I'd like to share this new video series that is a literal bible study supporting annihilationism: Literal World Age (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7o6UD4z4Xc&list=PLLXDYPS3qcxOJE3tbubeH8Ig8g-vl1wbI)
I think for many forum members here it will be unique to hear this study because it focuses on the Aramaic Gospel. I find the Aramaic and Greek are in harmony regarding the finite duration of torment. And likewise, they are in harmony on the perpetual nature of The Creator. :gimmefive:
note - 'peCRAPTA' is a result of the forum's language filter. Peshi tta is the best we can do :)
Quote from: jabcat on March 14, 2015, 04:48:07 AM
note - 'peCRAPTA' is a result of the forum's language filter. Peshi tta is the best we can do :)
:laugh:
In this Word Study forum devoted to original languages, I imagine that filter can do a little damn-age.
Here is the English transliteration of Pesh itta: pShyta. In Aramaic, it means "simple" or "straight", as we read in Matthew 6:22, "The lamp of the body is the eye. Therefore, if your eye will be pShyta ("straight"), also your whole body is filled with light."
At this point i would like to quote the book of Revelation.
"Behold, I come quickly. My reward is with me, to repay to each man according to his work. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Blessed are those who do his commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter in by the gates into the city. OUTSIDE ARE THE dogs, the sorcerers, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood. I, JESUS have sent my angel to testify these things to you for the assemblies. I am the root and the offspring of David; the Bright and Morning Star."
Revelation 22:12-16
7th day adventist will argue that they are out there just being consumded like the word Basanizo does literally mean.
http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/greek/kjv/basanizo.html
Or purify. Much again depends on the INTERPRETATION!
You know...in the Hebrew language the word Nefesh literally means ANIMATED CREATURE!
http://judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/8921/nefesh-neshama-and-ruach-as-words-for-soul
For example
"The SOUL that sinneth, it SHALL DIE!
Ezekiel 18:2
This LITERALLY MEANS "the animated CREATURE will die!"
So...JESUS himself says they are still out there. The 7th day adventist say they are "dying"
Personally...i tend to take Jesus word over the adventists.
Ok..lets try this again...
In Finish bible the word "ashes" in added into the this last sentence of the bible verse.
"I am the vine. You are the branches. He who remains in me and I in him, the same bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing. 6 If a man doesn't remain in me, he is thrown out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them, throw them into the fire, and they are burned(to ashes)"
Matthew 15:5-6
In greek word that would actually be spodos by the way!
http://biblehub.com/greek/4700.htm
Guess what...NOT FOUND in the original greek!
http://ebible.org/web
Ok, lets try this again...
"If your eye causes you to stumble, cast it out. It is better for you to enter into God's Kingdom with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into the Gehenna* of fire, 'where their worm doesn't die, and the fire is not quenched.' For everyone will be SALTED WITH FIRE, and every sacrifice will be seasoned with salt."
Mark 9:47-49
"He answered them, "He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man, the field is the world; and the good seed, these are the children of the Kingdom; and the darnel weeds are the children of the evil one. The enemy who sowed them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are angels. As therefore the darnel weeds are gathered up and burned with fire; so will it be at the end of this age. The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will gather out of his Kingdom all things that cause stumbling, and those who do iniquity, and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be WEEPING AND THE GNASHING OF TEETH! Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the Kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear. "
Matthew 13:37-43
Still no mentioning of the wicked being totall consumed and annialated!
Ofcourse i could be wrong, but Jesus loved to speak in parables!
I guess the big question is;what did he actually MEAN by all these parables!
Lets just remember one little thing shall we;
7th day adventist like to hang themselves to the good old "The soul that sinneth shall DIE!" And the "wages of sin is DEATH!"
The first 1 in Ezekiel is simply based on a translation error. The otherone is not really uttered untill Pauls letter to the Romans.
We will get to that later. Now ofcourse we must remember
"Yahweh God commanded the man, saying, "You may freely eat of every tree of the garden; but you shall not eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil; for in the day that you eat of it, you will SURELY DIE! "
Genesis 1:16-17
But then again Adam and Eve really DID DIE and then....
"At that time Michael will stand up, the great prince who stands for the children of your people; and there will be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time. At that time your people will be delivered, everyone who is found written in the book. Many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth will AWAKE, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and EVERLASTING CONTEMPT! Those who are wise will shine as the brightness of the expanse. Those who turn many to righteousness will shine as the stars forever and ever. But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end. Many will run back and forth, and knowledge will be increased."
Daniel 12:1-4
Again no mention of actual DEATH here! The Hebrew word for contempt comes from the root word Darone.
You know, some Hebrew words are just REALLY difficult to translate, but the word here would basicly mean;
GREAT DISGUST of a rotten, UNBURIED BODY!
(http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/zombie/images/e/ec/Zombie-Attack.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20150228174228)
YES! The word is related to a CORPSE. but again in Hebrew this simply means;shame and DISGUST!
I know 7th day adventist who translate it to basicly mean "dead like a COPRSE!
But this is NOT the Hebrew word for "death" Darone does not mean "death" or to "die"
Could this mean the GREAT SHAME if rising in the second resurrection knowing your going to be ANNIALATED!?
Yes...but the Hebrews were not that kind of people. They were rather straight forward with there thinking.
Straight as in Yasar;
http://gifkg.org/hebrewword/yasar.html
Righteous...that who walks hes path STRAIGHT!
If the wages of sin truly was PERMANENT death, i believe Daniel would have said so rather then just...shame and EVERLASTING contempt like a rottening COPRSE!
Sorry...but when it comes to the Hebrews...i do not believe they associated EVERLASTING SHAME AND DISGUST with simply being...DEAD!
No...that shoe doesent fit...atleast not for me!
Basicly the word meant great DISGUST and shame...like something really DISGUSTING!
If a Hebrew prophet wanted to say just "humilaition and DEATH!" Then he would have said so! The Hebrew PROPHETS in paticular hardly ever held back, when it come to "punishning" Israel...let alone the gentiles...on behalf of Yahweh! Why this all this mysterios talk of "greath shame" and "disgust" if there all just going to be ANNIALATED anyway :secret:
Great SHAME as in...
(http://petsadviser.supercopyeditors.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/how-to-wash-your-puppy.png)
A puppy thats about to be WASHED with Brimstone soap?
http://www.buzzle.com/articles/sulfur-soap.html
"Behold, I send my messenger, and he will prepare the way before me; and the Lord, whom you seek, will suddenly come to his temple; and the messenger of the covenant, whom you desire, behold, he comes!" says Yahweh of Armies. "But who can endure the day of his coming? And who will stand when he appears? For he is like a REFINERS FIRE, and like launderers' SOAP;and he will sit as a REFINER AND PURIFIER of silver, and he will purify the sons of Levi, and refine them as gold and silver; and they shall offer to Yahweh offerings in RIGHTEOUSNESS!"
Malachi 3:1-3
So there is first DEATH & AFTER THAT a resurrection!
Lets keep this in mind before we wonder off any furder.
Again...it's up to the reader to DECIDE!
Personally im only willing to believe it, IF God says so!
You know, Paul says that the wages of sin is DEATH! This is something that 7th day adventists just LOVE to quote!
"For the wages of sin is DEATH but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."
Romans 6:23
You know...he does say a lot of other stuff too :girlheart:
"That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of ALL MEN, and ESPECIALLY those who believe."
1 Timothy 4:10
"For as in Adam ALL DIE, so in Christ will ALL BE MADE ALIVE!"
1 Corinthians 15:22
"Hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his SPIRIT MAY BE SAVED saved on the day of the Lord!"
1 Corinthians 5:5
At wich point do we start taking the bible literally?
Do old testament writings and traditions AUTOMATICLY overide the new testament warnings and promises?
"For, behold, Yahweh will come with fire,
and his chariots will be like the whirlwind;
to render his anger with fierceness,
and his rebuke with flames of fire.
For Yahweh will execute judgment by fire and by his sword on ALL FLESH;
and those slain by Yahweh will be many. "
Isiah 66:15-16
"I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that FLESH AND BLOOD cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable."
1 Corinthians 15:50
Paul vs Isiah! Wanna pick a "winner" :footmouth:
Ok, lets try this again one more time folks!
Eternal punishment = Kolasis Aionios =age lasting CORRECTION!
Doesent sound too much about annialation now does it?
I mean if Jesus just wanted to say "age lasting destruction" then he could have said "Oletrhos Aionios", and it would have been done away with! Why all this secrecy with using general words like "punishment"
But then...i could be wrong :sigh:
You know...in the book of revelation John doesent use the greek words for desctructioin at all.
That is
Oletrhos = to RUIN!
Apollumi = to get LOST!
Apoleia= to utterly DESTROY!
Instead he just says this is the SECOND DEATH!
"The cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars – their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the SECOND DEATH"
Revelation 21:8
Where have i heared that before :blush:
"We were therefore buried with him through baptism onto DEATH in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life."
Romans 6:4
What is the second death? I will give yet another two hints to solve the puzzle!
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/12/141202-urban-insects-food-garbage-cities-animals-science
http://www.buzzle.com/articles/uses-of-sulfur.html
Annihilation is one thing to believe in. I guess you should ask yourself...is it truly biblical?
Does JESUS warn about it, and if so...how often?
You know...if someone preaches that the wages of sin if indeed ETERNAL DEATH...should it not be Jesus himself, who came to save the WHOLE WORLD!?
"For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the WORLD, but to save the WORLD through him."
John 3:17
WOW! Does the "world" there really mean the WHOLE WORLD or is he yet AGAIN speaking in some STRANGE figurative language, wich you cannoit easily make surden of without the guidance of the Holy Spirit...or being some kind of a super-uber-duber translator of the bible, or something?
I mean...the people of Israel were going to LITERALLY attack him...stone him, spit at him and HANG HIM HIGH on a wooden steak as a sign of TOTAL HUMILATION...why so "afraid" to speak about hes enemies ETERNAL DESTRUCTION if thats whats REALLY going to happen anyway :dunno2:?
Was Jesus so scared of the "Mob" Do you think a MAN like Jesus was really afraid of...ANYTHING!?
I mean if someone is going to say it, should it not be HIM!?
(http://brokencameras.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/crucifixion-of-jesus-247x300.gif)
If not...who can you trust...a prophet...they speak against each other CONSTANTLY :sigh:
Quote from: JonesHenry on May 09, 2015, 06:54:09 PM
7th day adventist will argue that they are out there just being consumded like the word Basanizo does literally mean.
http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/greek/kjv/basanizo.html
Or purify. Much again depends on the INTERPRETATION
If memory serves, Ellen White, the SDA prophetess, began and ended her greatest book
The Great Controversy with the words "God is love," and spells out an explicit burned-to-ashes-and-gone end for the wicked. However, at places in her text, she describes the lost being sent to Hell. That's what happens when you crib from different sources. The SDA church thinks it has the Truth, but is as off base as any other denomination.
Not sure what all that denominational discussion has to do with much. Personally, I'm non-denominational so I just pass on that kind of debate.
In my view, it's the literal text of the bible that's the subject. Here is my blog post with helpful bible citations: http://www.logicalhierarchy.com/blog/preacher-man-hell-mistranslation/