There has been some debate on whether the Word who became Jesus Christ was a created being or always existed with the God whom we know as Father.
Scriptures such as Gen. 1:1 and John 1:1 seem to imply that the Word always existed with God the Father. However, there are verses that imply that the One who became Jesus Christ was created.
1Co 8:6 (KJV) But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
1Co 8:6 (Concordant Literal Version) nevertheless for us there is one God, the Father, out of Whom all is, and we for Him, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through Whom all is, and we through Him."
And speaking about Jesus Christ:
Col 1:15 (KJV) Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Also, it is worth noting that in Gen. 1:1 and John 1:1 the article ?the? is not in the original inspired text, as in ?In the beginning?. These two verses do not connote an absolute beginning. In reality there are many beginnings during God?s work.
Any comments?
Confirmation bias is the idea that we seek to find evidence that confirms a thought we 'just had'. The thought is always made manifest in the heart and can only ever be confirmed dependent on what evidence aligns with the heart state. The heart decides whether it is right or wrong, truth or lie. Hence the Rhema always trumps the Logos. Of course, ones way or living has to be 'trained up', but even this can be done by listening and adjusting to the Rhema / revealed word.
In the same way Leopards cannot change their spots, there's no changing the heart of a man except it is ordained and breathed into them by The Rhema.
On a practical level, i find myself looking at our hens and asking 'has a chicken always been a chicken?'. And I don't feel it's necessary to form a view on that right now. The important point was to ask the question and be happy.
And I am glad that God was made manifest in Jesus, and that he intercedes for us. I would struggle much more without that narrative / revealed word to pierce my soul.
This is just my understanding.
God in the truest sense is the Father. The Son came from the Father, and all things were created through the Son, and apart from him not one thing was created that has been created. The Son is the Word of the Father, the expression of the invisible God. Every visible thing is a part of that expression, God didn't make a separate word. So I think if anything is 'created' then the Son has to be 'created'.
The Son is the image of the invisible God. An image has one glory that is of the thing that it describes and a separate glory of its own. A painting of a landscape describes the countryside it depicts, and it has certain qualities as a painting.
Eve came from Adam, like the Son came from the Father. The Eve is the glory of Adam, she represents the image and is characterised by an outward beauty. As the Son of God is the radiance of the Father, as well as the truth and wisdom.
Adam is the glory of God, he represents God, and according to stereotype, has a hidden beauty, in wisdom and strength, from these things come visible beauty. As the Father is a hidden God, from which the son comes. (disclaimer- referring to allegorical language, not literal definitions of sexes).
When two marry, they become one flesh, the Father and Son are one. The Son came not to do his will but the will of the Father who sent him. The fall of man is pictured by Adam being led by Eve, but she was meant to be his helper and the grater is meant to serve the lesser. She ate first and then handed him food to eat. He did her will. Humans are one with the flesh, because their one will, as the Son is one with the Father, because of their one will. And we must leave this 'father and mother', and be married to God, becoming single.
In Christ there is no male or female, therefore there is no male or female in the Father, because he is the express image of the Father. But 'God created man in his own image; he created him in the image of God; he created them male and female.' Humans are made in the image of Elohim (God plural) and not El (God singular). Man was made in the image of the image of God, (all that is, came through the Son). Hence why we have the likeness of God. We bear both the resemblance of the true image of God and the resemblance of the image itself.
Every man comes from a woman, but the Father is not called the Mother. The Father is the progenitor, the originator of the seed. That seed is the word. The expression of the Father. Now, he is the Son and not the wife or the daughter. The son inherits the same glory of his father, while a wife or a daughter has a separate glory. There are sons and daughters, and mothers and fathers, but God is Father and Son, as Ishmael could not remain in the same house as Issac, we can not bear both the glory of the Father and our own glory, or else we will love one and hate the other.
The Son came to do the will of the Father, while everyone else had each turned away, to do their own will, and serve the flesh, the image, the thing seen and not the invisible God. Jesus emptied himself, taking on the form of a slave, in the appearance of a human. There was no beauty in him that anyone should desire him, because he was the image of God, in his spirit, and that meant rejecting his own beauty.
so that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow--in heaven and on earth and under the earth--and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
For all to confess that Jesus is Lord to the Glory of the Father, means that all will recognise that Jesus is the expression of the will of the Father, the glory of the Father, and see in the Son, the face of the Father. In the visible, see the invisible God.
So I believe that the Son is the very expression of the Father. All living things express themselves, we know the Father is alive by his expression. If we think of a butterfly, we think of all the attributes that make up the butterfly, the Son is the attributes that make up God, life, wisdom, truth, beauty, etc.. All the attributes of the butterfly, are not the butterfly, but they are its attributes, so the Son is not the Father, but the expression of the Father. He is God in his ability to express God. But when we see a butterfly, we see its attributes, and we call it a butterfly. When we see the Son, we will see the Father, and call him God, to the glory of the Father.
The Son of God is not expressing himself, but he is expressing only the Father. I think he can be called created, but like the heart creates a heartbeat, he is the evidence of life.
We are said to have a common salvation. All is reconciled to God through the Son, into a full knowledge of God. Which coincides in an emptying of all that is unholy and does not express the glory of God. Everything which is unholy is in the heart. We are made holy by a renewing of our hearts, a washing of God's spirit, the spirit knows the mind of God, we have the mind of Christ, who is the head of the body, the expression of the Father.
The Father gave his name to the Son, and the Son gives his name to those who he is given. And the Son has been given everything.
"Imprint these words of mine on your hearts and minds, bind them as a sign on your hands, and let them be a symbol on your foreheads. -the dichotomy of visible and invisible. Kind of hard to explain, but this is what I believe. Created, yes in a sense, but an inevitable consequence of the existence of the Father.
My understanding is, pretty much the way you said it FatBird. One little thing I see, or think I see about this is. The Son was the only begotten Son and Jesus said he (John 16:27-28) "came out from God and verse 28 says "I came forth from the Father" Since he was the only begotten Son, I believe it was like a birth, I believe you did mention like Eve came from Adam? This is the way I see it also. the Son is part of the Father and he is the only one that is part of the Father.
Anyway, just my thoughts.
CHB
I myself view it in this way:
The Father being the mind of Christ
Christ being the heart of the Father
They work together as One
In the mind/heart as one, Wisdom/Love are one
If thought does not manifest the Word(s) of love from a Heart of grace (new covenant)
THEN
The thought is manifested as the word(s) of condemnation from a heart of law (old covenant)
Thought was always with God, it is God, and our Lord and Savior Christ Jesus is the manifestation of the invisible God (invisible thought)
The "Word became flesh" is just another way of saying "Thought became spoken" and since a spoken word is "subject to interpretation" that is the same as saying it is "subject to death"
But again, these are just my thoughts and my opinion, but seeing it in this way has helped me dramatically to watch what I say to others, to always speak love and refrain from words of condemnation
:2c: