How would you all respond when an ET'er argues that God gave plenty of time for sinners to repent while they were alive?
Quote from: Searching_For_The_Truth on February 24, 2015, 12:49:22 AM
How would you all respond when an ET'er argues that God gave plenty of time for sinners to repent while they were alive?
No one can come to God unless they're given the faith to believe. Most in Jesus' day had no idea what He was about/"up to". In fact, He "hid Himself" from there. Did they have a chance to repent/believe? Many people died during that time when Jesus was on earth "hiding Himself" from them (He said "it's only given to you to understand.." to His disciples). So if a person lives 110 years, hears about Jesus, but is never given faith to believe on Him (can we conjure up our faith to be a Christian?)....
There's also a dilemma here (maybe rick can respond to this). Most of humanity that ever lived has never heard the name of Jesus Christ. Yet the Bible says there's no other way to the Father. So one thing for most who believe in ET to consider is, what happens when one either draws their last breath in this life or Jesus returns and initiates the next age? Is God done, is that it, too bad so sad? If so, what happens to those folks?
Is salvation by chance?
Quote from: Searching_For_The_Truth on February 24, 2015, 12:49:22 AM
How would you all respond when an ET'er argues that God gave plenty of time for sinners to repent while they were alive?
How cold that would make Him sound! brrrrr...! I would respond, what about all the millions who have never heard the gospel? And really, there's only one verse which can be read to imply after death all hope is lost, and that's when Jesus told the pharisees unless they repented they would die in their sins.. Surely to rise in one's sins is not as joyful as the first resurrection at Jesus' return, but why do we carry it so far? The 'hell' myth predates Christianity by quite a bit! And how every use of the word 'hell' can be easily explained!
I like to do pre-emptive strikes :laughing7: by saying things like "I think we underestimate God and His Great Plan of salvation." Or if being reaLLy low key "I can't help thinking Jesus reaches many more souls than we think, perhaps many at the moments of their passing.." in hopes of planting a seed..
Quote from: Searching_For_The_Truth on February 24, 2015, 12:49:22 AM
How would you all respond when an ET'er argues that God gave plenty of time for sinners to repent while they were alive?
It's just not a Biblical argument. It's someone's opinion. :dontknow:
I'd ask the person where it says there's a cutoff period of time in the first place.
I would agree, for those who really heard the gospel. However, not all have heard. ETrs have them burning forever too. Some of them even have little babies burning forever.
But the fact that those who have heard and refused and did not accept- even if they had enough time shouldnt automatically mean they will burn forever. How is that ETrs seem to think this is just and fair, that a person who refused the gospel should burn forever? Where did the idea that burning forever is the only just penalty for evry sinner from the least to the greatest come from anyway?
It takes a really distorted mentality to see God as pleased, and the saints content, throughout an eternity with the unending screams of souls burning alive in the foreground.
Such a god is a monstrosity, and the preaching of that monster is one of the greatest stumbling blocks there is in the world.
Quote from: eaglesway on February 24, 2015, 05:01:42 AM
I would agree, for those who really heard the gospel. However, not all have heard. ETrs have them burning forever too. Some of them even have little babies burning forever.
But the fact that those who have heard and refused and did not accept- even if they had enough time shouldnt automatically mean they will burn forever. How is that ETrs seem to think this is just and fair, that a person who refused the gospel should burn forever? Where did the idea that burning forever is the only just penalty for evry sinner from the least to the greatest come from anyway?
It takes a really distorted mentality to see God as pleased, and the saints content, throughout an eternity with the unending screams of souls burning alive in the foreground.
Such a god is a monstrosity, and the preaching of that monster is one of the greatest stumbling blocks there is in the world.
We have to keep the following verse in mind when it comes to those who heard the Gospel but refused.
"No man can come unto the Son except the Father draws him," said Jesus (John 6:44)
In UR terms, everyone will have their appointed time of salvation when the time is right.
Quote from: Searching_For_The_Truth on February 24, 2015, 05:44:40 AM
We have to keep the following verse in mind when it comes to those who heard the Gospel but refused.
"No man can come unto the Son except the Father draws him," said Jesus (John 6:44)
In UR terms, everyone will have their appointed time of salvation when the time is right.
Yes - Jesus, who told His disciples that those who had seen Him had seen the Father, also said that if He were lifted up, He would draw all men to Himself. I have noted that Jesus was silent on two issues which are held to be important by some: hell and reincarnation.
Yes, as you've been pointing out; if "hell" or eternal torment was the fate of unbelievers, wouldn't it also have been appropriate for at least some of the millions that lived during the Old Testament to have been warned about it? Or for Paul to have said something about it? Or for Jesus to have referred to something besides corrective discipline?
Quote from: eaglesway on February 24, 2015, 05:01:42 AM
I would agree, for those who really heard the gospel. However, not all have heard. ETrs have them burning forever too. Some of them even have little babies burning forever.
But the fact that those who have heard and refused and did not accept- even if they had enough time shouldnt automatically mean they will burn forever. How is that ETrs seem to think this is just and fair, that a person who refused the gospel should burn forever? Where did the idea that burning forever is the only just penalty for evry sinner from the least to the greatest come from anyway?
It takes a really distorted mentality to see God as pleased, and the saints content, throughout an eternity with the unending screams of souls burning alive in the foreground.
Such a god is a monstrosity, and the preaching of that monster is one of the greatest stumbling blocks there is in the world.
I absolutely agree!! This deep rooted doctrine of 'hell' blasphemes God everyday! And keeps the good news of the gospel hidden.
Its roots go back to Greece, to Egypt.. to Babylon and Babel Tower. It was the worship of the stars of heaven with the queen of heaven and the sun (fire) god (Baal and Baals), and the Canaanite version of it got extremely bad. But part of the mythology was a 'place of the dead' (other than the grave/or lower part of the earth/dust, where Jesus descended to).
I was reading somewhere how Dante's levels of hell were very like levels expressed in a very ancient pagan writing..
.."surely.. you won't die...?" the serpent said.. thus the need for a 'place of the dead'..
Quote from: Searching_For_The_Truth on February 24, 2015, 05:44:40 AM
We have to keep the following verse in mind when it comes to those who heard the Gospel but refused.
"No man can come unto the Son except the Father draws him," said Jesus (John 6:44)
In UR terms, everyone will have their appointed time of salvation when the time is right.
:banana: :iagree: :iagree:
Quote from: jabcat on February 24, 2015, 06:48:19 AM
Yes, as you've been pointing out; if "hell" or eternal torment was the fate of unbelievers, wouldn't it also have been appropriate for at least some of the millions that lived during the Old Testament to have been warned about it? Or for Paul to have said something about it? Or for Jesus to have referred to something besides corrective discipline?
:dsunny: :dsunny: Absolutely!!
The whole idea is :Chinscratch: insane.. a bit psychotic?!
[[Certainly, at the very least, veRy illogical! I really don't know how anyone believes it!]]
When I was young and was taught that doctrine, it rocked my world to the point that my only coping mechanism was to attend a bible college thinking to become a missionary.
For me, that was the only way to deal with such horrors. That burden was not "easy" at all! No "rest" then for my soul ( or anyone else's I ran into back then. Ha....drove lots of people nuts no doubt....with that desperate attempt at a rescue.)
But the Lord is good. His truth reached even me and gave me true rest in him. :)
1Co 15:22 for even as in Adam all die, so also in the Christ all shall be made alive,
1Co 15:23 and each in his proper order, a first-fruit Christ, afterwards those who are the Christ's, in his presence,
Rom 14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, to me every knee shall bow, And every tongue shall confess to God.
Isaiah 45
22"Turn to Me and be saved, all the ends of the earth;
For I am God, and there is no other.
23"I have sworn by Myself,
The word has gone forth from My mouth in righteousness
And will not turn back,
That to Me every knee will bow, every tongue will swear allegiance.
24"They will say of Me, 'Only in the LORD are righteousness and strength.'
Men will come to Him,
And all who were angry at Him will be put to shame.
All who were angry will come to him and be ashamed. But they WILL bow and "swear allegiance," and they they WILL say of him that in him are righteousness and strength. This statement is found just one chapter before this statement:
Isaiah 46
9"Remember the former things long past,
For I am God, and there is no other;
I am God, and there is no one like Me,
10Declaring the end from the beginning,
And from ancient times things which have not been done,
Saying, 'My purpose will be established,
And I will accomplish all My good pleasure';
He can accomplish ALL his pleasure? Not according to Orthodoxy. So what is his good pleasure? :Chinscratch:
1 Tim 2
I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men; 2For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty. 3For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; 4Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
So we have a Bible that says that God CAN do and get whatever he wants, plus he wants everyone to be saved, and that every knee shall bow and every mouth shall swear allegiance to him. And I'm supposed to think these things cannot happen because several Bibles agree on a mistranslation?
Quote from: Seth on February 24, 2015, 09:14:31 PM
Isaiah 45
22"Turn to Me and be saved, all the ends of the earth;
For I am God, and there is no other.
23"I have sworn by Myself,
The word has gone forth from My mouth in righteousness
And will not turn back,
That to Me every knee will bow, every tongue will swear allegiance.
24"They will say of Me, 'Only in the LORD are righteousness and strength.'
Men will come to Him,
And all who were angry at Him will be put to shame.
All who were angry will come to him and be ashamed. But they WILL bow and "swear allegiance," and they they WILL say of him that in him are righteousness and strength. This statement is found just one chapter before this statement:
Isaiah 46
9"Remember the former things long past,
For I am God, and there is no other;
I am God, and there is no one like Me,
10Declaring the end from the beginning,
And from ancient times things which have not been done,
Saying, 'My purpose will be established,
And I will accomplish all My good pleasure';
He can accomplish ALL his pleasure? Not according to Orthodoxy. So what is his good pleasure? :Chinscratch:
1 Tim 2
I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men; 2For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty. 3For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; 4Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
So we have a Bible that says that God CAN do and get whatever he wants, plus he wants everyone to be saved, and that every knee shall bow and every mouth shall swear allegiance to him. And I'm supposed to think these things cannot happen because several Bibles agree on a mistranslation?
I suspect...yes :rolllol:
Ooops, I meant to post this in the Hebrews 5:9 thread. I guess it doesn't hurt to have it in two places.
....and because it seems an impossible thing with men....God say's MINE OWN ARM BRINGS DELIVERANCE.....is MY ARM TOO
SHORT TO SAVE?...such men look upon the salvation of men..as being dependant upon man and his power...but it is when
the dashing of the power of the saints is done...that the Court sits..the Ancient of Days...and then the people are given the
Kingdom......and the POWER OF GOD WILL TRAMPLE ALL ENEMIES UNDERFOOT
Quote from: marie glen on February 24, 2015, 04:22:13 PM
I was reading somewhere how Dante's levels of hell were very like levels expressed in a very ancient pagan writing..
I would expect that, given that his literary guide was the pagan Roman poet, Virgil.
Quote from: eaglesway on February 24, 2015, 05:01:42 AM
I would agree, for those who really heard the gospel. However, not all have heard. ETrs have them burning forever too. Some of them even have little babies burning forever.
But the fact that those who have heard and refused and did not accept- even if they had enough time shouldnt automatically mean they will burn forever. How is that ETrs seem to think this is just and fair, that a person who refused the gospel should burn forever? Where did the idea that burning forever is the only just penalty for evry sinner from the least to the greatest come from anyway?
It takes a really distorted mentality to see God as pleased, and the saints content, throughout an eternity with the unending screams of souls burning alive in the foreground.
Such a god is a monstrosity, and the preaching of that monster is one of the greatest stumbling blocks there is in the world.
Indeed. But Et'ers will say that sinning against an infinite God demands an infinite penalty. I still don't see how that means God is just. :sigh:
QuoteIndeed. But Et'ers will say that sinning against an infinite God demands an infinite penalty. I still don't see how that means God is just. 
In a a nice way, my answer to that is, says who? Who made up that rule? What rule of logic does that conform to? To me when people says that, they're trying to make it looks like a rule of logic when it isn't, by using the word "infinite" twice to make it appear that it balances like a math equation. Weak. God is bound to no such rule.
Ask them to read the Bible, His Word and should they find evidence of such a thought as, "Indeed. But Et'ers will say that sinning against an infinite God demands an infinite penalty. I still don't see how that means God is just. "
If you must.... lead them to 1Jn 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
Seems to me an ETers out look is, see how good I am and see how bad you are, God is going to make you pay because you would not listen, and well I'll get a pat on the back. :2c:

Quote from: micah7:9 on February 26, 2015, 04:59:55 AM
Ask them to read the Bible, His Word and should they find evidence of such a thought as, "Indeed. But Et'ers will say that sinning against an infinite God demands an infinite penalty. I still don't see how that means God is just. "
If you must.... lead them to 1Jn 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
Seems to me an ETers out look is, see how good I am and see how bad you are, God is going to make you pay because you would not listen, and well I'll get a pat on the back. :2c:
If sinning against an infinite God demands an infinite penalty, then the central reason for creation is punishment, the ultimate effect of God's righteousness is destruction, and sin triumphs over salvation, as the impotent cross of Christ crumbles into the flames of hell, lost to the consciousness of a multitude of beings formed from the beginning for the purpose of demonstrating how terrible a god is YHWH, the infinite punisher.
The truth is, sinning against an infinite God reveals the infinite love of God and the infinite vision of Jesus,
"If I am lifted up from the earth, I will draw all men unto me"

[/quote]
:iagree:
Too, it seems to me that if the infinite punishment position were true, then Jesus would still be in a state of death, yet somehow kept alive to endure a merciless torture endlessly for the sins of the whole world.
And as terrible as death is, that is -all- that it is. To borrow a contemporary phrase... " It is what it is." The wages of sin is death etc.
Take it back to the garden....death.
All of that infinite punishment doctrine has just been added to God`s own words.
Besides the resurrection, of course, part of the very good news itself that Paul preached was that Jesus ---> died. And He had to actually dismiss, give up, send away his spirit to do that, to die. This, in and of itself...was a miracle really.
Jesus satisfied everything which was necessary to fulfil God`s will; He was sent to do God`s will. He said from the cross that it was accomplished. He didn`t say that he had a few more things to do that would take an infinite amount of time. :)
adders poison of the original serpent...first he said 'surely you will not die[all in Adam say 'LIAR!" now he's saying God will
destroy forever or eternally torment fallen man, totally disallowing Christ's redemption work of drawing all men up to return
unto the Father from the grave[dead in sin and trespass].
Quote from: Eduard on February 25, 2015, 08:38:56 PM
Quote from: eaglesway on February 24, 2015, 05:01:42 AM
I would agree, for those who really heard the gospel. However, not all have heard. ETrs have them burning forever too. Some of them even have little babies burning forever.
But the fact that those who have heard and refused and did not accept- even if they had enough time shouldnt automatically mean they will burn forever. How is that ETrs seem to think this is just and fair, that a person who refused the gospel should burn forever? Where did the idea that burning forever is the only just penalty for evry sinner from the least to the greatest come from anyway?
It takes a really distorted mentality to see God as pleased, and the saints content, throughout an eternity with the unending screams of souls burning alive in the foreground.
Such a god is a monstrosity, and the preaching of that monster is one of the greatest stumbling blocks there is in the world.
Indeed. But Et'ers will say that sinning against an infinite God demands an infinite penalty. I still don't see how that means God is just. :sigh:
That's an ET claim that's not found in the Bible. That gives me a liberty to state a counter claim...
Sinning against a infinite mercyful and loving God is just a detour to eternal life
Quote from: Psalm91:4 on February 26, 2015, 12:17:25 PM
:iagree:
Too, it seems to me that if the infinite punishment position were true, then Jesus would still be in a state of death, yet somehow kept alive to endure a merciless torture endlessly for the sins of the whole world.
And as terrible as death is, that is -all- that it is. To borrow a contemporary phrase... " It is what it is." The wages of sin is death etc.
Take it back to the garden....death.
All of that infinite punishment doctrine has just been added to God`s own words.
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Quote from: marie glen on February 26, 2015, 08:53:11 PM
Quote from: Psalm91:4 on February 26, 2015, 12:17:25 PM
:iagree:
Too, it seems to me that if the infinite punishment position were true, then Jesus would still be in a state of death, yet somehow kept alive to endure a merciless torture endlessly for the sins of the whole world.
And as terrible as death is, that is -all- that it is. To borrow a contemporary phrase... " It is what it is." The wages of sin is death etc.
Take it back to the garden....death.
All of that infinite punishment doctrine has just been added to God`s own words.
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :dsunny:
So then...a 90 year old mand on hes death bed FINALLY turns oves hes life to christ. He has layed with over 200-diffetent women. Done drungs, gamble...had 4 divorces...lived a gambles life to the last...but because he NOW turn to christ.Jesus cannot punish him in ANY WAY! Even if he murdered someone. Even if Christ HIMSELF talked against divorce!
But now Jesus "must" forgive him! Because those are the RULES according to our beloved King James bible version. Even if the word Kolasis originally meant a CORRECTIVE punishment! Even if thats where the word CORRECTION originally came to the English language!
But a 25-year old kid dies in a car crash. Was too busy partying and having fun.
Guess the old man got the best of him...i mean...getting layed with over 200-women...and after all that going STRAIGHT TO HEAVEN!
Gotta love it how Jesus works! Really easy play him around isn't it? Just have time my conversion just right :rocker :first: :bowing:
What is this JonesHenry ?
Is this your logical reasoning about UR ?
We are all measured by what we KNOW OF GOD
GODS WORD judges every last one of us
shame of our nakedness will expose us just as in the garden when Adam ''hid '' from God
But saw his error and shame
no one fools God !
Everything Adam did was dead works to GOD because the day he ate of the tree of knowledge of good and evil he was dead in every act the spiritual sense of the Word , he was displeasing to God , no flesh please God he lost his first love being the son of God 's eye and spiritual place
GOD SAID , the DAY you eat of it , you die !
Adam as in all mankind is dead because we all are in Adam first this error /sin missing the mark /trespass was inherited to all of us
what good does it do to have everything the world offers us and still empty and miserable and still needy and dark and void of KNOWING Gods Spirit in you
The very thing allowing you life in the first place , you deny it any recognition at all !!
But living for yourself as if you are your own little god in the earth ?
I do believe God lets you go off and try everything in the world as the prodigal son did as selfish , but He sure come home beat up and humbled and ashamed for wasting all the things His Father gave him to do good with for others as well as himself being blessed in this world
You see I think if the old man knew anything about God that WORD will judge him and He will be sooo ashamed before God and everything he done was for nothing , he alone is saved but has no glory of God to speak about
God was longsuffering with that man to repent and change the mind to the mind of Christ that is obedience to the desire of God , but if he passed on that life changing event he will surly know it than when He stands before the judgment and account of what did you do with this life I gave you ?
the 25 YEAR old will also be shown exactly what he would have done and become of his life GOD IS FAIR to everything He created
we are ALL His own creation Being the good and evil and comparing it to the the PERFECT is His to judge accordingly
the intents of the heart , the Word says be Perfect as you Father in heaven is perfect / complete and entire without lack of anything whatsoever
we will all be shown our lack , and how humbling this will be , so many regret to try harder to please God and not themselves in this earthly realm /world
Hi JH , :friendstu:
Please read Roman 8 this should help show what it is meant by living in the now by the Spirit or by the flesh and the quality of life we posses and can posses in Jesus Christ Life Christ life is an endless Life :HeartThrob: http://www.thesaurus.com/browse/endless
Rose...I think JH was just trying to show the convoluted reasoning of their doctrine........
Quote from: sheila on May 09, 2015, 05:19:30 PM
Rose...I think JH was just trying to show the convoluted reasoning of their doctrine........
OK Sis , it was the last part that had me fooled when he said ,
QuoteGotta love it how Jesus works! Really easy play gim around isn't it? Just have time my conversion just right :rocker :first: :bowing:
:flowerred:
Quote from: JonesHenry on May 09, 2015, 03:35:48 PM
So then...a 90 year old mand on hes death bed FINALLY turns oves hes life to christ. He has layed with over 200-diffetent women. Done drungs, gamble...had 4 divorces...lived a gambles life to the last...but because he NOW turn to christ.Jesus cannot punish him in ANY WAY! Even if he murdered someone. Even if Christ HIMSELF talked against divorce!
But now Jesus "must" forgive him! Because those are the RULES according to our beloved King James bible version. Even if the word Kolasis originally meant a CORRECTIVE punishment! Even if thats where the word CORRECTION originally came to the English language!
But a 25-year old kid dies in a car crash. Was too busy partying and having fun.
Guess the old man got the best of him...i mean...getting layed with over 200-women...and after all that going STRAIGHT TO HEAVEN!
Gotta love it how Jesus works! Really easy play him around isn't it? Just have time my conversion just right :rocker :first: :bowing:
Go and re-read the parable of the workers in the field and the man who paid them all the same, even though some had worked all day and some for only an hour. If you lived a straight life all your life, you should not be protesting that the death-bed convert is granted the same salvation as you, but just be glad of your own salvation. God's blessing to others is not a curse to you.
good save Laz...that flew right by me. the elder son that was offended when the prodigal come home.
Jones....I have to read and reread..your posts..and find them hard to understand what you are really saying at times. :girlheart:
well said , Laz :HeartThrob:
Many people who believe in ET do so, becuase they were taught it as Biblical truth since they were a child. They are also taught that if they question it they are questioning God himself and that doing so is a sin of pride. They are taught we all deserve hell and that makes salvation from it even of a much greater mercy. Deserving hell, but getting eternal life just for accepting Jesus. They believe they have to accept the doctrine or they are rejecting God himself.
Many of them are afraid to even allow themselves to doubt it. Also they are blinded at cant help what they believe until the Holy Spirit opens thier eyes. Many of them are tormented by the doctrine, but feel they have no choice but to accept it. They need are prayers and to be shown Gods love.
Quote from: JonesHenry on May 09, 2015, 03:35:48 PM
So then...a 90 year old mand on hes death bed FINALLY turns oves hes life to christ. He has layed with over 200-diffetent women. Done drungs, gamble...had 4 divorces...lived a gambles life to the last...but because he NOW turn to christ.Jesus cannot punish him in ANY WAY! Even if he murdered someone. Even if Christ HIMSELF talked against divorce!
But now Jesus "must" forgive him! Because those are the RULES according to our beloved King James bible version. Even if the word Kolasis originally meant a CORRECTIVE punishment! Even if thats where the word CORRECTION originally came to the English language!
But a 25-year old kid dies in a car crash. Was too busy partying and having fun.
Guess the old man got the best of him...i mean...getting layed with over 200-women...and after all that going STRAIGHT TO HEAVEN!
Gotta love it how Jesus works! Really easy play him around isn't it? Just have time my conversion just right :rocker :first: :bowing:
I can't help thinking someone who has wasted their life in wasteful living.. perhaps alienated and lost loved ones.. even children alienated or never known.. I can't help thinking such a one may have some regrets even when first arriving in the Kingdom after resurrection (1st resurrection of all believers).. As opposed to the blessedness of someone living a life faithful to the wife of his youth and raising children and being blessed with grand children, and living a life as much as he could for the Lord, goes to his grave full of days.. And I believe their is reward for the faithful.. and some lack of reward(?) say for the servant who hid his master's talent..? kolasis?
:dontknow: :smile:
Quote from: Caffus on May 10, 2015, 06:45:42 AM
Many people who believe in ET do so, becuase they were taught it as Biblical truth since they were a child. They are also taught that if they question it they are questioning God himself and that doing so is a sin of pride. They are taught we all deserve hell and that makes salvation from it even of a much greater mercy. Deserving hell, but getting eternal life just for accepting Jesus. They believe they have to accept the doctrine or they are rejecting God himself.
Many of them are afraid to even allow themselves to doubt it. Also they are blinded at cant help what they believe until the Holy Spirit opens thier eyes. Many of them are tormented by the doctrine, but feel they have no choice but to accept it. They need are prayers and to be shown Gods love.
amen.. even if it is so illogical.. (especially when so many have died with out ever hearing about Jesus)
it's sad hearing a preacher or believer trying to put `hell` in a good light.. :sigh: But I agree, they are `being faithful` to the gospel they heard and have been taught.. :smile:
Quote from: Caffus on May 10, 2015, 06:45:42 AM
Many people who believe in ET do so, becuase they were taught it as Biblical truth since they were a child. They are also taught that if they question it they are questioning God himself and that doing so is a sin of pride. They are taught we all deserve hell and that makes salvation from it even of a much greater mercy. Deserving hell, but getting eternal life just for accepting Jesus. They believe they have to accept the doctrine or they are rejecting God himself.
Many of them are afraid to even allow themselves to doubt it. Also they are blinded at cant help what they believe until the Holy Spirit opens thier eyes. Many of them are tormented by the doctrine, but feel they have no choice but to accept it. They need are prayers and to be shown Gods love.
Yes Caffus , I totally agree with you :thumbsup: , and for a time that is good because it does ''hold back sin '' in the sense of this
Fear and torment of hell and death worded in Rev 20 as such .
For me this is , just those teaching nor listeners
understanding the power of JESUS CHRIST CROSS , and how he '' took away '' that fear by LOVE
GIVING HIMSELF for us , He laid down His life , none took it from Him He willingly did this loving act , to prove , He is the one now in power , satan has
no toe hold on death or punishment to sinners any longer , it is in the Lords hands , the keys of hell and death are His and He is the one who frees us
sinners and releases the debt owed , so we now belong to Him , not death any longer as we were before Knowing the power of Jesus Christ love and
sacrifice of Himself for us all , all humanity is His
Now to show this kind of Love back to Jesus , the perfect bond of Love expressed ,
we love Him and love others because He loves them too even if they are enemies ,
as we once were to the Cross of Jesus Christ . The Cross is the , pivotal point of turning everything around and unveiling of Jesus Christ
Death cannot destroy nor hold them prisoner any longer as in times past , because Jesus come to destroy death by LIFE IN HIMSELF the Victory is WON in Jesus Christ
Jesus can turn you around , as we walk in the world to the broad path that leads to destruction and loss
We Follow His example and VOICE , as the Spirit of Love speaks to us and we hear in our ear what the Spirit is saying , and do it .
If it is to leave alone, we do not touch it nor handle it , nor taste it ,
being death or anything of the world offerings , a temporary pleasure ,
If it is to eat His body and drink His blood that we may have more of His life in us we do that .. Obedience is the KEY that even the hell and death cannot prevail against His Life in us as we do follow after Him !!! :HeartThrob:
I agree to Caffus, Rosered. That's why prayer for the gospel of God to go out and set the captives free should be a primary mission for all of us who have been set free :o)
"Lord we ask that you send laborers into the harvest, and anoint them to be removers of veils and breakers of chains" \o/
Quote from: eaglesway on May 11, 2015, 02:51:23 AM
I agree to Caffus, Rosered. That's why prayer for the gospel of God to go out and set the captives free should be a primary mission for all of us who have been set free :o)
"Lord we ask that you send laborers into the harvest, and anoint them to be removers of veils and breakers of chains" \o/
Amen and amen Bro John , totally agree :HeartThrob:
Yeah, the problem is it just doesn't make sense that anybody who hasn't "accepted" Jesus gets tortured in fire forever because a whole lot of folks lived and died before Jesus was even around, and there are even some folks living today who haven't heard about him. So there's no way a righteous God would hold all those folks responsible for something that was impossible to do. I agree folks believe that nonsense because they've been programmed from their youth just like most of us here on the forum were, and that's why we have to keep speaking the truth in love so they at least hear it. Then it's up to them to check it out more and decide if they want to believe it. It's hard for folks to give up old tradition though. I just told my brothers and sister about it again this weekend. I hope my sister took it to heart because I think her husband died as an unbeliever.