Gehenna - Early Beliefs

[jabcat]

This is an excerpt from the TM Homepage, here;  http://www.tentmaker.org/books/Fulfilled_Prophecy/Ch5.html

It was to that very generation of sinful people that God was coming. The words "sinful" and "adulterous" are key words that let us know that the subjects of God's actions here are the unbelieving Jews. Only those who had the Law could be judged by it (and so be found sinful). It was the Jewish nation, once holy and set apart from all other human cultures, that had acted as a religious prostitute in accepting outside cultures, religious influences, and business practices, and by becoming entangled in legalism and worldliness, losing the heart of their religion.
This is why Jerusalem is pictured as a prostitute or harlot in the 17th and 18th chapters of Revelation. The great city (representing the entire nation) is pictured or symbolized as a woman who is:
"Full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication...the mother of harlots... drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus..."
[Revelation 17:4-6]
The formal Jewish religion had become nothing but an empty and decaying shell of the glorious thing it once was, and it was persecuting and murdering God's true people, the followers of Christ. God was going to bring about its destruction within the lifetimes of some of those disciples that Jesus spoke with. Revelation 18:8 –

"Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her."
Now it is made plain to us what Jesus meant by "rewarding every man according to his works" at the time of this coming. All those whose works consisted of choosing not to believe in the Christ would perish in the war and they would be eternally lost to God. (Tentmaker Ministries believes this view is in error. No one is "eternally lost." The Greek word "aionios" an adjective of "aion" means a period of time in which the end is not in view, it does not mean eternally.) Those who chose to follow Jesus would be aware of the warning signs of the coming conflict and so escape it. Revelation 18:4 –
"And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues."

The judgment that was to be delivered was also a part and parcel of this prophecy. Christ promised to enact this judgment when he came in his kingdom.
If the kingdom has come, then so has the judgment! In 1 Peter 4:17, Peter states:
"For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God, and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?"

This judgment is, of course, not limited to the Jewish nation of the first century. It is a "general" judgment on all human beings that continues today for us. Christ began immediately to reward men for their works – specifically, their works of accepting and obeying Christ in the first place as opposed to denying him and returning to the Judaism or paganism from whence they came. If their works in this regard were positive, they were – and are – rewarded with eternal life and contact with God (1 John 5:13).

On a ongoing basis, then, this judgment requires that all Christians must continue in works of righteousness rather than evil in order to stay in contact with God and remain in his Kingdom (1 John 3:9-10;5:18). Our acts of righteousness could never, of course, bring about our salvation. Christ's sacrifice for sin did that. Our acts of sin, however, certainly do judge us, and this is an ongoing judgment that began with Christ's spiritual return (for he is the High Priest and Judge in his Kingdom). Fortunately for us, our Judge is a merciful and loving one, and he will listen to our true repentance and will forgive us if we fail (1 John 2:1).
Matthew said that the event the disciples would live to see was Christ "coming in his Kingdom," and Mark said "till they have seen the Kingdom of God come with power." Does this mean that the Kingdom itself did not come into being until that event in A.D. 70? No, all the verses after the gospels that speak of the Kingdom, speak of it as established – something that all the Christian brethren were a part of. As we have seen, it had been completely established on the Day of Pentecost.

In these verses, Jesus did not say that he was coming to bring his Kingdom, instead, he was coming in his Kingdom. God and the Kingdom of God (which is God and all his peoples, and which represents all of his power) was coming in vengeance against the common enemy to destroy that enemy.
This is why, in Mark, he speaks of coming "with his angels," and coming "with power" and "in the glory of his Father." These terms are typical symbolic words found in all of the similar prophecies of the destruction of Judea, and their use here by Jesus shows us that this is the subject of this "coming."

1 CORINTHIANS 15:22-26. verses 22-24:
"For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Then cometh the end..."
Here is the great promise and hope of Christianity – the gift of eternal life with God. In this passage, Paul states the order of events. First, Christ gained eternal life when he took up his own life and returned, spiritually, to God the Father at the ascension. Second, "they that are Christ's" – the Christian disciples – received eternal life when they were baptized after Christ's coming to them on Pentecost. Then, says Paul, "comes the end." The end of what?

It was the end of the legal, religious, and social world that they all were living under–the world of the Jewish Law.

[WhiteWings]

Jesus warned the people against the doctrine of the Pharisees, who are well known to have believed in endless punishment. Matt 16:6; compare verse 12. There is no doubt, that the doctrines of the Pharisees were of a partial nature. Jesus was impartial in his teachings. He was the friend of publicans and sinners, and for this the Pharisees hated him. This was the great point on which he differed from the Pharisees. Their doctrine peculiarly was a doctrine of cruelty, wrath, and partiality; his was a doctrine of love, compassion, and universal grace. No person, who will make the comparison fairly, can avoid coming to this result. Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees.

==> Can some explain those verses? I see no mentioning of cruelty, wrath and partiality in them...

Jesus reproved the Pharisees for shutting up the kingdom of heaven. "Woe into you, Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men; for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in." (Matt. 23:13) These Pharisees were never charged with having shut up the kingdom of hell; that, they appear to have kept open. But they shut up the kingdom of heaven. Jesus desired to have all men enjoy his kingdom; and we are assured, that, at last, all shall know the Lord, from the least unto the greatest. They will then all have entered the gospel kingdom.

[jabcat]

 :thumbsup:

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: That "generation of vipers" still exists, spiritually speaking; they are as the poison of the asp under the tongue that continually reproduces it's nature if left to do so. This is the the tongue no man can tame. You can't tame a viper, to keep it from biting you; you can only cut it's head off. Out of the abundance of the HEART, the mouth speaks. Blessings....

[jabcat]

Yes Card, I believe this is one of those instances (of MANY  :bigGrin:) where there's a primary, contextual meaning, then ongoing spiritual applications.  (As is much if not most of the scriptures, IMO - those different, deeper layers).  I'm just encouraging that the primary setting be considered in this Gehenna discussion.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Gotcha....but you know me....always "reading the fine print", LOL.....Blessings...

[shawn]

Jesus warned the people against the doctrine of the Pharisees, who are well known to have believed in endless punishment. Matt 16:6; compare verse 12. There is no doubt, that the doctrines of the Pharisees were of a partial nature. Jesus was impartial in his teachings. He was the friend of publicans and sinners, and for this the Pharisees hated him. This was the great point on which he differed from the Pharisees. Their doctrine peculiarly was a doctrine of cruelty, wrath, and partiality; his was a doctrine of love, compassion, and universal grace. No person, who will make the comparison fairly, can avoid coming to this result. Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees.

==> Can some explain those verses? I see no mentioning of cruelty, wrath and partiality in them...

Jesus reproved the Pharisees for shutting up the kingdom of heaven. "Woe into you, Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men; for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in." (Matt. 23:13) These Pharisees were never charged with having shut up the kingdom of hell; that, they appear to have kept open. But they shut up the kingdom of heaven. Jesus desired to have all men enjoy his kingdom; and we are assured, that, at last, all shall know the Lord, from the least unto the greatest. They will then all have entered the gospel kingdom.

What was the word the Pharisees used as the place for endless torture?

[jabcat]

According to Dr. Harold Lovelace, after Jesus had condemned the Pharisees to "hell" in Matthew 23, He then, told them that they would not see him again UNTIL they said, "blessed is he that comes in
the name of the Lord"!!!   (that's called repentance from "hell"!!!)

This first occurrence of Gehenna in the New Testament should immediately cast the popular notion of hell in a suspicious light. The verse makes almost no sense and stands as an enigma if the popular notions of the meaning of Gehenna are true. What possible logical reason is there, and what type of mental justification can we make for the differences in punishment for saying 'Raca', on the one hand, and 'thou fool' on the other, that one should be punishable by being brought before the Sanhedrin, and the other eternal conscious torment in flames for all eternity ?
What the reader is never told is that the progression of punishment described was the known judicial law of Jesus day.  Gehenna Fire denotes simply the most severe form of punishment the judicial system could inflict: not only death, but to deny one proper burial and cast them into the garbage dump signifying their unworthiness of a resurrection.

http://www.harvestherald.com/challenge.htm

[jabcat]

It appears this fellow believes in ET.  But even he makes the following statement -  "The Jewish Scriptures (the Christian's Old Testament), do not contain any specific teaching about Heaven and Hell, so there has always been more room in Judaism to speculate about what happens to people when they die." David Brown
AMF International 

[Oops  :happygrin:]


L. Ray Smith responding to John Hagee's sermon, "The Wonders of Hell".

Mr. Hagee - "Jesus believed in Hell."

Jesus never even said the word "hell" so how could He believe in it? Mark 9:46-- " ... to be cast into Gehenna, into the unextinguished fire, where their worm is not deceasing and the fire is not going out." This is not "hell." This is "Gehenna." So why call it "hell?" The exact Greek word is Ge'enna (in Hebrew it is: RAVINE-of-HINNOM). It is a ravine just below Jerusalem where the city waste was incinerated.

What justification is there in translating this ravine into the English word "hell?"

You're not " ... distinguishing the things that differ" (Phil. 1:10).

You are not " ... having a pattern of sound words" (II Tim. 1:13-14).

You are "adding to" the Word of God" (Rev. 22:18-19).

You are following the "traditions of men" (Col. 2:8).

The "ravine of hinnom" (Gehenna) was the city garbage dump in Jerusalem where the garbage was burned. And just like all garbage dumps, there were worms. The reason they didn't die out was because there was a constant supply of refuge being fed them.  Gehenna is a real place. This place existed at the time Jesus spoke these very words. It was burning with fire, with a daily supply of garbage, and a daily supply of worms to eat it. But if you go there today, it is not burning and there are no worms. This Gehenna is not eternal

How is it that learned men can so pervert and corrupt God's Word? There is not one word in either the Greek or Hebrew languages that means "a place where evil dead people suffer in fire for all eternity." What "exact" Greek or Hebrew word has such a meaning

"John 3:16: You perish in the place called Hell."

I'll quote John 3:16:

"For thus God loves the world, so that He gives His only-begotten Son, that everyone who is believing in Him should not be perishing, but may be having life eonian."

I'll quote it from the King James:

"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

I'm sorry, Mr. Hagee, but I don't see where John 3:16 says that: "You perish in the place called Hell?"

And how long is this ... to last? For all eternity? Get a concordance and read it. The Greek word translated in the Authorized Version "everlasting" is aionion. And I proved conclusively in the beginning of this letter that aionion means "age lasting" or "eonian," not eternally or everlasting.

[WhiteWings]

What was the word the Pharisees used as the place for endless torture?

I don't know Shawn. That's why I asked how to read the verses. It should be obvious; but not for me.
The only thing that hints to endless is "ye shut up the kingdom of heaven".