watch out there brother, a little fire splashed onto the hem of your glorious white robe there. Napalm anyone? ;o)" into that quote witout anyone seeing you? :Chinscratch: You is a veritable genius you is.
I just love the smell of napalm in the morning... :laughing7:
Quote from: Lazarus Short on February 17, 2013, 11:51:22 PM
I just love the smell of napalm in the morning... :laughing7:
That was said by Robert the Devil right?
No idea, never saw the movie... :dunno2:
Quote from: Lazarus Short on February 18, 2013, 07:31:09 AM
No idea, never saw the movie... :dunno2:
The line was said by Robert Duvall's character. I was playing on his last name.
Quote from: VineBranch on February 18, 2013, 08:08:46 AM
I was playing on his last name.
I did understand that part - clever.
Abstract (English, KR 20090019378 A)
A collecting device having double molten metal for collecting a valuable metal from spent catalysts and a collecting method thereof are provided to use energy efficiently by supplying waste heat in a melting furnace. A collecting device having double molten metal for collecting a valuable metal from spent catalysts includes the followings: two molten metals(20) collected from under the inside of a melting furnace(60); an input pathway(10) of the molten metal formed in a front side of melting furnace; a burner(30) heating the melting furnace in both sides of the melting furnace; a slug outlet(40) discharging gas and slag in the melting furnace; an air infusion pipe(50) supplying combustion air of high temperature to the burner; and a closing unit blocking an outlet(21) of the molten metal.
Redemption.
Have you been redeemed?
If you have been redeemed you have already been to the pit of hell.
Once purified (all the dross and slag removed)
The pure stuff is on the bottom the bad stuff on top.
So it is the bottom of the melting pot that holds the good stuff.
Or the pit.
So when some one tells you that this is from the pit of hell they are
right.
Good one Daj :thumbsup:
Quote from: dajomaco on February 18, 2013, 07:33:46 PM
Redemption.
Have you been redeemed?
If you have been redeemed you have already been to the pit of hell.
Once purified (all the dross and slag removed)
The pure stuff is on the bottom the bad stuff on top.
So it is the bottom of the melting pot that holds the good stuff.
Or the pit.
So when some one tells you that this is from the pit of hell they are
right.
I am not ever going to say, I believe in the pit and the rest is dross. Nah unh. :laugh:
Actually the gold/silver/dross/slag/refining process is often used as a metaphor in the Bible for what God does to and for us.
Quote from: Lazarus Short on February 18, 2013, 11:55:08 PM
Actually the gold/silver/dross/slag/refining process is often used as a metaphor in the Bible for what God does to and for us.
It's just I've said on these boards I know Christ and Him crucified: the rest is dross. I'm just never gonna say that about the pit is all.
PS I've tried it with slag ... it doesn't have the same ummpphhh.
Quote from: dajomaco on February 18, 2013, 07:33:46 PM
Abstract (English, KR 20090019378 A)
A collecting device having double molten metal for collecting a valuable metal from spent catalysts and a collecting method thereof are provided to use energy efficiently by supplying waste heat in a melting furnace. A collecting device having double molten metal for collecting a valuable metal from spent catalysts includes the followings: two molten metals(20) collected from under the inside of a melting furnace(60); an input pathway(10) of the molten metal formed in a front side of melting furnace; a burner(30) heating the melting furnace in both sides of the melting furnace; a slug outlet(40) discharging gas and slag in the melting furnace; an air infusion pipe(50) supplying combustion air of high temperature to the burner; and a closing unit blocking an outlet(21) of the molten metal.
Redemption.
Have you been redeemed?
If you have been redeemed you have already been to the pit of hell.
Once purified (all the dross and slag removed)
The pure stuff is on the bottom the bad stuff on top.
So it is the bottom of the melting pot that holds the good stuff.
Or the pit.
So when some one tells you that this is from the pit of hell they are
right.
http://thehouseofthelord.com/audio_video/CD4/This_Ministry_Came_Out_Of_Hell_My_Friend.html
Among other things there are some really great spiritual songs by Bob and Charlotte Torango on this site. The one above is: "This Ministry Came Out Of Hell, My Friend"