I had read once that "hate" in the Hebrew sense does not mean hate in the modern sense. Here are some verses that are confusing to the idea of God loving all and the command for us to love others, including our enemies:
Luke 14:26
"If anyone comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple.
Malachi 1:2-3
"Was not Esau Jacob's brother?" declares the Lord. "Yet I have loved Jacob, 3but Esau I have hated, and I have turned his hill country into a wasteland and left his inheritance to the desert jackals."
Yet these verses contradict other bible verses:
Matthew 5:
You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? And if you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same?
1 John 4:10
In this is love, not that we have loved God but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
1 John 4:8
Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love.
Mark 12:31
The second is this: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no other commandment greater than these."
1 John 4:19
We love because he first loved us.
1 John 2:2
He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.
Romans 5:10
For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life.
John 13:34
A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another.
I found this article about hate in the Hebrew sense:
'Hate your parents', Matthew 10:37, Luke 14:26
Hate your father
"If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple." (Luke 14:26)
Talmudim, 'students' of Jewish rabbis were taught to place their affections for their teachers higher than that for their fathers, for:
"his teacher has priority, for his father brought him into this world, but his teacher, who has taught him wisdom, brings him into the world to come".
But 'hatred'? Surely that is taking loyalty to your teacher too far - even if your teacher is God in human form. For another commandment is that of honouring ones parents - which itself cannot be contradicted. Indeed, this verse in Luke has caused much anguish and pain between zealous Christian sons or daughters and their parents, who believing they were expressing their devotion to Jesus, had no regard or worse still, hatred, for their parents.
But what we have here is another Hebrew problem. Biblical Hebrew lacks the necessary language to exactly define the comparative sense, i.e., 'more than' or 'less than'. Instead it tends to express two things which may be comparatively of different degree like 'first' and 'second' as extremes such as 'first' and 'last'. In this way love and hate whilst appearing as opposites may in fact be related but lesser terms such as 'love more' and 'love less'.
"If a man have two wives, one beloved, and another hated, and they have born him children, both the beloved and the hated; and if the firstborn son be hers that was hated: Then it shall be, when he maketh his sons to inherit that which he hath, that he may not make the son of the beloved firstborn before the son of the hated, which is indeed the firstborn: But he shall acknowledge the son of the hated for the firstborn, by giving him a double portion of all that he hath: for he is the beginning of his strength; the right of the firstborn is his." (Deuteronomy 21:15-17)
A Jewish man was not allowed to abandon a 'hated' wife's son's rights of inheritance. But more than this, the Deuteronomy passage describes favouritism between two wives, not absolute love and hatred, for the man bears children by both. Hence, different Bible versions struggle with the phrase "hated" and some adopt "unloved" or "disliked", as softer phrases. However, the Hebrew word used in the second phrase is cowdh - view larger image sânê' (Strong's #8130) which in its more than 140 uses is always translated by 'hate' or by words indicating 'foe' or 'enemy'. Literal versions cannot soften the apparent invective, only an idiomatic understanding or paraphrase can explain the metaphor.
The Hebrew sânê' is the opposite of love which could mean 'non-election'. This contrast is the same in Genesis 29:31 between Leah ('hated' senû'âh from sânê') and Rachel, who in the previous verse is described as "loved more than Leah", a contrast of degree not of absolute love and hate. Compare also the passages in Deuteronomy 21:15-17 above; 1 Samuel 1:5; Proverbs 30:23; 2 Samuel 19:6; and even Exodus 20:3 which speaks of preferring others gods as equivalent to hating God (cf. Matthew 6:24 on serving God and mammon, loving one and hating the other).
The Jewish midrash on Exodus describes God as hating the angels, and not just the fallen ones. It does not mean he dislikes Michael and Gabriel! It means that he chooses to give man the Torah, rather than the angels:
"By three names is this mount known: The mountain of God, Mount Horeb and Mount Sinai. . . . Why The mountain of God? (Exodus 18:5). Because it was there that God manifested His Godhead. And Sinai? Because [it was on that mount] that God showed that He hates the angels and loves mankind." (Exodus Rabbah 51.8, Soncino edition)
There is actually a Hebrew wordplay here, for Sinai sounds like the Hebrew for hate, although it begins with a different Hebrew letter and may mean 'thorny'. Similarly, Malachi speaks of God's preference for Jacob over Esau:
"... yet I loved Jacob, and I hated Esau..." (Malachi 1:2-3)
But Esau, like Ishmael instead of Isaac, was not hated absolutely, only "rejected" as the Aramaic targum (paraphrase) prefers to render it. In Aramaic sanah can mean 'to hate' and 'to separate', so the gospels could be saying separate yourselves from your parents if you want to follow me. This is a possible interpretation, but still against Jewish and biblical culture which is very supportive of family. Apart from Jesus' 'separating' and staying behind in the temple when he was younger he was a very dutiful son.
Matthew, in fact, gives the game away and here a synopsis of the gospels and a little Hebrew understanding could have answered our question from the first, for he translates as "love less" rather than "hate":
"He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me." (Matthew 10:37)
Whilst Jesus does predict division as a result of following him he does not proscribe hatred for elsewhere he upholds the precept, "honour your father and your mother" (Matthew 15:4-6, 19:17-19; Mark 7:10-13).
Jesus expressed degrees in his love. He chose 12 disciples but 3 especially he spent time with and one of these, John, is called the one that Jesus loved (John 13:23; 20:2; 21:7,20). Jesus also had a special place in his heart for Martha, Lazarus and family (John 11:5).
Even if one were to take this 'hating' verse literally, a semantic twist would have you back where you started. For, Jesus tells us that our enemies will be the members of our own family, yet we are also taught, "love your enemies"! (Matthew 5:44; Luke 6:27,35)
http://www.biblicalhebrew.com/nt/lovehate.htm
Quote from: GodIsLove on March 19, 2018, 12:35:59 AM
Matthew, in fact, gives the game away and here a synopsis of the gospels and a little Hebrew understanding could have answered our question from the first, for he translates as "love less" rather than "hate":
"He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me." (Matthew 10:37)
Good summary!!!
I.M.O the flesh attempts love- the spirit is love.
I still love my wife and continue to grow in that love- HOWEVER the love of God surpasses that love, ergo the love in spirit exceeds the love in flesh.
This would be why 1 John 3;14 makes that observation;
" We KNOW that we have passed from death to life
because we love the brethren."
After all, "PERFECT love casts out ALL fear." :HeartThrob: :dsunny:
Hate = love less
Luke 14:26 If anyone is coming to Me and is not hating his father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, and still more his soul besides, he can not be My disciple."
Gen 29:30 And he went in also to Rachel, and he loved also Rachel more than Leah, and served with him yet seven other years.
Gen 29:31 And when the LORD saw that Leah was hated, he opened her womb: but Rachel was barren.
http://radical-reaction.com/MyChristianSites/BitsAndPieces/idioms.html
I sure appreciate your posts God is love !!
I love being reminded of what we are to be seeking , Gods kingdom first and everything else is added unto you .
these kinds of studies are crucial to spiritual growth in my opinion and help us all .
Blessings always in the Lord ...
I thought of the types of love that are the lesser loves but the Agapo is the greatest LOVE we are to experience in God .
Hate is a strong word .. I found the Lord when HE really is displeased uses the word ''abomination '' .. that seems to be the main problems of idolatry From a (presumed) derivative of bdeo (to stink) detestable stench , what is highly esteemed among men is an abomination is Gods sight . Luke 16:13-18
I found this to explain better than I could ...
The Greeks had four words to describe what we call love, Eros, (romantic love), Phileo, (enjoyment, fondness, friendship), Storge (family loyalty) and Agape (unconditional love with stick-ability). I like to think of them broadly as;
Eros-A love felt particularly within the body (trembling excitement, elation, joy), coloured and underpinned by deep and beautiful procreative urges. C.S. Lewis distinguishes Eros from natural sexual urges and lusts, because Eros is a state of the heart and while it is intimately related to sex, sex can exist, and often does exist, without Eros enlivening it. It leads to children, family, joy and laughter. It is good and right, but it is usually not enough to sustain a relationship long term. Eros is an exulted and beautifully idealistic love, usually between a man and woman, but can also be "platonic" and extend to deeply intimate friendships. Socrates defined Eros as also working with the soul to recall knowledge of beauty, and in that capacity contributes to an understanding of spiritual truth; While Eros can simply be an earthy thing, when Spirit infused and elevated to it's true position, it speaks deeply of universal mysteries, and is usually most keenly expressed within the most sacred of all relationships, that between husband and wife. Eros suggests that even sensually-based love aspires to the non-corporeal, spiritual plane of existence; that is, finding its truth, just like finding any truth, leads to transcendence. The elevated buzz of Erotic love is said to naturally fade within a year of its beginning. Perhaps it is too exhausting and all consuming?
Phileo- If Eros is the love of the body, Phileo is the love of the soul. It is easy love and affection, it is bent towards our natural tastes and preferences. It embodies culture and beliefs. It's about the friendship you feel towards people like you, with the same interests, social graces, and style. In the scriptures, this kind of friendship love is used to describe many relationships. God is said to have this kind of love for us and Jesus. Jesus felt this kind of love for his disciples, parents felt it about their children and children to their parents. It is not then a shallow love, but rich in emotion and feeling, like when your heart beams towards your child when they do something wonderful. However it is also described as a negative shallow love, natural and exclusive and conditional. Phileo is soul love, and it's strength and value will depend on the elevation of the soul of the bearer.
Agape-Is more of a parental, mature, sacrificial kind of love. The Thayer Lexicon describes agape beautifully when it says "to take pleasure in the thing, prize it above all other things, be unwilling to abandon it or do without it." In a way it is as idealistic as Eros, in that it is a crazy love that will not let go. Agape loves, usually at cost to the bearer. Agape puts the beloved first and sacrifices pride, self interest and possessions for the sake of that beloved. This is the love that God has for us which inspired him to sacrifice His son and for His son to obey and sacrifice himself. It is the kind of love we are commanded to have for one another. It is a love of supreme greatness.
Storge-This is the love of community and family. Often dutiful, sometimes unfeeling, but very strong none the less. It is a natural, carnal love, but powerful enough to be a real hindrance to spiritual growth, especially when family and culture are holding you down. It is a love that may pull you towards a lesser path.
Obviously, all of these loves work together, but only Agape is free from the error of our humanity. Agape is the glue that holds the other loves fast and gives us the wisdom and patience when the other loves fail. If we make it our goal to always be forgiving and merciful and believe in doing good to all men, and then do it, the other loves will stand, and your life will be full of the rich blessings of Phileo friendships and intimates of the sweetest and loveliest kind. You will stand up in the midst of your family and people and call them back to walk on pleasanter paths and on smoother highways. So, seek first the high love Agape; that sacrifices, forgives and believes; the love of Christ, freely given to those who ask and receive. Drink deeply of Christs love for you, for the fathers love for you, of this eternal and perfect love and all these other loves will be added unto you.
Great study GodIsLove! Sure makes a lot more sense than "hate" as we today think of it (instead of the original, greek - love less).
Amen! Why would He say love our 'enemies' and hate our parents! Totally makes no sense or logic..
But rather, we're to have the Lord, as our highest priority!
Quote from: GodIsLove on March 19, 2018, 12:35:59 AM
Even if one were to take this 'hating' verse literally, a semantic twist would have you back where you started. For, Jesus tells us that our enemies will be the members of our own family, yet we are also taught, "love your enemies"! (Matthew 5:44; Luke 6:27,35)
Quote from: rosered on March 19, 2018, 10:50:51 AM
Agape-Is more of a parental, mature, sacrificial kind of love. The Thayer Lexicon describes agape beautifully when it says "to take pleasure in the thing, prize it above all other things, be unwilling to abandon it or do without it." In a way it is as idealistic as Eros, in that it is a crazy love that will not let go. Agape loves, usually at cost to the bearer. Agape puts the beloved first and sacrifices pride, self interest and possessions for the sake of that beloved.
This is the love that God has for us which inspired him to sacrifice His son and for His son to obey and sacrifice himself.
It is the kind of love we are commanded to have for one another.
It is a love of supreme greatness.
Actually looking at the correct definition, which this is, makes the hellfire teaching ridiculous.
To love anything that thing needs to be specifically valued as precious currently makes us willing to go to great lengths to be with that thing as much as possible. Some people do that with their love for sport, art, work, comfort, food, drinks, clothes......
Christ demonstrated that the things are not the key- rather the people; us.
Paul points out about the things seen as temporary, so focus on the things to come. True expectation/hope.
Hence love the spiritual, through Christ, beyond everything- so the agape for the supreme spirit, God, beyond everything else.
We have the security of that position thanks to Jesus, so secure that we can come as children with boldness to a loving Father.
Amen!! :cloud9: