I was having a discussion with someone on reddit. For those who don't know what Reddit is I will briefly explain. Reddit is like a forum where you can post dicussion on nearly any topic. There is a subreddit called DebateRegligion and the focus of the discussion was sexuality and the bible. I would like to centralized that discussion with this point. One member posted this verse
A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15 But women will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety. 1 Timothy 2: 11-15
I have read this verse many times before but I haven't not really read it in the situation that I was in. At first I could not make a retort because I can see the issue that the guy was saying which that men were superior to women. I think issue is really mistranslation. It has always been mistranslation from the belief of ET to gender inequality.
I did some research and I found out that Paul was saying these things because there were women who were being lead astray by false teachings like being aggressive and ruling others. Its no wonder people have issues with scripture because on the surface it seems like God hates women or something.
I honestly believe that God very important details just to prove this point:
"The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit."
He does not want us to understand scripture without the spirit mostly because if the Bible was super clear we would be prideful. Look how science has made man arrogant and prideful. The Jews were prideful for a period of time when only them knew truth of God.
I can see that mankind in general uses the carnal nature that is beastly hard and cruel to explain the gentle , kind , Loving Spirit and its nature that mixing is Babylon to me , that will have an end as God promised
We see in examples every day and though history , How this is true
:cloud9: According to scholars, Priscilla mentioned by Paul, was likely an elder in the church at the very least. I can't remember the man's name in there, but it was stated he had 4 daughters who were prophetesses, and if prophetesses, that means they spoke the oracles of God in the body. God doesn't have a problem with women speaking, He has a problem with souls speaking, instead of His Spirit speaking through them. When the Spirit is in control, order is automatic and no one has to bring "order" to the order. :winkgrin: When not, the flesh is running the show. My :2c: Blessings....
Psalms 68;11 the women declaring the goodnews is a large army.
the spirit of prophecy is the testimony of Jesus.........the church is symbolic of a woman..the bride of Christ.....the wedding feast
the true words of God.....how is that? Why would the church/bride be symbolized as a female if the females are not permitted
to speak??
women accompanied Him..and ministered unto them in Israel..were first to wittness His resurrection...stood by at His crucifixion...
anointed His head and feet. Honour YOUR MOTHER is one of the commandments...
Let us make man in 'OUR" image...male and female He made them..Adam=man...woman=taken from man..EVE=MOTHER
Mother's are their little childrens first teachers...
if Jesus is the Bridegroom[and He is] who is the bride?
....these are just some things you may reply to them..to make them think beyond the carnal fleshly mindest of male female
How would I respond to something like this?
QuoteEven you look at all the violence in the bible, all the revenge murder and slaughtering of children, how do you see it? I mean, you say you would follow Christs example. Before Christ was Moses and he commanded the revenge killing of women and children.
Jesus literally said in Matthew 19 that the commandments Moses wrote down are what you must uphold to access heaven.
How can Moses get it so wrong and Jesus get it right?
And...
QuoteWas Moses evil to tell his men to slaughter the midianite children and women?
I think the bible can be the word of God and still have things in it that are objectionable because the bible is also the story of humanity, and more specifically the story of the Israelites. Humanity does some awful things, and the bible is God dealing with man, meeting mankind at our level and not His.
And a few times Jesus said things like "it has been said....but I say to you..." For example divorce was allowed in the OT because mankind's hearts were hardened, but then Jesus goes on to say that not only is divorce not ok, even looking at a woman lustfully is considered the same as adultery.
In the OT the standard was "an eye for an eye" and then Jesus said "actually, I want you to turn the other cheek, and if someone asks for your cloak give it to them..."
I think God used the authors of the books, songs, letters, Etc. that we now call "the bible" and I think God spoke through these people, but in the end they are still people. And the bible needs to be interpreted, there are layers to it. There's the actual story and then there's the spiritual and metaphorical meaning.
I also heard it answered (to the specific question about killing women and children) that it would be less humane to leave them behind on earth, vulnerable and without any men (neighboring tribes would come and finish them off or they would die of starvation). If we understand everyone has to die sometime and our life here on earth is short and just the beginning of the story anyway. Not to condone that stuff, a lot of the OT violence to me is just the same as modern violence, I can't imagine God condones it other than possibly because He sees the big picture and for these things to occur there is a reason (a lesson to be learned, a greater evil avoided, etc)
Hope those thoughts help some what and hope it makes sense, I'm typing fast on my phone.
This helps a lot thank you so much so much for taking the time to answer.
Your welcome :)
:thumbsup:
God Is Love :HeartThrob:
Aerex , you have some great questions and some good thoughts ,,,
I have been thinking about it and asking God what He thinks about it all.
I know that may sound silly to some folks
But I do cherish , my personal relationship in the Lord Jesus Christ .. I really do . That connection means everything to me .
Lots of times the gentle knowing something comes first thing in the mornings before the feet hit the floor .
I cried some tears of awe , just knowing He knows when we are born and when we die and how we will die /end already ..and this is everyone and thing He ever created .. Its Huge ..
And none of us know that , being human is being fragile. the creature is subject to vanity / emptiness /loss and futility / death at any moment and surrounded by it here and now constantly .
frag·ile
ˈfrajəl,ˈfraˌjīl/Submit
adjective
(of an object) easily broken or damaged.
synonyms: breakable, easily broken; More
flimsy or insubstantial; easily destroyed.
"you have a fragile grip on reality"
synonyms: tenuous, shaky, insecure, unreliable, vulnerable, flimsy
"the fragile ceasefire"
(of a person) not strong or sturdy; delicate and vulnerable.
synonyms: weak, delicate, frail, debilitated; More
I thought of how weak our clay bodies are , yet our minds are ageless , when you get older you being to know that though all the experiences you get to go though ....
Being hurt , broken ashamed , angry , Loved , prideful, invincible , suffering etc , all these emotions get to course though you , called life and death .
But by faith in God we believe that because we die down here in some way , young or old or sickness , accidents , murdered etc ,,,
We don't really die we just change .
and really get to discover what we really are and have been all along , just didn't realize it at the time we had all those emotions coursing though us
Like not seeing the forest for the trees ..
I believe Gods Spirit teaches us that and makes us aware of there is so much more to Life and Love than just this present short condition . A true awakening ...
:HeartThrob:
Rose that was awesome! :peckblush:
And all so very very true!
I was reading Mark 13:13 today, the more literal version says "..and you shall be being hated by all because of the name of Me, yet he who endures to the consummation, he shall be being saved."
that made me think "the one believing is the one being saved" (rescued, redeemed) and how the sense of it has been translated and understood wrongly and how it's read in such a set and narrow view of "the one who endures to the end shall be saved."
It's a whole different way of saying it than what was put into expression originally.
But Universal Redemption (Repentance, Reconciliation) is so much more full than that.. It seems to me the holy spirit encourages/confirms U.R.. Jesus gave his followers and the world the love commandment but this morning i'm realizing he gave to his followers also another commandment.. to receive.. and how that's it! That's our whole duty and obligation.. to "receive".. How logical Yahweh is! and how generous.. "the one believing is the one being saved.."
:dsunny: :Peace2:
(P.S. - good morning!:)
Marie that was awesome !!!, Amen , :banana: It really is something to get excited about :iagree:
You are such an encourager , builder ,
Receive the Holy Spirit I am really beginning to think that Blast of Jesus Breath is a return , that if we do have the HOLY SPIRIT , JESUS DID COME TO US AND BLOWED HIS BREATH AND LIFE IN US as well and those whom have also give that same breathof Life to others etc .. !!!
John 22 ...21So Jesus said to them again, "Peace be with you; as the Father has sent Me, I also send you."
22And when He had said this, He breathed on them and said to them,
"Receive the Holy Spirit.
23"If you forgive the sins of any, their sins have been forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they have been retained."
As we receive we should also give That same reconciling breath of Life to others and give freely as it was given of God :HeartThrob:
Good morning and God bless in the Love of Christ , this connecting and gathering SPIRIT OF ONE , HOLY ONE at that :dsunny:
.."a return" - "I go to prepare a place for you, so that where I am you may be" - I go to be crucified, so that where I am you may be..
:thumbsup: :smile:
23"If you forgive the sins of any, their sins have been forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they have been retained."
So those who have received the Holy Spirit, who forgive others, are participating in Jesus's reconciling the world :)
Quote from: GodIsLove on December 24, 2015, 01:59:32 AM
23"If you forgive the sins of any, their sins have been forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they have been retained."
So those who have received the Holy Spirit, who forgive others, are participating in Jesus's reconciling the world :)
:thumbsup:
:HeartThrob: :dsunny: