Getting swarmed in a debate

[Paul Hazelwood]

oh, I saw now where it can be reopened if you are ready to make a case.  I will have to read through the whole thing when I get time.

From just a few reads , you will simply have to state your case and move on.

When one person maintains that the word in a translation is the only way a word is used, (the word many is not the only use of "PAS") you first have to try to educate someone about word usage when it comes to scripture.   That will only lead to them saying you haven't made your case.

So if you intend to get the thread reopened,  you probably should consider all of their poor arguments and include them in one post so as to present the case and show why their porr arguments are not valid against any biblical doctrinal position.

Such as an argument that says if God will save everyone anyway, there is no reason for Jesus.  and the argument one used that demanded you show a verse that tells of an escape from the lake of fire.

The poster wants you to show a verse that contradicts an asserted belief, when that issue is a matter of word meaning.   If it is shown through scripture that God will correct all, then there is no assumption or use of any word that demands someone will remain in the lake of fire endlessly, it is redundant and a poor pattern of words.

They may not believe God will correct all, but when placed in that context, they cannot reasonably argue that you must show a verse stating something scripturally obvious.

However, being reasonable isn't always something to expect from others who are having their traditional beliefs challenged, so that is why I say, make one post stating your case and move on.

[Paul Hazelwood]

The thread looks closed.

http://www.christianwebsite.com/forum/showthread.php?s=1ea3b1547eb194dade605074cfa9c7e9&t=3708&page=29

ah, ok

[Paul Hazelwood]

They already deleted the username I registered with.   Not surprising.

[Paul Hazelwood]

LOL I was banned before I even posted anything, in the thread the Roy dude talks about Gabriels supporters and tracking ips.

[Molly]

Gabe needs some scriptural support over there but they won't let me in either.  They said to add 777 to your name so I tried that and that didn't work either.
Every part of me is banned before I even start.

What is this?  I thought we had the keys to the gates of hell...  :laughing7:

[WhiteWings]

LOL I was banned before I even posted anything, in the thread the Roy dude talks about Gabriels supporters and tracking ips.

Keys of the dark site/side
http://proxify.com/
http://hidemyass.com/
http://www.web300.info/
http://proxy.org/

[Samuel Cripps]

For those trying to register:

    In an effort to combat the seemingly endless spammers, CWS is instituting a new policy. All new members MUST include the numbers '777' in their username: thus, if your chosen username is 'JohnDoe', you must select '777JohnDoe', or 'JohnDoe777'. This will help us to sort out the automated spambots, and the human-assisted spambots whose humans don't read before registering. After registering, your username can be changed by contacting any Moderator via PM. Thanks for your understanding.

Tell your buddies who are trying to join, to check their spam folders; automated emails are sometimes filtered.
If they get a message that their email is banned, they can click the 'Contact Us' link, at the bottom of any page. I'll help them get registered. They'll need to include their requested username, a valid email address, and their IP address in the message

[Nathan]

Be sure to armor up first . . . they seem to embrace warfare over rest over there.

[Samuel Cripps]

They are accusing me of lying over there, and I was told more than once that I'm the child of Satan.     


Fascinating.....

[Samuel Cripps]

The discussion seems to have been moved here:

http://www.christianwebsite.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3718

I hope to see more of you there.

[jabcat]

I personally cant have ongoing participation in situations like that.  I hope you don't get too hurt over there.  I often can only make a statement or two and move on - they either hear it, or God hasn't given the desire and ability to see yet.  Take care over there, it sounds mean.

[Samuel Cripps]

I understand, jabcat. 

[jabcat]

concerned for you, brother.  depending on what your ministry is, stay as long as you're led.  but even Jesus said if they won't hear you, shake the dust from your feet and move on.  blessings.

[Paul Hazelwood]

You also have to be aware that the moderators expect members to agree with them.

I see there the lake of fire thread was closed because the thread starter declared Gabriel refuted and then  requested it to be closed.

I might see if I can skirt around the ban and post a few things, to see what happens.

[Samuel Cripps]

Paul, did you see my post where I quote some pertinent registration information?

[Paul Hazelwood]

Paul, did you see my post where I quote some pertinent registration information?

Yes I see it now, I will try some time this evening to get set up.   

[jabcat]

I saw where they were pushing for "one verse that shows people leaving the Lake of Fire".

And the city has no need of sun or moon, for the glory of God illuminates the city, and the Lamb is its light. 24 The nations will walk in its light, and the kings of the world will enter the city in all their glory. 25 Its gates will never be closed at the end of day because there is no night there. 26 And all the nations [the kings of the earth] will bring their treasures into the city.  Rev. 21      (the ecclesia will be kings, helping bring in the rest).   :2c:

[Samuel Cripps]

jabcat, can you explain how this passage is suggesting that people leave the lake of fire?

[jabcat]

ha!  I was just adding some things/editing as you posted this.    As I understand, this is a picture either after or during Lake of Fire (I believe during, because I personally believe God is either the Lake of Fire [our God's a consuming Fire] and/or the Lake of Fire is His direct Presence/the spiritual condition He sets for repentance.)    So I see this as possibly saying as people repent and confess (every knee bowing, every tongue confessing Jesus is Lord, which can only be done (lit. trans.) IN the Holy Spirit, and anyone who calls on the Lord will be saved), i.e., "leave the Lake of Fire/Its direct influence", so then the ecclesia who are called out and saved in this liftime, described as ruling and reigning with Christ (shepherding the nations) are bringing converts (treasures) into the Holy City.  The gates are always open!

[jabcat]

Also, as Molly pointed out earlier, the leaves of the tree of life are healing the nations.  I see this as the process just prior to Christ handing all over to the Father and God becoming All in All.  Of course most ET'ers won't see it, but more of the picture of the consummation occurs elsewhere besides Rev. -  the "each in his own order" verses.

[Pierac]

jabcat, can you explain how this passage is suggesting that people leave the lake of fire?

The lake of fire is a metaphor that is no more literal than "Jesus taking bread... saying, "Take, Eat. This IS MY body"  :wink1:


Paul

[Samuel Cripps]

jabcat,

Great thoughts. 

Are you not at all inclined to go there and join the discussion?

[jabcat]

I agree Paul.  Our God is a consuming Fire is not saying God is what we would literally see when a house is burning down.  His presence is fire - cleansing, creating movement, changing from one form to another - nothing can stay the same in His presence.

Samuel, thanks, I hope it helps.  My personality is such that I'm probably better on those type of sites planting seeds and moving on, hopefully getting people to thinking a bit.  Maybe you, people like PaulHazelwood, Taffy, legoman, etc. are better at being in those situations where you've got to be able to let the bullets bounce off without hardly noticing and keep on trudging.  I over-think things, wonder what makes people tick, get too consumed with the emotion and process of things to be very effective on those sites where people are just intent on arguing and "winning".  I need to not get too caught up with that, as I get distracted, side-tracked, and struggle with other aspects of it besides just sticking with what needs to be said.  I need to let "cooler heads prevail".   :laughing7:

Hopefully I can be a help and support back here at "home base".   :bigGrin: 

[Molly]

25 Its gates will never be closed at the end of day because there is no night there.
--Rev 21

The gates of the holy city will NEVER be closed...

This is a double negative [and we all know how they love double negatives lol]" ou mē " strengthening the denial--never--in no case--will never never be closed--

And this is the chapter after those are cast into the lake of fire, chapter 21.  There are still those outside the city [in the lake of fire? yes. in the dark? yes] in chapter 22.

15For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
--Rev 22

But no matter because the gates of the holy city are not and never ever [double negative] will be closed, and [new]'kings' of the earth are walking through the gates daily [ch 21] as they are washed in the blood of the Lamb.  And, Jesus is calling all--

the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
--Rev 22

This is happening right now as we speak, [and will continue into the ages,] for judgment begins at the house of God.



Tell them to keep reading after chapter 20.  Keep reading.

[Samuel Cripps]

Jabcat, I totally understand.  Perhaps they might benefit were you to plant a couple seeds.   :bigGrin:  I know, I'm relentless.  Lol.


Molly,

Excellent thoughts. I take it you caught Benjie's hang up on the double negative?  LOL.     What do you say, molly?  come lend me a hand over there.